Sure, but you're almost never going to see it. That's a really tough flip condition. Even if you have a way to repeatedly untap it and all of the required CMCs in hand/top of deck, it's absolute minimum 7 mana. Untapping it is either going to take additional mana or a very well developed board. Even Unwinding Clock, which speeds up the process without those requirements, still gives everyone at the table (assuming <= 4 players) a chance to answer it at sorcery speed. Beyond that, the mana production is tied to their life total so you can reduce the impact by swinging at them. If there's nothing speeding up the process and it still flips to a relevant land, the people you're playing with need to improve their decks slightly. I'm not usually a fan of that line of reasoning, but multiple players with 4 turns of notice about what might as well be an infinite mana combo should be able to answer that somehow, even in very low powered metas.
Azor's Gateway is playable on its own for colors that don't have much draw/selection, i.e. mono-R and mono-W. The backside of it is akin to PW ultimates - nice when it happens but not something you plan for without a dedicated plan to get there, possibly a combo.
Six CMC with quad U in the cost, requires you to have 4 additional cards in hand, and you're still paying 7 mana to play and flip Gateway so either 13 mana in a turn, some kind of flash enabler, or everyone still gets an opportunity to answer at sorcery speed. This isn't any less clunky than other combo flips.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Sweet sweet commander gods.... what have you done.... Champion of Dusk is going to be ridiculous. Granted, its essentially just for swarm based Edgar decks but man..... thats one hell of a shoe in.
Azor's Gateway - I actually like this card from a cheap hand filtering perspective. You cant abuse the things you filter out but some for some decks its more important to just move cards.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - cool card for Gishath. Its even mildly interesting as a commander.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Six CMC with quad U in the cost, requires you to have 4 additional cards in hand, and you're still paying 7 mana to play and flip Gateway so either 13 mana in a turn, some kind of flash enabler, or everyone still gets an opportunity to answer at sorcery speed. This isn't any less clunky than other combo flips.
4x U is not as oppressive as it looks if you have the correct mana rocks and lands that produce the colors you need.
Its only a two card combo, I am referring to what is actually used, not the costs.
Having nine or more cards in hand is just a typical day for blue in commander. Commonly blue uses things that increase maximum hand size like Nezahal, Kruphix, Reliquary Tower, Venser's Journal, etc.
Six CMC with quad U in the cost, requires you to have 4 additional cards in hand, and you're still paying 7 mana to play and flip Gateway so either 13 mana in a turn, some kind of flash enabler, or everyone still gets an opportunity to answer at sorcery speed. This isn't any less clunky than other combo flips.
4x U is not as oppressive as it looks if you have the correct mana rocks and lands that produce the colors you need.
Its only a two card combo, I am referring to what is actually used, not the costs.
Having nine or more cards in hand is just a typical day for blue in commander. Commonly blue uses things that increase maximum hand size like Nezahal, Kruphix, Reliquary Tower, Venser's Journal, etc.
13 mana isn't a problem? Where do you live? At the north pole?
Even for EDH, 13 mana is a lot and not easy to bring online consistently. I mean, outside of traditional infinite mana combos, the things you need to set up for it are not something to scoff at.
I can only think of a handful of times I've ever had that much mana. Almost all of them were from playing Sharuum, Blinkmoth Urn, having numerous artifacts out, mostly thopter tokens!
Six CMC with quad U in the cost, requires you to have 4 additional cards in hand, and you're still paying 7 mana to play and flip Gateway so either 13 mana in a turn, some kind of flash enabler, or everyone still gets an opportunity to answer at sorcery speed. This isn't any less clunky than other combo flips.
4x U is not as oppressive as it looks if you have the correct mana rocks and lands that produce the colors you need.
Its only a two card combo, I am referring to what is actually used, not the costs.
Having nine or more cards in hand is just a typical day for blue in commander. Commonly blue uses things that increase maximum hand size like Nezahal, Kruphix, Reliquary Tower, Venser's Journal, etc.
13 mana isn't a problem? Where do you live? At the north pole?
Red and/or green gets you there.
Neheb, the Eternal (commander) + Flame Rift = 12x R in a four player game. If you swing with Neheb into someone, you are looking at 15 or 16x R instead. Neheb works well with combat damage and mass effect damage. Which gets you an obscene amount of mana. Like if you use Neheb + Heartless Hidetsugu you get X R equal to the amount dealt by Hidetsugu to your opponents which can easily range from 15 to 20 damage each and in a four player game that is anywhere between 45 and 60x R in the pool. Even just a Lightning Bolt is the equivalent of a Dark Ritual. Fiery Confluence? That is between 6 and 18x R by itself.
Speaking of, you can always just Boundless Realms with seven lands out to reach 14 lands. Green has so many ramp options that I find it hard to believe you can't reach 13 mana. Turn 4 can easily be Skyshroud Claim, Explosive Vegetation OR Ranger's Path assuming no other ramping has been done and by Turn 5 you just play your seventh land normally and cast Boundless Realms.
There are several methods in which achieve 13+ mana in a regular commander game without:
A) Needing 4 or more cards.
B) Infinite mana combos.
Commander has evolved in the seven years time since the very first Commander product from WotC and its only been getting quicker and more consistent to pull off these kinds of tricks.
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Wayward Swordtooth is clearly for Land Decks if you need more of that effect or need the effect on a bigger body, but for me, it reminds me of Rhonas the Indomitable. A 3 Mana 5/5 with an upside and a downside that Selvala, Heart of the Wilds doesn't care about because she just want a 3 Mana 5/5!
Am I the only one totally pumped about Pitiless Plunderer? Seems strong in B creatures based decks, and insane in B token based decks. My Teysa, Orzhov Scion will be happy to abuse it <3
Little sad about hadana's. Was hoping for something a little more phelddagrif-able. Ah well. At least that blessing-of-the-city land is good for that deck. And most likely cheap enough for my 2dh build.
Overall the flip cards are super interesting, though. And they all seem very EDHable. I hope there's a full 5 colorless ones, though that might be overoptimistic.
Am I the only one totally pumped about Pitiless Plunderer? Seems strong in B creatures based decks, and insane in B token based decks. My Teysa, Orzhov Scion will be happy to abuse it <3
It seems rather in line with Sifter of Skulls and Pawn of Ulamog. There is a little variance given both the ones I mentioned only trigger off of nontoken creature deaths so I guess its nice that you can chain gun tokens and get the mana from them. There are pros and cons though as some decks would value additional creatures going through the engine more than they would a larger abundance of mana. If you were to add a Blood Artist to the mix for example its possible you would prefer seeing more bodies over more mana.
It depends on the deck but for the most part I dont really employ either of these effects very often and I suspect the new version will be a little similar in use for me.
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Am I the only one totally pumped about Pitiless Plunderer? Seems strong in B creatures based decks, and insane in B token based decks. My Teysa, Orzhov Scion will be happy to abuse it <3
Seems like a very good set all over. The flavor is through the roof on average, and I am now rather tempted to see if I can build an Ixalan-inspired vampire deck, at either Mardu or Orzhov. Also all those big fat enragey 'saurs to put in Gishath (which employs plenty of Pyrohemia effects as a side-theme). Other than those big points, all kinds of goodies here and there.
EDIT: A fair amount of nice stuff. In particular, almost all the Primal Elder Dinosauries found a home (commanders need appropriate pets, natch), and not surprisingly, Gishath, Jori En's merfolk swarm and sac-artifacts-all-day-Breya got stuff. Other than that, it's good things here and there, but no real earth-cracking stuff. 40 cards across 32 decks in all, I think. Unless actually cracking open the boosters I come across something I missed.
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Mastermind's Acquisition makes me want to desperately beg my playgroup to allow wishboards. I already loved Death Wish and +1cmc for not committing suicide and the ability to simply tutor for something in-deck is amazing. Alas.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
And my favorite part
HES NOT WUBRG!! HE'S NAYA WRG!!
So Gishath, Sun's avatar can hire zacama
And the blue primal Dinosaur, Animar, Soul of elements can use him
No hand limit draw from opponents non creature spells and can protect himself.
Azor's Gateway - I actually like this card from a cheap hand filtering perspective. You cant abuse the things you filter out but some for some decks its more important to just move cards.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - cool card for Gishath. Its even mildly interesting as a commander.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
So far, Rivals has given us some interesting stuff and fun new things to play with.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
4x U is not as oppressive as it looks if you have the correct mana rocks and lands that produce the colors you need.
Its only a two card combo, I am referring to what is actually used, not the costs.
Having nine or more cards in hand is just a typical day for blue in commander. Commonly blue uses things that increase maximum hand size like Nezahal, Kruphix, Reliquary Tower, Venser's Journal, etc.
13 mana isn't a problem? Where do you live? At the north pole?
I can only think of a handful of times I've ever had that much mana. Almost all of them were from playing Sharuum, Blinkmoth Urn, having numerous artifacts out, mostly thopter tokens!
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
Neheb, the Eternal (commander) + Flame Rift = 12x R in a four player game. If you swing with Neheb into someone, you are looking at 15 or 16x R instead. Neheb works well with combat damage and mass effect damage. Which gets you an obscene amount of mana. Like if you use Neheb + Heartless Hidetsugu you get X R equal to the amount dealt by Hidetsugu to your opponents which can easily range from 15 to 20 damage each and in a four player game that is anywhere between 45 and 60x R in the pool. Even just a Lightning Bolt is the equivalent of a Dark Ritual. Fiery Confluence? That is between 6 and 18x R by itself.
Brass's Bounty is Boundless Realms in red except it gives you Treasure Chest tokens equal to how many lands you have.
Speaking of, you can always just Boundless Realms with seven lands out to reach 14 lands. Green has so many ramp options that I find it hard to believe you can't reach 13 mana. Turn 4 can easily be Skyshroud Claim, Explosive Vegetation OR Ranger's Path assuming no other ramping has been done and by Turn 5 you just play your seventh land normally and cast Boundless Realms.
There are several methods in which achieve 13+ mana in a regular commander game without:
A) Needing 4 or more cards.
B) Infinite mana combos.
Commander has evolved in the seven years time since the very first Commander product from WotC and its only been getting quicker and more consistent to pull off these kinds of tricks.
Twilight Prophet
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
The Dream:
Turn 1: Forest, Sol Ring or Forest, Exploration, Forest
Turn 2: Forest, Selvala
Turn 3: Forest, 3 Mana 5/5, Tap Selvala for 5 Mana to summon Ghalta, Primal Hunger
Turn 4: Concede when Blightsteel Colossus gets countered and everything gets Doom Bladed.
The
Necromancer (or Noob)
Cat.
Don't ask, I don't know why ether...
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Overall the flip cards are super interesting, though. And they all seem very EDHable. I hope there's a full 5 colorless ones, though that might be overoptimistic.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It seems rather in line with Sifter of Skulls and Pawn of Ulamog. There is a little variance given both the ones I mentioned only trigger off of nontoken creature deaths so I guess its nice that you can chain gun tokens and get the mana from them. There are pros and cons though as some decks would value additional creatures going through the engine more than they would a larger abundance of mana. If you were to add a Blood Artist to the mix for example its possible you would prefer seeing more bodies over more mana.
It depends on the deck but for the most part I dont really employ either of these effects very often and I suspect the new version will be a little similar in use for me.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I fear the accidental game draws when somebody pays Pitiless Plunderer into my March of the Machines.
Temur Sabertooth, Enduring Renewal, and Cloudstone Curio can be disgusting with this guy.
Noetic Scales, Erratic Portal, Panharmonicon, and Dust Elemental can be some good value.
EDIT: A fair amount of nice stuff. In particular, almost all the Primal Elder Dinosauries found a home (commanders need appropriate pets, natch), and not surprisingly, Gishath, Jori En's merfolk swarm and sac-artifacts-all-day-Breya got stuff. Other than that, it's good things here and there, but no real earth-cracking stuff. 40 cards across 32 decks in all, I think. Unless actually cracking open the boosters I come across something I missed.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Twilight Prophet is meh. It compares favorably with Graveborn Muse and Bloodgift Demon, but neither of those cards are particularly good in my opinion.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK