I strongly disagree. Although I'm personally quite the fan of Grasp of Fate, they're two very different cards. Grasp of Fate hits every opponent for one target, while Quarantine Field hits one opponent for multiple targets.
Are you sure about that? I'm reading quarantine field, and it looks to me like it can hit multiple opponents. It doesn't care which opponent you exile from, so long as you exile an opponent's stuff.
I strongly disagree. Although I'm personally quite the fan of Grasp of Fate, they're two very different cards. Grasp of Fate hits every opponent for one target, while Quarantine Field hits one opponent for multiple targets.
Are you sure about that? I'm reading quarantine field, and it looks to me like it can hit multiple opponents. It doesn't care which opponent you exile from, so long as you exile an opponent's stuff.
Yeah, you can exile the stuff of several opponents. The point he made is valid, though. But dumping XX into the exile effect, only to see it getting destroyed a short amount of time later is... frustrating.
I'm not 100% sure but I think you can cheat more counter onto quarantine field via profilerate.
Field ETBs with 1 counter, repond to the "second" trigger with something like contagion engine's ability[/card]. Get two counters and exile 2 things instead of one.
Ok, Arjun, the Shifting Flame is dissapointment for me. Because you will draw less and less card for each spell.. I was secretly hoping for artifact general.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
Ok, Arjun, the Shifting Flame is dissapointment for me. Because you will draw less and less card for each spell.. I was secretly hoping for artifact general.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
I agree on Arjun, but are we talking about the same Mizzix? That card's quite possibly one of the strongest Izzet generals.
Ok, Arjun, the Shifting Flame is dissapointment for me. Because you will draw less and less card for each spell.. I was secretly hoping for artifact general.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
You just need to include effficient draw.
I've long held the idea that EDH is mostly a game about card access. In general, the idea is that the person who gets to see the most cards out of their deck, whether those cards are in hand, in play, or in the graveyard, is usually doing better than a person who sees less. Shifting Flame lets you see a lot of cards. The only downside is that it costs six mana, which is disappointing to me. I think the effect would have been fairly costed at 2UR, on a 3/3 flier.
I'm generally opposed to high costed legendaries in commander products though. Part of the fun of commander is actually casting your commander. Forcing the player to wait 2 to 3 turns not because of any tactical reason, but because they simply can't afford to cast it is lame.
That was actually part of why I liked the last commander set so much. Pretty much all the command zone interacting legendaries were cheap (Oloro is the notable exception, but he isn't meant to be cast anyways). All of those commanders felt much more powerful than the current offerings do. Sure WotC got burned on derevi, which was stupid, but the lesson to take from the last commander product wasn't to release watered down swill, it was to release powerful effects that didn't break the command tax rule.
Meren of Clan Nel Toth makes my inner Golgari run around like a hyperactive child on a post Halloween sugar rush. Green and black is my favorite pair of colors, and I've always liked playing two color over three color wedges. That and she's probably the best of the experience counter commanders spoiled, with that R/W giant being dead last in my own mind unless WoTC did something very creative with the deck. Love how they reprinted Gisela, Blade of GoldNight right after buying her for the R/W deck, though. Talk about a waste.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Edit: I do get the disappointment that it isn't the R/U artifact commander that everyone was hoping for. I think if they had just made it read "Legendary Artifact Creature - Sphinx" it would have mollified a lot of people.
Ok, Arjun, the Shifting Flame is dissapointment for me. Because you will draw less and less card for each spell.. I was secretly hoping for artifact general.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
I agree on Arjun, but are we talking about the same Mizzix? That card's quite possibly one of the strongest Izzet generals.
Mizzix os strong. Arjun is massively disappointing.
RU artifact general. A lot of people really want it, and I don't see it happening any time soon. The next Zendikar set? Very unlikely. Innistrad II? Seems also very unlikely, though I suppose a mad scientist making killer robots could show up there. Next year's Commander set won't feature RU at all, so no chance there.
I believe Commander 2015 was designed before Origins came out, and Origins really lit the fires of demand for a UR artifact commander.
I think expecting one in this product was setting yourselves up for disappointment.
People have been calling for a UR artifact commander for a few years now, and the previous core set also featured some cards that ramped up that interest. Two years of foreplay, and it ends up just being a tease.
Ok, Arjun, the Shifting Flame is dissapointment for me. Because you will draw less and less card for each spell.. I was secretly hoping for artifact general.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
You just need to include effficient draw.
I've long held the idea that EDH is mostly a game about card access. In general, the idea is that the person who gets to see the most cards out of their deck, whether those cards are in hand, in play, or in the graveyard, is usually doing better than a person who sees less. Shifting Flame lets you see a lot of cards. The only downside is that it costs six mana, which is disappointing to me. I think the effect would have been fairly costed at 2UR, on a 3/3 flier.
This is not only true of EDH it is true of Magic the Gathering as a game, it is the secret sauce, more draw, more information is always better than less.
I'm generally opposed to high costed legendaries in commander products though. Part of the fun of commander is actually casting your commander. Forcing the player to wait 2 to 3 turns not because of any tactical reason, but because they simply can't afford to cast it is lame.
That was actually part of why I liked the last commander set so much. Pretty much all the command zone interacting legendaries were cheap (Oloro is the notable exception, but he isn't meant to be cast anyways). All of those commanders felt much more powerful than the current offerings do. Sure WotC got burned on derevi, which was stupid, but the lesson to take from the last commander product wasn't to release watered down swill, it was to release powerful effects that didn't break the command tax rule.
I disagree with this, a bunch of these guys are extremely favorably costed creatures for what they do. The only one that is iffy is Mizzix because being a 2/2 for 4 mana is rough. Still he and Ezuri and Meren are going to put up good fights with both the 2011 and 2013 offerings and maybe some of the others will ssssssurprise.
I love it when they print cards like Thought's Urn a bad card with a fantastic effect that will get a bunch of people to run it for a month until it becomes a dead draw all the time.
Pathbreaker Ibex is the goat that nobody asked for, but we all deserved in the end. Plus cloning shenanigans means each goat's buff stacks and gets stronger with each use.
Corpse Augur is...interesting, to say the least. It's a surprising bit of draw for black, despite having a nice body for the CMC. Might test in a few decks.
Karlov is a pretty sweet new Orzhov general. Should head up a lifegain/drain deck pretty nicely, much like Vish Kal did in the past.
Bloodspore Thrinax I can see just getting really ridiculous with stuff like Doubling Season and Strength of the Tajuru.
Daxos' Torment is...pretty lame. If no one plays Halcyon Glaze or any of the Hidden enchantments, why the hell would you ever want to play this?
Arjun reminds me a lot of Nekusar in terms of build style, except Arjun only works with effects that trigger from you drawing. It seems like you could build a sweet mill deck with him, using stuff like Sphinx's Tutelage and Jace's Erasure.
Righteous Confluence is...vexing. At first glance, it seems pretty terrible. However, this one in particular seems like you'll get the most bang for your buck going all-in on a single effect. Exiling three enchantments, getting 3 2/2 vigilance guys with a relevant creature type, or gaining 15 life for five mana all seem fine. I won't play it, but maybe another deck can find a reason to slot it in.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Anyone who thinks Arjun is disappointing hasn't tried Mindmoil. Here I thought Mizzix was the Izzet storm general, and then they reveal this thing.
I know the impact isn't obvious, but an effect like Arjun lets you cheat deckbuilding so much. For example, if you're trying to storm normally, you need a critical mass of the right things in your hand. Which means every counter or removal spell you put in the deck is one more thing to get stuck in your hand when you're trying to go nuts. You can flip your hand with a simple cantrip. And with a deck with plenty of answers, living long enough to drop Arjun (with protection in hand) isn't hard. And winning the turn after will not be difficult. What a promising general that really, really deserves to cost 6.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
It might be fairly obvious, but Corpse Augur seems really good to me in Marchesa. Apart from the life loss working in your favor to keep your dethrone up, the wizard creature type is relevant with Sage of Fables, which as it turns out, is one of the more powerful enablers that Marchesa has access to.
Anyone who thinks Arjun is disappointing hasn't tried Mindmoil. Here I thought Mizzix was the Izzet storm general, and then they reveal this thing.
I know the impact isn't obvious, but an effect like Arjun lets you cheat deckbuilding so much. For example, if you're trying to storm normally, you need a critical mass of the right things in your hand. Which means every counter or removal spell you put in the deck is one more thing to get stuck in your hand when you're trying to go nuts. You can flip your hand with a simple cantrip. And with a deck with plenty of answers, living long enough to drop Arjun (with protection in hand) isn't hard. And winning the turn after will not be difficult. What a promising general that really, really deserves to cost 6.
*shrug* My disappointment isn't that Arjun is bad per se. My disappointment is, UR got a really good spellslinger general, plus another really good spellslinger general, when there are already some good UR spellslinger generals. The storm thing, that's fine and good, and yeah, Arjun will probably rock at that, but that isn't the sort of thing that me or most of the people I play with are really looking to do when we play EDH.
Both Boros and Izzet got, essentially, "more of the same." Some of it (not the Boros angel) is *really good* more of the same, granted, but some things that were a little more different in those colors would have been nice. In comparison, Orzhov got an enchantment general - something not really expected - and a general who looks to be really good for combo lifegain/voltron strategies, of all things. Not to mention a really good option for the Duel Commander folk. That's different and more interesting.
I love it when they print cards like Thought's Urn a bad card with a fantastic effect that will get a bunch of people to run it for a month until it becomes a dead draw all the time.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffRetired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Are you sure about that? I'm reading quarantine field, and it looks to me like it can hit multiple opponents. It doesn't care which opponent you exile from, so long as you exile an opponent's stuff.
Field ETBs with 1 counter, repond to the "second" trigger with something like contagion engine's ability[/card]. Get two counters and exile 2 things instead of one.
This year, boros + izzet are pure meh and I wont get them. Shame shame.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
You just need to include effficient draw.
I've long held the idea that EDH is mostly a game about card access. In general, the idea is that the person who gets to see the most cards out of their deck, whether those cards are in hand, in play, or in the graveyard, is usually doing better than a person who sees less. Shifting Flame lets you see a lot of cards. The only downside is that it costs six mana, which is disappointing to me. I think the effect would have been fairly costed at 2UR, on a 3/3 flier.
I'm generally opposed to high costed legendaries in commander products though. Part of the fun of commander is actually casting your commander. Forcing the player to wait 2 to 3 turns not because of any tactical reason, but because they simply can't afford to cast it is lame.
That was actually part of why I liked the last commander set so much. Pretty much all the command zone interacting legendaries were cheap (Oloro is the notable exception, but he isn't meant to be cast anyways). All of those commanders felt much more powerful than the current offerings do. Sure WotC got burned on derevi, which was stupid, but the lesson to take from the last commander product wasn't to release watered down swill, it was to release powerful effects that didn't break the command tax rule.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
She can combo with storm + Psychosis Crawler, Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind(probably the other commander), Sphinx's Tutelage
But I don't know if her mana cost will help a lot, I found her ability awesome to make some interactions. Nekusar is probably better.
Edit: I do get the disappointment that it isn't the R/U artifact commander that everyone was hoping for. I think if they had just made it read "Legendary Artifact Creature - Sphinx" it would have mollified a lot of people.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I've been warming up to Kalemne too.
Mizzix os strong. Arjun is massively disappointing.
RU artifact general. A lot of people really want it, and I don't see it happening any time soon. The next Zendikar set? Very unlikely. Innistrad II? Seems also very unlikely, though I suppose a mad scientist making killer robots could show up there. Next year's Commander set won't feature RU at all, so no chance there.
Bah!
I think expecting one in this product was setting yourselves up for disappointment.
People have been calling for a UR artifact commander for a few years now, and the previous core set also featured some cards that ramped up that interest. Two years of foreplay, and it ends up just being a tease.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThis is not only true of EDH it is true of Magic the Gathering as a game, it is the secret sauce, more draw, more information is always better than less.
I disagree with this, a bunch of these guys are extremely favorably costed creatures for what they do. The only one that is iffy is Mizzix because being a 2/2 for 4 mana is rough. Still he and Ezuri and Meren are going to put up good fights with both the 2011 and 2013 offerings and maybe some of the others will ssssssurprise.
Corpse Augur is...interesting, to say the least. It's a surprising bit of draw for black, despite having a nice body for the CMC. Might test in a few decks.
Karlov is a pretty sweet new Orzhov general. Should head up a lifegain/drain deck pretty nicely, much like Vish Kal did in the past.
Bloodspore Thrinax I can see just getting really ridiculous with stuff like Doubling Season and Strength of the Tajuru.
Daxos' Torment is...pretty lame. If no one plays Halcyon Glaze or any of the Hidden enchantments, why the hell would you ever want to play this?
Arjun reminds me a lot of Nekusar in terms of build style, except Arjun only works with effects that trigger from you drawing. It seems like you could build a sweet mill deck with him, using stuff like Sphinx's Tutelage and Jace's Erasure.
Stone of Thought is a Spellbook mana rock. I think I'd rather just play Reliquary Tower.
Righteous Confluence is...vexing. At first glance, it seems pretty terrible. However, this one in particular seems like you'll get the most bang for your buck going all-in on a single effect. Exiling three enchantments, getting 3 2/2 vigilance guys with a relevant creature type, or gaining 15 life for five mana all seem fine. I won't play it, but maybe another deck can find a reason to slot it in.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffI know the impact isn't obvious, but an effect like Arjun lets you cheat deckbuilding so much. For example, if you're trying to storm normally, you need a critical mass of the right things in your hand. Which means every counter or removal spell you put in the deck is one more thing to get stuck in your hand when you're trying to go nuts. You can flip your hand with a simple cantrip. And with a deck with plenty of answers, living long enough to drop Arjun (with protection in hand) isn't hard. And winning the turn after will not be difficult. What a promising general that really, really deserves to cost 6.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
*shrug* My disappointment isn't that Arjun is bad per se. My disappointment is, UR got a really good spellslinger general, plus another really good spellslinger general, when there are already some good UR spellslinger generals. The storm thing, that's fine and good, and yeah, Arjun will probably rock at that, but that isn't the sort of thing that me or most of the people I play with are really looking to do when we play EDH.
Both Boros and Izzet got, essentially, "more of the same." Some of it (not the Boros angel) is *really good* more of the same, granted, but some things that were a little more different in those colors would have been nice. In comparison, Orzhov got an enchantment general - something not really expected - and a general who looks to be really good for combo lifegain/voltron strategies, of all things. Not to mention a really good option for the Duel Commander folk. That's different and more interesting.
Kinda like Sol Ring
Arjun is an incredibly scary Storm commander (Mind Moil is extremely scary in said decks) and Karlov is a fantastic beatstick for how cheap he is.
I think Karlov is going to be stronger in Oloro than he would be on his own, though.
Yeah, I really don't see a reason to run it,unless you get a lot of targeted LD, but other wise Tower seems like the better pick