Ok, technically your right cards like decree and obliterate are not exactly the same as Worldfire. Functionally they do the same thing.
Nope, they don't set your life to 1. They don't hit enchantments and planeswalkers. Obliterate doesn't even nuke hand and GY. So they aren't functionally the same at all.
Worldfire was also destined to be banned the moment it was spoiled, same as Griselbrand.
I think the format would be fine with worldfire in it, and it would shrink the ban list if it were removed. I can see the reasons for banning it, but I feel like it is not necessary to ban it.
I think the format would be fine with worldfire in it, and it would shrink the ban list if it were removed. I can see the reasons for banning it, but I feel like it is not necessary to ban it.
I don't know...I feel like to many decks with red would become "Play low CMC commander. Ramp into worldfire + commander mana ASAP. Cast commander."
A ton of Grixis decks and RBG decks would definitely run this strategy.
For instance, many Tetsuo Umezawa will become nothing but mana rocks, tutors, counters, card draw and Worldfire. It wouldn't be surprising to see a deck like thus consistently go off by turn 6. Add in Ad Nauseam for even more brokenness.
I think the format would be fine with worldfire in it, and it would shrink the ban list if it were removed. I can see the reasons for banning it, but I feel like it is not necessary to ban it.
I personally feel the opposite and this is exactly the type of card that I think needs to be banned as soon as possible. I don't think the banned list is big enough so that's not a selling point for me to remove something and banning Worldfire sends a clear message that cards that have a similar effect (basically just Sway of the Stars) have no place in the format.*
Power level wise it's a joke but sending the message is important.
*EDIT: To clarify a little bit the message is saying "hey you know that Decree of Annihilation you're about to put in your deck? You might want to ask your playgroup first because this similar card is banned".
Ok, so for the sake of argument, what other "I win" cards are there that once they resolve there is no way to stop that player from winning? All I can think of is Coalition Victory. Tooth and Nail requires activated creatures, so you have time to respond. Hermit Druid still has times when you can respond, and IMO when you build the entire deck around one card in the deck, its hardly a one card combo. The closest legal thing I can think of is Niv/Curiosity, but even that requires an Eldrazi and discard outlet so you don't deck yourself.
Ok, so for the sake of argument, what other "I win" cards are there that once they resolve there is no way to stop that player from winning? All I can think of is Coalition Victory. Tooth and Nail requires activated creatures, so you have time to respond. Hermit Druid still has times when you can respond, and IMO when you build the entire deck around one card in the deck, its hardly a one card combo. The closest legal thing I can think of is Niv/Curiosity, but even that requires an Eldrazi and discard outlet so you don't deck yourself.
Omniscience comes immediately to mind. Honestly, Coalition Victory is incredibly clunky and I doubt anyone in our group, even those with five-colour decks, would use it with Omnniscience and Tooth & Nail both much quicker to use and both ending the game immediately without the need for prerequisite cards.
Omni doesn't see a huge amount of play around here, but it is still something you need to be aware of. It's usually the first target for an Academy Rector or Jhoira or a Dream Halls (Off Jhoira) and so on. I mean, if they want to unban Coalition Victory and even Biorhythm...meh. There are more efficient ways of winning at the moment.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
everyone is on topdeck mode, with the exception that the zo-zu player would have their commander out, everyone would be at one life, AND, outside of a magical christmas parallel universe scenario, everything drawn would be a dead-draw (since zo-zu is an Ankh of Mishra on a stick).
i mean thats a very specific example of why worldfire should stay banned.
and even if players try to play it 'fairly', it gets worse. because what that means is that every political intrigue (so to speak), every combat step, every spell that was slung and graveyards nuked and whatnot, they all would then amount to nothing. the win is decided purely on topdeck mode. its a bit like winning by ramping out on turn 3 Felidar Sovereign win. very anti-climatic, and at least for me, it'd feel like i'd just wasted the last hour or however long that game was.
thats why worldfire is banned, because it almost always causes the kinda grief that is worse than watching someone Wake of Destruction your mono-green deck off the table.
edit: biorhythm really shouldn't be unbanned. certain strategies in edh means that biorhythm can be a 'destroy target player' type spell.
and omniscience really really ISNT that bad. it allows shenanigans and enables 'em, but really. i mean you need at least 2 or 3 other pieces before you can combo off. and unlike the worldfire-zo-zu combo, chances are that only 1 of the 2 or 3 other pieces are found in the command zone.
(finally), coalition victory is also a bit like biorhythm in a way. the ONLY way to deal with it is counters, or very specific spot removal at instant speeds. usually, you'd need to nail at least 2 or 3 enchantments or creatures, or nuke a couple of lands. these kindsa insta-wins would really make people feel like they had just wasted hours of their life.
Ok, so for the sake of argument, what other "I win" cards are there that once they resolve there is no way to stop that player from winning? All I can think of is Coalition Victory. Tooth and Nail requires activated creatures, so you have time to respond. Hermit Druid still has times when you can respond, and IMO when you build the entire deck around one card in the deck, its hardly a one card combo. The closest legal thing I can think of is Niv/Curiosity, but even that requires an Eldrazi and discard outlet so you don't deck yourself.
I brought up hermit druid as being a mcuh more scary 1-card combo from a competitive stand-point. The whole deck is built for the combo, but hermit druid by itself is much more scary than worldfire + commander.
You can respond to coalition victory by killing a creature, can't you? So it's probably the same strength as tooth and nail, but even then, you need the lands and your commander in play to use it, whereas you just need 9 mana for tooth and nail. You could still argue that lightning greaves could be a problem, but then it is requiring another piece for the combo.
I actually don't know what other cards there are that end the game, but I didn't try to bring any up, so I'll leave that to other people.
Omniscience comes immediately to mind. Honestly, Coalition Victory is incredibly clunky and I doubt anyone in our group, even those with five-colour decks, would use it with Omnniscience and Tooth & Nail both much quicker to use and both ending the game immediately without the need for prerequisite cards.
Omni doesn't see a huge amount of play around here, but it is still something you need to be aware of. It's usually the first target for an Academy Rector or Jhoira or a Dream Halls (Off Jhoira) and so on. I mean, if they want to unban Coalition Victory and even Biorhythm...meh. There are more efficient ways of winning at the moment.
Omniscience doesn't win you the game. In fact, it doesn't do anything on its own. Yes, it puts you at a huge advantage that probably should win you the game, but that's not the same. And what's so clunky about CV that you wouldn't want to play it? You've got a 5c creature sitting in your command zone, and getting all five basic land types out isn't hard (shocks are the easiest). You cast it, and if it resolves, you win.
Ok, so for the sake of argument, what other "I win" cards are there that once they resolve there is no way to stop that player from winning? All I can think of is Coalition Victory. Tooth and Nail requires activated creatures, so you have time to respond. Hermit Druid still has times when you can respond, and IMO when you build the entire deck around one card in the deck, its hardly a one card combo. The closest legal thing I can think of is Niv/Curiosity, but even that requires an Eldrazi and discard outlet so you don't deck yourself.
Most of the other win the game cards require a trigger ability to resolve during the upkeep.
CV sort of has a bad rep for ending the game on resolution. You can respond to CV just like any other spell and a timely kill spell, bounce spell, or instant speed LD can see it do nothing on resolution. Plus there is always countermagic. You could always preemptively blank their dual lands with Blood Moon, requiring them to find basics, which aren't plentiful in 5 color decks.
Tooth and Nail can enable the same kind of endgame. It resolves and gets Kiki & Conscripts and now you've got the same outs. Somebody needs to have a kill spell, bounce spell, or fog or preemptively have a Torpor Orb out. Thats only 1 combo that T&N enables, there is also Mikeaus and Triskelion which would require removal, bounce, or a way to exile the graveyard to stop.
I don't think we'll see Tooth and Nail banned. There exist social pressures which make players not want to use the card to aggressively combo out with it. When I see it resolve, it tends to fetch things that will put the game out of reach, but not end it immediately; like Elesh Norn and green Khemal or 2 Eldrazi.
I think the most likely candidates for banning are cards that net you a big advantage, but you don't feel like your being mean while doing it. Prophet of Kruphix comes to mind, you get a big advantage from it that will snowball into a win but it doesn't blatantly take the bottom out of the room the way T&N for an infinite combo does.
Omniscience comes immediately to mind. Honestly, Coalition Victory is incredibly clunky and I doubt anyone in our group, even those with five-colour decks, would use it with Omnniscience and Tooth & Nail both much quicker to use and both ending the game immediately without the need for prerequisite cards.
Omni doesn't see a huge amount of play around here, but it is still something you need to be aware of. It's usually the first target for an Academy Rector or Jhoira or a Dream Halls (Off Jhoira) and so on. I mean, if they want to unban Coalition Victory and even Biorhythm...meh. There are more efficient ways of winning at the moment.
Omniscience doesn't win you the game. In fact, it doesn't do anything on its own. Yes, it puts you at a huge advantage that probably should win you the game, but that's not the same. And what's so clunky about CV that you wouldn't want to play it? You've got a 5c creature sitting in your command zone, and getting all five basic land types out isn't hard (shocks are the easiest). You cast it, and if it resolves, you win.
It's clunky because you either need three dual lands (Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains,Swamp) and likely another two lands to go with those and your commander and the Coalition Victory itself, so essentially...a seven-card combo? Five lands + one commander + one spell. And you need five colours. You can just use Tooth & Nail in two to three colours, blinking Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator and/or Rune-scarred Demon for infinite mana or tutors instead. To be honest, if you want to be "safe" you'll also need FOrce of Will backup on Coalition Victory too (or any other combo, to be fair.)
I'd just rather use Tooth & Nail, which costs only two coloured mana and fetches your combo, than CV. I certainly do see your point of view here, and I'm sure CV would see plenty of play as well, but it sure comes off as more "fun" than T&N or Omni.
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I think this is the main problem with some of the cards on the ban list. Basically, Coalition Victory is banned because it has only one use - win the game when it resolves (or fail, which is completely possible). Tooth and Nail is literally the same thing (when played to combo), except since people can "play nice" with it, it's magically okay for the format. Same thing goes for cheap tutors and fast mana.
I think this is the main problem with some of the cards on the ban list. Basically, Coalition Victory is banned because it has only one use - win the game when it resolves (or fail, which is completely possible). Tooth and Nail is literally the same thing (when played to combo), except since people can "play nice" with it, it's magically okay for the format.
There is also a counter example to this argument. Painter's Servant and Panoptic Mirror are both banned. The cards enable a handful of abusive combos, but they have many fair use cases.
I personally think that Worldfire would be okay if it didn't also cause everyone to lose their hand as well. I think that exiling pretty much everything makes it significantly more lame; its not like any player can really play around it by holding lands or other resources back. I think its just a poorly designed card that I'm glad is not in the environment.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
I personally think that Worldfire would be okay if it didn't also cause everyone to lose their hand as well. I think that exiling pretty much everything makes it significantly more lame; its not like any player can really play around it by holding lands or other resources back. I think its just a poorly designed card that I'm glad is not in the environment.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam in a normal deck do not win games. They provide value. The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned. (In my opinion, of course.)
I personally think that Worldfire would be okay if it didn't also cause everyone to lose their hand as well. I think that exiling pretty much everything makes it significantly more lame; its not like any player can really play around it by holding lands or other resources back. I think its just a poorly designed card that I'm glad is not in the environment.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam in a normal deck do not win games. They provide value. The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned. (In my opinion, of course.)
No if you play combo and your curve does not suck you just add it and get a 5 mana instant win deck really does not in anyway need to be built around it when you get 40 life and untap into a minimum of 6 mana with A 20+ card grip...
I personally think that Worldfire would be okay if it didn't also cause everyone to lose their hand as well. I think that exiling pretty much everything makes it significantly more lame; its not like any player can really play around it by holding lands or other resources back. I think its just a poorly designed card that I'm glad is not in the environment.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam in a normal deck do not win games. They provide value. The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned. (In my opinion, of course.)
And I would think that the RC would agree with that opinion. I am still not a very big fan of those cards however... playing against a "fair" Ad Nauseam feels like I'm playing Vintage and the opponent just resolved Yawgmoth's Bargain. The card is just unredeemable in my opinion. Tooth and Nail is more boring and predictable than anything else, but unlike the other two that have very strict deckbuilding constraints in order to "break" them it requires only that you have an infinite combo using 2 creatures somewhere in your 99.
@ Mox - Define "your curve does not suck". Because most decks on the forums have an average cmc of anywhere from 2.5-4. So even if you say 3cmc, that's still only 14 nonland cards you can draw before you die. Doesn't sound very instant win to me.
@ Forgotten One - I'm not a fan of ANT or Druid.dec either. I think Druid in a dredge deck with basics, and despite what Mox believes, I don't see how a typical multiplayer deck is going to dig very deep with Ad Nauseam. They're both strong cards, but not broken to the point where they need to be banned. And I agree that it's easier to break T&N because as you said, you just need to have DEN/Palinchron, Mike/Trike, etc. in the deck. I wouldn't shed a tear if it got banned, but I also think that self-regulation is a big part of the format and this card is a posterchild for it.
I think this is the main problem with some of the cards on the ban list. Basically, Coalition Victory is banned because it has only one use - win the game when it resolves (or fail, which is completely possible). Tooth and Nail is literally the same thing (when played to combo), except since people can "play nice" with it, it's magically okay for the format.
There is also a counter example to this argument. Painter's Servant and Panoptic Mirror are both banned. The cards enable a handful of abusive combos, but they have many fair use cases.
And this is why people say the ban list is inconsistent (or at least one of the reasons). If anything, the counterexamples you have are just proof of inconsistency.
I personally think that Worldfire would be okay if it didn't also cause everyone to lose their hand as well. I think that exiling pretty much everything makes it significantly more lame; its not like any player can really play around it by holding lands or other resources back. I think its just a poorly designed card that I'm glad is not in the environment.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam in a normal deck do not win games. They provide value. The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned. (In my opinion, of course.)
Cryogen, why wouldn't this "The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned" apply to unbanning Worldfire. If you want to allow people to make decks like Druid/ANT why can't I play Worldfire.
Cryogen, why wouldn't this "The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned" apply to unbanning Worldfire. If you want to allow people to make decks like Druid/ANT why can't I play Worldfire.
Hermit Druid can be used fairly. (I run him in dredge with like 10 basics) Ad Nauseam...eh...haven't seen it used fairly but it could I guess. As for Worldfire? There is no use for Worldfire that does not interact poorly with the format. It's a poorly designed card and will likely never come off the ban list.
Hermit Druid can be used fairly. (I run him in dredge with like 10 basics) Ad Nauseam...eh...haven't seen it used fairly but it could I guess. As for Worldfire? There is no use for Worldfire that does not interact poorly with the format. It's a poorly designed card and will likely never come off the ban list.
Truth. The closest WF can come to being "played fairly" is by not floating mana to cast your commander afterwards. In which case games become coin flips as to who can hit land and ways to deal damage the fastest.
When WF resolves it's either a win for the caster that abuses the mechanics of the format or it stops being a game and becomes a roll of the dice. Which is exactly why it is banned.
Cryogen, why wouldn't this "The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned" apply to unbanning Worldfire. If you want to allow people to make decks like Druid/ANT why can't I play Worldfire.
Hermit Druid can be used fairly. (I run him in dredge with like 10 basics) Ad Nauseam...eh...haven't seen it used fairly but it could I guess. As for Worldfire? There is no use for Worldfire that does not interact poorly with the format. It's a poorly designed card and will likely never come off the ban list.
Anything on the banlist "CAN" be used fairly. Hell balance can be used "FAIRLY" but that doesn't mean that it ever is.
The general intention of use of a card is also something to be considered. Hermit Druid is more likely to be used for fair things by a normal user who doesn't go and look up a HD combo decklist than it is to be used unfairly due to the obscurity of his competitive combo nature. I think of the ones you mentioned, Painter's Servant is likely the one most likely to be used fairly as there are only a few really bad things that combo with it. I wouldn't horribly mind if the servant were to wander off the list but I also dont really care that much if he stays on it either. Servant is only useable in a select few decks and there are some decks that he is a very flavorful add in such as a Teysa 1.0 list. I think it would be nice to see him back in the pool but dont overly care either way.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
At the store i play at we simply don't allow combos. If you happen to do a crazy rare play play that is fine. Most decks might run one or 2 tutors like diabolic revelation or diabolic tutor, but not Demonic Tutor cause it is op and every in the group can't afford it.
Basically play for fun, because EDH is a fun format so don't be a jerk otherwise we scoop and start playing a new game with out you.
Cryogen, why wouldn't this "The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned" apply to unbanning Worldfire. If you want to allow people to make decks like Druid/ANT why can't I play Worldfire.
Hermit Druid can be used fairly. (I run him in dredge with like 10 basics) Ad Nauseam...eh...haven't seen it used fairly but it could I guess. As for Worldfire? There is no use for Worldfire that does not interact poorly with the format. It's a poorly designed card and will likely never come off the ban list.
Hermit Druid or ANT decks are decks that use almost every slot to finding, protecting, or enabling the one wincon in the deck and go off before anyone can react. The decks are built around the card. Compare that to Worldfire. Worldfire is one card that literally every red or R/x deck as a random wincon. It doesn't have yo have at synergy with the rest of the deck, because if you can cast it while floating enough mana to recast your general, you will almost assuredly win the game (assuming your general isn't Norin).
I think the format would be fine with worldfire in it, and it would shrink the ban list if it were removed. I can see the reasons for banning it, but I feel like it is not necessary to ban it.
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I don't know...I feel like to many decks with red would become "Play low CMC commander. Ramp into worldfire + commander mana ASAP. Cast commander."
A ton of Grixis decks and RBG decks would definitely run this strategy.
For instance, many Tetsuo Umezawa will become nothing but mana rocks, tutors, counters, card draw and Worldfire. It wouldn't be surprising to see a deck like thus consistently go off by turn 6. Add in Ad Nauseam for even more brokenness.
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I personally feel the opposite and this is exactly the type of card that I think needs to be banned as soon as possible. I don't think the banned list is big enough so that's not a selling point for me to remove something and banning Worldfire sends a clear message that cards that have a similar effect (basically just Sway of the Stars) have no place in the format.*
Power level wise it's a joke but sending the message is important.
*EDIT: To clarify a little bit the message is saying "hey you know that Decree of Annihilation you're about to put in your deck? You might want to ask your playgroup first because this similar card is banned".
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Omniscience comes immediately to mind. Honestly, Coalition Victory is incredibly clunky and I doubt anyone in our group, even those with five-colour decks, would use it with Omnniscience and Tooth & Nail both much quicker to use and both ending the game immediately without the need for prerequisite cards.
Omni doesn't see a huge amount of play around here, but it is still something you need to be aware of. It's usually the first target for an Academy Rector or Jhoira or a Dream Halls (Off Jhoira) and so on. I mean, if they want to unban Coalition Victory and even Biorhythm...meh. There are more efficient ways of winning at the moment.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
everyone is on topdeck mode, with the exception that the zo-zu player would have their commander out, everyone would be at one life, AND, outside of a magical christmas parallel universe scenario, everything drawn would be a dead-draw (since zo-zu is an Ankh of Mishra on a stick).
i mean thats a very specific example of why worldfire should stay banned.
and even if players try to play it 'fairly', it gets worse. because what that means is that every political intrigue (so to speak), every combat step, every spell that was slung and graveyards nuked and whatnot, they all would then amount to nothing. the win is decided purely on topdeck mode. its a bit like winning by ramping out on turn 3 Felidar Sovereign win. very anti-climatic, and at least for me, it'd feel like i'd just wasted the last hour or however long that game was.
thats why worldfire is banned, because it almost always causes the kinda grief that is worse than watching someone Wake of Destruction your mono-green deck off the table.
edit: biorhythm really shouldn't be unbanned. certain strategies in edh means that biorhythm can be a 'destroy target player' type spell.
and omniscience really really ISNT that bad. it allows shenanigans and enables 'em, but really. i mean you need at least 2 or 3 other pieces before you can combo off. and unlike the worldfire-zo-zu combo, chances are that only 1 of the 2 or 3 other pieces are found in the command zone.
(finally), coalition victory is also a bit like biorhythm in a way. the ONLY way to deal with it is counters, or very specific spot removal at instant speeds. usually, you'd need to nail at least 2 or 3 enchantments or creatures, or nuke a couple of lands. these kindsa insta-wins would really make people feel like they had just wasted hours of their life.
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I brought up hermit druid as being a mcuh more scary 1-card combo from a competitive stand-point. The whole deck is built for the combo, but hermit druid by itself is much more scary than worldfire + commander.
You can respond to coalition victory by killing a creature, can't you? So it's probably the same strength as tooth and nail, but even then, you need the lands and your commander in play to use it, whereas you just need 9 mana for tooth and nail. You could still argue that lightning greaves could be a problem, but then it is requiring another piece for the combo.
I actually don't know what other cards there are that end the game, but I didn't try to bring any up, so I'll leave that to other people.
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Omniscience doesn't win you the game. In fact, it doesn't do anything on its own. Yes, it puts you at a huge advantage that probably should win you the game, but that's not the same. And what's so clunky about CV that you wouldn't want to play it? You've got a 5c creature sitting in your command zone, and getting all five basic land types out isn't hard (shocks are the easiest). You cast it, and if it resolves, you win.
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Most of the other win the game cards require a trigger ability to resolve during the upkeep.
CV sort of has a bad rep for ending the game on resolution. You can respond to CV just like any other spell and a timely kill spell, bounce spell, or instant speed LD can see it do nothing on resolution. Plus there is always countermagic. You could always preemptively blank their dual lands with Blood Moon, requiring them to find basics, which aren't plentiful in 5 color decks.
Tooth and Nail can enable the same kind of endgame. It resolves and gets Kiki & Conscripts and now you've got the same outs. Somebody needs to have a kill spell, bounce spell, or fog or preemptively have a Torpor Orb out. Thats only 1 combo that T&N enables, there is also Mikeaus and Triskelion which would require removal, bounce, or a way to exile the graveyard to stop.
I don't think we'll see Tooth and Nail banned. There exist social pressures which make players not want to use the card to aggressively combo out with it. When I see it resolve, it tends to fetch things that will put the game out of reach, but not end it immediately; like Elesh Norn and green Khemal or 2 Eldrazi.
I think the most likely candidates for banning are cards that net you a big advantage, but you don't feel like your being mean while doing it. Prophet of Kruphix comes to mind, you get a big advantage from it that will snowball into a win but it doesn't blatantly take the bottom out of the room the way T&N for an infinite combo does.
It's clunky because you either need three dual lands (Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains,Swamp) and likely another two lands to go with those and your commander and the Coalition Victory itself, so essentially...a seven-card combo? Five lands + one commander + one spell. And you need five colours. You can just use Tooth & Nail in two to three colours, blinking Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator and/or Rune-scarred Demon for infinite mana or tutors instead. To be honest, if you want to be "safe" you'll also need FOrce of Will backup on Coalition Victory too (or any other combo, to be fair.)
I'd just rather use Tooth & Nail, which costs only two coloured mana and fetches your combo, than CV. I certainly do see your point of view here, and I'm sure CV would see plenty of play as well, but it sure comes off as more "fun" than T&N or Omni.
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There is also a counter example to this argument. Painter's Servant and Panoptic Mirror are both banned. The cards enable a handful of abusive combos, but they have many fair use cases.
Other people talk about wanting to ban "single-card combos" such as Tooth and Nail all the time. I would also put Ad Nauseam and Hermit Druid in the same category, with the obvious difference being mana cost. I would not mind seeing any or all of these cards banned. Its too easy to just draw into that one card and just win with no thought other than "do I have enough mana?" and "do I need to play around a counterspell?"
Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam in a normal deck do not win games. They provide value. The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned. (In my opinion, of course.)
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No if you play combo and your curve does not suck you just add it and get a 5 mana instant win deck really does not in anyway need to be built around it when you get 40 life and untap into a minimum of 6 mana with A 20+ card grip...
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
And I would think that the RC would agree with that opinion. I am still not a very big fan of those cards however... playing against a "fair" Ad Nauseam feels like I'm playing Vintage and the opponent just resolved Yawgmoth's Bargain. The card is just unredeemable in my opinion. Tooth and Nail is more boring and predictable than anything else, but unlike the other two that have very strict deckbuilding constraints in order to "break" them it requires only that you have an infinite combo using 2 creatures somewhere in your 99.
@ Forgotten One - I'm not a fan of ANT or Druid.dec either. I think Druid in a dredge deck with basics, and despite what Mox believes, I don't see how a typical multiplayer deck is going to dig very deep with Ad Nauseam. They're both strong cards, but not broken to the point where they need to be banned. And I agree that it's easier to break T&N because as you said, you just need to have DEN/Palinchron, Mike/Trike, etc. in the deck. I wouldn't shed a tear if it got banned, but I also think that self-regulation is a big part of the format and this card is a posterchild for it.
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And this is why people say the ban list is inconsistent (or at least one of the reasons). If anything, the counterexamples you have are just proof of inconsistency.
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BR
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
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Cryogen, why wouldn't this "The second you as a deck-builder set out to build Hermit Druid/ANT.dec, you have decided to play a completely different game of Commander than most players, and only a heavy-handed ban list will stop you. That is why those two cards are not banned" apply to unbanning Worldfire. If you want to allow people to make decks like Druid/ANT why can't I play Worldfire.
Hermit Druid can be used fairly. (I run him in dredge with like 10 basics) Ad Nauseam...eh...haven't seen it used fairly but it could I guess. As for Worldfire? There is no use for Worldfire that does not interact poorly with the format. It's a poorly designed card and will likely never come off the ban list.
Truth. The closest WF can come to being "played fairly" is by not floating mana to cast your commander afterwards. In which case games become coin flips as to who can hit land and ways to deal damage the fastest.
When WF resolves it's either a win for the caster that abuses the mechanics of the format or it stops being a game and becomes a roll of the dice. Which is exactly why it is banned.
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Painter's Servant, Panoptic Mirror, Protean Hulk, and Gifts Ungiven can all be used fairly. Why are they on the ban list then?
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Duel Commander
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BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
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BR
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
Anything on the banlist "CAN" be used fairly. Hell balance can be used "FAIRLY" but that doesn't mean that it ever is.
The general intention of use of a card is also something to be considered. Hermit Druid is more likely to be used for fair things by a normal user who doesn't go and look up a HD combo decklist than it is to be used unfairly due to the obscurity of his competitive combo nature. I think of the ones you mentioned, Painter's Servant is likely the one most likely to be used fairly as there are only a few really bad things that combo with it. I wouldn't horribly mind if the servant were to wander off the list but I also dont really care that much if he stays on it either. Servant is only useable in a select few decks and there are some decks that he is a very flavorful add in such as a Teysa 1.0 list. I think it would be nice to see him back in the pool but dont overly care either way.
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Hermit Druid or ANT decks are decks that use almost every slot to finding, protecting, or enabling the one wincon in the deck and go off before anyone can react. The decks are built around the card. Compare that to Worldfire. Worldfire is one card that literally every red or R/x deck as a random wincon. It doesn't have yo have at synergy with the rest of the deck, because if you can cast it while floating enough mana to recast your general, you will almost assuredly win the game (assuming your general isn't Norin).
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