Anyone want to sell me on Sigarda's Aid? It looks pretty bad to me despite all of the love its getting. I could see it in a very aura/equipment heavy deck, but those are typically voltron and there's not a whole lot to be gained from flashing them in. Cheating on the equip cost is nice, but how often will you actually take advantage of that? Even [most] equipment heavy decks aren't running more than 10-12 options. You want equip costs to be low where possible, because you can't count on having this or Puresteel Paladin around all the time. It feels like a cute card that's mostly going to do nothing outside of very specialized decks. I don't think I've ever played a deck where this would make the first cut.
Song of the Dryads has become one of my favorite cards. Sure, this blue one has less versatility, but at least it doesn't provide colored mana and keep the permanent in play (so away from GY shenanigans).
Anyone want to sell me on Sigarda's Aid? It looks pretty bad to me despite all of the love its getting. I could see it in a very aura/equipment heavy deck, but those are typically voltron and there's not a whole lot to be gained from flashing them in. Cheating on the equip cost is nice, but how often will you actually take advantage of that?
Sigarda's Aid lets you Animate Dead at instant speed.
Heh, nice. Necromancy for less mana without the sacrifice clause? I can live with that.
Another interesting one to have as an instant is Pattern of Rebirth. "Oh, you're killing my dude? Well, in that case, I'll just go find something better...."
I understand the interactions with the card and why they're powerful. I just don't think it's a good card. It combos with a handful of cards in a deck and does nothing else. If you play your equipment first, it's a dead draw. If you draw into your Argentum Armor without having this down, it still has all the problems it normally does. I almost never see Puresteel Paladin in decks, which I would argue is a much more powerful effect because of the cantrip and gives you a body to put equipment on, because most decks don't have enough equipment for this to be a relevant card most of the time. I don't know the last time I saw Leonin Shikari in play, which gives you a lot of the same protection benefits. Stonehewer Giant is powerful because it's a tutor first and the instant equip is a secondary benefit. If it was just putting equipment in from hand, I doubt it would be played anywhere near as much. I have literally never seen Rootwater Shaman played. How many equipments are you all running that this is going to let you cheat costs on more than 1-2 cards in a game? Are you running a high enough density of auras that actually matter at instant speed for this to ever come up?
It's a flashy card with some cute interactions, but I think it's a lot more niche than people are giving it credit for.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Sigarda’s Blessing – Probably good for 6-8 mana through the course of the game. Also, the possibility of some antics with Lightning Greaves or Swords in response to spot removal gives you a decent chance of it replacing itself.
Stunning Growth – You know a card is awesome when its realistic floor performance is equal to Ranger’s Path. For its performance at its realistic mean, it will probably be between 3-4 lands. Solid card for all 3-color Green decks, absolutely bonkers in Stax/MLD setups.
Mausoleum Wanderer – They’re pushing the power-level here on what’s an already somewhat playable line of cards (Judge’s Familiar, Cursecatcher). My feel is that turning it into a Spell Pierce /Mana Leak by strapping a Rancor or Sword to it will be relevant for a lot of EDH decks, maybe a Modern deck here and there also.
I understand the interactions with the card and why they're powerful. I just don't think it's a good card. It combos with a handful of cards in a deck and does nothing else. If you play your equipment first, it's a dead draw. If you draw into your Argentum Armor without having this down, it still has all the problems it normally does. I almost never see Puresteel Paladin in decks, which I would argue is a much more powerful effect because of the cantrip and gives you a body to put equipment on, because most decks don't have enough equipment for this to be a relevant card most of the time. I don't know the last time I saw Leonin Shikari in play, which gives you a lot of the same protection benefits. Stonehewer Giant is powerful because it's a tutor first and the instant equip is a secondary benefit. If it was just putting equipment in from hand, I doubt it would be played anywhere near as much. I have literally never seen Rootwater Shaman played. How many equipments are you all running that this is going to let you cheat costs on more than 1-2 cards in a game? Are you running a high enough density of auras that actually matter at instant speed for this to ever come up?
It's a flashy card with some cute interactions, but I think it's a lot more niche than people are giving it credit for.
Apologies, I guess I didn't point out that yeah, it won't go in EVERY deck, but decks that are built to support it will LOVE this card. Like, I think any creature based decks could benefit from Lightning Greaves and such, and Swords of X and Y are just awesome, but yeah, they alone aren't enough to go with this card. But you actually bother include a lot of the above mentioned cards and focus the deck on an Enchantress or Equipment theme, then I think this card can do some wonders. Honestly, just getting that one surprise flash Equip or Aura removal/pump can swing a game if in the right place, so it doesn't take much for the card to do work, it just needs the deck to cooperate with it. So yeah, I definitely agree with you, it is niche, but it is an awesome niche, personally.
Now, the other cards you mentioned, specifically Leonin Shikari and Rootwater Shaman are both niche cards that do good things, but since this does both of those effects (to some extent) for a lot less mana and harder to remove, I think it deserves some good mention. Then again, I also really like the Shikari and the Shaman and would include them if I had the decks they would like built at the time.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Of course, I'm just looking at it from a ban standpoint. Stunning Growth won't be an auto-include in every green deck, but it will be quite good in many. It's certainly no more powerful (although cheaper to cast) than a number of unbanned sorceries.
I understand the interactions with the card and why they're powerful. I just don't think it's a good card. It combos with a handful of cards in a deck and does nothing else. If you play your equipment first, it's a dead draw. If you draw into your Argentum Armor without having this down, it still has all the problems it normally does. I almost never see Puresteel Paladin in decks, which I would argue is a much more powerful effect because of the cantrip and gives you a body to put equipment on, because most decks don't have enough equipment for this to be a relevant card most of the time. I don't know the last time I saw Leonin Shikari in play, which gives you a lot of the same protection benefits. Stonehewer Giant is powerful because it's a tutor first and the instant equip is a secondary benefit. If it was just putting equipment in from hand, I doubt it would be played anywhere near as much. I have literally never seen Rootwater Shaman played. How many equipments are you all running that this is going to let you cheat costs on more than 1-2 cards in a game? Are you running a high enough density of auras that actually matter at instant speed for this to ever come up?
It's a flashy card with some cute interactions, but I think it's a lot more niche than people are giving it credit for.
I'm putting this in my kemba deck for sure. That's likely the only deck it's going in though.
Nahiri doesn't need the free equip and it's kind of meh if you already have puresteel. My other equipment heavy decks don't want this because drawing it late is pretty worthless and you need a lot of equipment for it to be useful.
I've seen Standstill played. Fortunately for me, I had a T1 Weathered Wayfarer, so I just kept fetching fun lands until someone finally broke down and cast a spell.
Standstill is quite strong and used in a number of U/x decks that can afford to stall because it really hurts the player who breaks it (since everyone else draws three).
I don't think the new Lunar Force (or Hesitation) is nearly as good; you'll probably just end up countering someone's 2-mana ramp spell or mana rock or something that they throw away to get rid of it. That said, I think both are playable in Hanna, Ship's Navigator, and they also work well in a deck that runs Sun Titan. However, it's problematic in multiplayer that they (unlike Standstill) are going to make you really unpopular really fast, especially if you start recurring them.
Stunning Growth is nuts. It's a better, one sided Planar Birth. I'll be running that a lot. Aside to Fedders, can we at least wait until the prerelease to start speculating about bans? Maybe let a couple people play at least one game with the card?
lol. Perhaps I jumped the gun on that speculation. It just seems like it would evolve to fit into the criteria that doesn't let us play with the card.
"Produces Too Much Mana Too Quickly. Commander is a format about epic plays but the turn 10 epic play happening on turn 3 is deflating. Limited acceleration is good but we don't want the format to turn into "who can go off earliest" so we rein in large quantities of early mana." - Sheldon
I doubt this will enable the turn 10 play on turn 3. But newer players will likely gravitate to this card while likely taking offense to land destruction strategies and combo, which warps the dominance of the not to be criticized ramp based strategy. Now every tri color green deck has three of the one mana cycle lands, 9 fetches, life from the loam, and stunning Growth. Now people can build thier 86 other card G/X/x.
But seriously, the set hasn't even been released yet. And I wanna play with this card. So stop with all that ban talk!
Full spoiler should be up now, so lets see what I've missed:
Faith Unbroken: Turns a creature into a buffed Fiend Hunter. Fairly expensive for all the potential disadvantage it has, but being able to tack this onto a protection/hexproof/indestructible creature can make up for it, and it has a spot in voltron builds that are often just looking to buff their creature anyway ala Sigarda/Bruna/Uril.
Ironclad Slayer: an Auramancer who trades grabbing Oblivion Rings for grabbing equipment. As with Faith Unbroken, while not necessarily a better card than it's predecessors, the decks that do want it are much happier now. Also, having an extra point of power is always nice.
Thraben Standard Bearer: Two mana and a card might be a bit much to make a single token if you aren't using your graveyard in some way, but the fact that it's a human soldier makes it one of the most versatile tokens you could create with regards to tribal synergies.
Nebelgast Herald: A reasonable choice for spirit decks as a way to mess with attackers/blockers; though you'll want a fair amount of spirit tokens to really make use of it.
Scour the Laboratory: It's either just above or just below a Jace's Ingenuity, which means it's a reasonable choice if you think you can hit delirium.
Graf Harvest: Similar to the standard bearer, the costs involved in making a token might not be worthwhile as a simple token producer, but if you're focused on zombie tribal they'll do good work, even if it's mostly just a way to give your zombies menace.
Ruthless Disposal: A fairly costly card by all points (mana, discard, sacrifice), but being an almost guaranteed kill on two creatures could make it worthwhile if you can get value out of the discard or sacrifice.
Shreds of Sanity: Pull from the Deep being available to non-U decks, and for cheaper? Sign me up, even if the discard mostly keeps it at card parity.
Clear Shot: Clean and efficient creature removal in green, especially because it still pairs well with deathtouch/lifelink effects.
Foul Emissary: It's interesting that they've made at least a few cards designed to play with emerge, and being a 3-cost creature is generally where you want to be if you want to emerge on curve. Outside of emerge decks, it's a bit overcosted for it's effect, but if your deck can get away with casting 3-cost 1/1s, it might still do some work.
It of the Horrid Swarm: It provides a 6/6s worth of bodies, and considering emerge usually wants you to be playing with sac-outlets and creatures that like to be sacrificed, having a couple of 1/1s may well be worth it just to keep the sacrifice chains going.
Animated Lunar Force through Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx then give it Assault Suit = Opponents can never cast spells (unless they can't be countered). I believe the way its worded is that it doesn't need to be sacrificed to be countered.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Animated Lunar Force through Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx then give it Assault Suit = Opponents can never cast spells (unless they can't be countered). I believe the way its worded is that it doesn't need to be sacrificed to be countered.
Two problems with this, I think. Lunar Force says "When an opponent" and since the animated enchantment is getting passed around by the Suit, I think it would just prevent people from casting spells on other people's turns. HOWEVER, I think not being able to sacrifice the enchantment does mean the spell isn't countered.
Animated Lunar Force through Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx then give it Assault Suit = Opponents can never cast spells (unless they can't be countered). I believe the way its worded is that it doesn't need to be sacrificed to be countered.
Two problems with this, I think. Lunar Force says "When an opponent" and since the animated enchantment is getting passed around by the Suit, I think it would just prevent people from casting spells on other people's turns. HOWEVER, I think not being able to sacrifice the enchantment does mean the spell isn't countered.
You don't have to give away the Lunar Force. Assault Suit is a "may" ablility. I believe the way Lunar force is worded is much like Gitrog Frog, where you can cheat the sacrifice part with Assault Suit. The way you are saying, I believe it would have to be something along the lines of Blind Zealot, Breath of Fury, Furnace Scamp or hell something similar Standstill. where the sacrifice part is needed for the rest to go off.
So reaching that conclusion, this complicated combo is basically Erayo 2.0. In 3 cards (Or more if you use Starfield of Nyx).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Turn Umezawa's Jitte into a combat trick.
Or Basilisk's Collar.
Or any equipment or Aura.
You can Pacifism at instant speed.
And it works with our new best W enchantment!
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffStonehewer Giant is good[/c].
Leaving mana open, and then being able to use it, is good.
Not going to rock the boat, but it'll make a pretty splash.
O_O
This... is... amazing...
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Heh, nice. Necromancy for less mana without the sacrifice clause? I can live with that.
Another interesting one to have as an instant is Pattern of Rebirth. "Oh, you're killing my dude? Well, in that case, I'll just go find something better...."
It's a flashy card with some cute interactions, but I think it's a lot more niche than people are giving it credit for.
Sigarda’s Blessing – Probably good for 6-8 mana through the course of the game. Also, the possibility of some antics with Lightning Greaves or Swords in response to spot removal gives you a decent chance of it replacing itself.
Stunning Growth – You know a card is awesome when its realistic floor performance is equal to Ranger’s Path. For its performance at its realistic mean, it will probably be between 3-4 lands. Solid card for all 3-color Green decks, absolutely bonkers in Stax/MLD setups.
Mausoleum Wanderer – They’re pushing the power-level here on what’s an already somewhat playable line of cards (Judge’s Familiar, Cursecatcher). My feel is that turning it into a Spell Pierce /Mana Leak by strapping a Rancor or Sword to it will be relevant for a lot of EDH decks, maybe a Modern deck here and there also.
Apologies, I guess I didn't point out that yeah, it won't go in EVERY deck, but decks that are built to support it will LOVE this card. Like, I think any creature based decks could benefit from Lightning Greaves and such, and Swords of X and Y are just awesome, but yeah, they alone aren't enough to go with this card. But you actually bother include a lot of the above mentioned cards and focus the deck on an Enchantress or Equipment theme, then I think this card can do some wonders. Honestly, just getting that one surprise flash Equip or Aura removal/pump can swing a game if in the right place, so it doesn't take much for the card to do work, it just needs the deck to cooperate with it. So yeah, I definitely agree with you, it is niche, but it is an awesome niche, personally.
Now, the other cards you mentioned, specifically Leonin Shikari and Rootwater Shaman are both niche cards that do good things, but since this does both of those effects (to some extent) for a lot less mana and harder to remove, I think it deserves some good mention. Then again, I also really like the Shikari and the Shaman and would include them if I had the decks they would like built at the time.
Kaalia just became more annoying.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
I'm putting this in my kemba deck for sure. That's likely the only deck it's going in though.
Nahiri doesn't need the free equip and it's kind of meh if you already have puresteel. My other equipment heavy decks don't want this because drawing it late is pretty worthless and you need a lot of equipment for it to be useful.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Standstill is quite strong and used in a number of U/x decks that can afford to stall because it really hurts the player who breaks it (since everyone else draws three).
I don't think the new Lunar Force (or Hesitation) is nearly as good; you'll probably just end up countering someone's 2-mana ramp spell or mana rock or something that they throw away to get rid of it. That said, I think both are playable in Hanna, Ship's Navigator, and they also work well in a deck that runs Sun Titan. However, it's problematic in multiplayer that they (unlike Standstill) are going to make you really unpopular really fast, especially if you start recurring them.
lol. Perhaps I jumped the gun on that speculation. It just seems like it would evolve to fit into the criteria that doesn't let us play with the card.
"Produces Too Much Mana Too Quickly. Commander is a format about epic plays but the turn 10 epic play happening on turn 3 is deflating. Limited acceleration is good but we don't want the format to turn into "who can go off earliest" so we rein in large quantities of early mana." - Sheldon
I doubt this will enable the turn 10 play on turn 3. But newer players will likely gravitate to this card while likely taking offense to land destruction strategies and combo, which warps the dominance of the not to be criticized ramp based strategy. Now every tri color green deck has three of the one mana cycle lands, 9 fetches, life from the loam, and stunning Growth. Now people can build thier 86 other card G/X/x.
But seriously, the set hasn't even been released yet. And I wanna play with this card. So stop with all that ban talk!
Shreds of Sanity goes right into my Jaya Ballard, Task Mage spellslinger deck.
Also mono-red Trample is now a thing
Furyblade Vampire shows an old friend!
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Faith Unbroken: Turns a creature into a buffed Fiend Hunter. Fairly expensive for all the potential disadvantage it has, but being able to tack this onto a protection/hexproof/indestructible creature can make up for it, and it has a spot in voltron builds that are often just looking to buff their creature anyway ala Sigarda/Bruna/Uril.
Ironclad Slayer: an Auramancer who trades grabbing Oblivion Rings for grabbing equipment. As with Faith Unbroken, while not necessarily a better card than it's predecessors, the decks that do want it are much happier now. Also, having an extra point of power is always nice.
Thraben Standard Bearer: Two mana and a card might be a bit much to make a single token if you aren't using your graveyard in some way, but the fact that it's a human soldier makes it one of the most versatile tokens you could create with regards to tribal synergies.
Nebelgast Herald: A reasonable choice for spirit decks as a way to mess with attackers/blockers; though you'll want a fair amount of spirit tokens to really make use of it.
Scour the Laboratory: It's either just above or just below a Jace's Ingenuity, which means it's a reasonable choice if you think you can hit delirium.
Graf Harvest: Similar to the standard bearer, the costs involved in making a token might not be worthwhile as a simple token producer, but if you're focused on zombie tribal they'll do good work, even if it's mostly just a way to give your zombies menace.
Ruthless Disposal: A fairly costly card by all points (mana, discard, sacrifice), but being an almost guaranteed kill on two creatures could make it worthwhile if you can get value out of the discard or sacrifice.
Succumb to Temptation: An instant speed Sign in Blood is solid at three mana, though the scry from Read the Bones gives it some fair competition.
Shreds of Sanity: Pull from the Deep being available to non-U decks, and for cheaper? Sign me up, even if the discard mostly keeps it at card parity.
Clear Shot: Clean and efficient creature removal in green, especially because it still pairs well with deathtouch/lifelink effects.
Foul Emissary: It's interesting that they've made at least a few cards designed to play with emerge, and being a 3-cost creature is generally where you want to be if you want to emerge on curve. Outside of emerge decks, it's a bit overcosted for it's effect, but if your deck can get away with casting 3-cost 1/1s, it might still do some work.
It of the Horrid Swarm: It provides a 6/6s worth of bodies, and considering emerge usually wants you to be playing with sac-outlets and creatures that like to be sacrificed, having a couple of 1/1s may well be worth it just to keep the sacrifice chains going.
Mockery of Nature: If you've ever wanted a larger Indrik Stomphowler.
Vexing Scuttler: Pirate-Crab-Eldrazi-Ship! It's also a beefier Mnemonic Wall/Archaeomancer, if you're in need of both beef and spells.
Extricator of Sin: If you can get delirium set up, it seems like it would be fun to churn non-eldrazi into eldrazi. We'mrakul now folks!
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks
archetype of aggression came out a few years ago. There are probably some even older examples as well.
I'm liking some of the uncommons but it's hard to look at everyone's thoughts on the cards since the cardlinker isnt updated yet.
Follow me on instagram @TheMTGWord
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffRetired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Animated Lunar Force through Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx then give it Assault Suit = Opponents can never cast spells (unless they can't be countered). I believe the way its worded is that it doesn't need to be sacrificed to be countered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Two problems with this, I think. Lunar Force says "When an opponent" and since the animated enchantment is getting passed around by the Suit, I think it would just prevent people from casting spells on other people's turns. HOWEVER, I think not being able to sacrifice the enchantment does mean the spell isn't countered.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
You don't have to give away the Lunar Force. Assault Suit is a "may" ablility. I believe the way Lunar force is worded is much like Gitrog Frog, where you can cheat the sacrifice part with Assault Suit. The way you are saying, I believe it would have to be something along the lines of Blind Zealot, Breath of Fury, Furnace Scamp or hell something similar Standstill. where the sacrifice part is needed for the rest to go off.
So reaching that conclusion, this complicated combo is basically Erayo 2.0. In 3 cards (Or more if you use Starfield of Nyx).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis