Is it just me or is this set really pushing the cost for creatures aggressively. It seems that every creature that has been spoiled is very cheap for their power level. Even the commons and uns. Another thing is that everything is small effects and small bodies. That said, I really like Prized Amalgam as a solid include along side the usual suspects.
Looking at the standard format they're entering into, it's not too surprising that the creatures are aggressively costed. Innistrad's creatures will have to fight through the thopters and flip-walkers of Origins, as well as the allies and low-cost eldrazi of Zendikar; that's a lot to compare to if you want to remain relevant. Beyond that, the set itself is putting some pressure on how potent it's creatures will end up being, as the Transform mechanic makes cheaper creatures better, removing some of the need for more expensive cards, while forcing non-transform creatures to sit in the line between an equivalent transform card's two sides. Also, it's not as though Innistrad 1.0 ever slouched in terms of cheap creature quality (Snapcaster, Saint Traft, Vampires, Zombies, etc.) .
As for new cards:
The Gitrog Monster: A legendary frog horror is reason enough for people to run this, but they did a great job with him such that I'd be tempted to swap commanders if I didn't like Glissa so much. Exploration on a Commander is solid already (see Mina&Denn/Azusa), but cantripping off of lands hitting the grave makes him a great friend to cards like Life from the Loam and Titania. Having to sacrifice lands each turn does prevent him from being a proper ramp Commander, but there are plenty of ways around that minor downside. He's also a 6/6 deathtouch, which lets him fight anything that isn't titan/wurmcoil levels of size without issue (and trade with anything that's bigger still).
Vessel Cycle: Vessel of Volatility gets some friends, which should have been expected. Vessel of Ephemera provides spirit tokens for enchantress decks looking to churn enchantments in/out of the graveyard. Vessel of Paramnesia provides targeted milling and a cantrip, while Vessel of Malignity provides discard at sorcery speed. Vessel of Nascency is likely the most exciting of the gang, snagging you a card so long as you don't hit a batch of instants/sorceries, & pitches whatever you don't pick to the graveyard to help with delirium/*insert preferred graveyard shenanigans here*.
As a note, I believe with the wording as it is, if multiple lands are put into your graveyard at the same time (say, from Golgari Grave-Troll dredging 6), you only get one draw. Little bit harder to chain, but not much.
Yeah, I caught after that it's one card regardless of how many lands get milled, but that doesn't matter. Most dredge cards give you an average or above average chance to keep going, but once you dredge into the grave-troll, or that imp, the chances of whiffing on at least one land hit is stupidly low. And if you do stall out, you can simply discard another land, or simply sacrifice another land.
Once you hit life from the loam, even if you have to wait a turn cycle, the extra lands in hand to fuel the combo is insane. Heck, since a discard outlet turns every land into free cycling, simply using Life from the Loam with no other combo intent is a huge combo swing. 1G: draw 2 cards, buyback 0? Especially since the dredge buyback alone is highly likely to get you a 3rd card?
Ew.
My first thoughts on him were "Awesome! A new exploration commander, giving more color variety options!" My second thought was "Huh. From anywhere? I guess it's a cool dredge commander" to "Oh god, it doesn't stop" to "He gives free landcycling... oh god... it doesn't stop" to "Whelp, here's another free combo enabler"
In less than 5 minutes.
I mean, Griselbrand proved that even high cost commanders can be powered out quickly, so it's not like this guy is unreliable to drop T3 or 4 easily. or earlier for the combo-nefarious, though he does need a lot more moving parts, which may be his saving grace.
Sigh, I love my Titania deck but Gitrog is absolute value. I might have to make the plunge and add black. Worm Harvest might be worth experimenting but uncertain if I want all of that kept in my graveyard.
Black does have tutors though. I suppose adding some to get Titania wouldn't hurt.
The Gitrog Monster is insane. Saccing a land on the upkeep is a harsh cost, but he more than makes up for it. Aside from the land drop effect, and extra card draw per turn, he'll play amazingly well with fetch lands, allowing you to redraw a grip very quickly. Not only that, but the "From anywhere" makes this guy a dredge-combo commander like no other. Once you start dredging, you simply don't stop... Toss a discard outlet in there, and he can dredge your entire deck the turn he hits the field. That's kinda... dumb.
If he was simply from play, I'd say he's crazy good and strong - CA in the command zone is bonkers. The From Anywhere though... that's broken. I can see him as a new Hermit Druid, in the Command Zone. Easily. To the point that I'm already expecting a ban, for being Hermit druid.
For reference, assume a deck with 40 lands, or at least higher than 33. This means that you will get a land into GY roughly on each dredge of 3 or more cards. So, you get Life from the Loam, Golgari Grave-Troll, or any other card with dredge 3+ in the GY. You crack a fetch land (since he lets you drop an extra land to boot), or simply discard a land to a discard outlet. Draw, but replace with dedge. If a land gets dredged, it triggers a new draw. Discard the dredge card in response to the triggers. Dredge again. and again. and again. Do your GY combo thing.
If you stall out... just discard another land.
The vessels are great. They're not super cheap for what they do, but being Sun Titanable is great. I especially like the green and blue ones, since they give CA, but the white one can see play, since it's in Sun Titan colors. I'm sure plenty an enchantress deck is happy to see more self-sacrificing enchantments for effects.
Frog seems like a pretty good include for any dredge deck that runs LabMan. But I hesitate to really consider it OP at this point. The cmc is pretty high and he needs a lot of other parts on his own.
LOL The forgotten creation with Damia might be loads of fun me thinks. Pitch your hand, refill your hand, discard some stuff to an outlet, refill your hand to 7. Dredge all day.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
I would've found a use it somewhere just for being a freakin' Frog Horror.
...let's just say that this thing does something stupid with like a good third of the cards in my "lands matter" Damia deck and leave it there. It will blow up games and I fully expect it to become a "kill on sight" target rather quickly.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Any free discard outlet goes infinite with the Toad and Dakmor Salvage. Oblivion Crown can make a creature as large as you want, Land's Edge and Seismic Assault are a kill, and Mind over Matter gets another new toy. This thing is hilarious.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Forgotten Creation could be fun somewhere. 3U for a 3/3 zombie with skulk, may Tolarian Winds on upkeep. I'm sure there are GY focused decks out there that can make use of that kind of hand turnover.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I think people underestimate how strong the Gitrog Monster can be. In competitive he can easily kill the turn he is cast if you can start a dredge-chain, and with black there are a few ways to get him out even T1. It should be possible to mill your deck most of the time especially with a sac outlet. From that point on there are a variety of win conditions. Zombies (Bridge From Below/Zombie Infestation) sacced to Dread Return an Eternal Witness bringing back Victimize for Mike + Trike. Dread Return a Necrotic Ooze with either Quillspike + Devoted Druid (Skirge Familiar for infinite black) or graveyard shuffle + Phyrexian Devourer + Trike. Creeping Renaissance lands back to your hand then discard till you get an Eldrazi-reset, then draw your library.
Any free discard outlet goes infinite with the Toad and Dakmor Salvage. Oblivion Crown can make a creature as large as you want, Land's Edge and Seismic Assault are a kill, and Mind over Matter gets another new toy. This thing is hilarious.
I hadn't considered that angle as well. Guess I've got two decks that want to play with the hypnotoad.
Looking at the standard format they're entering into, it's not too surprising that the creatures are aggressively costed. Innistrad's creatures will have to fight through the thopters and flip-walkers of Origins, as well as the allies and low-cost eldrazi of Zendikar; that's a lot to compare to if you want to remain relevant. Beyond that, the set itself is putting some pressure on how potent it's creatures will end up being, as the Transform mechanic makes cheaper creatures better, removing some of the need for more expensive cards, while forcing non-transform creatures to sit in the line between an equivalent transform card's two sides. Also, it's not as though Innistrad 1.0 ever slouched in terms of cheap creature quality (Snapcaster, Saint Traft, Vampires, Zombies, etc.) .
As for new cards:
The Gitrog Monster: A legendary frog horror is reason enough for people to run this, but they did a great job with him such that I'd be tempted to swap commanders if I didn't like Glissa so much. Exploration on a Commander is solid already (see Mina&Denn/Azusa), but cantripping off of lands hitting the grave makes him a great friend to cards like Life from the Loam and Titania. Having to sacrifice lands each turn does prevent him from being a proper ramp Commander, but there are plenty of ways around that minor downside. He's also a 6/6 deathtouch, which lets him fight anything that isn't titan/wurmcoil levels of size without issue (and trade with anything that's bigger still).
Vessel Cycle: Vessel of Volatility gets some friends, which should have been expected. Vessel of Ephemera provides spirit tokens for enchantress decks looking to churn enchantments in/out of the graveyard. Vessel of Paramnesia provides targeted milling and a cantrip, while Vessel of Malignity provides discard at sorcery speed. Vessel of Nascency is likely the most exciting of the gang, snagging you a card so long as you don't hit a batch of instants/sorceries, & pitches whatever you don't pick to the graveyard to help with delirium/*insert preferred graveyard shenanigans here*.
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks
Nath'd.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Once you hit life from the loam, even if you have to wait a turn cycle, the extra lands in hand to fuel the combo is insane. Heck, since a discard outlet turns every land into free cycling, simply using Life from the Loam with no other combo intent is a huge combo swing. 1G: draw 2 cards, buyback 0? Especially since the dredge buyback alone is highly likely to get you a 3rd card?
Ew.
My first thoughts on him were "Awesome! A new exploration commander, giving more color variety options!" My second thought was "Huh. From anywhere? I guess it's a cool dredge commander" to "Oh god, it doesn't stop" to "He gives free landcycling... oh god... it doesn't stop" to "Whelp, here's another free combo enabler"
In less than 5 minutes.
I mean, Griselbrand proved that even high cost commanders can be powered out quickly, so it's not like this guy is unreliable to drop T3 or 4 easily. or earlier for the combo-nefarious, though he does need a lot more moving parts, which may be his saving grace.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Black does have tutors though. I suppose adding some to get Titania wouldn't hurt.
Dammit i wished i had Crucible of Worlds and more fetchlands :/
Valid point!
Here it is more properly formatted:
Blessed Wind(opp to 20 life)/Vedalken Orrery(can play nonland at instant speed)/Triskaidekaphobia
Drain Life(drain opp to 13 life)/Repay in Kind(Everyone has 13 life)/Any Painland(I get down to 12)
GG.
Why not just discard outlet + Dakmor Salvage?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Because... SHUT UP! that's why!
You know, because that would actually be smart, which I am probably not.
I posted an awful decklist, to get the idea rolling:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/680594-the-gitrog-monster-combo-no-hermit-needed
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
...let's just say that this thing does something stupid with like a good third of the cards in my "lands matter" Damia deck and leave it there. It will blow up games and I fully expect it to become a "kill on sight" target rather quickly.
I've long wanted to make a deck that runs Squandered Resources plus Natural Balance, so I'm tempted here. I don't think I'll actually do it, though.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Some unknown cards that might work really well with the toad + discard outlet: Rites of Spring. Insidious Dreams, Nostalgic Dreams, Raven's Crime etc.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I really like Forgotten Creation too. A reasonably priced zombie with a synergistic ability is always welcome.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I hadn't considered that angle as well. Guess I've got two decks that want to play with the hypnotoad.
Vessel of Nascency is cool too. It would be quite nice in my Pharika enchantress deck.
Golgari rules