Just for the record, I agree. But if you've been paying closely to everything they've said lately, you'll see that it's actually starting to look entirely plausible. (someexampleshere).
I don't see how those first two "examples" can be taken as the RC having her on their Watch List (beyond the normal 'every card that gets mentioned is on our watch list'. I guess that third one maybe, but I've already stated that I won't allow the RC to ban her.
Re: likely General bans
Oloro - I don't get the commotion this guy causes. Big deal, your general is an emblem that reads "gain two life at the beginning of your upkeep". Big deal.
Prossh - I think people forgot to be angry at him when Narset came out.
Purphoros - a very boring and linear deck. We have a guy in my group who runs him since forever among a couple other decks, and after he killed us T6 yet again I asked him when he would finally retire the deck, and he admitted he was getting bored of it too.
Narset - I still feel like she is a serious contender for banning. The only decks I've seen with her have been intentionally nerfed, and if the only way you can build a nonbroken deck around a card is to build it badly, that should be a red flag.
I know this isn't the place for Dual Commander bans, but Oloro needs to go in 1v1. He creates what is possibly the only 1 card combo in Magic history in the colors with the best tutors for it (Zur's Weirding). The fact that he doesn't need to even come out of the Command Zone to go infinite is terrifying.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I know this isn't the place for Dual Commander bans, but Oloro needs to go in 1v1. He creates what is possibly the only 1 card combo in Magic history in the colors with the best tutors for it (Zur's Weirding). The fact that he doesn't need to even come out of the Command Zone to go infinite is terrifying.
This thread on the official forums has been generating some interesting discussion. Basically it's about if EDH no longer needs the perceived barrier to entry criteria.
One of the points is that the actual barrier to entry into the format is the lowest it could probably ever be, with there being 5 precon deck released per year at less then $40. These decks are also well put together containing many staple cards. Sitting down with a fresh out of the box precon is likely going to be of a respectable power level for many EDH groups, as opposed to sitting down to a game of standard with an event deck where you are going to be blown out game after game.
Obviously if there is an argument to get rid of the PBtE philosophy it means that the cards banned for that reason would have to reexamined. I'm not sure if any of the power 8 or LoA would be just perfect for the format if not for their monetary cost. Legal moxen push people to 5 color builds. Black Lotus is the poster child for to much mana to quickly.
One way to further ease the PBtE of EDH is to copy what the find folk who run regular highlander did for their format.
To ease the accessibility, cards from the following editions are permitted, if the edition cannot be determined from the back of the card:
Alpha Edition
International Edition
Collector's Edition
Championship decks
I'm actually someone who is opposed to my opponents playing with gold border cards in my EDH games, but that is because I feel they violate the "Commander is played with vintage legal cards" rule. An official statement that they were permitted (or not permitted) could remove all of the gray area around gold border cards. IE and CE have power, original duals, and other expensive cards like Forcefield and Berserk. The championship decks have Force of Will, Wasteland, Vampiric Tutor, Metalworker, fetchlands, Survival of the Fittest, Gaea's Cradle, Academy Rector, and Entomb as EDH staples.
This thread on the official forums has been generating some interesting discussion. Basically it's about if EDH no longer needs the perceived barrier to entry criteria.
One of the points is that the actual barrier to entry into the format is the lowest it could probably ever be, with there being 5 precon deck released per year at less then $40. These decks are also well put together containing many staple cards. Sitting down with a fresh out of the box precon is likely going to be of a respectable power level for many EDH groups, as opposed to sitting down to a game of standard with an event deck where you are going to be blown out game after game.
I actually agree with this. Not only is EDH so popular that any barrier to entry is already mitigated, but as you said, the precons are definitely capable of holding their own at a medium-power table anyway.
Obviously if there is an argument to get rid of the PBtE philosophy it means that the cards banned for that reason would have to reexamined. I'm not sure if any of the power 8 or LoA would be just perfect for the format if not for their monetary cost. Legal moxen push people to 5 color builds. Black Lotus is the poster child for to much mana to quickly.
Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are stronger than Black Lotus, so either Lotus is unbanned or those two are banned. But as the RC has said, they go by artistic vision and feel, rather than logic, numbers, power level, consistency, etc. I do agree with their stance on Moxen however, as they "interact poorly with the format".
This thread on the official forums has been generating some interesting discussion. Basically it's about if EDH no longer needs the perceived barrier to entry criteria.
One of the points is that the actual barrier to entry into the format is the lowest it could probably ever be, with there being 5 precon deck released per year at less then $40. These decks are also well put together containing many staple cards. Sitting down with a fresh out of the box precon is likely going to be of a respectable power level for many EDH groups, as opposed to sitting down to a game of standard with an event deck where you are going to be blown out game after game.
Obviously if there is an argument to get rid of the PBtE philosophy it means that the cards banned for that reason would have to reexamined. I'm not sure if any of the power 8 or LoA would be just perfect for the format if not for their monetary cost. Legal moxen push people to 5 color builds. Black Lotus is the poster child for to much mana to quickly.
One way to further ease the PBtE of EDH is to copy what the find folk who run regular highlander did for their format.
I'm actually someone who is opposed to my opponents playing with gold border cards in my EDH games, but that is because I feel they violate the "Commander is played with vintage legal cards" rule. An official statement that they were permitted (or not permitted) could remove all of the gray area around gold border cards. IE and CE have power, original duals, and other expensive cards like Forcefield and Berserk. The championship decks have Force of Will, Wasteland, Vampiric Tutor, Metalworker, fetchlands, Survival of the Fittest, Gaea's Cradle, Academy Rector, and Entomb as EDH staples.
I was actually about to post the same thing. I encourage everyone to read that thread because there is some really good discussion and it has piqued the interest of Sheldon. We are a much larger group with some bright individuals so I think our thoughts would be welcome as well.
My own thoughts which I posted there were essentially that the "perceived barrier to entry (PBtE)" rules are not needed because the format has grown much larger and while you will still have people who feel intimidated by seeing expensive rare cards like Moxen, they will also see a much larger group playing with cheaper cards as well.
Pros:
- because PBtE is only one factor, most of the cards are still strong candidates for remaining banned
- stays true to the format tenent of "I get to play with cool old cards that I can't play anywhere else"
- makes the ban list more uniform (Card X is banned for it's price but not Card Y) (and yes I know that isn't the way it works but too many people misunderstand PBtE)
Cons:
- legalizing these cards will only drive their prices even higher, furthering the divide of the haves and have nots
- if few of the cards would not come off the list, there is not much gain with a potential downside
Casual 60-card didn't have a banlist and seemed to work out okay.
I'm actually interested in hearing more peoples' thoughts on this perspective.
It sucks. When i started play, I had an elf deck. Played against a tog deck once... that sucked. Played against someone reanimating worldgorger dragon with animate dead and fireballing me. My personall favorite was when someone dropped an island, 4 soul rings, and a platinum angel turn 2. I scooped when he cast tinker for a darksteel forge. My problem with 60 card magic is that it's extremely rock paper scizors. You can built a deck that steam rolls some decks, but gets owned by something like circle of protection red. Singleton formats definately reward build diversity and your ability to answer or work around problems. I haven't played 60 card magic in 7 years.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
How does the rule that allows Collector's Edition work? Do they mean "if the edition cannot be determined from the back of the card in a sleeve". Obviously Collector's Edition are clearly marked as such in addition to the square corners.
Ultimately I don't care if my opponents play with proxies as long as it's a reasonable number. All of the alternate printings are little more than nice proxies, so I would not object to them either.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Black lotus hold on a moment did you just dis black lotus I mean sol
Ring is a card but it's a ******* black lotus if you think sol Ring is just a better card your dreaming. Not that I think sol ring is fair it's the ubiquitous plauge upon the format but come on now BLACK LOTUS.
How does the rule that allows Collector's Edition work? Do they mean "if the edition cannot be determined from the back of the card in a sleeve". Obviously Collector's Edition are clearly marked as such in addition to the square corners.
They mean the back of the card when it is in a sleeve. Meaning you must play opaque sleeves to use them. Since highlander is a format that has supported tournaments, it is possible to call a judge on someone using sleeves that did not properly hide the card backs for marked cards.
Black lotus hold on a moment did you just dis black lotus I mean sol
Ring is a card but it's a ******* black lotus if you think sol Ring is just a better card your dreaming. Not that I think sol ring is fair it's the ubiquitous plauge upon the format but come on now BLACK LOTUS.
Correct, I do think Sol Ring is at least equal to the power of Black Lotus in this format, and I think that Mana Crypt is at least slightly better than Black Lotus in this format.
Just chiming in - I play EDH almost exclusively, with 3 different playgroups. We all use the "offical" banlist, and we all seem pretty pretty happy with the way it is.
...but a lot of us would probably stop playing if we felt like we had to go out and pick up a set of CE moxes/lotus to stay competitive...especially because they day they announce the unbanning the price would jump up 300%. (Probably more because of speculators)
Just chiming in - I play EDH almost exclusively, with 3 different playgroups. We all use the "offical" banlist, and we all seem pretty pretty happy with the way it is.
...but a lot of us would probably stop playing if we felt like we had to go out and pick up a set of CE moxes/lotus to stay competitive...especially because they day they announce the unbanning the price would jump up 300%. (Probably more because of speculators)
But if no one in your groups could afford them and therefore wouldn't be playing them, aren't you all still just as competitive as before they were unbanned? There will only be an arms race if someone buys that first nuke.
Black lotus hold on a moment did you just dis black lotus I mean sol
Ring is a card but it's a ******* black lotus if you think sol Ring is just a better card your dreaming. Not that I think sol ring is fair it's the ubiquitous plauge upon the format but come on now BLACK LOTUS.
If you are comboing out on T1 or T2, Black Lotus will be better than Sol Ring and friends... but if you're sitting down for an actual game of magic instead of sitting down with an audience to watch you durdle, the cards that stick around are going to provide more value.
Just chiming in - I play EDH almost exclusively, with 3 different playgroups. We all use the "offical" banlist, and we all seem pretty pretty happy with the way it is.
...but a lot of us would probably stop playing if we felt like we had to go out and pick up a set of CE moxes/lotus to stay competitive...especially because they day they announce the unbanning the price would jump up 300%. (Probably more because of speculators)
But if no one in your groups could afford them and therefore wouldn't be playing them, aren't you all still just as competitive as before they were unbanned? There will only be an arms race if someone buys that first nuke.
We have a handful of vintage players that are already "fully powered", so the rest of the group would just start off behind unless the rest of us could catch up.
We have a handful of vintage players that are already "fully powered", so the rest of the group would just start off behind unless the rest of us could catch up.
Ah. But then as a followup question, are those players already running decks full of duals, Tabernacles, Mana Drains, and other cards that force you to keep up? Because that was my feeling about this: you have three likely scenarios. 1) no one in your group has or can afford anything which hypothetically would come off the list, so nothing changes for you. 2) a player(s) in your group has or can afford the cards, their deck gets stronger (which most likely with or without these few cards they were spending top dollar to min/max their decks anyway so no matter what you were struggling to keep up with an arms race). 3) people proxy the cards.
We have a handful of vintage players that are already "fully powered", so the rest of the group would just start off behind unless the rest of us could catch up.
Ah. But then as a followup question, are those players already running decks full of duals, Tabernacles, Mana Drains, and other cards that force you to keep up? Because that was my feeling about this: you have three likely scenarios. 1) no one in your group has or can afford anything which hypothetically would come off the list, so nothing changes for you. 2) a player(s) in your group has or can afford the cards, their deck gets stronger (which most likely with or without these few cards they were spending top dollar to min/max their decks anyway so no matter what you were struggling to keep up with an arms race). 3) people proxy the cards.
My groups are full of longtime legacy players with relatively huge collections...plus three or four vintage players. Our meta is already full of forces, duals, mana drains, mana crypts, etc. Nobody proxies anything. But, If P9 were to suddenly be allowed, the majority of us would be at a disadvantage unless either we shelled out a bunch of cash to get CE versions (which nobody wants) or decided to allow proxies (which nobody wants). I don't think anyone would be happy asking other players (who already have power) to "please make your deck worse so we can compete fairly".
My own experience with taking my existing deck and slowly adding more and more money cards to it has been 1.) none of them drastically improve your win percentage, since you're deck is still 100 cards and it doesn't much matter if 4 of them are over $100. 2.) Nobody even knows what cards are the very expensive ones. I've had players assume my antiquities Titania's Song was $50 when it is only $1. Just today, I saw someone confuse Mana Vault for Mana Cryot and blow up the vault.
Even if "financial barrier to entry" was removed, I still think the format would be a lot healthier without allowing the remaining Power cards. I don't see that adding Moxen, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Black Lotus or Library of Alexandria to the format would add anything positive.
And btw, I say this as someone who sold off his Lotuses and Moxen a long time ago, but still owns copies of Ancestral Recall and Time Walk (both in fair to poor condition, but definitely playable in a sleeve).
Even if "financial barrier to entry" was removed, I still think the format would be a lot healthier without allowing the remaining Power cards. I don't see that adding Moxen, Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Black Lotus or Library of Alexandria to the format would add anything positive.
And btw, I say this as someone who sold off his Lotuses and Moxen a long time ago, but still owns copies of Ancestral Recall and Time Walk (both in fair to poor condition, but definitely playable in a sleeve).
Out of all the cards banned by PBtE, I think you could have a decent debate on AR, but that's it. LoA is worth discussing, but I still think the ubiquitous nature of the card should not be discounted.
I don't have much experience playing with Library of Alexandria. Would every deck capable of playing the card choose to do so if it was available to them?
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LoA certainly has a factor of risk because it can go in any deck and is not a card that is limited to a niche strategy.
I'm skeptical about how powerful it actually is in games of magic played today, twenty years after it's big impact. I tend to find that I do not usually keep 7 cards in hand no matter what deck I am playing; usually I have 2-4 cards. The exception is if I have a powerful draw engine like Necropotence or Greater Good that can keep my hand full, but then LoA is just drawing one card while the real CA is coming from the other card. I feel like top decking a LoA in the late game would often just make it a colorless land, because you can't afford the time to not play anything for several turns till you build back up to 7 cards.
There is always the potential to have a LoA in your opening hand which lets you start drawing cards from it immediately, but you are still being outdrawn by the table 3 to 2 and you have to pace your game around LoA since you can't play too many cards in one turn or risk shutting off the draw. There are ways for your opponent to interact with it beyond just LD, by using discard, which is not just a black thing thanks to newer cards like Chandra Ablaze, Karn Liberated, and Sword of Feast and Famine.
I understand that there is a very likely large price and demand spike associated with unbanning even very cheap cards, no matter what format they are in. Unbanned LoA in EDH could hit $1000. I do wonder if LoA is indeed to powerful for Legacy and if the card couldn't be unbanned in that format first, the price surge then, and then everyone realize how the card isn't even that good in Legacy and then it becomes unbanned in EDH. I can't imagine a format where Wasteland, Blood Moon, Phyrexian Revoker see as much play as they do would have any problem dealing with LoA legal as a 4 of.
I don't have much experience playing with Library of Alexandria. Would every deck capable of playing the card choose to do so if it was available to them?
I don't have much experience playing it either, but I view it like Reliquary Tower. There is no downside to running it (other than having one less land slot for a colored land), and there is a HUGE potential for upside.
Having played with Library back in the day, and seeing how common it is in EDH for players to hav3 7+ cards in hand, I can state with some certainty that it is still quite capable of being broken in EDH. Is it more broken than some other cards which are not banned? That's questionable, but I don't see that it being unbanned would bring anything good to the format.
Having played with Library back in the day, and seeing how common it is in EDH for players to hav3 7+ cards in hand, I can state with some certainty that it is still quite capable of being broken in EDH. Is it more broken than some other cards which are not banned? That's questionable, but I don't see that it being unbanned would bring anything good to the format.
While I don't disagree with it having the potential to be broken in EDH, I'm not convinced that it wouldn't bring anything good to the format. If nothing else it would give W and R decks a decent draw engine and would add another iconic card to the format's card pool - something which is a huge part of the format's appeal for many players.
Until you look at the price tag and realize that just because it's balanced and gives red a white decks a draw engine most players will never bother getting. It's not back breaking at all, but it wont suddenly appear in decks. You could build ten EDH decks for the price of one LOA. Is that banworthy? Who cares. 99% of edh play groups wont even notice if it stays on or stays off.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
Having played with Library back in the day, and seeing how common it is in EDH for players to hav3 7+ cards in hand, I can state with some certainty that it is still quite capable of being broken in EDH. Is it more broken than some other cards which are not banned? That's questionable, but I don't see that it being unbanned would bring anything good to the format.
While I don't disagree with it having the potential to be broken in EDH, I'm not convinced that it wouldn't bring anything good to the format. If nothing else it would give W and R decks a decent draw engine and would add another iconic card to the format's card pool - something which is a huge part of the format's appeal for many players.
Possibly true, but when you consider the negative impact of giving U and B decks yet more excessive card draw, I still don't see this as a net positive.
I know this isn't the place for Dual Commander bans, but Oloro needs to go in 1v1. He creates what is possibly the only 1 card combo in Magic history in the colors with the best tutors for it (Zur's Weirding). The fact that he doesn't need to even come out of the Command Zone to go infinite is terrifying.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
One of the points is that the actual barrier to entry into the format is the lowest it could probably ever be, with there being 5 precon deck released per year at less then $40. These decks are also well put together containing many staple cards. Sitting down with a fresh out of the box precon is likely going to be of a respectable power level for many EDH groups, as opposed to sitting down to a game of standard with an event deck where you are going to be blown out game after game.
Obviously if there is an argument to get rid of the PBtE philosophy it means that the cards banned for that reason would have to reexamined. I'm not sure if any of the power 8 or LoA would be just perfect for the format if not for their monetary cost. Legal moxen push people to 5 color builds. Black Lotus is the poster child for to much mana to quickly.
One way to further ease the PBtE of EDH is to copy what the find folk who run regular highlander did for their format.
I'm actually someone who is opposed to my opponents playing with gold border cards in my EDH games, but that is because I feel they violate the "Commander is played with vintage legal cards" rule. An official statement that they were permitted (or not permitted) could remove all of the gray area around gold border cards. IE and CE have power, original duals, and other expensive cards like Forcefield and Berserk. The championship decks have Force of Will, Wasteland, Vampiric Tutor, Metalworker, fetchlands, Survival of the Fittest, Gaea's Cradle, Academy Rector, and Entomb as EDH staples.
Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are stronger than Black Lotus, so either Lotus is unbanned or those two are banned. But as the RC has said, they go by artistic vision and feel, rather than logic, numbers, power level, consistency, etc. I do agree with their stance on Moxen however, as they "interact poorly with the format".
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
I was actually about to post the same thing. I encourage everyone to read that thread because there is some really good discussion and it has piqued the interest of Sheldon. We are a much larger group with some bright individuals so I think our thoughts would be welcome as well.
My own thoughts which I posted there were essentially that the "perceived barrier to entry (PBtE)" rules are not needed because the format has grown much larger and while you will still have people who feel intimidated by seeing expensive rare cards like Moxen, they will also see a much larger group playing with cheaper cards as well.
Pros:
- because PBtE is only one factor, most of the cards are still strong candidates for remaining banned
- stays true to the format tenent of "I get to play with cool old cards that I can't play anywhere else"
- makes the ban list more uniform (Card X is banned for it's price but not Card Y) (and yes I know that isn't the way it works but too many people misunderstand PBtE)
Cons:
- legalizing these cards will only drive their prices even higher, furthering the divide of the haves and have nots
- if few of the cards would not come off the list, there is not much gain with a potential downside
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
It sucks. When i started play, I had an elf deck. Played against a tog deck once... that sucked. Played against someone reanimating worldgorger dragon with animate dead and fireballing me. My personall favorite was when someone dropped an island, 4 soul rings, and a platinum angel turn 2. I scooped when he cast tinker for a darksteel forge. My problem with 60 card magic is that it's extremely rock paper scizors. You can built a deck that steam rolls some decks, but gets owned by something like circle of protection red. Singleton formats definately reward build diversity and your ability to answer or work around problems. I haven't played 60 card magic in 7 years.
Ultimately I don't care if my opponents play with proxies as long as it's a reasonable number. All of the alternate printings are little more than nice proxies, so I would not object to them either.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Ring is a card but it's a ******* black lotus if you think sol Ring is just a better card your dreaming. Not that I think sol ring is fair it's the ubiquitous plauge upon the format but come on now BLACK LOTUS.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
They mean the back of the card when it is in a sleeve. Meaning you must play opaque sleeves to use them. Since highlander is a format that has supported tournaments, it is possible to call a judge on someone using sleeves that did not properly hide the card backs for marked cards.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
...but a lot of us would probably stop playing if we felt like we had to go out and pick up a set of CE moxes/lotus to stay competitive...especially because they day they announce the unbanning the price would jump up 300%. (Probably more because of speculators)
But if no one in your groups could afford them and therefore wouldn't be playing them, aren't you all still just as competitive as before they were unbanned? There will only be an arms race if someone buys that first nuke.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
We have a handful of vintage players that are already "fully powered", so the rest of the group would just start off behind unless the rest of us could catch up.
Ah. But then as a followup question, are those players already running decks full of duals, Tabernacles, Mana Drains, and other cards that force you to keep up? Because that was my feeling about this: you have three likely scenarios. 1) no one in your group has or can afford anything which hypothetically would come off the list, so nothing changes for you. 2) a player(s) in your group has or can afford the cards, their deck gets stronger (which most likely with or without these few cards they were spending top dollar to min/max their decks anyway so no matter what you were struggling to keep up with an arms race). 3) people proxy the cards.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
My groups are full of longtime legacy players with relatively huge collections...plus three or four vintage players. Our meta is already full of forces, duals, mana drains, mana crypts, etc. Nobody proxies anything. But, If P9 were to suddenly be allowed, the majority of us would be at a disadvantage unless either we shelled out a bunch of cash to get CE versions (which nobody wants) or decided to allow proxies (which nobody wants). I don't think anyone would be happy asking other players (who already have power) to "please make your deck worse so we can compete fairly".
And btw, I say this as someone who sold off his Lotuses and Moxen a long time ago, but still owns copies of Ancestral Recall and Time Walk (both in fair to poor condition, but definitely playable in a sleeve).
Out of all the cards banned by PBtE, I think you could have a decent debate on AR, but that's it. LoA is worth discussing, but I still think the ubiquitous nature of the card should not be discounted.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I'm skeptical about how powerful it actually is in games of magic played today, twenty years after it's big impact. I tend to find that I do not usually keep 7 cards in hand no matter what deck I am playing; usually I have 2-4 cards. The exception is if I have a powerful draw engine like Necropotence or Greater Good that can keep my hand full, but then LoA is just drawing one card while the real CA is coming from the other card. I feel like top decking a LoA in the late game would often just make it a colorless land, because you can't afford the time to not play anything for several turns till you build back up to 7 cards.
There is always the potential to have a LoA in your opening hand which lets you start drawing cards from it immediately, but you are still being outdrawn by the table 3 to 2 and you have to pace your game around LoA since you can't play too many cards in one turn or risk shutting off the draw. There are ways for your opponent to interact with it beyond just LD, by using discard, which is not just a black thing thanks to newer cards like Chandra Ablaze, Karn Liberated, and Sword of Feast and Famine.
I understand that there is a very likely large price and demand spike associated with unbanning even very cheap cards, no matter what format they are in. Unbanned LoA in EDH could hit $1000. I do wonder if LoA is indeed to powerful for Legacy and if the card couldn't be unbanned in that format first, the price surge then, and then everyone realize how the card isn't even that good in Legacy and then it becomes unbanned in EDH. I can't imagine a format where Wasteland, Blood Moon, Phyrexian Revoker see as much play as they do would have any problem dealing with LoA legal as a 4 of.
I don't have much experience playing it either, but I view it like Reliquary Tower. There is no downside to running it (other than having one less land slot for a colored land), and there is a HUGE potential for upside.
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Until you look at the price tag and realize that just because it's balanced and gives red a white decks a draw engine most players will never bother getting. It's not back breaking at all, but it wont suddenly appear in decks. You could build ten EDH decks for the price of one LOA. Is that banworthy? Who cares. 99% of edh play groups wont even notice if it stays on or stays off.
Possibly true, but when you consider the negative impact of giving U and B decks yet more excessive card draw, I still don't see this as a net positive.