A few things that struck me abut the top 200:
1) Loxodon Warhammer being so high on the list (54th). The power level is very mediocre to me.
2) Scroll Rack being farther down in the list (117th). Perhaps this is due to rarity. The power level is extremely high to me.
3) The absence of Stoneforge Mystic as she seems to show up in almost every deck with white.
4) The popularity of Cycle, Bounce, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, and Vivid lands, although this certainly confirms the budget aspect of this format when it comes to land base. Terramorphic Expanse at 18? Really??? There doesn't seem to be much restraint on price when it comes to spells though. This has always been curious to me. Spells tend to sub in and sub out all the time whereas lands don't. Investing in good lands has been the best thing I've ever done for my decks. I saw a few, but I guess most people don't get overly excited about acquiring fetch and shock lands. I certainly do!
Speaking of lands..
5) Reflecting Pool at 48, and City of Brass all the way down at 186? Weirdness!
Keep in mind the age of a lot of decklists will preclude some new cards, as well as budget. Not everybody got a Stoneforge Mystic at $3 like I did.
Moreover, investing in quality lands is the most expensive part of any deck, by far. There's almost nothing you can put into a deck that costs more than its mana base - for my G/W Sisay deck, my mana base for non basics is:
Seriously I should probably cut a few, but even if you ditch all the worst ones, that's still a hefty chunk of change with average prices.
As for scroll rack, it's always felt rather 'eh' to me. Great with Land Tax, but requires support to make good. Not individually good like Sylvan Library, absolutely requiring shuffling + hand filling from Tax/Loam to make workable. 3 for 3 each turn is great, but that makes it more of a U/G/X or B/G/X draw engine to find Loam, and bother color combos have much better draw than Scroll Rack.
I'm kinda surprised Genesis was so high. I know I'm running way too ramp light, but it's always felt rather clunky to me. Occasionally a life saver, certainly, but quite frequently just very clunky. I ran it for awhile for part lulz since getting it into my GY was a pain in G/W that ran very limited enchantment tutoring, leaving me with an awesome vanilla 5CMC 4/4 elemental. Best part about it was that it soaked an awful lot of RFG removal and GY hate even though it sucked very badly for me.
So checked StarCityGames, which is usually high compared to other online stores, and the top 50 can be bought for $235. Most expensive card is Wasteland (easy to substitute for) at $35, then Vampiric Tutor at $17, then everything is $10 or under. Wizards could totally make a Commander deckbuilder's tool kit and sell all of these at $100.
On the flip side, if you have a stale meta in your playgroup, it'd be interesting to take this list (50 or 200) and make it a temporary banlist. Everyone has to build their decks with other cards than those that have risen to the top of the format.
On the flip side, if you have a stale meta in your playgroup, it'd be interesting to take this list (50 or 200) and make it a temporary banlist. Everyone has to build their decks with other cards than those that have risen to the top of the format.
I will note that the top 50 includes basic land, so you might want to change that first.
I do wonder if the list would be any different if multiple cards were counted as multiples -- since this will tell us the popularity of certain colours by looking at the basic lands. That said, I am pretty impressed with this list and the time taken in writing the codes needed
So checked StarCityGames, which is usually high compared to other online stores, and the top 50 can be bought for $235. Most expensive card is Wasteland (easy to substitute for) at $35, then Vampiric Tutor at $17, then everything is $10 or under. Wizards could totally make a Commander deckbuilder's tool kit and sell all of these at $100.
Since it's mostly mana rocks, tutors, and land, it would be interesting to combine the most necessary cards into a "toolkit" of sorts that would be a great suggestion for players looking to get into the format without budget constraints.
If you're choosing between EDH and building a decent deck for Standard/Modern, $200 of suggested staples and a Commander product of choice could go a long way, even if prices are higher for the format now.
It wouldn't take too much effort to modify the analysis script to look at post date/edit date, would it? Then we can start looking at trends, and that is where the real statistics goldmine is.
I think I will do this one next. As a lot of decks in the database are outdated and it would be nice to see a top 50 of the current meta. I would expect the silly six drops and other newer cards to rank higher in this case.
I'd love to know how many unique cards were listed. Is the format truly as diverse as we think?
In the lower numbers it is harder to say because I count a couple of cards that were badly formatted.
About 11300 different cards with at least 1 hit (10100 without magnus magicus decks)
About 8300 different cards with at least 2 hits
About 6000 different cards with at least 3 hits
About 5100 different cards with at least 4 hits
About 4500 different cards with at least 5 hits
1633 different cards with at least 25 hits
923 different cards with at least 50 hits
494 different cards with at least 100 hits
Interesting side note. 374 Cabal Coffers/606 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth. I thought "no one runs Urborg without Coffers, and no one runs Coffers without Urborg unless it's mono black." to paraphrase. I maintain my stance, the synergy isn't as rampantly used as people think and isn't as overpowered as people think lol. And that both cards are valid independent of one another.
Great work on the list though. Now we just need a top 25 most used Red cards in decks here lol. Since it's carbon footprint on the top 200 list is about as impactfull as the carbon footprint of a small dog.
Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
Interesting side note. 374 Cabal Coffers/606 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth. I thought "no one runs Urborg without Coffers, and no one runs Coffers without Urborg unless it's mono black." to paraphrase. I maintain my stance, the synergy isn't as rampantly used as people think and isn't as overpowered as people think lol. And that both cards are valid independent of one another.
That is pretty intuitive. Non-monoblack decks that can run these cards are not likely to run Cabal Coffers since it can be a dead draw if they somehow draw it without the sufficient number of swamps (note that they actually need at least four swamps to "profit" from Cabal Coffers. On the other hand, any decks which plays black are likely to run Urborg TOY simply because on its own, it is a mana fixer, at best or for monoblacks, it ups their Cabal Coffer mana production (note that technically, nonblack decks can run Urborg TOY if only to help Sundering Titan or combo off with Linvala + Kormus Bell.
I absolutely love checking out these sorts of statistics. A few thoughts:
- No surprise that Damnation shows up above Wrath of God. White has a ton of similar options at 4-6 mana, whereas blacks other wrath effects are all 8+ mana.
- Funny to see Terramorphic Expanse at almost twice the appearance rate of Evolving Wilds.
- I'm surprised to see Maze of Ith so high on the list. I know most people think that card is much better than I do, but it's also $40 for a card that's not terribly exciting.
- I find it very surprising that Sword of Light and Shadow made an appearance but Sword of Feast and Famine did not.
- Condemn is ridiculously overrated
- I'm amazed that the staple fatties Primeval Titan and Consecrated Sphinx aren't a big higher on the list.
- Funny to see Terramorphic Expanse at almost twice the appearance rate of Evolving Wilds.
- I find it very surprising that Sword of Light and Shadow made an appearance but Sword of Feast and Famine did not.
- I'm amazed that the staple fatties Primeval Titan and Consecrated Sphinx aren't a big higher on the list.
Those probably have to do because a lot of lists are older than those cards. I am currently tagging each deck with the date they last got updated so I can cut older decks from the stats. Tune in for a more up-to-date meta!
who is Magnus magicus and why is his deck significant
Magnus Magicus is a guy on this forum that contributed 188, mostly just for fun, decklists to the decklist database. As these decks do not represent the actual commander meta-game I did not want these to skew the statistics.
When you finish tagging all the posts, could you upload a spreadsheet with all the data points? I would very much like to compare price trends with appearance frequency for various high-gaining cards like Maze of Ith, we can't all expect you to crunch the numbers by yourself
the list of the top50 make sme shivver.
how in gods name can be vampiric tutor be less played then demonic tutor???
still , i always wanted to see a lit like this thanks OP
They're fifteen bucks and almost impossible to find. Demonics are much easier to come by - duel decks + plentiful supply of revised ones for the most part. Same with Sol Ring before the format got huge, I go to a store that had a stack of 20+ of each of them in a case. The proprietor had only 3 Vampiric Tutors at most.
One should also consider the age of the decks in the list. If you chop off the list so that anything older than a year is excluded, then yes, the numbers would more accurately reflect what people are running. Old data won't include Primeval Titan, or at best would include it when it was $40 and much harder to obtain.
And now Prime Time is up there... in the #4 creature spot. And green owns the top 4 non-colorless creatures...
There are 54% as many Primeval Titan as there are Solemn Simulacrums, the #1 creature. An artifact creature that can go into any colored deck.
There are 68% as many Primeval Titan as there are Eternal Witnesses, the #1 colored, and #1 Green creature. One is a Mythic, the other an Uncommon.
Do you have a way to give me the right numbers of decklists for each color / combination of color? (as you more than suggest that my figures are not up to date...)
This is a bit harder to do as not all decks are formatted correctly and my script does not yes associate a general with a particular decklist.
There are also a number of broken links. I will try to assemble a list of those and send you a report with some numbers.
I find it odd that the Kamigawa cycle is vastly underrepresented in the card choices, considering that the cards are some of the more potent spells in Commander
The budget constraints are certainly interesting. Wasteland, a card that probably should be in almost every deck, is quite a ways down the pile yet Strip Mine is one of the most-played lands. I find this interesting as in most cases the extra functionality of Strip Mine is not what the cards are being used for (problematic non-basics). Of course, Strip Mine can be had for $3 and Wasteland is $30+.
Also, no ABUR duals made the list, but most of the shocklands and fetches made it.
This would seem to indicate that the decklists on this site are skewed to the slightly-more budget conscious.
And yet, Mana Crypt, which is hard to be had at less than $70, makes an appearance.
Thanks for this. Diabolic tutor. It's the poor boy's tutor.
Hmm, na, its about on par with the current "top 20 cards" thread.
Though this has more potential for user input.
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A few things that struck me abut the top 200:
1) Loxodon Warhammer being so high on the list (54th). The power level is very mediocre to me.
2) Scroll Rack being farther down in the list (117th). Perhaps this is due to rarity. The power level is extremely high to me.
3) The absence of Stoneforge Mystic as she seems to show up in almost every deck with white.
4) The popularity of Cycle, Bounce, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, and Vivid lands, although this certainly confirms the budget aspect of this format when it comes to land base. Terramorphic Expanse at 18? Really??? There doesn't seem to be much restraint on price when it comes to spells though. This has always been curious to me. Spells tend to sub in and sub out all the time whereas lands don't. Investing in good lands has been the best thing I've ever done for my decks. I saw a few, but I guess most people don't get overly excited about acquiring fetch and shock lands. I certainly do!
Speaking of lands..
5) Reflecting Pool at 48, and City of Brass all the way down at 186? Weirdness!
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Moreover, investing in quality lands is the most expensive part of any deck, by far. There's almost nothing you can put into a deck that costs more than its mana base - for my G/W Sisay deck, my mana base for non basics is:
Foil Yavimaya Hollow
Gaea's Cradle
Winding Canyons
Strip Mine (antiquities)
Wasteland
Flagstones of Trokair
Horizon Canopy
Sunpetal Grove
Temple Garden
Savannah (Revised)
Wooded Foothills
Flooded Strand
Windswept Heath
Arid Mesa
Verdant Catacombs
Marsh Flats
Mistry Rainforest
Elephant Graveyard
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Eiganjo Castle
Homeward Path
Seriously I should probably cut a few, but even if you ditch all the worst ones, that's still a hefty chunk of change with average prices.
As for scroll rack, it's always felt rather 'eh' to me. Great with Land Tax, but requires support to make good. Not individually good like Sylvan Library, absolutely requiring shuffling + hand filling from Tax/Loam to make workable. 3 for 3 each turn is great, but that makes it more of a U/G/X or B/G/X draw engine to find Loam, and bother color combos have much better draw than Scroll Rack.
I'm kinda surprised Genesis was so high. I know I'm running way too ramp light, but it's always felt rather clunky to me. Occasionally a life saver, certainly, but quite frequently just very clunky. I ran it for awhile for part lulz since getting it into my GY was a pain in G/W that ran very limited enchantment tutoring, leaving me with an awesome vanilla 5CMC 4/4 elemental. Best part about it was that it soaked an awful lot of RFG removal and GY hate even though it sucked very badly for me.
On the flip side, if you have a stale meta in your playgroup, it'd be interesting to take this list (50 or 200) and make it a temporary banlist. Everyone has to build their decks with other cards than those that have risen to the top of the format.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I will note that the top 50 includes basic land, so you might want to change that first.
Not all basic lands are in the Top 50 list
I do wonder if the list would be any different if multiple cards were counted as multiples -- since this will tell us the popularity of certain colours by looking at the basic lands. That said, I am pretty impressed with this list and the time taken in writing the codes needed
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Since it's mostly mana rocks, tutors, and land, it would be interesting to combine the most necessary cards into a "toolkit" of sorts that would be a great suggestion for players looking to get into the format without budget constraints.
If you're choosing between EDH and building a decent deck for Standard/Modern, $200 of suggested staples and a Commander product of choice could go a long way, even if prices are higher for the format now.
I think I will do this one next. As a lot of decks in the database are outdated and it would be nice to see a top 50 of the current meta. I would expect the silly six drops and other newer cards to rank higher in this case.
In the lower numbers it is harder to say because I count a couple of cards that were badly formatted.
About 11300 different cards with at least 1 hit (10100 without magnus magicus decks)
About 8300 different cards with at least 2 hits
About 6000 different cards with at least 3 hits
About 5100 different cards with at least 4 hits
About 4500 different cards with at least 5 hits
1633 different cards with at least 25 hits
923 different cards with at least 50 hits
494 different cards with at least 100 hits
Sorting by color/type is a lot harder as I do not have access to the meta-data
of a card. Doing this will take a lot more effort. Maybe next week...
DECKS
Ertai | Squee | Roon | Aurelia
USEFUL RESOURCES
Commander Decklist Database
Statistical breakdown of the commander metagame
50 Commanders / 50 Decks
27 Colors / 27 Decks
Great work on the list though. Now we just need a top 25 most used Red cards in decks here lol. Since it's carbon footprint on the top 200 list is about as impactfull as the carbon footprint of a small dog.
That is pretty intuitive. Non-monoblack decks that can run these cards are not likely to run Cabal Coffers since it can be a dead draw if they somehow draw it without the sufficient number of swamps (note that they actually need at least four swamps to "profit" from Cabal Coffers. On the other hand, any decks which plays black are likely to run Urborg TOY simply because on its own, it is a mana fixer, at best or for monoblacks, it ups their Cabal Coffer mana production (note that technically, nonblack decks can run Urborg TOY if only to help Sundering Titan or combo off with Linvala + Kormus Bell.
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- No surprise that Damnation shows up above Wrath of God. White has a ton of similar options at 4-6 mana, whereas blacks other wrath effects are all 8+ mana.
- Funny to see Terramorphic Expanse at almost twice the appearance rate of Evolving Wilds.
- I'm surprised to see Maze of Ith so high on the list. I know most people think that card is much better than I do, but it's also $40 for a card that's not terribly exciting.
- I find it very surprising that Sword of Light and Shadow made an appearance but Sword of Feast and Famine did not.
- Condemn is ridiculously overrated
- I'm amazed that the staple fatties Primeval Titan and Consecrated Sphinx aren't a big higher on the list.
Those probably have to do because a lot of lists are older than those cards. I am currently tagging each deck with the date they last got updated so I can cut older decks from the stats. Tune in for a more up-to-date meta!
Magnus Magicus is a guy on this forum that contributed 188, mostly just for fun, decklists to the decklist database. As these decks do not represent the actual commander meta-game I did not want these to skew the statistics.
DECKS
Ertai | Squee | Roon | Aurelia
USEFUL RESOURCES
Commander Decklist Database
Statistical breakdown of the commander metagame
50 Commanders / 50 Decks
27 Colors / 27 Decks
They're fifteen bucks and almost impossible to find. Demonics are much easier to come by - duel decks + plentiful supply of revised ones for the most part. Same with Sol Ring before the format got huge, I go to a store that had a stack of 20+ of each of them in a case. The proprietor had only 3 Vampiric Tutors at most.
One should also consider the age of the decks in the list. If you chop off the list so that anything older than a year is excluded, then yes, the numbers would more accurately reflect what people are running. Old data won't include Primeval Titan, or at best would include it when it was $40 and much harder to obtain.
And now Prime Time is up there... in the #4 creature spot. And green owns the top 4 non-colorless creatures...
There are 54% as many Primeval Titan as there are Solemn Simulacrums, the #1 creature. An artifact creature that can go into any colored deck.
There are 68% as many Primeval Titan as there are Eternal Witnesses, the #1 colored, and #1 Green creature. One is a Mythic, the other an Uncommon.
Cards over $10 (med price, magiccards.info)
Primetime comes in as the #5 most popular card above $10. Behind 3 black "staples."
If you drop to cards above $5 you only add Sol Ring ($5.48) and Solemn Simulacrum ($8.26).
====
Consecrated Sphinx is the third Blue creature on the list, behind Phyrexian Metamorph, and Trinket Mage.
Consecrated Sphinx is the 6th Blue spell on the list, adding Mystical Tutor, Hinder and Fact or Fiction in front of it.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
This is a bit harder to do as not all decks are formatted correctly and my script does not yes associate a general with a particular decklist.
There are also a number of broken links. I will try to assemble a list of those and send you a report with some numbers.
DECKS
Ertai | Squee | Roon | Aurelia
USEFUL RESOURCES
Commander Decklist Database
Statistical breakdown of the commander metagame
50 Commanders / 50 Decks
27 Colors / 27 Decks
I'm wondering whether he meant this list or the other one...
Anyway, contrary to Sheldon, I would consider Sword of Light and Shadow to be a staple. Otherwise, nice article, I like reading deck breakdowns.
DECKS
Ertai | Squee | Roon | Aurelia
USEFUL RESOURCES
Commander Decklist Database
Statistical breakdown of the commander metagame
50 Commanders / 50 Decks
27 Colors / 27 Decks
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
agreed, thanks man
Also, no ABUR duals made the list, but most of the shocklands and fetches made it.
This would seem to indicate that the decklists on this site are skewed to the slightly-more budget conscious.
And yet, Mana Crypt, which is hard to be had at less than $70, makes an appearance.
EDH: U Arcum Dagsson (primer!) U