Thanks for doing this, Phil. I've been looking forward to this. It could use a bit of editing for spelling and grammar (if you like, I will be glad to send my suggestions/corrections to you), but in terms of content, it's just plain great. Really top notch stuff. Again, thanks.
As I've said before, I'm not sure Stax is the sort of thing I'd really play, as it's just not my style, but I still want to have a good grasp of the archetype, if nothing else so I know how to effectively combat it. Plus, I do sometimes step outside my comfort zone when I get a good idea or think of some funky card interactions, and I did pick up a Smokestack recently at a bargain price on ebay... so, who knows, maybe this thread will eventually convert me to the dark side.
For a decklist section, you could make a section at the end with links to other people's decks and a brief explanation of how to play it (which the author will provide in return for having their deck linked).
JWK gave me an idea. Since this is an archetype primer, how about a section on combating Stax.
No stax deck is alike, so this is a very huge undertaking. For instance, you and I play the same colors, but our decks operate extreamly differently. Coming up and describing that is not going to be easy.
This is very true. I think if you look at all the Esper stax lists on here, including both of our lists sharing the same general, you realize how everyone puts their own spin on stax. While they may share some of the same cards, there are subtle differences and play styles will be different for everyone. Looking forward to the decklist section.
Thanks for doing this, Phil. I've been looking forward to this. It could use a bit of editing for spelling and grammar (if you like, I will be glad to send my suggestions/corrections to you), but in terms of content, it's just plain great. Really top notch stuff. Again, thanks.
As I've said before, I'm not sure Stax is the sort of thing I'd really play, as it's just not my style, but I still want to have a good grasp of the archetype, if nothing else so I know how to effectively combat it. Plus, I do sometimes step outside my comfort zone when I get a good idea or think of some funky card interactions, and I did pick up a Smokestack recently at a bargain price on ebay... so, who knows, maybe this thread will eventually convert me to the dark side.
Any editing, lay out, what have you help is appreciated. I did this so there's finally a resource for anyone wanting to play stax. It would be selfish and one sided if I didn't include a lot of the member's thoughts and ideas in it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Any suggestions for mass discard/hand disruption? I'm currently running Mindslicer, Delirium Skeins and Rix Maadi in Malfegor, but I'm really interested in more options.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
They're pretty good (except for Sludge in this case, I'm not monoblack), but I'd rather have something that affects all opponents/all players. Like Syphon Mind.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
They're pretty good (except for Sludge in this case, I'm not monoblack), but I'd rather have something that affects all opponents/all players. Like Syphon Mind.
If you are drawing a fair amount of cards, Words of Waste is second to none.
And I guess Child of Alara for pentacolor, if you're feeling ambitious/insane.
I think I would have to agree with this. Esper's affinity for artifacts, which are going to be most of your primary stax pieces and some of your primary recursion engines too, makes it pretty broken. Plus, you get to break Zur in a whole new way now, using him to tutor up Mana Vortex and a bunch of other great stax 'chants. It's pretty brutal, really.
And I guess Child of Alara for pentacolor, if you're feeling ambitious/insane.
I think a stax deck could be made from basically any color combination, but I do agree with your post. Ertai, the Corrupted will probably be my first stax deck, and first real tricolor. (as soon as I get my hands on a few more cards, even with all of the Innistrad I opened and drafted I don't have an Isolated Chapel )
I think a stax deck could be made from basically any color combination, but I do agree with your post. Ertai, the Corrupted will probably be my first stax deck, and first real tricolor. (as soon as I get my hands on a few more cards, even with all of the Innistrad I opened and drafted I don't have an Isolated Chapel )
I agree that stax can be played in pretty much any color combination, but some colors, mainly black and white, lend themselves to the style of play easier than others. Green has some really nice hidden gems like Ritual of Subdual, but it is nothing black can't do just as easily through Infernal Darkness and Contamination. Blue or red are almost equal in my opinion after black and white, but blue might be slightly ahead given the gems it had back in Legends.
I think UW is better than WB for two-color. Hanna, Ship's Navigator is an excellent Stax general, despite not having a Stax effect herself. And of course there's always Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. Both are way better than Teysa, Orzhov Scion, who is kind of clunky and doesn't always interact well with the rest of a standard Stax package. (You have to run a lot of black creatures for her to be effective, and that prevents you from running other good cards.) Though the new Ghost Council may be interesting as a win-condition general in a WB Stax deck.
Also, I think Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker is significantly underestimated as a Stax general. IMO she's better than Hokori, Dust Drinker simply because she does better in multiplayer politics. Stax tends to get hated out quickly, and Michiko is a powerful rattlesnake to prevent that.
When I aim for resource denial, I really like having red on board, in all its land-nuking glory. Wildfire and Devastation do so much work.
Suppose I'll tweak my Mishra deck a bit more towards Stax. I already run several elements (Static Orb + Mishra's Helix form a nasty lock when combined with Unwinding Clock), so why not commit a bit more? ...
I actually have a Mishra Stax list, and there is a combo with him and Nether Void or something so that he actually works.
The new Obzedat I have been using for stax, and love it. Hanna is a beautiful stax commander, I have Hanna Stax
I have to disagree with the Michiko v Hokori idea. If you manage to t2 or t3 Hokori, you have probably just won the game, and it happens often. Hokori has an effect on the board as a whole, while Michiko is not that great. she only works with damage, so other effects that just target things or sweepers are still safe, so they can Krosan Grip, Aura of Silence, Murder, and Austere Command to their heart's content!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
Why Ertai, may I ask? I play him, but I don't play him with Stax for reasons of my own.
Duuno, really. I like that I can use him to turn many things into a counterspell. I would go Sharuum but s/he (not sure of gender) has a nasty reputation. None of the other Esper legends really do it for me. Plus Ertai has sentimental and flavor value to me.
If you have any suggestions for a stax commander let me know, I have a pretty deep card pool and a truck load of staxy stuff.
Zur has left a bad taste in the mouth of my lgs since the owner played a total lockout deck with him at the helm. I might do Nath. I hadn't even thought about him...
I was thinking that if I ever end up making a Stax deck, I'd likely go with Nath as the general. Green offers ramp and some good removal, black offers... well, everything black offers, from tutors on downward. Toss in the ability to force discard and create tokens at the same time and it seems Nath would be pretty good for Stax. One could always include Glissa as a means of recurring core stax artifacts.
As I've said before, I'm not sure Stax is the sort of thing I'd really play, as it's just not my style, but I still want to have a good grasp of the archetype, if nothing else so I know how to effectively combat it. Plus, I do sometimes step outside my comfort zone when I get a good idea or think of some funky card interactions, and I did pick up a Smokestack recently at a bargain price on ebay... so, who knows, maybe this thread will eventually convert me to the dark side.
JWK gave me an idea. Since this is an archetype primer, how about a section on combating Stax.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
This is very true. I think if you look at all the Esper stax lists on here, including both of our lists sharing the same general, you realize how everyone puts their own spin on stax. While they may share some of the same cards, there are subtle differences and play styles will be different for everyone. Looking forward to the decklist section.
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
Any editing, lay out, what have you help is appreciated. I did this so there's finally a resource for anyone wanting to play stax. It would be selfish and one sided if I didn't include a lot of the member's thoughts and ideas in it.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
They're pretty good (except for Sludge in this case, I'm not monoblack), but I'd rather have something that affects all opponents/all players. Like Syphon Mind.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
If you are drawing a fair amount of cards, Words of Waste is second to none.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
Mono-White for monocolor.
Orzhov for Bicolor
Esper for Tricolor.
And I guess Child of Alara for pentacolor, if you're feeling ambitious/insane.
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
I think I would have to agree with this. Esper's affinity for artifacts, which are going to be most of your primary stax pieces and some of your primary recursion engines too, makes it pretty broken. Plus, you get to break Zur in a whole new way now, using him to tutor up Mana Vortex and a bunch of other great stax 'chants. It's pretty brutal, really.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
I think a stax deck could be made from basically any color combination, but I do agree with your post.
Ertai, the Corrupted will probably be my first stax deck, and first real tricolor. (as soon as I get my hands on a few more cards, even with all of the Innistrad I opened and drafted I don't have an Isolated Chapel )
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
I agree that stax can be played in pretty much any color combination, but some colors, mainly black and white, lend themselves to the style of play easier than others. Green has some really nice hidden gems like Ritual of Subdual, but it is nothing black can't do just as easily through Infernal Darkness and Contamination. Blue or red are almost equal in my opinion after black and white, but blue might be slightly ahead given the gems it had back in Legends.
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
Also, I think Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker is significantly underestimated as a Stax general. IMO she's better than Hokori, Dust Drinker simply because she does better in multiplayer politics. Stax tends to get hated out quickly, and Michiko is a powerful rattlesnake to prevent that.
Suppose I'll tweak my Mishra deck a bit more towards Stax. I already run several elements (Static Orb + Mishra's Helix form a nasty lock when combined with Unwinding Clock), so why not commit a bit more? ...
L1 Judge
The new Obzedat I have been using for stax, and love it. Hanna is a beautiful stax commander, I have Hanna Stax
I have to disagree with the Michiko v Hokori idea. If you manage to t2 or t3 Hokori, you have probably just won the game, and it happens often. Hokori has an effect on the board as a whole, while Michiko is not that great. she only works with damage, so other effects that just target things or sweepers are still safe, so they can Krosan Grip, Aura of Silence, Murder, and Austere Command to their heart's content!
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
Duuno, really. I like that I can use him to turn many things into a counterspell. I would go Sharuum but s/he (not sure of gender) has a nasty reputation. None of the other Esper legends really do it for me. Plus Ertai has sentimental and flavor value to me.
If you have any suggestions for a stax commander let me know, I have a pretty deep card pool and a truck load of staxy stuff.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
I know. I occasionally Arcane Denial my own artifacts in response to the trigger, too.
Mind linking the list? I'd love to see it.
L1 Judge
Lemme just find the list I stole my list from and link you to it A google search of Mishra EDH combo stax will do it for ya too!
My favorite stax commanders, top 5:
Nath of the Gilt Leaf, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Zur the Enchanter, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Hanna, Ship's Navigator
that is in no particular order, and is not a favorite's list, it's who I have had the easiest time winning with
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
What a difference he makes.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.