Incubation//Incongruity does seem pretty good. Getting a Commune With Nature mixed with an Exiling Rapid Hybridization seems like there is enough flexibility there to warrant some consideration. I will say that the usual selling point on cards like Rapid Hybridization and Pongify is that they only cost a single mana, but getting to Exile the creature may be enough of a step up to warrant the additional cost and color requirements.
As for the Azorius mechanic, I was hoping for something a little more than keywording ability-wording something that they came up with in Time Spiral (see Careful Consideration, Return to Dust, Might of Old Krosa, etc.). Emergency Powers is seemingly a pretty powerful card, but they have made it such that playing it outside of the main phase makes little sense. Sphinx's Insight, aside from having some really annoying artwork, just seems really underpowered unless maybe you are in Oloro where it would read "3WU, Sorcery - Draw 3 cards, Gain 2 Life, Each Opponent loses a life" which I'm not sure is really all that great.
Quote from from="Forgotten One »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204299-unreleased-and-new-card-discussion?comment=26645 »
As for the Azorius mechanic, I was hoping for something a little more than keywording ability-wording something that they came up with in Time Spiral (see Careful Consideration, Return to Dust, Might of Old Krosa, etc.). Emergency Powers is seemingly a pretty powerful card, but they have made it such that playing it outside of the main phase makes little sense.
It's interesting, because my evaluation of Emergency Powers was the exact opposite: I feel like it makes little sense to play during the main phase, and should always be held for just before your turn. Being able to be the first player to untap with your new 7 card hand seems way better than dumping one permanent onto the field.
Quote from from="Forgotten One »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204299-unreleased-and-new-card-discussion?comment=26645 »
As for the Azorius mechanic, I was hoping for something a little more than keywording ability-wording something that they came up with in Time Spiral (see Careful Consideration, Return to Dust, Might of Old Krosa, etc.). Emergency Powers is seemingly a pretty powerful card, but they have made it such that playing it outside of the main phase makes little sense.
It's interesting, because my evaluation of Emergency Powers was the exact opposite: I feel like it makes little sense to play during the main phase, and should always be held for just before your turn. Being able to be the first player to untap with your new 7 card hand seems way better than dumping one permanent onto the field.
As for the Azorius mechanic, I was hoping for something a little more than keywording ability-wording something that they came up with in Time Spiral (see Careful Consideration, Return to Dust, Might of Old Krosa, etc.). Emergency Powers is seemingly a pretty powerful card, but they have made it such that playing it outside of the main phase makes little sense.
It's interesting, because my evaluation of Emergency Powers was the exact opposite: I feel like it makes little sense to play during the main phase, and should always be held for just before your turn. Being able to be the first player to untap with your new 7 card hand seems way better than dumping one permanent onto the field.
That makes sense if you are running something like Storm combo, a deck with lots of smaller CMC cards like Merfolk, or if you have more than 7 lands out and you want to take full advantage of having access to all that mana. I was thinking about it more from the point of view that it would be rare for someone to be able to cast a Draw-7 and a 7-drop on the same turn in any normal situation, and that the mana savings is a huge tempo swing. You make a good point, so maybe there is more "flexibility" to the two modes than I originally thought.
Yeah, at first I got all giddy like “oh, I’m going to EOT V.Tutor for whichever piece I don’t have, and pseudo-Time spiral with a body on the field”, then I remembered you go in order in resolving abilities... dang. Then a few minutes later my brains like “oh, but you could drop Notion Thief to... dude didn’t we just talk about this?” Yeah, it’s been a long day.
Is it just me or does wotc enormously overvalue wheels? Emergency powers is so horrible. For the same cmc you could draw 7 without losing your existing hand and without refilling your opponents.
What made certain wheels busted was the cards/cmc ratio overcoming the downsides of refilling enemy hands and losing your own. Generally-speaking wheels are very niche to formats that allow fast mana where you can get big asymmetrical ca from casting it on turn 1-2. In commander they're awful except for nekusar synergy (where they're still awful but some people like them) or red (where they're still awful). At 7 cmc in blue...what a joke. It'd be trash at 5cmc let alone 7.
Is it just me or does wotc enormously overvalue wheels? Emergency powers is so horrible. For the same cmc you could draw 7 without losing your existing hand and without refilling your opponents.
What made certain wheels busted was the cards/cmc ratio overcoming the downsides of refilling enemy hands and losing your own. Generally-speaking wheels are very niche to formats that allow fast mana where you can get big asymmetrical ca from casting it on turn 1-2. In commander they're awful except for nekusar synergy (where they're still awful but some people like them) or red (where they're still awful). At 7 cmc in blue...what a joke. It'd be trash at 5cmc let alone 7.
You're not alone. I'm not following the hype either.
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I think you are undervaluing wheels. EDH has a ton of cheap ramp spells so emptying your hand as fast as possible and then wheeling often means you win the game.
Is it just me or does wotc enormously overvalue wheels? Emergency powers is so horrible. For the same cmc you could draw 7 without losing your existing hand and without refilling your opponents.
What made certain wheels busted was the cards/cmc ratio overcoming the downsides of refilling enemy hands and losing your own. Generally-speaking wheels are very niche to formats that allow fast mana where you can get big asymmetrical ca from casting it on turn 1-2. In commander they're awful except for nekusar synergy (where they're still awful but some people like them) or red (where they're still awful). At 7 cmc in blue...what a joke. It'd be trash at 5cmc let alone 7.
There is the fact that you can dump a free 7 drop if you do it during your main phase.
Emergency power is instant. Unlike many wheel effects you get to benefit from the cards with full mana before your opponent does, not to mention disrupt their hand should they attempt to search for combo pieces.
Disrupting enemy hands seems really unlikely compared to inadvertently refueling them. If they tutor during their turn they can cast it before passing priority anyway, you're at 7 mana after all.
Wu are generally control colors that won't do well going hellbent to get max value.
Instant means no free 7-drop, gotta pick one.
I'd rather just cast overflowing insight so my opponents never get an advantage, instead of just getting it first. Plus then no hellbent. Also I've never played overflowing insight because it isn't that good anyway.
AFAIK in competitive play, wheels have been good twice - 3 mana wheels in old vintage to spew your deck t1-2, and combo winter, both of which allowed very asymmetrical plays in combo-centric decks. Adding 2 mana took time twister from p9 to unplayable in any format. Adding 2 more is a joke.
I disagree with your general statements about Wheels especially in a format such as Commander where there is so much to do with both a new hand a dumping a hand, and I have totally disrupted peoples combos and heavily sculpted hands with them.
I would only ever consider running EP in a Jeskai deck with some dumb storm stuff going on to multiply the effects and therefore make casting it during my turn really worth it.
For one more mana you could cast myojin of nights reach and bin their hand without refilling it. Or cast thoughtseize or whatever. Or counter the combo.
If they've just now got their combo when you're at 7 mana and they don't have counter protection either...their deck sucks.
I'm not saying it can't be situationally powerful. I'm saying for 7 mana I want something reliably powerful.
Edit: btw I think copying won't do the free 7-drop part (since it says cast).
7 mana feels pretty bad for this effect. You have cards that get close to drawing 7 for 7 at instant speed without fueling opponents (Pull from Tomorrow for 5 gets pretty close), and if you play a deck with a low curve the addendum gets worse. When you play Time Spiral you are probably looking to play multiple cards afterwards, especially ramp pieces that partially refund themselves.
With straight Wheel of Fortune it is easier to follow up when it only costs 3, not to mention play it early where the downside is less significant. Adding 2 to the cost makes them mediocre imo. Even monored is getting enough reasonable card advantage tools to work with these days to not need Reforge the Soul.
7 mana feels pretty bad for this effect. You have cards that get close to drawing 7 for 7 at instant speed without fueling opponents (Pull from Tomorrow for 5 gets pretty close), and if you play a deck with a low curve the addendum gets worse. When you play Time Spiral you are probably looking to play multiple cards afterwards, especially ramp pieces that partially refund themselves.
With straight Wheel of Fortune it is easier to follow up when it only costs 3, not to mention play it early where the downside is less significant. Adding 2 to the cost makes them mediocre imo. Even monored is getting enough reasonable card advantage tools to work with these days to not need Reforge the Soul.
Emphasis mine. I'm not sure comparing a janky UW wheel to a genuinely busted wheel that's easily made mana-positive (because #lolwtf@wotc1998?) is a fair comparison. I think this card is more parallel in effect to the Expertise cycle from Aether Revolt and were it included in that cycle, it'd probably be middle of the pack. I'm not saying this is a great card by any stretch, but just because it isn't freaking Time Spiral doesn't make it any less of an instant speed wheel with an honest attempt at conditional reimbursement stapled to it, which is new.
The white color identity takes it out of consideration for the decks that would have snapped it up (Nekusar, Locust God, Niv-mizzet, Cascade abusers). I think the "main phase" (as opposed to "your turn") clause on Emergency Powers will turn off Narset, Enlightened Master and Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign who do occasionally run wheel effects like Reversal. That leaves it as a fringe fun card for group hug decks like Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and Phelddagrif, and those decks mostly avoid the cheaper and more efficient Time Reversal already.
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Emergency Powers could have been a wheel for just the controller. That would make the addendum part kinda more important. As is, I don't know if players will actually use it at sorcery speed. An understated part of wheels is the recursion part. Azorius has trouble closing out games so when win-cons end up in the yard, it's a bigger hitch in the plans than usual. I would have played Emergency Powers in my azorius decks if it was juiced just a bit more.
Incubation//Incongruity does seem pretty good. Getting a Commune With Nature mixed with an Exiling Rapid Hybridization seems like there is enough flexibility there to warrant some consideration. I will say that the usual selling point on cards like Rapid Hybridization and Pongify is that they only cost a single mana, but getting to Exile the creature may be enough of a step up to warrant the additional cost and color requirements.
As for the Azorius mechanic, I was hoping for something a little more than
keywordingability-wording something that they came up with in Time Spiral (see Careful Consideration, Return to Dust, Might of Old Krosa, etc.). Emergency Powers is seemingly a pretty powerful card, but they have made it such that playing it outside of the main phase makes little sense. Sphinx's Insight, aside from having some really annoying artwork, just seems really underpowered unless maybe you are in Oloro where it would read "3WU, Sorcery - Draw 3 cards, Gain 2 Life, Each Opponent loses a life" which I'm not sure is really all that great.Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Unless you play cards like these. But, it’s situational, and both modes are good.
That makes sense if you are running something like Storm combo, a deck with lots of smaller CMC cards like Merfolk, or if you have more than 7 lands out and you want to take full advantage of having access to all that mana. I was thinking about it more from the point of view that it would be rare for someone to be able to cast a Draw-7 and a 7-drop on the same turn in any normal situation, and that the mana savings is a huge tempo swing. You make a good point, so maybe there is more "flexibility" to the two modes than I originally thought.
Lol. Turning Emergency Powers into Time Spiral seems kinda good.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
And yet, the only thing that currently differentiates this from Monstrous is that it's repeatable - if you have a way to remove counters...
If they don't play with a way to remove or move counters, then I'll be really upset they just made a second monstrous ability.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
The beauty of EDH is that we can play all the cards in the past that would do this for us, such as Bioshift, Cytoplast Root-Kin Daghatar the Adamant, Fate Transfer, Give // Take, Novijen Sages, Ooze Flux, Spike Cannibal, etc., so while I would be surprised and disappointed if they didn't print something in the new set to move counters around it's not like we don't have options.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
What made certain wheels busted was the cards/cmc ratio overcoming the downsides of refilling enemy hands and losing your own. Generally-speaking wheels are very niche to formats that allow fast mana where you can get big asymmetrical ca from casting it on turn 1-2. In commander they're awful except for nekusar synergy (where they're still awful but some people like them) or red (where they're still awful). At 7 cmc in blue...what a joke. It'd be trash at 5cmc let alone 7.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
There is the fact that you can dump a free 7 drop if you do it during your main phase.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Wu are generally control colors that won't do well going hellbent to get max value.
Instant means no free 7-drop, gotta pick one.
I'd rather just cast overflowing insight so my opponents never get an advantage, instead of just getting it first. Plus then no hellbent. Also I've never played overflowing insight because it isn't that good anyway.
AFAIK in competitive play, wheels have been good twice - 3 mana wheels in old vintage to spew your deck t1-2, and combo winter, both of which allowed very asymmetrical plays in combo-centric decks. Adding 2 mana took time twister from p9 to unplayable in any format. Adding 2 more is a joke.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Anyway is Emergency Powers as good as Time Spiral no. Was Mnemonic Betrayal as good as Yawgmoth's Will, no.
They both seem like fun cards tho
I would only ever consider running EP in a Jeskai deck with some dumb storm stuff going on to multiply the effects and therefore make casting it during my turn really worth it.
If they've just now got their combo when you're at 7 mana and they don't have counter protection either...their deck sucks.
I'm not saying it can't be situationally powerful. I'm saying for 7 mana I want something reliably powerful.
Edit: btw I think copying won't do the free 7-drop part (since it says cast).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
With straight Wheel of Fortune it is easier to follow up when it only costs 3, not to mention play it early where the downside is less significant. Adding 2 to the cost makes them mediocre imo. Even monored is getting enough reasonable card advantage tools to work with these days to not need Reforge the Soul.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Emphasis mine. I'm not sure comparing a janky UW wheel to a genuinely busted wheel that's easily made mana-positive (because #lolwtf@wotc1998?) is a fair comparison. I think this card is more parallel in effect to the Expertise cycle from Aether Revolt and were it included in that cycle, it'd probably be middle of the pack. I'm not saying this is a great card by any stretch, but just because it isn't freaking Time Spiral doesn't make it any less of an instant speed wheel with an honest attempt at conditional reimbursement stapled to it, which is new.
Given who the spell is depicting, I think we can pretty much include it in the cycle. It is a more stable..instant speed Rashmi's expertise.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
The white color identity takes it out of consideration for the decks that would have snapped it up (Nekusar, Locust God, Niv-mizzet, Cascade abusers). I think the "main phase" (as opposed to "your turn") clause on Emergency Powers will turn off Narset, Enlightened Master and Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign who do occasionally run wheel effects like Reversal. That leaves it as a fringe fun card for group hug decks like Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis and Phelddagrif, and those decks mostly avoid the cheaper and more efficient Time Reversal already.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Flample Hydra that becomes half a Sphinx's Revelation even if it gets countered? Sign me up.
My usual Palinchron plan involves drawing into Apocalypse Hydra and I think I've found the perfect companion.