I just realized this. Oh man, this might get fantastic. Absolute excellent with Tamiyo's Journal. Tutor for a beater, then put it into play! Wow...
Not the best idea. Patrol triggers at end step so the beater has to survive to your turn to make an impact. Best to get some high value ETB creature, a combo piece that doesn't need to tap to do its job or a lockdown/protection creature.
Sounds like a lot of fun in some grixis aggro deck like Thrax. 10 mana to give your creatures flying and haste and get a full new grip. Seems good for decks that don't just win on 10 mana.
Separate from that, if BtB was instant it might be borderline playable in high end combo decks. But a 7 cmc sorcery to tutor your combo is pretty weak for most good combo decks. I would hope that even most casual decks can deal with whatever gets tutored up by any deck willing to run this. So it seems like a pretty good casual EDH card.
So far I'm mostly only excited about new Jace, new and improved Steam Augury and new (and in my opinion improved for EDH) Vindicate. Maybe Pieces of the Puzzle. But I wish it was instant. Still, should be good for Mizzix or any storm deck.
The number of ways to win before hitting 7 mana is astounding. And any deck wanting to abuse it will have opponents that don't just let it tap out for 7 at Sorcery without getting punished. In fact, most casual tables will be able to either deal with it, or deal with what comes out.
There are too many players in this format who feel violated by any combo, ever, no matter how inefficient it is or how late it comes out. It could be after everyone has seen half of their deck, and they'd still feel cheated. That crowd can happily just not play this card, just as happily as they aren't playing to the rest of the card pool to begin with.
[card]There are too many players in this format who feel violated by any combo, ever, no matter how inefficient it is or how late it comes out. It could be after everyone has seen half of their deck, and they'd still feel cheated. That crowd can happily just not play this card, just as happily as they aren't playing to the rest of the card pool to begin with.
Your whole post perfectly sums up my opinion on the card but I really love this paragraph. I understand hatred of cheap combos that win in the early turns. But I've always felt some of the hatred towards inefficient combo is hypocritical and irrational.
[card]There are too many players in this format who feel violated by any combo, ever, no matter how inefficient it is or how late it comes out. It could be after everyone has seen half of their deck, and they'd still feel cheated. That crowd can happily just not play this card, just as happily as they aren't playing to the rest of the card pool to begin with.
Your whole post perfectly sums up my opinion on the card but I really love this paragraph. I understand hatred of cheap combos that win in the early turns. But I've always felt some of the hatred towards inefficient combo is hypocritical and irrational.
You're forgetting that EDH is the format where the way I play is the only correct way, screw you for playing something different.
I mean, we're talking about the player base that hates Stax because it doesn't let people play how they want, so they "ban" Stax, causing people to not be able to play how they want.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Wow! Parallel Evolution gets an upgrade in Second Harvest! Sure, you lose the flashback, but one sided, cheaper cost, and instant. Sweet heavenlyness. EDIT: and it copies ALL tokens, not just creatures! Clue population and Mirrorworks madness ahoy!
Love ya bob.
I feel the exact same about Second Harvest. I've had a Populate deck for quite a while but keep taking it apart for lack of a good Bant general for it. But between this card and Blade of Selves who needs the blue of Bant?! Tokens be coming. People better have their Aether Snaps.
And he fact that it doubles Clues and non-creature tokens is a really nice bonus.
I feel the exact same about Second Harvest. I've had a Populate deck for quite a while but keep taking it apart for lack of a good Bant general for it. But between this card and Blade of Selves who needs the blue of Bant?! Tokens be coming. People better have their Aether Snaps.
And he fact that it doubles Clues and non-creature tokens is a really nice bonus.
And I love you too!
Yeah, I'm still a bit iffy on it, since it needs a board to do more stuff, so I don't know if Trostani would be the place for it, but I've greatly enjoyed Mirroworks in a lot of decks, but never made a green deck with it. I'm almost tempted to find convoluted ways (it's not really that hard) to make land tokens as well.
Not the best idea. Patrol triggers at end step so the beater has to survive to your turn to make an impact. Best to get some high value ETB creature, a combo piece that doesn't need to tap to do its job or a lockdown/protection creature.
Patrol triggers at each end step, not just your end step. As long as you have the clues and the ability to sac them you can use it to flash in something eot right before you untap. You could drop a creature per player at the table given enough clues. I assume that virtually any play you could make is game winning in that scenario, because you're obviously playing against your stuffed animals if you have that much of a resource advantage, but it's technically possible.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I agree that having to actually have a decent board to make Second Harvest good is an issue, but it's quite easy to build up a few Rampaging Baloth 4/4's (for example) without scaring people into a Wrath. Then the instant speed of Harvest makes a moderate board into a killer. It really craves blue mana for Reef Wurm 9/9 Kraken tokens, lol, but what's really going to be hot is conspiring it with Wort, the Raidmother.
I agree that having to actually have a decent board to make Second Harvest good is an issue, but it's quite easy to build up a few Rampaging Baloth 4/4's (for example) without scaring people into a Wrath. Then the instant speed of Harvest makes a moderate board into a killer. It really craves blue mana for Reef Wurm 9/9 Kraken tokens, lol, but what's really going to be hot is conspiring it with Wort, the Raidmother.
Patrol is intriguing as can be. This set keeps getting better and better.
It really wants blue for Cackling Counterpart, Dance of Many, and Rite of Replication tokens. copying copies is amazing value. But even in non-blue, that path is achievable, as my Trostani deck is proof of that.
===
There are already a fair number of cards that tack draw power onto existing cards, and I think that one of them actually can from original INN... Lunar Mystic? Did I get it? so Pieces of the Puzzle isn't new in that regard. However, the delayed payments can be nice, as well as having Krark-clan Ironworks or Clock of Omens fodder for insane mana generation makes the spell slinging value go WAY up. They're almost more valuable simply for being artifacts, and the break-glass-emergency card draw is sweet gravy stapled on.
Pieces of the Puzzle alone wants me to make a "Mizzix Gets a Clue" deck. It would likely go infinite. With Clues.
There are already a fair number of cards that tack draw power onto existing cards, and I think that one of them actually can from original INN... Lunar Mystic? Did I get it? so Pieces of the Puzzle isn't new in that regard. However, the delayed payments can be nice, as well as having Krark-clan Ironworks or Clock of Omens fodder for insane mana generation makes the spell slinging value go WAY up. They're almost more valuable simply for being artifacts, and the break-glass-emergency card draw is sweet gravy stapled on.
Pieces of the Puzzle alone wants me to make a "Mizzix Gets a Clue" deck. It would likely go infinite. With Clues.
You're thinking of Trail of Evidence, which I agree with you completely on. Pieces of the Puzzle is decent instant/sorcery dig. Both of them are likely to make it into many of my spell focused decks in the future.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
There are already a fair number of cards that tack draw power onto existing cards, and I think that one of them actually can from original INN... Lunar Mystic? Did I get it? so Pieces of the Puzzle isn't new in that regard. However, the delayed payments can be nice, as well as having Krark-clan Ironworks or Clock of Omens fodder for insane mana generation makes the spell slinging value go WAY up. They're almost more valuable simply for being artifacts, and the break-glass-emergency card draw is sweet gravy stapled on.
Pieces of the Puzzle alone wants me to make a "Mizzix Gets a Clue" deck. It would likely go infinite. With Clues.
You're thinking of Trail of Evidence, which I agree with you completely on. Pieces of the Puzzle is decent instant/sorcery dig. Both of them are likely to make it into many of my spell focused decks in the future.
Whoops! Yup!
And yes, Pieces of the Puzzle then is still fantastic for spellslingers. I remember looking at that one too. While it has a 'chance' to whiff (need to run the numbers on spell counts), a 2u for 2 cards is standard sorcery draw, and this gives selection mitigated by the chance of failure. So. Highly positive as if you run a high enough count to mitigate the failure.
You're thinking of Trail of Evidence, which I agree with you completely on. Pieces of the Puzzle is decent instant/sorcery dig. Both of them are likely to make it into many of my spell focused decks in the future.
Yeah, seems pretty good in spell slinger decks where you have a decent chance of hitting 2-3 instant/sorcery on the reveal. I just wish it was instant. Then it would almost be an auto include in almost all my blue decks. As a sorcery it will probably go in Mizzix and get tested in others.
Obsessive Skinner seems like pretty sweet for my counter-loving Dromoka. One counter a turn might not seem like much, but then I read the card again and realized it's each opponent's upkeep. Delirium, I think, will happen almost accidentally in your average EDH game anyway.
Confirm Suspicions seems pretty nice. Counterspells with extra are always funsies (to the one playing them, anyway).
...and yes, Second Harvest is nuts in your average dedicated token deck. Going to have difficulty deciding which of them deserves it the most.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
looking at my T&L list, I run 39 spells in the last updated list, which is just barely enough to hit the 40% for the Pieces of the Puzzle, that said, you're guaranteed to get gas though, unlike a draw 2, which might only get you lands or filler.
Indeed, and if you're casting Pieces for 2 mana or even thanks to Goblin Electromancer and friends, well that's just a big bowl of strawberry ice cream.
Traverse the Ulvenwald seems amazing, and maybe I missed the discussion on it. It's a one-mana deck-thinner/mana-fixer early, and a ridiculously-cheap tutor later. It'll be played in all the formats for years, so I feel like I should pre-order it now.
[card]There are too many players in this format who feel violated by any combo, ever, no matter how inefficient it is or how late it comes out. It could be after everyone has seen half of their deck, and they'd still feel cheated. That crowd can happily just not play this card, just as happily as they aren't playing to the rest of the card pool to begin with.
Your whole post perfectly sums up my opinion on the card but I really love this paragraph. I understand hatred of cheap combos that win in the early turns. But I've always felt some of the hatred towards inefficient combo is hypocritical and irrational.
You're forgetting that EDH is the format where the way I play is the only correct way, screw you for playing something different.
I mean, we're talking about the player base that hates Stax because it doesn't let people play how they want, so they "ban" Stax, causing people to not be able to play how they want.
You're forgetting that EDH is the format where the way I play is the only correct way, screw you for playing something different.
I mean, we're talking about the player base that hates Stax because it doesn't let people play how they want, so they "ban" Stax, causing people to not be able to play how they want.
I'm genuinely confused. How is Stax "banned?"
By you guys it's not.
By your player base, who even on this very forum use the method of "Simply tell them they are not welcome to play with you anymore if they refuse to use a different deck", it most certainly is.
Hence the quotation marks around the word ban; it's not banned, but for all intents and purposes it might as well be for most of the people who play EDH.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Hopefully we're be getting Green Non-Creature cards that generate clue tokens (That deck doesn't run creature cards), but I might even consider Tamiyo's Journal for that deck now solely because of Second Harvest.
Not the best idea. Patrol triggers at end step so the beater has to survive to your turn to make an impact. Best to get some high value ETB creature, a combo piece that doesn't need to tap to do its job or a lockdown/protection creature.
Sounds like a lot of fun in some grixis aggro deck like Thrax. 10 mana to give your creatures flying and haste and get a full new grip. Seems good for decks that don't just win on 10 mana.
Separate from that, if BtB was instant it might be borderline playable in high end combo decks. But a 7 cmc sorcery to tutor your combo is pretty weak for most good combo decks. I would hope that even most casual decks can deal with whatever gets tutored up by any deck willing to run this. So it seems like a pretty good casual EDH card.
So far I'm mostly only excited about new Jace, new and improved Steam Augury and new (and in my opinion improved for EDH) Vindicate. Maybe Pieces of the Puzzle. But I wish it was instant. Still, should be good for Mizzix or any storm deck.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
The number of ways to win before hitting 7 mana is astounding. And any deck wanting to abuse it will have opponents that don't just let it tap out for 7 at Sorcery without getting punished. In fact, most casual tables will be able to either deal with it, or deal with what comes out.
There are too many players in this format who feel violated by any combo, ever, no matter how inefficient it is or how late it comes out. It could be after everyone has seen half of their deck, and they'd still feel cheated. That crowd can happily just not play this card, just as happily as they aren't playing to the rest of the card pool to begin with.
Your whole post perfectly sums up my opinion on the card but I really love this paragraph. I understand hatred of cheap combos that win in the early turns. But I've always felt some of the hatred towards inefficient combo is hypocritical and irrational.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
You're forgetting that EDH is the format where the way I play is the only correct way, screw you for playing something different.
I mean, we're talking about the player base that hates Stax because it doesn't let people play how they want, so they "ban" Stax, causing people to not be able to play how they want.
Love ya bob.
I feel the exact same about Second Harvest. I've had a Populate deck for quite a while but keep taking it apart for lack of a good Bant general for it. But between this card and Blade of Selves who needs the blue of Bant?! Tokens be coming. People better have their Aether Snaps.
And he fact that it doubles Clues and non-creature tokens is a really nice bonus.
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StaffAnd I love you too!
Yeah, I'm still a bit iffy on it, since it needs a board to do more stuff, so I don't know if Trostani would be the place for it, but I've greatly enjoyed Mirroworks in a lot of decks, but never made a green deck with it. I'm almost tempted to find convoluted ways (it's not really that hard) to make land tokens as well.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I agree that having to actually have a decent board to make Second Harvest good is an issue, but it's quite easy to build up a few Rampaging Baloth 4/4's (for example) without scaring people into a Wrath. Then the instant speed of Harvest makes a moderate board into a killer. It really craves blue mana for Reef Wurm 9/9 Kraken tokens, lol, but what's really going to be hot is conspiring it with Wort, the Raidmother.
I just saw Pieces of the Puzzle and Briarbridge Patrol. Love the former for Tibor and Lumia Izzet spellslinger.
Patrol is intriguing as can be. This set keeps getting better and better.
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StaffIt really wants blue for Cackling Counterpart, Dance of Many, and Rite of Replication tokens.
===
There are already a fair number of cards that tack draw power onto existing cards, and I think that one of them actually can from original INN... Lunar Mystic? Did I get it? so Pieces of the Puzzle isn't new in that regard. However, the delayed payments can be nice, as well as having Krark-clan Ironworks or Clock of Omens fodder for insane mana generation makes the spell slinging value go WAY up. They're almost more valuable simply for being artifacts, and the break-glass-emergency card draw is sweet gravy stapled on.
Pieces of the Puzzle alone wants me to make a "Mizzix Gets a Clue" deck. It would likely go infinite. With Clues.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffAnd yes, Pieces of the Puzzle then is still fantastic for spellslingers. I remember looking at that one too. While it has a 'chance' to whiff (need to run the numbers on spell counts), a 2u for 2 cards is standard sorcery draw, and this gives selection mitigated by the chance of failure. So. Highly positive as if you run a high enough count to mitigate the failure.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Yeah, seems pretty good in spell slinger decks where you have a decent chance of hitting 2-3 instant/sorcery on the reveal. I just wish it was instant. Then it would almost be an auto include in almost all my blue decks. As a sorcery it will probably go in Mizzix and get tested in others.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Confirm Suspicions seems pretty nice. Counterspells with extra are always funsies (to the one playing them, anyway).
...and yes, Second Harvest is nuts in your average dedicated token deck. Going to have difficulty deciding which of them deserves it the most.
That settles it. I'm building that right now, lol.
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I'm genuinely confused. How is Stax "banned?"
I think they just mean that casual groups pressure people away from building stax or things like it.
By you guys it's not.
By your player base, who even on this very forum use the method of "Simply tell them they are not welcome to play with you anymore if they refuse to use a different deck", it most certainly is.
Hence the quotation marks around the word ban; it's not banned, but for all intents and purposes it might as well be for most of the people who play EDH.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Hopefully we're be getting Green Non-Creature cards that generate clue tokens (That deck doesn't run creature cards), but I might even consider Tamiyo's Journal for that deck now solely because of Second Harvest.
I really hope that this flavor text is a typo on the part of whoever submitted.