I'm curious to see what the format would be like without DEN or Prophet (not necessarily both at the same time). Before Prime Time was banned the community was really divided about it just like we are now, and once it got banned a lot of people voiced their opinion that it was a stupid ban. But after a fee months without PT people realized that the format was more diverse. I'm curious if we have a similar scenario with Prophet.
As annoying as prophet is I don't see anymore g/u decks than I used to. It's annoying, but it requires 2 colors and isn't as centralizing as prime time. When I see prophet it's a kill on sight, because I don't how explosive that player is going to be. Usually even if the prophet survives a few turns it doesn't revolve the game around it and can be dealt with. It doesn't create card advantage and It's really easy to overextend with the prophet. It hasn't been the worst thing to deal with. I haven't seen dead eye navigator in a while, either because people think it's too stupid and won't put it in their decks, or because it's not strong enough. I haven't really ever had a problem with it.
off the top of my head there aren't any creatures that I think should banned at the moment. I tend to still dislike some of the typical cards for their power level, like mana crypt for speed and price and necropotence for card draw efficiency. But really the ones at the top of my hate list are mostly the uber fast artifact ramp, but I rarely see those so I have no real complaints with the current banlist.
I'm curious to see what the format would be like without DEN or Prophet (not necessarily both at the same time). Before Prime Time was banned the community was really divided about it just like we are now, and once it got banned a lot of people voiced their opinion that it was a stupid ban. But after a fee months without PT people realized that the format was more diverse. I'm curious if we have a similar scenario with Prophet.
The way I see it is there are the big 3: Prophet, DEN & Consecrated Sphinx. That there are 3 when there have traditionally been one that people always talked about (Emrakul, Prime Time, Kokusho, Sylvan Primordial) indicates to me that we're in a pretty good spot when it comes to big scary creatures. It would make the most sense to me to ban all or none because if you only ban one people will just complain about the other 2.
I'm curious to see what the format would be like without DEN or Prophet (not necessarily both at the same time). Before Prime Time was banned the community was really divided about it just like we are now, and once it got banned a lot of people voiced their opinion that it was a stupid ban. But after a fee months without PT people realized that the format was more diverse. I'm curious if we have a similar scenario with Prophet.
The way I see it is there are the big 3: Prophet, DEN & Consecrated Sphinx. That there are 3 when there have traditionally been one that people always talked about (Emrakul, Prime Time, Kokusho, Sylvan Primordial) indicates to me that we're in a pretty good spot when it comes to big scary creatures. It would make the most sense to me to ban all or none because if you only ban one people will just complain about the other 2.
It's funny how different the 1v1 meta is. None of those three see any play. Prime time isn't banned and the only top deck he appears in is Imperial Animar. Emrakul is legal and he sees no play at all. Nor does SP. I guess it's mainly because I play 1v1 that I don't see much of an issue with any of these cards.
It's funny how different the 1v1 meta is. None of those three see any play. Prime time isn't banned and the only top deck he appears in is Imperial Animar. Emrakul is legal and he sees no play at all. Nor does SP. I guess it's mainly because I play 1v1 that I don't see much of an issue with any of these cards.
That's because those 3 are not good cards when you're looking at a Vintage card pool. The difference in multiplayer commander is most people aren't trying to build the most competitive deck possible and these card create issues in battlecruiser games.
The real problem, I believe, is the explosion in the number of viable UGx generals in the past few years.
It used to be if you saw a UGx deck, it was clunky Momir/Kraj, or maybe Jenara/Rafiq, or a slow stupid PC Dragon, or maybe 5c.
All of which have very powerful abilities. We've got a whole slew of near-Sharuum-level generals in the UG spectrum, and that means you're seeing a lot more play along the lines of Seedborn Muse + Capsize or Crystal Shard + Mystic Snake or Deadeye Navigator + Terastodon, and all that kind of garbage.
Blue/Green/X has always been the best colors to play, and now they've got the generals to match.
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The real problem, I believe, is the explosion in the number of viable UGx generals in the past few years.
It used to be if you saw a UGx deck, it was clunky Momir/Kraj, or maybe Jenara/Rafiq, or a slow stupid PC Dragon, or maybe 5c.
All of which have very powerful abilities. We've got a whole slew of near-Sharuum-level generals in the UG spectrum, and that means you're seeing a lot more play along the lines of Seedborn Muse + Capsize or Crystal Shard + Mystic Snake or Deadeye Navigator + Terastodon, and all that kind of garbage.
Blue/Green/X has always been the best colors to play, and now they've got the generals to match.
sure there's been more generals in those colors, but it doesn't make a huge difference. Most u/g decks that aren't theme decks(aka vorael) are more or less the same. There really aren't that many u/g decks that require you to build the deck in a specific way. Most encourage you to build generic goodstuff decks. I thin u/g is more devastating to face against more casual metas. U/G can be very strong, but when you play very competitive games it isn't the best anymore.
I'd say in any developed meta (that is, competitive, but not Hermit Druid vs Ad Nauseam competitive), UGx decks are generally the best.
The fact that the generals do very powerful things instead of just being okay is a pretty big deal.
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The real problem, I believe, is the explosion in the number of viable UGx generals in the past few years.
It used to be if you saw a UGx deck, it was clunky Momir/Kraj, or maybe Jenara/Rafiq, or a slow stupid PC Dragon, or maybe 5c.
All of which have very powerful abilities. We've got a whole slew of near-Sharuum-level generals in the UG spectrum, and that means you're seeing a lot more play along the lines of Seedborn Muse + Capsize or Crystal Shard + Mystic Snake or Deadeye Navigator + Terastodon, and all that kind of garbage.
Blue/Green/X has always been the best colors to play, and now they've got the generals to match.
sure there's been more generals in those colors, but it doesn't make a huge difference. Most u/g decks that aren't theme decks(aka vorael) are more or less the same. There really aren't that many u/g decks that require you to build the deck in a specific way. Most encourage you to build generic goodstuff decks. I thin u/g is more devastating to face against more casual metas. U/G can be very strong, but when you play very competitive games it isn't the best anymore.
So then it sounds like something the RC would want to keep on their radar?
I'd say in any developed meta (that is, competitive, but not Hermit Druid vs Ad Nauseam competitive), UGx decks are generally the best.
The fact that the generals do very powerful things instead of just being okay is a pretty big deal.
There's one guy in my playgroup where literally every one of his decks has both blue and green in them except Azami and Omnath.
It's like:
Rafiq
Maelstrom Wanderer
Damia
Sliver Overlord
Reaper King (yes, two different 5c decks)
Zegana
Azami
Omnath
I generally avoid playing with him, because I swear his decks share an average of 40% of the nonland cards. I'm pretty sure the only one of those decks without Cultivate is Azami, and the only one without Rhystic Study is Omnath.
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The real problem, I believe, is the explosion in the number of viable UGx generals in the past few years.
It used to be if you saw a UGx deck, it was clunky Momir/Kraj, or maybe Jenara/Rafiq, or a slow stupid PC Dragon, or maybe 5c.
All of which have very powerful abilities. We've got a whole slew of near-Sharuum-level generals in the UG spectrum, and that means you're seeing a lot more play along the lines of Seedborn Muse + Capsize or Crystal Shard + Mystic Snake or Deadeye Navigator + Terastodon, and all that kind of garbage.
Blue/Green/X has always been the best colors to play, and now they've got the generals to match.
sure there's been more generals in those colors, but it doesn't make a huge difference. Most u/g decks that aren't theme decks(aka vorael) are more or less the same. There really aren't that many u/g decks that require you to build the deck in a specific way. Most encourage you to build generic goodstuff decks. I thin u/g is more devastating to face against more casual metas. U/G can be very strong, but when you play very competitive games it isn't the best anymore.
I would beg to differ with Derevi. She's absurd. There's a reason she got banned instantly in French. And the same reasons apply to MP. I turned my Derevi deck into an MP banlist deck, which made it even a bit faster, and it's still the most hated deck at my normal LGS. Build around her and you lock the whole table down and play by yourself. You're right though in that there aren't really other U/G generals that are as broken as her.
Honestly, I think it was banned because Flash/Hulk had just torn up the Eternal Scene post the Flash un-errata, leading to Flash getting banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage. With that deck fresh on everyone's mind, people turned to EDH and tried to replicate the same effect.
I personally don't think it's a huge problem. Certainly no more so than Tooth and Nail.
The issue isn't just that some people will use it like Tooth and Nail. The problem is that even in more casual settings the card is ridiculous. Being a creature makes it easy to recur and teaming it up with a sac outlet can do some silly things to the board. I think the difference is that either card is busted if someone is intent on combo-ing out, but if you are playing a more social game then Protean Hulk becomes a long term problem where T&N is typically a one-shot deal. Even if you did recur T&N, its still a 9 mana investment over and over where its only 7 for Protean Hulk; a small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
I think they should just ban T&N and be done with both of them....
I think we should ban players from EDH. The format as a whole would be a lot healthier.
Lol. Reminds me of an X-files episode (Je Souhaite) where Mulder discovers a genie and one of his wishes is for peace on earth. The genie grants his wish by making all the humans on the planet disappear...
UG problem is that people like to close their eyes and try to do their own things. It is particularly a thing that UGx does. The UG really only becomes a big problem when everyone decides that UGx is the best and closes their eyes and ramps into things. It is a meta diversity. UG is powerful back actually rather easy to put off balance. They rely on the splash colour for the efficient removal and boardwipes for starters. They are hard to beat in the late game though, which is why people see them as a problem, because their games go late because they don't have a good understanding of "whoes the beatdown" and don't apply the pressure when they need to. It is also possible to come at them from the other direction and play control against them disrupt their ramp and kill their creatures.. most UG decks are creature based.
UG problem is that people like to close their eyes and try to do their own things. It is particularly a thing that UGx does. The UG really only becomes a big problem when everyone decides that UGx is the best and closes their eyes and ramps into things. It is a meta diversity. UG is powerful back actually rather easy to put off balance. They rely on the splash colour for the efficient removal and boardwipes for starters. They are hard to beat in the late game though, which is why people see them as a problem, because their games go late because they don't have a good understanding of "whoes the beatdown" and don't apply the pressure when they need to. It is also possible to come at them from the other direction and play control against them disrupt their ramp and kill their creatures.. most UG decks are creature based.
Okay, so to defeat UGx decks you need efficient beatdown and some control? I think I know a color combination that provides that.
Seriously, that is what makes UG so good. A competently built UG deck can stall the early game and bury the late game in advantage. I mean, I play a reasonably compact Jund Hatebears list and I just can't compete if UG decks get a foothold.
UG problem is that people like to close their eyes and try to do their own things. It is particularly a thing that UGx does. The UG really only becomes a big problem when everyone decides that UGx is the best and closes their eyes and ramps into things. It is a meta diversity. UG is powerful back actually rather easy to put off balance. They rely on the splash colour for the efficient removal and boardwipes for starters. They are hard to beat in the late game though, which is why people see them as a problem, because their games go late because they don't have a good understanding of "whoes the beatdown" and don't apply the pressure when they need to. It is also possible to come at them from the other direction and play control against them disrupt their ramp and kill their creatures.. most UG decks are creature based.
Okay, so to defeat UGx decks you need efficient beatdown and some control? I think I know a color combination that provides that.
Seriously, that is what makes UG so good. A competently built UG deck can stall the early game and bury the late game in advantage. I mean, I play a reasonably compact Jund Hatebears list and I just can't compete if UG decks get a foothold.
do you play land destruction? U/G decks hate that. As good as u/g decks are I'm more afraid of a tuned esper deck, although they tend to be more rare. Probably because they aren't as fun to play as a tuned u/g deck.
Why do people here have such a hard on for land destruction here?... no I like having friends I am not going to play it. I explained the reason why it land destruction is a problem there is the 1 land per turn rule, but I accept that for some people it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends. so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable.
Yeah ok you have a point about aggro and control UG does a lot of tapping out and can't run as many counterspells as a dedicated counterspell deck, It also doesn't have the explosiveness of an aggro deck. I think my point is that UGx is a problem if everyone in the meta is playing UGx. It needs to be beaten by not playing midrange but aggro or control. It owns the middle ground.
In any case I kind of think Cyclonic rift is worse than anything else. Deadeye needs a million mana Prophet has a bunch of similar cards and is an easy to kill creature.
Why do people here have such a hard on for land destruction here?... no I like having friends I am not going to play it. I explained the reason why it land destruction is a problem there is the 1 land per turn rule, but I accept that for some people it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends. so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable.
Yeah ok you have a point about aggro and control UG does a lot of tapping out and can't run as many counterspells as a dedicated counterspell deck, It also doesn't have the explosiveness of an aggro deck. I think my point is that UGx is a problem if everyone in the meta is playing UGx. It needs to be beaten by not playing midrange but aggro or control. It owns the middle ground.
In any case I kind of think Cyclonic rift is worse than anything else. Deadeye needs a million mana Prophet has a bunch of similar cards and is an easy to kill creature.
it's not that we have a hard on for it, we use it as a tool. Land destruction when used effectively can help cement your board and can help you keep your lead. Land destruction for no reason is really annoying and few people here will advocate it. I understand that many playgroups don't like ld and that's fine. Some playgroups are fine with ld. They are fine, because they like to adapt and look at game playing like a puzzle of sorts. How can I get out of this situation? How can I stop that player when he uses x strategy? I personally think magic is more interesting when you let metas evolve and make people deal with your threats and let them think how to get around a particular card or situation. Playgroups that don't like ld are fine. They like to build a deck and not have to change it based on what other people might play. I get that. "it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends" that's just not true. Believe or not there are people who don't mind when you use land destruction and will stay your friends if you do. Not liking land destruction is fine, but don't insult people who do. "so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable." It may be socially unacceptable with you, but not others. You don't speak for everyone.
Why do people here have such a hard on for land destruction here?... no I like having friends I am not going to play it. I explained the reason why it land destruction is a problem there is the 1 land per turn rule, but I accept that for some people it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends. so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable.
Yeah ok you have a point about aggro and control UG does a lot of tapping out and can't run as many counterspells as a dedicated counterspell deck, It also doesn't have the explosiveness of an aggro deck. I think my point is that UGx is a problem if everyone in the meta is playing UGx. It needs to be beaten by not playing midrange but aggro or control. It owns the middle ground.
In any case I kind of think Cyclonic rift is worse than anything else. Deadeye needs a million mana Prophet has a bunch of similar cards and is an easy to kill creature.
Because it's accepted in some metas and is a very strong option in a lot of decks. I personally don't like running it without counter back up, but that's a meta call. While some groups may discourage it's use, just as many groups have their meta's tuned around its existance.
Prophet's most similar card needs an additional card in play to get the full effect. Personal opinion, but I'd say that DEN is easier to remove than prophet. I've had too many games where I've pinged Prophet for lethal, only for its controler to flash out a clone. UGx (mostly Bant, to be honest) is a fairly common sight here. Most of the time we don't get multiple in one game, but most games have one deck with it. But those of us not running Prophet generally centralize around killing it with fire, reanimating it, stealing it, copying it, etc. If I can, I try to exile it, because everyone else just wants to use it and not necessarily get rid of it permanently.
I don't know if it is ban worthy, but it's incredibly annoying.
Why do people here have such a hard on for land destruction here?... no I like having friends I am not going to play it. I explained the reason why it land destruction is a problem there is the 1 land per turn rule, but I accept that for some people it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends. so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable.
Yeah ok you have a point about aggro and control UG does a lot of tapping out and can't run as many counterspells as a dedicated counterspell deck, It also doesn't have the explosiveness of an aggro deck. I think my point is that UGx is a problem if everyone in the meta is playing UGx. It needs to be beaten by not playing midrange but aggro or control. It owns the middle ground.
In any case I kind of think Cyclonic rift is worse than anything else. Deadeye needs a million mana Prophet has a bunch of similar cards and is an easy to kill creature.
LD is another form of countering spells. Also, it's possible to have friends and play LD. I really wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who whined about it. Better off without them.
UG problem is that people like to close their eyes and try to do their own things. It is particularly a thing that UGx does. The UG really only becomes a big problem when everyone decides that UGx is the best and closes their eyes and ramps into things. It is a meta diversity. UG is powerful back actually rather easy to put off balance. They rely on the splash colour for the efficient removal and boardwipes for starters. They are hard to beat in the late game though, which is why people see them as a problem, because their games go late because they don't have a good understanding of "whoes the beatdown" and don't apply the pressure when they need to. It is also possible to come at them from the other direction and play control against them disrupt their ramp and kill their creatures.. most UG decks are creature based.
Okay, so to defeat UGx decks you need efficient beatdown and some control? I think I know a color combination that provides that.
Seriously, that is what makes UG so good. A competently built UG deck can stall the early game and bury the late game in advantage. I mean, I play a reasonably compact Jund Hatebears list and I just can't compete if UG decks get a foothold.
do you play land destruction? U/G decks hate that. As good as u/g decks are I'm more afraid of a tuned esper deck, although they tend to be more rare. Probably because they aren't as fun to play as a tuned u/g deck.
Stax decks tend to wear thin when you play them repeatedly. I have a Nath Stax and Ghave Stax deck.
Personal opinion, but I'd say that DEN is easier to remove than prophet. I've had too many games where I've pinged Prophet for lethal, only for its controler to flash out a clone.
I'd say DEN is harder to remove, because it has built in protection. Ping it for lethal? Flicker it. Ping it in response? Put another flicker on the stack.
Digital, you know that any time DEN (or the creature it's paired with) leave and enter the battlefield, they become unpaired, and you can respond to the Soulbond trigger by killing it. And since it's not bonded at the time, they can't flicker it in response.
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As annoying as prophet is I don't see anymore g/u decks than I used to. It's annoying, but it requires 2 colors and isn't as centralizing as prime time. When I see prophet it's a kill on sight, because I don't how explosive that player is going to be. Usually even if the prophet survives a few turns it doesn't revolve the game around it and can be dealt with. It doesn't create card advantage and It's really easy to overextend with the prophet. It hasn't been the worst thing to deal with. I haven't seen dead eye navigator in a while, either because people think it's too stupid and won't put it in their decks, or because it's not strong enough. I haven't really ever had a problem with it.
off the top of my head there aren't any creatures that I think should banned at the moment. I tend to still dislike some of the typical cards for their power level, like mana crypt for speed and price and necropotence for card draw efficiency. But really the ones at the top of my hate list are mostly the uber fast artifact ramp, but I rarely see those so I have no real complaints with the current banlist.
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It's funny how different the 1v1 meta is. None of those three see any play. Prime time isn't banned and the only top deck he appears in is Imperial Animar. Emrakul is legal and he sees no play at all. Nor does SP. I guess it's mainly because I play 1v1 that I don't see much of an issue with any of these cards.
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StaffIt used to be if you saw a UGx deck, it was clunky Momir/Kraj, or maybe Jenara/Rafiq, or a slow stupid PC Dragon, or maybe 5c.
Now, we've got:
Damia, Sage of Stone
The Mimeoplasm
Maelstrom Wanderer
Riku of Two Reflections
Animar, Soul of Elements
Prime Speaker Zegana
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Kruphix, God of Horizons
Roon of the Hidden Realms
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
All of which have very powerful abilities. We've got a whole slew of near-Sharuum-level generals in the UG spectrum, and that means you're seeing a lot more play along the lines of Seedborn Muse + Capsize or Crystal Shard + Mystic Snake or Deadeye Navigator + Terastodon, and all that kind of garbage.
Blue/Green/X has always been the best colors to play, and now they've got the generals to match.
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sure there's been more generals in those colors, but it doesn't make a huge difference. Most u/g decks that aren't theme decks(aka vorael) are more or less the same. There really aren't that many u/g decks that require you to build the deck in a specific way. Most encourage you to build generic goodstuff decks. I thin u/g is more devastating to face against more casual metas. U/G can be very strong, but when you play very competitive games it isn't the best anymore.
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StaffThe fact that the generals do very powerful things instead of just being okay is a pretty big deal.
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So then it sounds like something the RC would want to keep on their radar?
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I think this describes my meta pretty well. I don't play any UGx decks anymore, but there was a time not too long ago where the three best decks in my group were The Mimeoplasm, Riku of Two Reflections, and Jenara, Asura of War. Lately a lot of us have tried to diversify, but we still have one guy who runs Momir Vig, Simic Visionary AND Roon of the Hidden Realm with Deadeye Navigator and Prophet of Kruphix as the key pieces in both decks. I don't necessarily think the cards are overpowered and need to be banned so much as I am just sick of seeing them. Same goes for Consecrated Sphinx and Sylvan Primordial.
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StaffIt's like:
Rafiq
Maelstrom Wanderer
Damia
Sliver Overlord
Reaper King (yes, two different 5c decks)
Zegana
Azami
Omnath
I generally avoid playing with him, because I swear his decks share an average of 40% of the nonland cards. I'm pretty sure the only one of those decks without Cultivate is Azami, and the only one without Rhystic Study is Omnath.
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I would beg to differ with Derevi. She's absurd. There's a reason she got banned instantly in French. And the same reasons apply to MP. I turned my Derevi deck into an MP banlist deck, which made it even a bit faster, and it's still the most hated deck at my normal LGS. Build around her and you lock the whole table down and play by yourself. You're right though in that there aren't really other U/G generals that are as broken as her.
I think we need to ban Islands... they enable so much tomfoolery, they imbalance the game, and they are strictly better than other basic lands.
The issue isn't just that some people will use it like Tooth and Nail. The problem is that even in more casual settings the card is ridiculous. Being a creature makes it easy to recur and teaming it up with a sac outlet can do some silly things to the board. I think the difference is that either card is busted if someone is intent on combo-ing out, but if you are playing a more social game then Protean Hulk becomes a long term problem where T&N is typically a one-shot deal. Even if you did recur T&N, its still a 9 mana investment over and over where its only 7 for Protean Hulk; a small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
I think they should just ban T&N and be done with both of them....
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StaffLol. Reminds me of an X-files episode (Je Souhaite) where Mulder discovers a genie and one of his wishes is for peace on earth. The genie grants his wish by making all the humans on the planet disappear...
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Okay, so to defeat UGx decks you need efficient beatdown and some control? I think I know a color combination that provides that.
Seriously, that is what makes UG so good. A competently built UG deck can stall the early game and bury the late game in advantage. I mean, I play a reasonably compact Jund Hatebears list and I just can't compete if UG decks get a foothold.
do you play land destruction? U/G decks hate that. As good as u/g decks are I'm more afraid of a tuned esper deck, although they tend to be more rare. Probably because they aren't as fun to play as a tuned u/g deck.
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Yeah ok you have a point about aggro and control UG does a lot of tapping out and can't run as many counterspells as a dedicated counterspell deck, It also doesn't have the explosiveness of an aggro deck. I think my point is that UGx is a problem if everyone in the meta is playing UGx. It needs to be beaten by not playing midrange but aggro or control. It owns the middle ground.
In any case I kind of think Cyclonic rift is worse than anything else. Deadeye needs a million mana Prophet has a bunch of similar cards and is an easy to kill creature.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
it's not that we have a hard on for it, we use it as a tool. Land destruction when used effectively can help cement your board and can help you keep your lead. Land destruction for no reason is really annoying and few people here will advocate it. I understand that many playgroups don't like ld and that's fine. Some playgroups are fine with ld. They are fine, because they like to adapt and look at game playing like a puzzle of sorts. How can I get out of this situation? How can I stop that player when he uses x strategy? I personally think magic is more interesting when you let metas evolve and make people deal with your threats and let them think how to get around a particular card or situation. Playgroups that don't like ld are fine. They like to build a deck and not have to change it based on what other people might play. I get that. "it is a tool that can be used, if they are ok with not having friends" that's just not true. Believe or not there are people who don't mind when you use land destruction and will stay your friends if you do. Not liking land destruction is fine, but don't insult people who do. "so banned is not the same as socially unacceptable." It may be socially unacceptable with you, but not others. You don't speak for everyone.
My Saffi deck
Because it's accepted in some metas and is a very strong option in a lot of decks. I personally don't like running it without counter back up, but that's a meta call. While some groups may discourage it's use, just as many groups have their meta's tuned around its existance.
Prophet's most similar card needs an additional card in play to get the full effect. Personal opinion, but I'd say that DEN is easier to remove than prophet. I've had too many games where I've pinged Prophet for lethal, only for its controler to flash out a clone. UGx (mostly Bant, to be honest) is a fairly common sight here. Most of the time we don't get multiple in one game, but most games have one deck with it. But those of us not running Prophet generally centralize around killing it with fire, reanimating it, stealing it, copying it, etc. If I can, I try to exile it, because everyone else just wants to use it and not necessarily get rid of it permanently.
I don't know if it is ban worthy, but it's incredibly annoying.
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[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
LD is another form of countering spells. Also, it's possible to have friends and play LD. I really wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who whined about it. Better off without them.
Stax decks tend to wear thin when you play them repeatedly. I have a Nath Stax and Ghave Stax deck.
I'd say DEN is harder to remove, because it has built in protection. Ping it for lethal? Flicker it. Ping it in response? Put another flicker on the stack.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
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Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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