A lot of interesting EDH cards in this set as a whole except, disappointingly for me, that dragon. I guess it's law that most dragons need to be standard finishers now?
Kind of makes sense in Ravnica, though. What's the odds Niv would allow any other dragon to exist if it was any conceivable threat to him?
Now that you say it, that card really breaks symmetries in decks that gives everyone cards, it can go more crazy with wheel effects like Windfall and Magus of the Wheel
Imagine Smothering Tithe during the Pros-Bloom standard.
Smothering Tithe seems like a decent ramp spell, with artifacts going to grave other silliness can ensue.
Me, im putting it next to Armageddon in Boros MLD.
But for more casual crowds, with Trading Post seems decent too. Add a Dross Scorpion and you got a bad draw engine.
Still the card Im most excited for is Growth Spiral, pick up 4x Foils of those.
Next would be Teysa 3.0. Another great Aristocrats commander or in the 99.
Teysa 3.0 will be going into my reaper king edh. It has panharmonicon for double vindicates and all its win cons are based off seeing things die, so win win.
Speaking of which... Deathreap ritual doesn't draw 2 with her out right?
Immediately started considering what I can do with Freyalise Elves by adding U with Vannifar. The only shame is that she can only be activated at sorcery speed so I can't use her to flash out Frilled Mystic(Best creature type by the way.)
Teysa 3.0 will be going into my reaper king edh. It has panharmonicon for double vindicates and all its win cons are based off seeing things die, so win win.
Speaking of which... Deathreap ritual doesn't draw 2 with her out right?
I don’t think so. Teysa Karlov specifically only works if the creature dying is what causes the ability to trigger, and in the case of Deathreap Ritual it is the beginning of the end step that causes the ability to trigger. I hope that the card rulings help clarify this since it is not really 100% clear.
Teysa 3.0 will be going into my reaper king edh. It has panharmonicon for double vindicates and all its win cons are based off seeing things die, so win win.
Speaking of which... Deathreap ritual doesn't draw 2 with her out right?
I don’t think so. Teysa Karlov specifically only works if the creature dying is what causes the ability to trigger, and in the case of Deathreap Ritual it is the beginning of the end step that causes the ability to trigger. I hope that the card rulings help clarify this since it is not really 100% clear.
This is correct. It is basically the same interaction as Panharmonicon and Ephara, God of the Polis. Dying (or entering with the latter example) is not the direct cause of the trigger. Instead, it is just a trigger that looks for whether a previous event has occurred.
While I've been maintaining both of my rakdos storm decks (typical aetherflux/tendrils/ignite piloted by rakdos the defiler and empty/haze of rage piloted by dragonlord kolaghan), the new Judith has me a bit annoyed.
The biggest issue I've had with these decks is that there isn't a very good spell-slinger style rakdos legendary. Judith would have been perfect for my empty the warrens deck had she not said non-token.
I may still give her a try. I could rework the deck to run some repeated graveyard shenanigans (gravecrawler/deathmantle/etc) and trade our the volcanic awakening and haze of rage stuff for bitter ordeal.
I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I think I'm like 90% disappointed and 10% marginally interested.
The new beat-stick rakdos although will be in with my original rakdos the defiler as a secondary commander, maybe for when I use the deck against multiple opponents instead of 1v1.
Of course with Nikya I will have to find a way to cheat things into play consitantly as just playing big creature can be boring. ither my creature will have to be interesting and synergize well, or i will have to ignore the centaur.
Would be better if NO ONE could play non creature spells.
Much Like Arcades, Vannifar is going to be the flavor of the month at my LGS.
Vannifar I actually find kind of boring. She's blatantly powerful, and much of the deck's setup has already been done because Birthing Pod is such a well known card. I'd rather have something that has a little bit known mystery to it, rather than just staple a pre-existing powerful card onto a powerful color combo.
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My List of Current Decks: -Modern- WMartyrProcB BBurnR -Commander-
Vannifar I actually find kind of boring. She's blatantly powerful, and much of the deck's setup has already been done because Birthing Pod is such a well known card. I'd rather have something that has a little bit known mystery to it, rather than just staple a pre-existing powerful card onto a powerful color combo.
I don't understand this. You have a choice when building a deck. You can chose to not build her with all the silly combos. My plan is to add Blue to my Freyalise deck and make Vannifar the leader of a UG elves deck. No crazy combos, just value. If you don't want to build a certain commander a certain way just don't. Toolbox commanders like this are practically unlimited in their customizability. Sure she is blatantly powerful but that's no reason for her to e boring.
Sure, but personally I still find it hard to have fun building non-broken versions of broken commanders. You garner the hate for playing it without the benefit, plus you know you've made a weak deck on purpose. I'd rather venture into unknown territory, than find a worse trail in an area that's already got a highway through it, if you'll pardon the stretched metaphor.
This is how I feel too. I am going to build it as a goodstuff deck with a bunch of cool blue and green cards I've never played before or haven't played in years.
What do you guys think of Theatre of Horrors? I want to like it but I just can't. I don't understand why they made it a red draw enchantment when they could have made it more like a Phyrexian arena where you may draw a card at the end of turn or something if someone lost life. If it didn't have black in the cost I woukd like it more. It really doesn't need black in the cost imo
What do you guys think of Theatre of Horrors? I want to like it but I just can't. I don't understand why they made it a red draw enchantment when they could have made it more like a Phyrexian arena where you may draw a card at the end of turn or something if someone lost life. If it didn't have black in the cost I woukd like it more. It really doesn't need black in the cost imo
It's Rakdos flavor, I like it design wise. You take a risk with potential benefits.
I really don’t think that Vannifar is really going to be a bad thing as a Commander. If you are only restricted to blue, green, and colorless cards, then there isn’t really any good way to take advantage of “going off” with Vannifar + Intruder Alarm unless you have a mass-Haste enabler like Concordant Crossroads or Akroma’s Memorial in play as well. If you do, then you can chain Undying, Persist, and token-making creatures all the way up to Craterhoof Behemoth and swing in for a large chunk of damage (Young Wolf, Strangleroot Geist, Stormbound Geist, Whirler Rogue, Deranged Hermit, Symbiotic Beast, Avenger of Zendikar, Craterhoof Behemoth can put up 380-400-ish points of Trample damage into play on the spot), but you are playing some pretty suboptimal cards when you go down that path. I think that without other colors, you don’t have anywhere near as much to fear as you did with Modern Kiki Pod decks.
My issue with Vannifar is that I'm having trouble coming up with a list that uses her for more than incidental value without devolving into either UG goodstuff or combo chains, neither of which are things I really want to play. The ability is powerful enough to take over a game if you try and center a deck on it, which isn't really my thing.
Ministrant of Obligation is almost exactly what I wanted from afterlife. Straightforward engine piece that fits with what I already want to be doing in grindy BW lists. It's got great stats for that kind of small value creature - works with Sun Titan, Reveillark, Skullclamp, Recruiter of the Guard, etc. Mausoleum Guard has always been tempting but missed just a few too many of the interactions for me.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'm probably going to build Nikya of the Old Ways as a straight up 100% creature deck, one that's easily loaned out to players new to the format. A Gruul deck that does big stupid splashy things always seems to work best for that.
What do you guys think of Theatre of Horrors? I want to like it but I just can't. I don't understand why they made it a red draw enchantment when they could have made it more like a Phyrexian arena where you may draw a card at the end of turn or something if someone lost life. If it didn't have black in the cost I woukd like it more. It really doesn't need black in the cost imo
It's Rakdos flavor, I like it design wise. You take a risk with potential benefits.
Thats why I want to like it but it just seems like really bad value and I still don't know why it's not a mono r spell. If the second ability was more of a triggered effect I would like it a lot more as it is, the second ability is pretty bad for enabling its first ability cause you need 4 mana + enough mana to play the card. Its a good sink for infinite mana but otherwise I think I would prefer something like Underworld Dreams which isn't great eithor imo.
My issue with Vannifar is that I'm having trouble coming up with a list that uses her for more than incidental value without devolving into either UG goodstuff or combo chains, neither of which are things I really want to play. The ability is powerful enough to take over a game if you try and center a deck on it, which isn't really my thing.
If you like playing the toolbox archetype, I think you'll have plenty of fun using her. Just exclude the untap cards (e.g. Deceiver Exarch, Peregrine Drake) because they serve little purpose in "value" and are pretty much combo cards or otherwise useless. I played Momir Vig for toolbox + value for years without it being combo.
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Kind of makes sense in Ravnica, though. What's the odds Niv would allow any other dragon to exist if it was any conceivable threat to him?
Imagine Smothering Tithe during the Pros-Bloom standard.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Me, im putting it next to Armageddon in Boros MLD.
But for more casual crowds, with Trading Post seems decent too. Add a Dross Scorpion and you got a bad draw engine.
Still the card Im most excited for is Growth Spiral, pick up 4x Foils of those.
Next would be Teysa 3.0. Another great Aristocrats commander or in the 99.
Looks like Aboshan got a new toy. Don't get to say that very often.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Speaking of which... Deathreap ritual doesn't draw 2 with her out right?
I don’t think so. Teysa Karlov specifically only works if the creature dying is what causes the ability to trigger, and in the case of Deathreap Ritual it is the beginning of the end step that causes the ability to trigger. I hope that the card rulings help clarify this since it is not really 100% clear.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
The biggest issue I've had with these decks is that there isn't a very good spell-slinger style rakdos legendary. Judith would have been perfect for my empty the warrens deck had she not said non-token.
I may still give her a try. I could rework the deck to run some repeated graveyard shenanigans (gravecrawler/deathmantle/etc) and trade our the volcanic awakening and haze of rage stuff for bitter ordeal.
I'm not really sure how I feel about this. I think I'm like 90% disappointed and 10% marginally interested.
The new beat-stick rakdos although will be in with my original rakdos the defiler as a secondary commander, maybe for when I use the deck against multiple opponents instead of 1v1.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Of course with Nikya I will have to find a way to cheat things into play consitantly as just playing big creature can be boring. ither my creature will have to be interesting and synergize well, or i will have to ignore the centaur.
Would be better if NO ONE could play non creature spells.
Much Like Arcades, Vannifar is going to be the flavor of the month at my LGS.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
I'm also thinking that Simic Ascendency could win out of nowhere with Sidisi and Path of Discovery. OK not out of nowhere but it could be fun. Maybe throw in some Vorel of the Hull Clade
I don't understand this. You have a choice when building a deck. You can chose to not build her with all the silly combos. My plan is to add Blue to my Freyalise deck and make Vannifar the leader of a UG elves deck. No crazy combos, just value. If you don't want to build a certain commander a certain way just don't. Toolbox commanders like this are practically unlimited in their customizability. Sure she is blatantly powerful but that's no reason for her to e boring.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
oh poo, forgot you could use Intrudenr alarm.
also thornbite staff
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
It's Rakdos flavor, I like it design wise. You take a risk with potential benefits.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Ministrant of Obligation is almost exactly what I wanted from afterlife. Straightforward engine piece that fits with what I already want to be doing in grindy BW lists. It's got great stats for that kind of small value creature - works with Sun Titan, Reveillark, Skullclamp, Recruiter of the Guard, etc. Mausoleum Guard has always been tempting but missed just a few too many of the interactions for me.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If you like playing the toolbox archetype, I think you'll have plenty of fun using her. Just exclude the untap cards (e.g. Deceiver Exarch, Peregrine Drake) because they serve little purpose in "value" and are pretty much combo cards or otherwise useless. I played Momir Vig for toolbox + value for years without it being combo.