I would never include Soul of Ravnica in an EDH deck for reasons other than thematic. If I need card draw on a stick, I'll use things like Arcanis the Omnipotent, Consecrated Sphinx, and Mulldrifter. Things that don't require an initial investment of 13 mana to draw sometimes as little as 1 card. At the costs involved, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth seems like a more appropriate comparison to me, and it's not very close.
Though I don't think soul of ravnica is all that good, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is definitely not an appropriate comparison. Tons of decks will hit the 6 and 7 mana mark, but 10 is kind of a stretch. Most decks don't want THAT much mana. On top of that, being usable from the graveyard (which tons of people seem to be forgetting) is quite significant (even if the card is still rather weak).
5-colour control decks could probably make some use of it, but there are a lot of options for those decks already. It's kind of niche and even if you hit that niche, it's still usually going to be worse than other options.
It seems very strange to me, though, and I feel like blue got the short end of the stick on this one. The blue one is the only one that requires colour commitment outside of its own colour, so its the hardest soul to put into a deck.
As for the other souls: Soul of new phyrexia - I like it, but 5 mana is a lot - especially after you just spent 6 to cast it. It's still a strong creature, though, and being colourless is pretty awesome. Soul of Innistrad - Probably my favourite one, actually. I think I mostly like it because its ability is actually very good. The card naturally synergises with the very thing that enables it. Soul of Shandalar - Oh how I wish this was a little more pushed. Maybe 4 mana to activate the ability or something. I don't think it would break other formats and it would still only scratch playability in EDH with that. As is, I don't think it will be played much. Soul of Theros - OMG I love the Theros theme and art. Those helmets always look so damn cool. I like the ability, but it costs a lot of mana and is quite niche (tokens). Soul of Zendikar - So much sad face. 3/3 beasts? lol. It's still a mana dump, though, and it can make an emergency blocker/equipment carrier from the graveyard if need be. Also I like the art on it. At least it won't get banned
All in all, I like their design, but I feel like they could have balanced each one compared to the others much better. I'm glad the blue and green ones aren't broken. I find it interesting that they are pushing activated abilities on creatures as well as anti-ETB with the torpor orb bird.
I am most excited for goblin rabblemaster this set. Hopefully he won't be too expensive...
Though I don't think soul of ravnica is all that good, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is definitely not an appropriate comparison. Tons of decks will hit the 6 and 7 mana mark, but 10 is kind of a stretch. Most decks don't want THAT much mana. On top of that, being usable from the graveyard (which tons of people seem to be forgetting) is quite significant (even if the card is still rather weak).
It is more appropriate than the other cards mentioned due to the mana required to make it work. It does nothing at 6 mana, and if you only hit 7, then you've spent 2 turns and 13 mana to draw 1 or more cards. Or you've spent dredge or tutor options to put it in the graveyard, making it 7 mana + dredge/tutor to draw one or more cards. Most of the time, it's going to cost 13 mana to cantrip, or 6 and then 7 plus waiting around a turn tapped out. I'm not going to further debate that point.
Being useable from the graveyard is a moot point, if you're playing this in a dredge/mill deck (like Mimeoplasm) you're not going to Entomb for Soul of Ravnica...or sanely put it in your deck for that matter.
The biggest strike this card has against it is the color. Blue is awesome at drawing cards, and this guy is not.
Though I don't think soul of ravnica is all that good, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is definitely not an appropriate comparison. Tons of decks will hit the 6 and 7 mana mark, but 10 is kind of a stretch. Most decks don't want THAT much mana. On top of that, being usable from the graveyard (which tons of people seem to be forgetting) is quite significant (even if the card is still rather weak).
It is more appropriate than the other cards mentioned due to the mana required to make it work. It does nothing at 6 mana, and if you only hit 7, then you've spent 2 turns and 13 mana to draw 1 or more cards. Or you've spent dredge or tutor options to put it in the graveyard, making it 7 mana + dredge/tutor to draw one or more cards. Most of the time, it's going to cost 13 mana to cantrip, or 6 and then 7 plus waiting around a turn tapped out. I'm not going to further debate that point.
Being useable from the graveyard is a moot point, if you're playing this in a dredge/mill deck (like Mimeoplasm) you're not going to Entomb for Soul of Ravnica...or sanely put it in your deck for that matter.
The biggest strike this card has against it is the color. Blue is awesome at drawing cards, and this guy is not.
You don't have to go for the draw the next turn. You have a 6/6 flying that can attack. You can activate it for the draw on an opposing player's turn so that you have mana open for spells if need be. It's an activated ability, not an echo cost.
Of course you won't entombsoul of ravnica, but if it's in your graveyard due to mill or maybe windfall, then you can potentially use it for cards. I said that the graveyard ability is significant because it puts it apart from other cards that are similar. You can't just compare it to consecrated sphynx since the sphynx does nothing in the graveyard.
All that said, the card is too weak, so it doesn't really matter. It won't be used in many decks.
You don't have to go for the draw the next turn. You have a 6/6 flying that can attack. You can activate it for the draw on an opposing player's turn so that you have mana open for spells if need be. It's an activated ability, not an echo cost
I realize this, but you're not playing this card because you need a vanilla flying 6/6 for 6...
All that said, the card is too weak, so it doesn't really matter. It won't be used in many decks.
I feel like I want to build a WB or WBx deck built around the Torpor Bird, Torpor Orb, Linvala, Keeper of Slience, Humility, Aven Mindcensor and similar effects to all these cards. Along with the new Ob Nixilis.
Basically a deck built to make all creatures useless and to either mostly eliminate tutoring or make it super costly.
Not really a stax deck but sort of a stax/punisher hybrid. WBR might be the way to go.
I feel like I want to build a WB or WBx deck built around the Torpor Bird, Torpor Orb, Linvala, Keeper of Slience, Humility, Aven Mindcensor and similar effects to all these cards. Along with the new Ob Nixilis.
Basically a deck built to make all creatures useless and to either mostly eliminate tutoring or make it super costly.
Not really a stax deck but sort of a stax/punisher hybrid. WBR might be the way to go.
That is also what i'm doing. Like I said, goes really well with Teeg.
If anything, the bird feels weak. Because it is a creature.
It's still a second torpor orb, and having flash makes it like a weird stifle. Certain decks can definitely get a creature back more easily than an artifact (and also being a creature opens it up as an additional option for tutors).
If anything, the bird feels weak. Because it is a creature.
See, I end up with the opposite reaction. This may just be because I face a couple of decks that don't spam ETB effects, but the fact that it is a creature that at least attacks and blocks if there's nothing to actually topor orb is very attractive. Yeah, it can get wrathed away, but so can Topor Orb, and I feel like Topor Orb will do a lot less work in the meantime.
If anything it's stronger because it's a creature. Gaddock Teeg now has easily tutorable access to Torpor Orb effects. Before how many ways could he get at that? Humility shuts down the lock down abilities of his other hate bears, but this lets him topically shut down all those ETB crazy bant lists/sharuum/GY combo lists/etc so long as he has a creature tutor in hand. Low cost. Low Power. Flash. Hushwing Gryff will brings new levels of frustration to my tables.
I don't know if I've ever seen such efficient lifegain. One colorless (trinket mage-able!) for easily 40 life across the average EDH game in these parts. More for each graveyard and mill deck on the scene.
I don't know if I've ever seen such efficient lifegain. One colorless (trinket mage-able!) for easily 40 life across the average EDH game in these parts. More for each graveyard and mill deck on the scene.
Life gain just is not good enough to warrant a spot in the 99 usually, let alone someone tutoring for it. Efficient for sure, but worth the slot? Meh
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I don't know if I've ever seen such efficient lifegain. One colorless (trinket mage-able!) for easily 40 life across the average EDH game in these parts. More for each graveyard and mill deck on the scene.
While I could see a janky Esper Mill/Lifegain Win deck being constructed with Profane Memento, I don't see it being widely used.
First of all the most efficient life gain in the format is Oloro in your command zone followed by Serra Ascendant.
Second of all MrHBlue and Slarg are right. Life gain is largely weak in the format. It might be worthwhile if you run Vizkopa Guildmage + Beacon of Immortality combo but that is really only good in Oloro, who is typically all you need for the combo to deal fatal.
Third, better decks run fewer creatures. Better decks also run more tuck and exile effects over destroy effects. The better a meta gets the less triggers this will see.
With all that being said I could see running it in a control deck largely based around Archangel of Thune shenanigans. I see few other high quality uses.
Oh and I think very few people are excited about the Souls. Those cards are total jank.
Third, better decks run fewer creatures. Better decks also run more tuck and exile effects over destroy effects. The better a meta gets the less triggers this will see.
With all that being said I could see running it in a control deck largely based around Archangel of Thune shenanigans. I see few other high quality uses.
Oh and I think very few people are excited about the Souls. Those cards are total jank.
I agree with your removal statement, but in better metas there also could be more creature saccing (depends strongly on the meta), but you're probably not going to build a lifegain deck in a cutthroat meta.
I agree with your removal statement, but in better metas there also could be more creature saccing (depends strongly on the meta), but you're probably not going to build a lifegain deck in a cutthroat meta.
Shockingly I play Oloro in a near cutthroat meta. Mostly it was to fuel Ad Nauseam. I've scaled it back now and it's more of an Esper good stuff time warp deck. I still run Oloro because he helps me survive deep enough to win. Of course the only other life gain I've run in a long time are combo pieces like Beacon of Immortality.
Shockingly I play Oloro in a near cutthroat meta. Mostly it was to fuel Ad Nauseam. I've scaled it back now and it's more of an Esper good stuff time warp deck. I still run Oloro because he helps me survive deep enough to win. Of course the only other life gain I've run in a long time are combo pieces like Beacon of Immortality.
That's not really a lifegain deck, though. It's a combo deck or a control deck getting utility out of a card just sitting in the command zone.
Even in a dedicated lifegain deck, Memento isn't great. There are more consistent ways to gain incremental bits of life if you're after that.
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That's not really a lifegain deck, though. It's a combo deck or a control deck getting utility out of a card just sitting in the command zone.
Even in a dedicated lifegain deck, Memento isn't great. There are more consistent ways to gain incremental bits of life if you're after that.
Yep. However, in slower Oloro control builds I'd run Memento with Well of Lost Dreams and Drogskol Reaver. Of course I wouldn't play those builds except against very average metas.
Alright, 1 mana and a card for a ton of life is maybe not bleeding edge competitive. I still think it's a phenomenally tidy card in a multiplayer format, especially for mill decks that need to buy time against aggressive strategies. I think it's cute alongside Mindcrank, and I'll be trying it in my Phenax deck
I agree that it's phenomenally tidy for multiplayer, which kind of makes me surprised its in M15, and not Conspiracy, a multiplayer expansion.
So does anyone thing that Generator Servant will see play as a sort of Red Mana Ramp? It does allow a sort of "Spend Mana Now, Get 2 later" type of thing, which is fringe at the very least.
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Some combo rigs should be able to do something with the Servant.
I've been considering the usability of Genesis Hydra. Anyone think it's gonna be good?
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern UG Infect
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Though I don't think soul of ravnica is all that good, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is definitely not an appropriate comparison. Tons of decks will hit the 6 and 7 mana mark, but 10 is kind of a stretch. Most decks don't want THAT much mana. On top of that, being usable from the graveyard (which tons of people seem to be forgetting) is quite significant (even if the card is still rather weak).
5-colour control decks could probably make some use of it, but there are a lot of options for those decks already. It's kind of niche and even if you hit that niche, it's still usually going to be worse than other options.
It seems very strange to me, though, and I feel like blue got the short end of the stick on this one. The blue one is the only one that requires colour commitment outside of its own colour, so its the hardest soul to put into a deck.
As for the other souls:
Soul of new phyrexia - I like it, but 5 mana is a lot - especially after you just spent 6 to cast it. It's still a strong creature, though, and being colourless is pretty awesome.
Soul of Innistrad - Probably my favourite one, actually. I think I mostly like it because its ability is actually very good. The card naturally synergises with the very thing that enables it.
Soul of Shandalar - Oh how I wish this was a little more pushed. Maybe 4 mana to activate the ability or something. I don't think it would break other formats and it would still only scratch playability in EDH with that. As is, I don't think it will be played much.
Soul of Theros - OMG I love the Theros theme and art. Those helmets always look so damn cool. I like the ability, but it costs a lot of mana and is quite niche (tokens).
Soul of Zendikar - So much sad face. 3/3 beasts? lol. It's still a mana dump, though, and it can make an emergency blocker/equipment carrier from the graveyard if need be. Also I like the art on it. At least it won't get banned
All in all, I like their design, but I feel like they could have balanced each one compared to the others much better. I'm glad the blue and green ones aren't broken. I find it interesting that they are pushing activated abilities on creatures as well as anti-ETB with the torpor orb bird.
I am most excited for goblin rabblemaster this set. Hopefully he won't be too expensive...
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
Most good decks I've seen that run Remora have several ways of bouncing it to refresh the cumulative upkeep.
Study is a great target for Grip...if Grip is your only means of removing enchantments.
I don't like any of the Soul cards. Way to over costed. It takes way to many resources to get value out of them.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
It is more appropriate than the other cards mentioned due to the mana required to make it work. It does nothing at 6 mana, and if you only hit 7, then you've spent 2 turns and 13 mana to draw 1 or more cards. Or you've spent dredge or tutor options to put it in the graveyard, making it 7 mana + dredge/tutor to draw one or more cards. Most of the time, it's going to cost 13 mana to cantrip, or 6 and then 7 plus waiting around a turn tapped out. I'm not going to further debate that point.
Being useable from the graveyard is a moot point, if you're playing this in a dredge/mill deck (like Mimeoplasm) you're not going to Entomb for Soul of Ravnica...or sanely put it in your deck for that matter.
The biggest strike this card has against it is the color. Blue is awesome at drawing cards, and this guy is not.
You don't have to go for the draw the next turn. You have a 6/6 flying that can attack. You can activate it for the draw on an opposing player's turn so that you have mana open for spells if need be. It's an activated ability, not an echo cost.
Of course you won't entomb soul of ravnica, but if it's in your graveyard due to mill or maybe windfall, then you can potentially use it for cards. I said that the graveyard ability is significant because it puts it apart from other cards that are similar. You can't just compare it to consecrated sphynx since the sphynx does nothing in the graveyard.
All that said, the card is too weak, so it doesn't really matter. It won't be used in many decks.
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
I realize this, but you're not playing this card because you need a vanilla flying 6/6 for 6...
This we can agree on.
Basically a deck built to make all creatures useless and to either mostly eliminate tutoring or make it super costly.
Not really a stax deck but sort of a stax/punisher hybrid. WBR might be the way to go.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
That is also what i'm doing. Like I said, goes really well with Teeg.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
It's still a second torpor orb, and having flash makes it like a weird stifle. Certain decks can definitely get a creature back more easily than an artifact (and also being a creature opens it up as an additional option for tutors).
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Profane Memento
I don't know if I've ever seen such efficient lifegain. One colorless (trinket mage-able!) for easily 40 life across the average EDH game in these parts. More for each graveyard and mill deck on the scene.
RWUNumot, the DevastatorUWR - UBDralnu, Lich LordBU - WBURGReaper KingGRUBW - RBMalfegorBR
While I could see a janky Esper Mill/Lifegain Win deck being constructed with Profane Memento, I don't see it being widely used.
First of all the most efficient life gain in the format is Oloro in your command zone followed by Serra Ascendant.
Second of all MrHBlue and Slarg are right. Life gain is largely weak in the format. It might be worthwhile if you run Vizkopa Guildmage + Beacon of Immortality combo but that is really only good in Oloro, who is typically all you need for the combo to deal fatal.
Third, better decks run fewer creatures. Better decks also run more tuck and exile effects over destroy effects. The better a meta gets the less triggers this will see.
With all that being said I could see running it in a control deck largely based around Archangel of Thune shenanigans. I see few other high quality uses.
Oh and I think very few people are excited about the Souls. Those cards are total jank.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
It's definitely a narrow card, but I could justify running it in decks that utilize lifegain triggers like Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, with stuff like Well of Lost Dreams and Archangel of Thune.
I agree with your removal statement, but in better metas there also could be more creature saccing (depends strongly on the meta), but you're probably not going to build a lifegain deck in a cutthroat meta.
Shockingly I play Oloro in a near cutthroat meta. Mostly it was to fuel Ad Nauseam. I've scaled it back now and it's more of an Esper good stuff time warp deck. I still run Oloro because he helps me survive deep enough to win. Of course the only other life gain I've run in a long time are combo pieces like Beacon of Immortality.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Even in a dedicated lifegain deck, Memento isn't great. There are more consistent ways to gain incremental bits of life if you're after that.
Yep. However, in slower Oloro control builds I'd run Memento with Well of Lost Dreams and Drogskol Reaver. Of course I wouldn't play those builds except against very average metas.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
RWUNumot, the DevastatorUWR - UBDralnu, Lich LordBU - WBURGReaper KingGRUBW - RBMalfegorBR
So does anyone thing that Generator Servant will see play as a sort of Red Mana Ramp? It does allow a sort of "Spend Mana Now, Get 2 later" type of thing, which is fringe at the very least.
I've been considering the usability of Genesis Hydra. Anyone think it's gonna be good?
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect