Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I get that you're trying to make a banned list that works better for CEDH. Reign in fast mana and tutors, games are still probably a race to combo but you can't combo so quickly that your opponents have no chance to stop it.
Tabernacle is legal for use as a four-of in legacy yet it sees almost no play. The only deck you can expect it to be played in is lands and only as a single copy. If you ever get the rare treat play against Dutch Stax, they will play Tabernacle as a 4-of, but that deck is built and played to be the undisputed most expensive legacy deck, even when it is not a very competitive deck.
I just don't get it, how can a inconvenience to creature decks be bannable in CEDH where you're aiming to win via combo?
That's actually an excellent point. One part of a banlist is allowing diversity between archetypes, and when I was constructing this I was thinking from a 20 or 30 life standpoint, taking queues from 1v1 and Legacy to help find a good balance. Admittedly, I didn't test the card and considered it to counteract certain aggro and token strategies but I think that you're right, it's not unreasonable and one should expect to have answers to creature hosers if they're playing a creature deck. It would help to rein in Animar as well. Consider it removed for now, but I'll be testing it. Innocent until proven guilty
I wanted to clarify that in Competitive Commander, you aren't usually trying to be the first person to combo like with the current banlist. The decks I found to work the best were Damia and Jeleva, in-it-for-the-long-haul midrange type decks. Sometimes they won with Forbid-lock and hitting with Damia for example. I'd call those control. As for combo, I tried an Ad Naus build that kind of worked, but not as well. Animar still worked good for combo. Grixis storm took a big hit.
Those bannings and unbannings just look like they focus on allowing the banned cards that ruin games to do so with less consistency or later in the game. There's really no point where resolving an Emrakul or flipping an Erayo doesn't make the game suck.
Uh... exactly? The point of all banlists is to reign in speed and consistency so that each card is answerable at an appropriate point in the game. If I let someone get to 15 mana for an Emrakul, that's on me (and the other 2+ players). Sidenote, I've flipped Erayo quite a lot of times before the ban on turn 3, and it was always destroyed before getting back to my turn.
You know, I hadn't actually practiced what I preached in terms of taking fast mana/cheap tutors out of decks because I needed them in order to keep up. But in the past 2 months of working on that Competitive Banlist, I was blown away. Not only is it a lot more balanced in the competitive setting, but it's actually way better for casual games too. All of the best decks were the kind of long, grindy, mid-range decks that the RC encourages. I am just awestruck at how much better and more enjoyable my games were. I was even able to take my very best deck to a casual table and still let them have a good time despite them losing, because the game went long and everyone felt involved. I simply cannot stress how positive and healthy this change would be for the format.
I think I'm allowed one "quote for truth" with no particular content I hope.
Our group was seriously revitalized by stopping using Sol Ring (and no one uses the other stuff really), so I can only imagine how much a more competitive group could get out of getting rid of the big four (monolith, vault, crypt, ring). The tutors are the next step, but thankfully our group doesn't jam all of them (usually it's just vamp+demonic in a black deck, at worst). Adding seal, grim, and all the fringe blue tutors, egh. ugly stuff.
Now to address the first thing you said: the RC claims they look at all of the cards each time to see if they can come off... but that had never happened until many people here, myself included, started making a fuss about Kokusho and then it came off. Then last year I made a big hullaballoo about Metalworker, no one agreed with me but Cryo liked my suggestion of putting it up to vote and went to work making that happen which was really great. Lo and behold, Metalworker had a low turn-out and got unbanned and suddenly everyone was like "yeah, I never thought it was that broken." I just have a feeling the next vote will roll around, Gifts will have a low turn-out, it'll get unbanned and then everyone will suddenly pretend like they were always on my side again lol.
That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.
That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.
Obviously Phil bribed us.
If I may ask about the inner machinations of your meetings, how long do they generally last? You guys still each name one card you'd like to see added/removed from the list, right? Do you then spend a little time discussing each of those cards? Do you take some time to talk about the cards on your 'totally not a watch list' watch list? Are your meetings somewhat formal? Does someone take minutes (no I'm not secretly asking to divulge them if you do)?
Meetings tend to last around 2 hours, they've gone as many as 4 (assuming you don't count the time that we once talked about stuff nearly the whole time while Scott and Toby were visiting). There are indeed records of the meetings, which are recorded by the forum in which we have them. They're extremely informal. The order in which we talk about stuff goes according to mood or if someone feels strongly about a particular topic--or it has bearing on another topic. "We can't talk about that until we talk about this" has happened. If there are rules/topics to talk about, we generally discuss them before individual cards. When it comes to potential bannings, someone (generally me, but not always) opens up with something like "Okay, what cards do we want to talk about?" Sometimes that leads to a bunch of discussion, sometimes it leads to no one having any cards of concern. When it leads to discussion, someone will at some point call for the vote (which I described in a SCG article a while back). There is no time set aside to discuss a watch list, since it doesn't exist. The unbanning exercise usually happens later in the meeting.
The lack of formality works because we know each other so well, have been doing this together for quite some time (in the case of me and Gavin, nearly a decade), and most importantly, have a great deal of trust in each other. No one games the votes; I trust that what everyone says or votes regarding a card is their honest opinion. No one comes to the meeting hoping to forward a personal agenda over the group's goals. I imagine that's quite a rare thing.
Meetings tend to last around 2 hours, they've gone as many as 4 (assuming you don't count the time that we once talked about stuff nearly the whole time while Scott and Toby were visiting). There are indeed records of the meetings, which are recorded by the forum in which we have them. They're extremely informal. The order in which we talk about stuff goes according to mood or if someone feels strongly about a particular topic--or it has bearing on another topic. "We can't talk about that until we talk about this" has happened. If there are rules/topics to talk about, we generally discuss them before individual cards. When it comes to potential bannings, someone (generally me, but not always) opens up with something like "Okay, what cards do we want to talk about?" Sometimes that leads to a bunch of discussion, sometimes it leads to no one having any cards of concern. When it leads to discussion, someone will at some point call for the vote (which I described in a SCG article a while back). There is no time set aside to discuss a watch list, since it doesn't exist. The unbanning exercise usually happens later in the meeting.
The lack of formality works because we know each other so well, have been doing this together for quite some time (in the case of me and Gavin, nearly a decade), and most importantly, have a great deal of trust in each other. No one games the votes; I trust that what everyone says or votes regarding a card is their honest opinion. No one comes to the meeting hoping to forward a personal agenda over the group's goals. I imagine that's quite a rare thing.
Oh so the meetings are online like AIM or an actual forum thread (like a hidden mod forum on the official site)? I figured you guys would set aside an evening or weekend day to Skype for a few hours, or something similar. I thought I recalled you previously mentioning Toby or Gavin present for one of them.
That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.
I was more illustrating confirmation bias among the community than trying to correlate our polls to your ban decisions. Last time I checked, all of you were intelligent sound-minded people who make your decisions based on your own opinions and goals for the format
Also, thank you for clarifying on your reevaluation of cards each meeting. I misunderstood, my apologies.
That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.
I was more illustrating confirmation bias among the community than trying to correlate our polls to your ban decisions. Last time I checked, all of you were intelligent sound-minded people who make your decisions based on your own opinions and goals for the format
Also, thank you for clarifying on your reevaluation of cards each meeting. I misunderstood, my apologies.
Yeah, discussing each of them every time would be--tedious. We thoroughly enjoy the thought exercise of doing at least one, though.
Never is a long time. Biorhythm, Karakas, and Worldfire come off the top of my head. But never is a long time.
I know never is a long time. I more meant a list of cards the rules committee can't foresee itself ever thinking they'd be a good idea to unban. Thanks for the response.
Braids wouldn't be that bad if all the really broken stuff (Ring, Crypt, Vault) were to be banned. See: Duel Commander.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Braids wouldn't be that bad if all the really broken stuff (Ring, Crypt, Vault) were to be banned. See: Duel Commander.
There's still a decent handful of ways to land her on turn two, which is just way too painful.
And there are many more ways to completely ruin a game on turn 2. Griefers gonna grief, but Braids isn't problematic when used responsibly. I think Braids would probably be spot ~100 for me.
I can't really picture it. I guess if it was turn 4, and this person hasn't played anything besides 4 lands drops and Metalworker, and no one has killed it or wrathed, and the person has Lightning Greaves, and the other 3 cards in his or her hand are artifacts, and no one has creature or artifact removal, then that's a strong play and someone was just wiped from the game essentially, but chances are it'll get answered that round and they'll rebuild since it's only been 3-4 turns.
busted mana rocks bro.
But I agree with you, it's probably fine to be off the banlist, I just think it exemplifies why the 4 fast mana cards need to go:P
The improvement in game quality in my group since we banned Sol Ring is nearly impossible to put into words.
You know, I hadn't actually practiced what I preached in terms of taking fast mana/cheap tutors out of decks because I needed them in order to keep up. But in the past 2 months of working on that Competitive Banlist, I was blown away. Not only is it a lot more balanced in the competitive setting, but it's actually way better for casual games too. All of the best decks were the kind of long, grindy, mid-range decks that the RC encourages. I am just awestruck at how much better and more enjoyable my games were. I was even able to take my very best deck to a casual table and still let them have a good time despite them losing, because the game went long and everyone felt involved. I simply cannot stress how positive and healthy this change would be for the format.
+1
Our group ran a MODO mini-league about 2 yrs ago with Legacy rules, which held no fast mana among other things, and the comments from the EDH regulars were the same. In that league there were also those coming to play with friends just for purposes of that league, and a couple of those went on to play more EDH and decided to give it up because they didn't like fast mana and fast tutors. Then there wasn't enough interest in a league after that.
Braids wouldn't be that bad if all the really broken stuff (Ring, Crypt, Vault) were to be banned. See: Duel Commander.
There's still a decent handful of ways to land her on turn two, which is just way too painful.
I've been killed on turn 3 several times before, it happens. If someone powers out a T2 Braids + Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast/Bitterblossom then congratulations. Nobody has a Path/Swords/Bolt? Oh well, let's shuffle up and go for the next round. Fact is that when those stupid mana rocks are gone, that scenario will be rather rare and would be reliant on stuff like Dark Ritual to power her out early. Not a great prospect for the Braids player to focus his entire deck on.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I've been killed on turn 3 several times before, it happens. If someone powers out a T2 Braids + Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast/Bitterblossom then congratulations. Nobody has a Path/Swords/Bolt? Oh well, let's shuffle up and go for the next round. Fact is that when those stupid mana rocks are gone, that scenario will be rather rare and would be reliant on stuff like Dark Ritual to power her out early. Not a great prospect for the Braids player to focus his entire deck on.
Mostly, Braids just plain isn't fun. If you're the guy who's ahead by a dozen lands and has a fat stack of tokens to sac, she doesn't affect you in the slightest. If you're the guy who's struggling to play catch up, you get screwed, and immediately. The fact that she can exist in the command zone means that someone is going to put her there and find a way to make her as broken as possible from it. And I have no desire to EVER play against that deck. Sure, sometimes it will do nothing, but sometimes it will go Chrome Mox, Bitterblossom into Dark Rit Braids and that's game over. Even without the "broken three", there are still plenty of ways to get to four mana on turn two.
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I've been killed on turn 3 several times before, it happens. If someone powers out a T2 Braids + Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast/Bitterblossom then congratulations. Nobody has a Path/Swords/Bolt? Oh well, let's shuffle up and go for the next round. Fact is that when those stupid mana rocks are gone, that scenario will be rather rare and would be reliant on stuff like Dark Ritual to power her out early. Not a great prospect for the Braids player to focus his entire deck on.
Mostly, Braids just plain isn't fun. If you're the guy who's ahead by a dozen lands and has a fat stack of tokens to sac, she doesn't affect you in the slightest. If you're the guy who's struggling to play catch up, you get screwed, and immediately. The fact that she can exist in the command zone means that someone is going to put her there and find a way to make her as broken as possible from it. And I have no desire to EVER play against that deck. Sure, sometimes it will do nothing, but sometimes it will go Chrome Mox, Bitterblossom into Dark Rit Braids and that's game over. Even without the "broken three", there are still plenty of ways to get to four mana on turn two.
Yeah but who does this? Are they trying to win a tournament? Then someone probably has an answer to it. Otherwise that person is just a jerk that's ruining a casual game. I think an understanding of power level and a discussion with the group is definitely sufficient in the case of Braids.
DOesn't this banlist just turn into "Kami of the Crescent Moon - Polymorph into Emrakul" or some other way of just playing Emrakul asap? With Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors etc. still around this is feasible around turn four or so.
How degenerate are the decks under your ruleset?
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Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
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I've been killed on turn 3 several times before, it happens. If someone powers out a T2 Braids + Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast/Bitterblossom then congratulations. Nobody has a Path/Swords/Bolt? Oh well, let's shuffle up and go for the next round. Fact is that when those stupid mana rocks are gone, that scenario will be rather rare and would be reliant on stuff like Dark Ritual to power her out early. Not a great prospect for the Braids player to focus his entire deck on.
Mostly, Braids just plain isn't fun. If you're the guy who's ahead by a dozen lands and has a fat stack of tokens to sac, she doesn't affect you in the slightest. If you're the guy who's struggling to play catch up, you get screwed, and immediately. The fact that she can exist in the command zone means that someone is going to put her there and find a way to make her as broken as possible from it. And I have no desire to EVER play against that deck. Sure, sometimes it will do nothing, but sometimes it will go Chrome Mox, Bitterblossom into Dark Rit Braids and that's game over. Even without the "broken three", there are still plenty of ways to get to four mana on turn two.
Funny thing that, you described a perfect way in which a commander like, say, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV can also ruin a game. You have a glut of mana and others don't? Yeah, you don't mind the GAAIV.
I'm not arguing that Braids is "unfun" to play against (I respectfully disagree, mind), I'm saying she's not nearly as broken as one is made to think. If you're the kind of player to Chrome Mox Dark Ritual into BlossomBraids, you might be in a meta where that Dark Ritual gets FoW'd or Mental Misstep'd. Without the broken set of mana rocks, odds are you're still hinging on that Dark Ritual to get Braids AND the required repeatable fodder out early on. Meaning you're banking on a very frail kind of gameplan right there.
Also, if you are trying to catch up to the guy with a fat stack of tokens and lands, odds are you've pretty much lost already anyway, Braids or not. Besides, in such an occasion the Braids player might be better off playing something like Toxic Deluge to even out the field. Braids is better at keeping a balance among her opponents as many others are.
Under the current circumstances, Braids should probably not be unbanned as it's probably too easy to power her out turn 2. Should the broken rocks ever get the hammer, Braids is very much a good option to unban, as far as I'm concerned and French EDH proves.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
DOesn't this banlist just turn into "Kami of the Crescent Moon - Polymorph into Emrakul" or some other way of just playing Emrakul asap? With Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors etc. still around this is feasible around turn four or so.
How degenerate are the decks under your ruleset?
That seems alright. You don't get the cast trigger, so any opponent can just wrath. That being said, Sneak and Show is a good deck in Legacy for a reason, so it's not a bad way to go, though I'd argue Jhoira can already do this and follow it up with an Obliterate. That's much easier and consistent to do. Jhoira and Animar performed the best for me as fast decks. Late-game decks were a lot more viable though, for example Damia with Forbid lock was a great one. Try it out for yourself and see if you enjoy it, or if you can break it.
DOesn't this banlist just turn into "Kami of the Crescent Moon - Polymorph into Emrakul" or some other way of just playing Emrakul asap? With Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors etc. still around this is feasible around turn four or so.
How degenerate are the decks under your ruleset?
Sneak Attack is already legal, as is a bunch of small tutor and reanimate stuff. You can use that to Jin-Jin, Annihilator, or whatever suits your fancy. In that scenario, it's Polymorph being abused, not Emrakul, and nothing is stopping the same abuse fetching something like Ulamog, as of now.
Of the unbanned cards on that list, I'd expect the most abusable would be Panoptic Mirror and Biorhythm. Even those, an 8 mana Sorcery that ends the game and a 4 mana card forming a two-card infinite turn combo are two things that can already be found in the EDH card pool right now.
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At which point I ask you; which is the broken part here?
I wanted to clarify that in Competitive Commander, you aren't usually trying to be the first person to combo like with the current banlist. The decks I found to work the best were Damia and Jeleva, in-it-for-the-long-haul midrange type decks. Sometimes they won with Forbid-lock and hitting with Damia for example. I'd call those control. As for combo, I tried an Ad Naus build that kind of worked, but not as well. Animar still worked good for combo. Grixis storm took a big hit.
Uh... exactly? The point of all banlists is to reign in speed and consistency so that each card is answerable at an appropriate point in the game. If I let someone get to 15 mana for an Emrakul, that's on me (and the other 2+ players). Sidenote, I've flipped Erayo quite a lot of times before the ban on turn 3, and it was always destroyed before getting back to my turn.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I think I'm allowed one "quote for truth" with no particular content
Our group was seriously revitalized by stopping using Sol Ring (and no one uses the other stuff really), so I can only imagine how much a more competitive group could get out of getting rid of the big four (monolith, vault, crypt, ring). The tutors are the next step, but thankfully our group doesn't jam all of them (usually it's just vamp+demonic in a black deck, at worst). Adding seal, grim, and all the fringe blue tutors, egh. ugly stuff.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
That's not quite right. We've never claimed that we look at all of the cards each time. Although sometimes we do it with more than one, each time we meet, we look at a SINGLE card and do the mental exercise of considering unbanning it (which doesn't count the running joke of Scott and me repeating "Recurring Nightmare???"). Yes, community voices can be a catalyst to us thinking about an things, although I'll caution you in thinking that the opinion of a vocal minority is the tipping point. If the next poll comes up and 100% of respondents say Balance should be unbanned, that thing is still staying on the list. We would definitely talk about it. Our discussion wouldn't be about the card, it would be wondering how everyone lost their mind at the same time.
Obviously Phil bribed us.
If I may ask about the inner machinations of your meetings, how long do they generally last? You guys still each name one card you'd like to see added/removed from the list, right? Do you then spend a little time discussing each of those cards? Do you take some time to talk about the cards on your 'totally not a watch list' watch list? Are your meetings somewhat formal? Does someone take minutes (no I'm not secretly asking to divulge them if you do)?
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The lack of formality works because we know each other so well, have been doing this together for quite some time (in the case of me and Gavin, nearly a decade), and most importantly, have a great deal of trust in each other. No one games the votes; I trust that what everyone says or votes regarding a card is their honest opinion. No one comes to the meeting hoping to forward a personal agenda over the group's goals. I imagine that's quite a rare thing.
Oh so the meetings are online like AIM or an actual forum thread (like a hidden mod forum on the official site)? I figured you guys would set aside an evening or weekend day to Skype for a few hours, or something similar. I thought I recalled you previously mentioning Toby or Gavin present for one of them.
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Also, thank you for clarifying on your reevaluation of cards each meeting. I misunderstood, my apologies.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
Yeah, discussing each of them every time would be--tedious. We thoroughly enjoy the thought exercise of doing at least one, though.
I know never is a long time. I more meant a list of cards the rules committee can't foresee itself ever thinking they'd be a good idea to unban. Thanks for the response.
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StaffI've maintained for years that this and Karakas are the two cards that can never, ever come off the list.
#3 is probably Time Vault, and #4 is Braids (as a general, but without that existing, blanket banned)
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StaffThere's still a decent handful of ways to land her on turn two, which is just way too painful.
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cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
+1
Our group ran a MODO mini-league about 2 yrs ago with Legacy rules, which held no fast mana among other things, and the comments from the EDH regulars were the same. In that league there were also those coming to play with friends just for purposes of that league, and a couple of those went on to play more EDH and decided to give it up because they didn't like fast mana and fast tutors. Then there wasn't enough interest in a league after that.
One of those things that I'll never understand.
I've been killed on turn 3 several times before, it happens. If someone powers out a T2 Braids + Reassembling Skeleton/Bloodghast/Bitterblossom then congratulations. Nobody has a Path/Swords/Bolt? Oh well, let's shuffle up and go for the next round. Fact is that when those stupid mana rocks are gone, that scenario will be rather rare and would be reliant on stuff like Dark Ritual to power her out early. Not a great prospect for the Braids player to focus his entire deck on.
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StaffMostly, Braids just plain isn't fun. If you're the guy who's ahead by a dozen lands and has a fat stack of tokens to sac, she doesn't affect you in the slightest. If you're the guy who's struggling to play catch up, you get screwed, and immediately. The fact that she can exist in the command zone means that someone is going to put her there and find a way to make her as broken as possible from it. And I have no desire to EVER play against that deck. Sure, sometimes it will do nothing, but sometimes it will go Chrome Mox, Bitterblossom into Dark Rit Braids and that's game over. Even without the "broken three", there are still plenty of ways to get to four mana on turn two.
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cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
DOesn't this banlist just turn into "Kami of the Crescent Moon - Polymorph into Emrakul" or some other way of just playing Emrakul asap? With Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors etc. still around this is feasible around turn four or so.
How degenerate are the decks under your ruleset?
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Funny thing that, you described a perfect way in which a commander like, say, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV can also ruin a game. You have a glut of mana and others don't? Yeah, you don't mind the GAAIV.
I'm not arguing that Braids is "unfun" to play against (I respectfully disagree, mind), I'm saying she's not nearly as broken as one is made to think. If you're the kind of player to Chrome Mox Dark Ritual into BlossomBraids, you might be in a meta where that Dark Ritual gets FoW'd or Mental Misstep'd. Without the broken set of mana rocks, odds are you're still hinging on that Dark Ritual to get Braids AND the required repeatable fodder out early on. Meaning you're banking on a very frail kind of gameplan right there.
Also, if you are trying to catch up to the guy with a fat stack of tokens and lands, odds are you've pretty much lost already anyway, Braids or not. Besides, in such an occasion the Braids player might be better off playing something like Toxic Deluge to even out the field. Braids is better at keeping a balance among her opponents as many others are.
Under the current circumstances, Braids should probably not be unbanned as it's probably too easy to power her out turn 2. Should the broken rocks ever get the hammer, Braids is very much a good option to unban, as far as I'm concerned and French EDH proves.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
Sneak Attack is already legal, as is a bunch of small tutor and reanimate stuff. You can use that to Jin-Jin, Annihilator, or whatever suits your fancy. In that scenario, it's Polymorph being abused, not Emrakul, and nothing is stopping the same abuse fetching something like Ulamog, as of now.
Of the unbanned cards on that list, I'd expect the most abusable would be Panoptic Mirror and Biorhythm. Even those, an 8 mana Sorcery that ends the game and a 4 mana card forming a two-card infinite turn combo are two things that can already be found in the EDH card pool right now.