Surveil is pretty much the same as scry most of the time. I think the Sphinx is OK. It does a lot of things at once but it's a decent overall package if you're playing a draw/go style deck.
The guild keyword this time around are pretty much meh. I mean I would rather see overload come back. Instead we get jumpstart. While not horrible. I miss overload.
For six mana, you're getting to dig 4 cards (which can also set up reanimation/other GY synergy), soft removal of any nonland, and a flying body at instant speed. It's a great tempo or control card even if you're not playing a particularly GY heavy deck. It's debatable how good it is at 6. I'm inclined to think that it's still very good, in large part because I think it would be insane at 5. That said, you probably don't want it if you're not already playing a fair amount at instant speed. It loses a lot of it's appeal when you're not flashing it in.
Surveil is a solid ability. Scry is great in this format, especially when you start talking about scrying 3 or 4, and surveil is usually better than scry unless you have a compelling reason to want to keep things in your library (e.g. Birthing Pod).
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
So the Dimir are just getting rid of some of their memories to get better results? I get how it can be good. I don’t get it as Dimir. I know it’s good in the right EDH deck, and I can see it working so well with the Izzet and Golgari abilities. It just seems so low impact.
It's card selection. That's always apparently low-impact on its own, but extremely useful for getting the high-impact card(s) you need when actually put into a deck.
Izoni is exactly the type of card I thought could lead an undergrowth deck. INN used the mechanic a bit, and it pops up every now and then. The cost to cast might be a little high, but those two colors can handle it.
Izoni is exactly the type of card I thought could lead an undergrowth deck. INN used the mechanic a bit, and it pops up every now and then. The cost to cast might be a little high, but those two colors can handle it.
I do not really understand what "Undergrowth" does here. What is the mechanic again and how is this not just a simple etb effect. I'm not trying to sound grumpy or anything, I'm just genuinely confused on that that word does here
Undergrowth cares about the number of creature cards in your graveyard. This guy just rewards you for amassing them. The second ability allows you to build the GY (with other creatures) to further other undergrowth cards.
I do wonder if they will reword cards like Splinterfright to use it (like domain).
I wonder if Jarad helms an undergrowth strategy better? I had a decklist once where you played a creature dense deck with lots of delve and creatures like splinterfright to sac to Jarad
Assassin's Trophy is absurdly strong, but I'm glad WOTC decided to push the envelope a little. Here's hoping the rest of the block has stuff like this.
Wellp. Izoni goes straight into my 'amount of creatures in my graveyard matters' - or I suppose, it's 'Undergrowth' deck now. Potentially even to lead it, depending if I want fuel or win condition more on my command zone (Izoni or Jarad). Though if I switch to Izoni, a few Overrun effects are probably the order of the day.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Goblin Cratermaker is a good card. The 2 damage mode is lower impact in EDH than other formats but can still take out utility creatures and the second mode has an enormous number of targets here. Goblin creature type is relevant even outside of dedicated goblin tribal lists and warriors have gotten a lot of support recently. This fits into a lot of decks.
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I feel like Ionize is a highly-usable EDH card. The extra colorless makes life easier (in addition to all the cost-reducing available).
Even if you reduce it by 1 it's still basically on a par with counterspell, which is a fine card but one that I cut pretty often in favor of counterspells with lower costs or higher upsides. And that's assuming you're in UR and have significant sources of cost reduction and care about the damage.
Looks like garbage to me. At best it's a niche or budget inclusion.
Beast Whisperer? More like Elf Whisperer in my Ezuri Elf Tribal deck. Great card. It won't replace Pokedex because the scry on it is fairlly usefull and it dodges creature removal. Going to use both.
Even if you reduce it by 1 it's still basically on a par with counterspell, which is a fine card but one that I cut pretty often in favor of counterspells with lower costs or higher upsides.
Can i ask you a list of these counterspells that are better than counterspell?
It does depend on context.
Counterspell is pretty middle-of-the-road imo. It's solid but it doesn't offer amazing value like, say, cryptic command and mystic confluence for slower metas, but it also doesn't offer hyper-efficient combo-breaking/protecting capability for fast metas like force of will, spell pierce, and swan song. And then there's a few strictly-better, and nearly-strictly-better, options like mana drain and arcane denial. And then options like forbid and dream fracture that aren't strictly better, but offer some pretty significant upside for a fairly low cost increase.
Bottom line is that your choice of counters is going to depend on your meta and your deck, and I think counterspell fits pretty snugly into the middle. If you're running only a few counters, you'll pick the strictly-better stuff. If you're in a slow meta, you'll pick the value stuff. If you're in a fast meta, you'll pick the hyper-efficient stuff. Once you're running 10+ counters you're probably running counterspell, but I don't think it's in the top 5 for really any deck because it doesn't do any one thing particularly well.
It is good, and I'll probably run it too. Soul of the Harvest does draw you from 'put into play' stuff like Chord of Calling or Genesis Wave and the ilk, though. It won't matter for every deck, but it will for some.
I do not really understand what "Undergrowth" does here. What is the mechanic again and how is this not just a simple etb effect. I'm not trying to sound grumpy or anything, I'm just genuinely confused on that that word does here
Literally nothing. Undergrowth is an ability word like Converge, Delerium, Landfall, Metalcraft, etc. Ability words have zero rules meaning, they're just used to tie similar abilities together, to draw the player's eye like "Oh hey, all these cards want be to put lands into play, they might be useful in the same deck!"
Lack of ability words was an issue in Scourge, for example; the set had a theme of cards that cared about having high-CMC creatures, but that theme flew over people's heads with no ability word to tie those similar cards together.
Even if you reduce it by 1 it's still basically on a par with counterspell, which is a fine card but one that I cut pretty often in favor of counterspells with lower costs or higher upsides.
Can i ask you a list of these counterspells that are better than counterspell?
Disdainful Stroke, Negate, and Swan Song have restricted targets, but the targets they can hit are usually the ones you want to counter the most anyway. Delay and Remand both let the opponent get their spell back eventually, but in my experience 3 turns of suspend either gives the table time to prepare for the spell, dig for a different answer, or eliminate that player. There have been a lot of games where I Delay something only for the game to end before it comes off suspend. X-cost spells also get re-cast for 0, so Delaying a Torment of Hailfire, Exsanguinate, Genesis Wave, or similar is as good as countering it. Remand puts it straight back into their hand, but it cantrips and often Time Walks that player. Arcande Denial lets them draw cards, but it cantrips. Force of Will's alternate cost can hurt depending on your hand, but being able to counter a spell while tapped out is invaluable. Pact of Negation costs a bunch on your next upkeep, but again being able to counter a spell while tapped out is invaluable. Also, you can tutor for it with Tolaria West, and it's a great card for protecting your game-winning combo (who cares about paying 5 mana next upkeep when the game is going to end?)
I don't think I can agree with most of those, interestingly. They're good but many are not better than counterspell imo. Sure, negate hits a lot of stuff you care about, but there are still plenty of creatures that end the game on the spot. Flexibility is valuable and replacing 1 with U is a very low cost unless you're playing baral in the command zone or you're playing 5 color or something (and even then, fixing is good enough that you're probably fine, but if you want to cast a blue spell on your turn and keep up UU it can be tough). disdainful stroke, same deal - generally good at stopping most wincons, but less good at stopping opposing counters or removal aimed at blocking your win or protecting theirs, and the low cost change is much less relevant imo.
Remand and delay are interesting but I think it's a meta call. Sometimes those cards will be pretty ineffective, but sometimes they can be better than any counterspell because they motivate the table to gang up and kill that player before they resolve whatever spell they were casting. So that one is fair but really comes down to the meta and personal preference.
pact and force are indeed both excellent, no disagreement there. And ofc mana drain is borked and arcane denial is basically strictly-better counterspell unless it's 1v1.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Surveil is a solid ability. Scry is great in this format, especially when you start talking about scrying 3 or 4, and surveil is usually better than scry unless you have a compelling reason to want to keep things in your library (e.g. Birthing Pod).
If you've got tutors and little to no recursion, surveil is worse than scry.
If you've got little to no tutors and little to no recursion, surveil is equivalent to scry.
Does that help?
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Surveil's self-mill benefits Jumpstart and Undergrowth
Undergrowth, Convoke, and Mentor benefit from playing lots of creatures
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I do wonder if they will reword cards like Splinterfright to use it (like domain).
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Looks like garbage to me. At best it's a niche or budget inclusion.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Yeeeesssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more having to deal with Soul of the Harvest or Primordial Sage, and it even seems like an upgrade over Lifecrafter's Bestiary. And it's an Elf... and a Druid.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Counterspell is pretty middle-of-the-road imo. It's solid but it doesn't offer amazing value like, say, cryptic command and mystic confluence for slower metas, but it also doesn't offer hyper-efficient combo-breaking/protecting capability for fast metas like force of will, spell pierce, and swan song. And then there's a few strictly-better, and nearly-strictly-better, options like mana drain and arcane denial. And then options like forbid and dream fracture that aren't strictly better, but offer some pretty significant upside for a fairly low cost increase.
Bottom line is that your choice of counters is going to depend on your meta and your deck, and I think counterspell fits pretty snugly into the middle. If you're running only a few counters, you'll pick the strictly-better stuff. If you're in a slow meta, you'll pick the value stuff. If you're in a fast meta, you'll pick the hyper-efficient stuff. Once you're running 10+ counters you're probably running counterspell, but I don't think it's in the top 5 for really any deck because it doesn't do any one thing particularly well.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It is good, and I'll probably run it too. Soul of the Harvest does draw you from 'put into play' stuff like Chord of Calling or Genesis Wave and the ilk, though. It won't matter for every deck, but it will for some.
Lack of ability words was an issue in Scourge, for example; the set had a theme of cards that cared about having high-CMC creatures, but that theme flew over people's heads with no ability word to tie those similar cards together.
Strictly better I think is pretty much just Mana Drain. But generally better includes Arcane Denial, Delay, Disdainful Stroke, Force of Will, Negate, Pact of Negation, Remand, and Swan Song.
Disdainful Stroke, Negate, and Swan Song have restricted targets, but the targets they can hit are usually the ones you want to counter the most anyway. Delay and Remand both let the opponent get their spell back eventually, but in my experience 3 turns of suspend either gives the table time to prepare for the spell, dig for a different answer, or eliminate that player. There have been a lot of games where I Delay something only for the game to end before it comes off suspend. X-cost spells also get re-cast for 0, so Delaying a Torment of Hailfire, Exsanguinate, Genesis Wave, or similar is as good as countering it. Remand puts it straight back into their hand, but it cantrips and often Time Walks that player. Arcande Denial lets them draw cards, but it cantrips. Force of Will's alternate cost can hurt depending on your hand, but being able to counter a spell while tapped out is invaluable. Pact of Negation costs a bunch on your next upkeep, but again being able to counter a spell while tapped out is invaluable. Also, you can tutor for it with Tolaria West, and it's a great card for protecting your game-winning combo (who cares about paying 5 mana next upkeep when the game is going to end?)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Remand and delay are interesting but I think it's a meta call. Sometimes those cards will be pretty ineffective, but sometimes they can be better than any counterspell because they motivate the table to gang up and kill that player before they resolve whatever spell they were casting. So that one is fair but really comes down to the meta and personal preference.
pact and force are indeed both excellent, no disagreement there. And ofc mana drain is borked and arcane denial is basically strictly-better counterspell unless it's 1v1.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
(I'm still fine with them as slightly different mini-versions of Soul of the Harvest/Harvester of Souls.)
(GB got SO MUCH this set.)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'