Is it just me or did wotc knock it out of the park with the non-leading legends? Xatcha, arixmethes, varchild, and Yuriko are easily the coolest commanders imo. The 3 color ones range from fine to meh by comparison.
Or are we just disappointed by the themes (which most of those face-colored legends are tied to) while these others allowed more creative freedom? They all scream DIFFERENT!
Definitely a first set of Commander products in a few years that manages to have most new cards be something along the lines of 'ooh, I kinda want to see if I can find a home for that'.
Couple of new commanders for me too: Gyrus, Waker of Corpses - I want to see where I can go with it, though it's obviously not directly 'lands-matter' (whatever, I have Damia knocking that theme to hell and back already). Taking my old 'Jund big mana' and knocking in some extras for the sweet hydra to abuse. Varina, Lich Queen - Been pondering about a zombie deck for a long while, my Esper deck was a bit too linear... sort of solving both problems. Pure tribal - all creatures must be zombies, and all non-creature cards must mention zombies in their text. So still linear-ish, but at least not a complete one-trick... zombie?
Got the full set, all four decks, for us. (Caveat: between me and my wife, we have 40-ish decks. It's rather likely there's a home for almost all new prints.)
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
By just seeing the themes, i decided to have bant (at last i get to build enchantress) and jund and my buddy izzet and esper. Thank god he accepted that we tear apart jund and esper and pick singles we like from each deck. Still I don't know if it's worth the price though.
Do you guys think Xantcha has any buisness being a discard general? Something at helm of a lot of discard effects and Liliana's Caress effects? Or is that just painting a massive target on your head for the whole table and you're never going to win. Shrieking Affliction?
Or are we just disappointed by the themes (which most of those face-colored legends are tied to) while these others allowed more creative freedom? They all scream DIFFERENT!
thats probably true, the tri-color commanders are mostly pretty obvious builds. Although I think less so than some previous sets (last years was especially bad).
Is it just me or did wotc knock it out of the park with the non-leading legends? Xatcha, arixmethes, varchild, and Yuriko are easily the coolest commanders imo. The 3 color ones range from fine to meh by comparison.
Or are we just disappointed by the themes (which most of those face-colored legends are tied to) while these others allowed more creative freedom? They all scream DIFFERENT!
I think both are true. One of the articles on the DailyMTG site said they had designed the non-leading legends specifically to inspire decks/builds of their own. Which is cool for its own sake, but at the same time it makes these decks seem pretty disjointed and awkward. Yuriko at least functions in the deck she's in, but what the heck is Varchild doing in the Izzet artifact deck? This is particularly problematic when the decks themselves are lacking so many obvious cards that wouldn't have broken the bank and would have made them a lot more interesting to play and to play against. Someone on another thread characterized them as one-dimensional, and I think that's almost being too kind. I'm not sure the Jund deck even qualifies as one-dimensional.
So I was fully expecting to see some X spells in the jund list, most likely Lavalanche (which is in there).
But that's not a "Lands Matter" decklist, that's a Big Mana decklist. There's a huge difference.
The only land that I can look at in that list and think "Yeah, I'd want to pull that back into the battlefield over and over again" is Bojuka Bog, with Myriad Landscape being a close second.
Why does the Land Matters deck not have a new land with an effect? Why don't they have the creature that etbs as a land (Arixmethes)? Why doesn't it have any repeatable way to sacrifice lands in order to pull them back out again in the graveyard colors? Why is only the commander on the front of the box on theme?
There is so much they could have done with this concept (a few more Retrace cards (Monstrify), "Sac Lands" (Sylvan Safekeeper), more ETB land cards/sac lands (Ebon Stronghold as a low power card), a little bit of Dredge support (Drown in Filth)). Heck, Drown in Filth, Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant, Borborygmos Enraged, and other cards like that would have made me actually have to worry about what lands were where and would have made for a very interesting precon.
As it is, this is just a stupid battlecruiser ramp deck that someone could easily put together by themselves. I'm not even upset by the value, just how shoddily the deck is constructed according to the theme.
Do you guys think Xantcha has any buisness being a discard general? Something at helm of a lot of discard effects and Liliana's Caress effects? Or is that just painting a massive target on your head for the whole table and you're never going to win. Shrieking Affliction?
Seems really contradictory in terms of strategy - whats the point in making everyone discard if you're going to give them access to card draw?
I think there is enough I want from the Izzet deck to justify buying it.
I can probably survive in just buying singles, but I think i will be grabbing all 4 decks. While Jund does not offer a lot in terms of dissection value I may as well grab it. I mean i am grabbing the other three anyway for dissection, And Jun will have Xantcha.
I am really struggling with whether or not to buy all four decks and break them down, or whether to just buy singles. Outside the completely new cards, most of which I want and several which I want quite a bit, plus a few more copies of Command Tower there are maybe 10 cards total I really need spread across all of the other decks, plus the tokens. At the moment I am most excited about the lieutenant cards, several copies of which will slot easily into several of my existing decks and make them run more smoothly. Seriously, is there a blue deck outside of competitive EDH that isn't going to want to run the blue one? Free card draw each turn strapped onto a 2/2 flyer seems like a pretty good thing for an awful lot of decks, and the white one is a blessing for all sorts of aggro strategies. I practically giggled when I saw that one spoiled and thought about what that brings to the table for Rhys and Gahiji.
Do you guys think Xantcha has any buisness being a discard general? Something at helm of a lot of discard effects and Liliana's Caress effects? Or is that just painting a massive target on your head for the whole table and you're never going to win. Shrieking Affliction?
Seems really contradictory in terms of strategy - whats the point in making everyone discard if you're going to give them access to card draw?
I guess it would make it a bigger inticiment for opponents to use her ability.
Do you guys think Xantcha has any buisness being a discard general? Something at helm of a lot of discard effects and Liliana's Caress effects? Or is that just painting a massive target on your head for the whole table and you're never going to win. Shrieking Affliction?
Seems really contradictory in terms of strategy - whats the point in making everyone discard if you're going to give them access to card draw?
To force them into using her ability and kill an opponent faster.
Sheldon’s probably right that these slightly-themed, randomly-bomby decks play well together. Kinda gives it a feel of when I started playing, where you throw a deck together with what you have and then worry about the serious pieces later.
Which seems like the right direction, even if it doesn’t cater to us with veteran tastes.
Also, Treasure Nabber seems the most auto-include here: Unless you have some crazy land-ramp/hella-green meta, any red deck could get some mileage out of this....leading me to think it will one of the more expensive cards.
It's a shame that the decks just feel...weak. I get that they're probably well matched but still, they could've each had a bit more oomph. And those landbases...would it have hurt to put in a Cascade Bluffs in Saheeli and a smattering of City of Brass, Mana Confluence or Reflecting Pool among the others?
I don't need a lot of stuff from this set, and none of the new generals interest me enough for a deck. Let's see...
Boreas Charger - I don't really have a deck for it, but I might want to have one on hand if I ever go mono-W, Boros or Azorius again. Loyal Drake - Cute early game play, will draw me some cards while being a flying nuisance. Zegana it is. Loyal Apprentice - Chandra might appreciate this, a way to churn out flying blockers on a cheap body. Might be too vulnerable tho given how boardwipe heavy the deck is. Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle - Zegana likes fatties, even if they take work to become fatties. It's acceptable mid-tier ramp at any case. Isolated Watchtower - Being what it is, Chandra tends to be low on lands. This will help.
Yea, not a lot I need.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
This is what i think I will be orderering, plus the Esper Deck
More excited to play these against one another for fun. Pity the guy who gets Jund fatties...
One of the articles on the DailyMTG site said they had designed the non-leading legends specifically to inspire decks/builds of their own. Which is cool for its own sake, but at the same time it makes these decks seem pretty disjointed and awkward.
How can they said that and have the two enchantress legendaries being so similar?
I suspect in that deck they were referring to Arixmethes. In each case they were referring to a legendary who could not helm the deck it came in.
Personally I'm a bit disappointed in how the decks shaped out to be, but in the least it will keep my wallet a bit happier since it means I won't be building a new one. Am picking up a few cards though:
Treasure Nabber - Will be a fun addition to my Kari Zev deck.
Loyal Guardian - Will be testing this out but still deciding on which deck. Turntimber Sower - Not sure if it will work well enough in my budget lands deck, but will see.
I've posted elsewhere about not feeling compelled to buy these, but I will look at singles. Some that come to mind are: Treasure Nabber: Breya can sac what it steels and it seems like a good card to have around in any case. Could also be a source of ramp for Kalemne. Echo Storm might be strong in Breya. Estrid's Invocation looks useful for copying pillow fort effects in Oloro. Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice might go in Breya. VS Kurkesh, copying triggered abilities is big but so is tapping and paying an extra mana.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
One of the articles on the DailyMTG site said they had designed the non-leading legends specifically to inspire decks/builds of their own. Which is cool for its own sake, but at the same time it makes these decks seem pretty disjointed and awkward.
How can they said that and have the two enchantress legendaries being so similar?
Are they really that similar? Tuvasa the Sunlit encourages playing at least one enchantment a turn, and getting a lot of them onto the battlefield and voltroning Tuvasa themselves. Kestia, the Cultivator, on the other hand, encourages putting enchantments on multiple creatures, or running enchantment creatures, and attacking with them.
She's at $18 and climbing on TCG Player, with some sites going as high as $30. I don't think she'll hold that price after release, but her pre-release prices are only going to climb.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
She's at $18 and climbing on TCG Player, with some sites going as high as $30. I don't think she'll hold that price after release, but her pre-release prices are only going to climb.
being thirst ninja printed since 2012. That can properly helm all other ninjas. Has the ninjitsu ability...
The could have jusg errated ninjitsu to be from hand or command zone.
Arixmethes is nice. And I may toss him in mimeoplasm. (If I don't build a deck with him that is)
Do you guys think Xantcha has any buisness being a discard general? Something at helm of a lot of discard effects and Liliana's Caress effects? Or is that just painting a massive target on your head for the whole table and you're never going to win. Shrieking Affliction?
Seems really contradictory in terms of strategy - whats the point in making everyone discard if you're going to give them access to card draw?
I guess it would make it a bigger inticiment for opponents to use her ability.
I mean, your opponents that don't control her already have all the incentive they need: drawing cards while simultaneously harming an opponent.
Only the player controlling her has disincentive, and it's really not that much. People play cards like Erebos, Blood Fast, and Greed already.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
And for pumping
So i jsut suck at RFC lol
Couple of new commanders for me too:
Gyrus, Waker of Corpses - I want to see where I can go with it, though it's obviously not directly 'lands-matter' (whatever, I have Damia knocking that theme to hell and back already). Taking my old 'Jund big mana' and knocking in some extras for the sweet hydra to abuse.
Varina, Lich Queen - Been pondering about a zombie deck for a long while, my Esper deck was a bit too linear... sort of solving both problems. Pure tribal - all creatures must be zombies, and all non-creature cards must mention zombies in their text. So still linear-ish, but at least not a complete one-trick... zombie?
Got the full set, all four decks, for us. (Caveat: between me and my wife, we have 40-ish decks. It's rather likely there's a home for almost all new prints.)
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think both are true. One of the articles on the DailyMTG site said they had designed the non-leading legends specifically to inspire decks/builds of their own. Which is cool for its own sake, but at the same time it makes these decks seem pretty disjointed and awkward. Yuriko at least functions in the deck she's in, but what the heck is Varchild doing in the Izzet artifact deck? This is particularly problematic when the decks themselves are lacking so many obvious cards that wouldn't have broken the bank and would have made them a lot more interesting to play and to play against. Someone on another thread characterized them as one-dimensional, and I think that's almost being too kind. I'm not sure the Jund deck even qualifies as one-dimensional.
But that's not a "Lands Matter" decklist, that's a Big Mana decklist. There's a huge difference.
The only land that I can look at in that list and think "Yeah, I'd want to pull that back into the battlefield over and over again" is Bojuka Bog, with Myriad Landscape being a close second.
Why does the Land Matters deck not have a new land with an effect? Why don't they have the creature that etbs as a land (Arixmethes)? Why doesn't it have any repeatable way to sacrifice lands in order to pull them back out again in the graveyard colors? Why is only the commander on the front of the box on theme?
There is so much they could have done with this concept (a few more Retrace cards (Monstrify), "Sac Lands" (Sylvan Safekeeper), more ETB land cards/sac lands (Ebon Stronghold as a low power card), a little bit of Dredge support (Drown in Filth)). Heck, Drown in Filth, Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant, Borborygmos Enraged, and other cards like that would have made me actually have to worry about what lands were where and would have made for a very interesting precon.
As it is, this is just a stupid battlecruiser ramp deck that someone could easily put together by themselves. I'm not even upset by the value, just how shoddily the deck is constructed according to the theme.
I think this will be a singles round for me, sadly. I'll probably pick up Lord Windgrace, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, and Reality Scramble and that'll be it for me.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Seems really contradictory in terms of strategy - whats the point in making everyone discard if you're going to give them access to card draw?
Esper will have Yuriko, it is the only one that has both Blue and Black, And none are red and white. (Unless you meant Izzet which is RU))
I can probably survive in just buying singles, but I think i will be grabbing all 4 decks. While Jund does not offer a lot in terms of dissection value I may as well grab it. I mean i am grabbing the other three anyway for dissection, And Jun will have Xantcha.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I guess it would make it a bigger inticiment for opponents to use her ability.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Which seems like the right direction, even if it doesn’t cater to us with veteran tastes.
Also, Treasure Nabber seems the most auto-include here: Unless you have some crazy land-ramp/hella-green meta, any red deck could get some mileage out of this....leading me to think it will one of the more expensive cards.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I don't need a lot of stuff from this set, and none of the new generals interest me enough for a deck. Let's see...
Boreas Charger - I don't really have a deck for it, but I might want to have one on hand if I ever go mono-W, Boros or Azorius again.
Loyal Drake - Cute early game play, will draw me some cards while being a flying nuisance. Zegana it is.
Loyal Apprentice - Chandra might appreciate this, a way to churn out flying blockers on a cheap body. Might be too vulnerable tho given how boardwipe heavy the deck is.
Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle - Zegana likes fatties, even if they take work to become fatties. It's acceptable mid-tier ramp at any case.
Isolated Watchtower - Being what it is, Chandra tends to be low on lands. This will help.
Yea, not a lot I need.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
More excited to play these against one another for fun. Pity the guy who gets Jund fatties...
I suspect in that deck they were referring to Arixmethes. In each case they were referring to a legendary who could not helm the deck it came in.
Treasure Nabber - Will be a fun addition to my Kari Zev deck.
Loyal Guardian - Will be testing this out but still deciding on which deck.
Turntimber Sower - Not sure if it will work well enough in my budget lands deck, but will see.
Along with that I'm picking up the reprints of Avenger of Zendikar and Bear Umbra.
Treasure Nabber: Breya can sac what it steels and it seems like a good card to have around in any case. Could also be a source of ramp for Kalemne.
Echo Storm might be strong in Breya.
Estrid's Invocation looks useful for copying pillow fort effects in Oloro.
Tawnos, Urza's Apprentice might go in Breya. VS Kurkesh, copying triggered abilities is big but so is tapping and paying an extra mana.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
She's at $18 and climbing on TCG Player, with some sites going as high as $30. I don't think she'll hold that price after release, but her pre-release prices are only going to climb.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
The could have jusg errated ninjitsu to be from hand or command zone.
Arixmethes is nice. And I may toss him in mimeoplasm. (If I don't build a deck with him that is)
I am also building brudiclad.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Only the player controlling her has disincentive, and it's really not that much. People play cards like Erebos, Blood Fast, and Greed already.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)