Verdant Confluence is just...wow. Like, that's seriously ridiculous for a lot of decks. I'm surprised more people aren't freaking the hell out about this card. It's weird, but it almost makes me think of a color-bent riff on Abzan Charm specifically. I will be slotting it into most, if not all of my green decks.
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
As someone with experience with Vorel, yes, I am telling you you should in a Counters Matter deck.
Lands: Unless you're using Storage Lands, not that relevant.
Artifacts: The only three artifacts you will ever target with Vorel are Astral Cornucopia, Darksteel Reactor, and Eternity Vessel. Anything else is a waste of time.
Vorel can be activated at instant speed, but he's reliant on having counters in the first place. With Vorel, it's play Vorel, play Chasm Skulker, put a counter on Chasm Skulker, wait till next turn/give Vorel Haste, and then spend mana/tap on T12. With Ezuri, it's play Ezuri, play Chasm Skulker, enter combat, BOOM, 8 counters T12.
Vorel may be bigger, but Ezuri is far more experienced in doing the deed
Yeah, I guess it's the difference in thought process between durdle "combo" and fast infinite combo. Ezuri is probably better for the durdles. Though Sage of Hours might even give Ezuri the edge in both. Since you can start taking infinite turns with him more quickly in Ezuri.
You mean the infinite combo where you need 5 different cards in order to go off?
The problem is, you are thinking of Vorel and Ezuri as though they are both going for a combo finish. Vorel is Combo. Ezuri is "Play Eternal Witness to get back XXX, pump Birds of Paradise with 6 +1/+1 counters, swing with your 6/7, next turn play Coiling Oracle, pump Eternal Witness with 7 +1/+1 counters, swing with your 6/7 flyer and your 9/8 Witness, next turn play-Sage of Hours-just-so-happen to combo off."
Verdant Confluence is just...wow. Like, that's seriously ridiculous for a lot of decks. I'm surprised more people aren't freaking the hell out about this card. It's weird, but it almost makes me think of a color-bent riff on Abzan Charm specifically. I will be slotting it into most, if not all of my green decks.
At six mana? One deck, maybe. It does good things, but none of them moves my world.
Well. Haakon, Phage, and Myojin players rejoice. Wizards has bestowed unto you a gift.
Thank you, Bob. At first, I thought this card was pretty sweet. Almost every deck could use this, as any half decent generals tend to be auto-kill/counter targets. Being able to pull it to your hand would be pretty sweet after they get countered or destroyed a few times, and Crucible of Worlds makes it that much better. Now I know. Haakon Knight tribal control will be the next deck I build.
Actually I love Mirror Match. It doesn't quite replace Evacuation for stopping creature based combos, but in the event of a table wide alpha strike it does let your other opponents die while keeping you alive.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Ezuri, Claw of Progress fits perfectly into the UG tokens\squirrels\polymorph deck I always wanted but could never build because there was no suitable commander for it. Acorn Harvest gives FOUR experience counters! Can't wait!
Dear sweet Urza on a pogo stick...
Squirrel tribal would be absolutely insane in UG. There just hasn't been a commander for it... until now...
The difference is is that Ezuri doesn't cost Mana, where as Vorel does. Vorel also has to put counters on somehow to get the ball rolling (Like with Mycoloth on a previously empty field) where as Ezuri keeps on trucking.
A T2 Vorel into a T3 Fathom Mage means you have to wait till T4 to get a card while both sit there for a turn, where as T3 Ezuri T4 Fathom Mage nets you a card that turn (Cast Fathom Mage for Exp Counter, enter combat, put counter on Fathom)
Vorel is best used with infinite/big mana and untap effects. Also once he no longer has summoning sickness you can activate him at instant speed. Which can be relevant. Also, the whole doubling counters on lands and artifacts is hugely relevant.
New Ezuri is good, but replacing Vorel with him in a "counters matter" deck? No.
As someone with experience with Vorel, yes, I am telling you you should in a Counters Matter deck.
Lands: Unless you're using Storage Lands, not that relevant.
Artifacts: The only three artifacts you will ever target with Vorel are Astral Cornucopia, Darksteel Reactor, and Eternity Vessel. Anything else is a waste of time.
Vorel can be activated at instant speed, but he's reliant on having counters in the first place. With Vorel, it's play Vorel, play Chasm Skulker, put a counter on Chasm Skulker, wait till next turn/give Vorel Haste, and then spend mana/tap on T12. With Ezuri, it's play Ezuri, play Chasm Skulker, enter combat, BOOM, 8 counters T12.
Vorel may be bigger, but Ezuri is far more experienced in doing the deed
The difference is is that Ezuri doesn't cost Mana, where as Vorel does. Vorel also has to put counters on somehow to get the ball rolling (Like with Mycoloth on a previously empty field) where as Ezuri keeps on trucking.
A T2 Vorel into a T3 Fathom Mage means you have to wait till T4 to get a card while both sit there for a turn, where as T3 Ezuri T4 Fathom Mage nets you a card that turn (Cast Fathom Mage for Exp Counter, enter combat, put counter on Fathom)
Vorel is best used with infinite/big mana and untap effects. Also once he no longer has summoning sickness you can activate him at instant speed. Which can be relevant. Also, the whole doubling counters on lands and artifacts is hugely relevant.
New Ezuri is good, but replacing Vorel with him in a "counters matter" deck? No.
As someone with experience with Vorel, yes, I am telling you you should in a Counters Matter deck.
Lands: Unless you're using Storage Lands, not that relevant.
Artifacts: The only three artifacts you will ever target with Vorel are Astral Cornucopia, Darksteel Reactor, and Eternity Vessel. Anything else is a waste of time.
Vorel can be activated at instant speed, but he's reliant on having counters in the first place. With Vorel, it's play Vorel, play Chasm Skulker, put a counter on Chasm Skulker, wait till next turn/give Vorel Haste, and then spend mana/tap on T12. With Ezuri, it's play Ezuri, play Chasm Skulker, enter combat, BOOM, 8 counters T12.
Vorel may be bigger, but Ezuri is far more experienced in doing the deed
Also, what is this turn 12 garbage? Vorel costs three mana; that's not particularly difficult to get on turn two.
Sure, Ezuri and Vorel may be the same colors, and maybe they both say 'counter', but they're pretty different animals.
They play extremely differently but in this kind of counters matters deck I would say that Corel is much better. I love the new ezuri and he's got me feeling excited, but I think he's better in a different sort of deck. I am thinking about him in Animar and roon blink.
The comparison of Ezuri to Vorel is apples to oranges. Ezuri wants to puke little guys onto the field for a huge payout in +1/+1 counters every combat. Vorel wants to double the counters that already exist on a permanent. I fail to see how one can compare the two when they are so fundamentally different.
It will be interesting to see what people come up with for an Ezuri deck. I wonder if it will manage to live up to the hype its stirred up, or if will it end up being merely clunky and cute when all said and done.
Dawnbreak Reclaimer might make an appearance in Karador. She is one mana cheaper than Emeria Shepherd, and has better stats. But is that worth letting your opponent choose the creature that returns? Its a very political card and very dependant on the game state. At least with the Shepherd you have complete control over its use.
So far, none of the legends have really inspired me to build a deck around them. Im still holding out hope that Karlov will be amazing.
Also, what is this turn 12 garbage? Vorel costs three mana; that's not particularly difficult to get on turn two.
And what happens when Vorel gets boardwiped/his counter build-up-artifact gets killed? He's back at square one; hence why T12 was used, because you just got WRATHED, sucka!
Vorel starts out at 0 in such an instance. Ezuri you can recast and start adding the exact same amount of counters with.
While Vorel adds 16 while the counters currently on is 16, he adds 0 when the counters are at 0. While Ezuri only adds 8 when the counters are at 16, at 0 he adds 8! Which means that a hardcast Fathom Mage on T12 into an empty board will get 1 counter with Vorel (Due to you not being an idiot and casting Fathom Mage first) for one card drawn, while Fathom Mage followed by Ezuri will be an Evolve Trigger (+1 Card Drawn) + the amount of experience counters Ezuri has (8, for instance) for 9 cards compared to Vorels 1, because vorel can't even activate that turn!
Comprehende?
Sure, Ezuri and Vorel may be the same colors, and maybe they both say 'counter', but they're pretty different animals.
If you had read the thread a bit more I had said.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Only on MtGS would people compare Vorel to the new Ezuri and say they are similar. They do completely different things. Like not even close abilities to each other. Ezuri places +1 counters on creatures only, and Vorel doubles counters on a artifact, creature, or land - which aside from Gilder Bairn is the only creature who can do that, and a legendary creature who can sit in your command zone. I don't see Ezuri winning off of doubling Darksteel Reactor's charge counters anytime soon. Vorel interacts and enables with using more cool/silly/weird/what have you cards that would not get played without Vorel existing with various win conditions, and Simic Ezuri just looks like a plain boring elf/infect deck that will play around with +1/+1 counters for the 9849308490238480 time. Coiling Oracle and friends, oh joy. How creative.
Basically what I am saying is read the cards people, and Ezuri is boring and isn't as unique or cool as Vorel.
Mizzix's Mastery may convince me to make an Izzet techno-magic deck despite my distaste for the aesthetics involved. At least I would finally feel okay about running Frantic Search.
That is freaking insane. Goes straight into both my Jeleva and Narset decks.
Even just considering what deck it's in means that its "Cast every spell you've cast up to this point in the game for RRR".....
I must say that Ezuri is my favorite, but Mizzix is the one I think is going to be busted in half.
Explain how Mizzix will be "busted in half"? Actually, explain what you think "busted in half" even means to you.
Mizzix is a fair commander in a beyond unfair format that is already fundamentally broken beyond belief. You want "busted" in Commander look no further than cards like Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, Dead Eye Navigator, Prophet of Kruphix, Consecrated Sphinx....shall I continue?
Sorry, but the hyperbole and exaggeration around here sort of makes me want to stab something.
Mizzix's Mastery may convince me to make an Izzet techno-magic deck despite my distaste for the aesthetics involved. At least I would finally feel okay about running Frantic Search.
I don't think I would agree with the X spell part, at least not in any different sense that Melek does. I mean, we're looking at a commander that can, after casting 5 spells (Admittingly in a specific order) killyoudeadforRRRRUUU at instant speed.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
You mean the infinite combo where you need 5 different cards in order to go off?
The problem is, you are thinking of Vorel and Ezuri as though they are both going for a combo finish. Vorel is Combo. Ezuri is "Play Eternal Witness to get back XXX, pump Birds of Paradise with 6 +1/+1 counters, swing with your 6/7, next turn play Coiling Oracle, pump Eternal Witness with 7 +1/+1 counters, swing with your 6/7 flyer and your 9/8 Witness, next turn play-Sage of Hours-just-so-happen to combo off."
You have to build around Vorel. Ezuri does his thing by playing Llanowar Elves, Auger of Bolas, Reclamation Sage, Acidic Slime, and other cards you should be playing anyway with a handful of cards you use to build around Ezuri (Mycoloth, Fathom Mage, Gyre Sage, Chasm Skulker, Infect if you want it, Graft if you want to be cute).
If you want to double the Loyalty counters on Planeswalkers, you want to use Gilder Bairn.
Darien, King of Kjeldor loves this.
Hopefully he's not Immortal.
Thank you, Bob. At first, I thought this card was pretty sweet. Almost every deck could use this, as any half decent generals tend to be auto-kill/counter targets. Being able to pull it to your hand would be pretty sweet after they get countered or destroyed a few times, and Crucible of Worlds makes it that much better. Now I know. Haakon Knight tribal control will be the next deck I build.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Seems good, I wonder if this should be handed to Phage the Untouchable players as well.
Probably, I mean you have to use the land drop to get the effect, they are basically reducing their maximum starting hand size by one in the end.
Dear sweet Urza on a pogo stick...
Squirrel tribal would be absolutely insane in UG. There just hasn't been a commander for it... until now...
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Tangle Wire, Lux Cannon, and Magistrate's Scepter all seem pretty good to double. You also overlooked that Vorel syergizes cleanly with a heck of a lot more cards than Ezuri does - permanent based twiddlers (Prophet of Krupix, Quest for Awakening, and Seedborn Muse), Liquimetal Coating, etc.
Also, what is this turn 12 garbage? Vorel costs three mana; that's not particularly difficult to get on turn two.
Sure, Ezuri and Vorel may be the same colors, and maybe they both say 'counter', but they're pretty different animals.
They play extremely differently but in this kind of counters matters deck I would say that Corel is much better. I love the new ezuri and he's got me feeling excited, but I think he's better in a different sort of deck. I am thinking about him in Animar and roon blink.
It will be interesting to see what people come up with for an Ezuri deck. I wonder if it will manage to live up to the hype its stirred up, or if will it end up being merely clunky and cute when all said and done.
Dawnbreak Reclaimer might make an appearance in Karador. She is one mana cheaper than Emeria Shepherd, and has better stats. But is that worth letting your opponent choose the creature that returns? Its a very political card and very dependant on the game state. At least with the Shepherd you have complete control over its use.
So far, none of the legends have really inspired me to build a deck around them. Im still holding out hope that Karlov will be amazing.
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
And what happens when Vorel gets boardwiped/his counter build-up-artifact gets killed? He's back at square one; hence why T12 was used, because you just got WRATHED, sucka!
Vorel starts out at 0 in such an instance. Ezuri you can recast and start adding the exact same amount of counters with.
While Vorel adds 16 while the counters currently on is 16, he adds 0 when the counters are at 0. While Ezuri only adds 8 when the counters are at 16, at 0 he adds 8! Which means that a hardcast Fathom Mage on T12 into an empty board will get 1 counter with Vorel (Due to you not being an idiot and casting Fathom Mage first) for one card drawn, while Fathom Mage followed by Ezuri will be an Evolve Trigger (+1 Card Drawn) + the amount of experience counters Ezuri has (8, for instance) for 9 cards compared to Vorels 1, because vorel can't even activate that turn!
Comprehende?
If you had read the thread a bit more I had said.
Basically what I am saying is read the cards people, and Ezuri is boring and isn't as unique or cool as Vorel.
That is freaking insane. Goes straight into both my Jeleva and Narset decks.
Even just considering what deck it's in means that its "Cast every spell you've cast up to this point in the game for RRR".....
I must say that Ezuri is my favorite, but Mizzix is the one I think is going to be busted in half.
It's interesting that Mizzix of the Izmagnus encourage you to play X spells but Epic Experiment and Mizzix's Mastery discourage this. Find the balance will be key.
Explain how Mizzix will be "busted in half"? Actually, explain what you think "busted in half" even means to you.
Mizzix is a fair commander in a beyond unfair format that is already fundamentally broken beyond belief. You want "busted" in Commander look no further than cards like Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, Dead Eye Navigator, Prophet of Kruphix, Consecrated Sphinx....shall I continue?
Sorry, but the hyperbole and exaggeration around here sort of makes me want to stab something.
I don't think I would agree with the X spell part, at least not in any different sense that Melek does. I mean, we're looking at a commander that can, after casting 5 spells (Admittingly in a specific order) kill you dead for RRRRUUU at instant speed.
I absolutely would if I were talking to someone who didn't need a second account to get their opinions across