[Official]
The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
Poll: Which WHITE CREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which BLACK CREATURES should be removed from the list? (Pick 4)
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which GREEN NONCREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
Poll: Which COLORLESS NONCREATURE should be removed from the list?
Ended Feb 16, 2019
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I mean, the double black casting cost sucks, but nuking any card I n a graveyard for one colorless is really good.
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I also don't know about other peoples' metas, but pure graveyard hate cards can be a dead card maybe a quarter of games for me. At least Relic replaces itself and Bog taps for B.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
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I don't much mind which make it as they are all legit cards. Of these Withered Wretch was the only one already on the list which could be removed. I think its an amazingly powerful card but the issue I sort of have with it is that its so powerful and black relies quite a bit on reanimation. If someone steals or clones it its a bad backfire so I don't particularly like running it in black decks that utilize reanimation which for me tends to be most black decks.
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For the ones I passed on, Butcher of Malakir is horribly expensive, Coffin Queen is solid but kind of slow and fragile, I've never actually seen Crypt Rats in a game, Erebos, God of the Dead takes a ton of mana and the lifegain effect is minor most games, and Myojin of Night's Reach costs about a million and can't be cheated in.
Shocked folks are sleeping on the Queen. So much value on a three drop and she's not any more fragile than most other creatures in a format that doesn't run Shocks and Pyroclasms.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
- Crypt Rats
- Erebos, God of the Dead
- Withered Wretch
While I feel all of the options are useful, I selected these three due to the fact that they can all immediately impact the game on their own without any other cards (aside from mana sources). This is why I wouldn't think to include the black Primordial on the list. I'm curious why you think it demands a quick answer. What's your meta like? I generally laugh at creatures.I only have one Reanimator deck (which I haven't played since before Baleful Force's printing), but I play against them fairly often online and in my experience, I've seen nothing to indicate that the Force is a staple.
Your comments on reanimation spells confuse me given that the ones you mention are already on the Top 50 List.
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Nothing about this list makes sense to me. No Necrotic Ooze? The card that kills through any amount of removal with Phyrexian Devourer and Triskelion and that's fueled by Survival of the Fittest, Buried Alive, etc? We're talking about broken decks but we don't have that one on here? No Phyrexian Delver, a card that's played in the vast majority of the competitive B/G/x decks given the ease of tutoring it up with Green spells? No Faerie Macabre, another card that's almost universally played in B/G/X decks as free + tutorable + instant-speed Graveyard hate? No Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, who is arguably the most popular mono-Black Commander (maybe tied with Chainer)? Geth is somehow on the list but he isn't? No Magus of the Coffers, a card responsible for a reasonable % of infinite mana combos? I don't get it. Which is it? The list is missing a significant % of the legitimately broken cards and yet when I bring up turn 2-4 Baleful Force people shrug it off as being far too weak for the format (despite the fact that virtually all of the B/G/X Reanimator Primers highly recommend the card as well). How can things like Grave Titan possibly be good if Sepulchral Primordial is bad?
Just go through the "competitive" Black decks on the multiplayer forum and try and find half these cards. Clique? None of the lists. Geth? Not unless he's the Commander and even then people use Chainer. Myojin? Zero copies. Mindslicer? Zero copies. Butcher? Fewer than zero copies. None of those cards should be anywhere near the list. Even Nirkana Revenant sees very little play given the plethora of significantly more durable mana doubling options and the advent of Crypt Ghast. Combo staples and top-tier hosers such as Necrotic Ooze and Faerie Macabre are significantly more deserving that marginal filler such as these. Unless, of course, we're suddenly not assuming that everyone is playing broken decks at which point I don't see how Sepulchral Primordial can possibly be too weak if people are just jamming random Titans.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I can only speak for myself. Yes, I laugh at Baleful Force. But, I also laugh at most creatures. I play a lot of creature-light Stax builds with plenty of answers. What are your criteria? YMMV, and obviously does, but I'd much rather reanimate the Demon and immediately tutor for the card of my choice — barring Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff — than recur a creature with no immediate board impact like Sheoldred, Whispering One or Force. What's with the polarity? You're talking about decks, the list is about cards. Yes, some of the cards on the list might be used in combos. But, if you read the original post in this and have forgotten, here's a reminder: You're more than welcome to vote. Sure, if it survives to untap. Again, what's with the binary? There are plenty of cards that many folks consider to be good that aren't on the list. Wow, and I thought I had time to kill…
Again, speaking for myself, I quite like Mindslicer. Butcher of Malakir, too. With any sacrifice outlet, both can have an immediate impact on the board. Yes, they should. Why? Because this list reflects the MTGS community members who elected to vote. What's your n? Also, which population are you surveying?
Even with Ghast, Revenant is still akin to a second copy. Do you have any conflicts of interest to declare? Are you on Sepulchral Primordial's payroll? Okay, so maybe not cash money, but any other kickbacks they're giving you, like free timeshares in the graveyard? It's okay, we won't tell, just be honest and let us know.
What Black creature do you Entomb and Reanmate in B/X decks in the early stages of the game.
To have a meaningful discussion. What's the point in rating Grave Titan vs Sepulchral Primordial if you need to be playing with a turn 4-8 ("live play," not goldfishes) deck to stand a chance at winning? What role could random beatsticks possibly have in that sphere?
No, I remember Necrotic Ooze's text. "All activated abilities of all creature cards in all graveyards" sounds pretty broad to me.
My meta, the MTGS Multiplayer Commander decklists, the MTGS EDH/multiplayer Cube thread, the MTGS multiplayer forums.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I'm well aware that tone is subjective. That being typed, I find your tone combative, and, if I'm interpreting it as you intend, that baffles me since we're discussing a game for 13 year olds, not systems-level life-altering affairs. However, I will take you at your word that you'd like to engage in "a meaningful discussion." Context is a thing. To maximize Ooze, there must be creatures in graveyards. There are plenty of decks using B and plenty of metagames where Ooze has limited utility. Contrast that with Linvala, Keeper of Silence. It requires nothing else to be useful and often has a significant impact the turn it enters the battlefield. I don't have the time or interest in collecting data on how many commonly-accepted-as-useful creatures have activated abilities vs those that don't, but, again, speaking only for myself, I play with a lot of W and in my decks with a significant number of White creatures, a good portion of the ones I run have static abilities. This makes it easy for me to slot in Linvala. If my opponents don't have creatures with activated abilities, or any creatures at all, I still have an efficiently-costed flyer. Huh. Again, I haven't played Reanimator in quite some time, but as I already mentioned, my experiences playing against it have been very different from yours in terms of cards I see frequently being used. Several of the cards you mentioned as staples I've never seen played at all, in Reanimator decks or any other build.
There's only one criterion; it's the card that leads to the highest % of game wins given a somewhat unknown meta (you won't know which Commander people are selecting beforehand but you'll know the contents of their decks) of competitive (turn 4-8) EDH decks.
If you consider Jin-Gitaxias, Iona and Baleful Force to be unplayable in multiplayer Reanimator what exactly do you see people recurring?
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
- Swords to Plowshares
- Path to Exile
- Big Game Hunter
- Damnation
- Wrath of God
- Rout
- Catastrophe
An acquaintance of mine has a $3000 (USD) The Mimeoplasm deck that quickly searches up Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and though my deck is a mere fraction of the cost of theirs it's still managed to hold its own against it. Again, let me be more clear. While I see how you might have inferred that I think the three cards you mention in this quote are unplayable in multiplayer Reanimator, that's not what I wrote or intended to convey. I was referring specifically to the following as cards I've never seen played at all:- Necrotic Ooze
- Phyrexian Devourer
- Phyrexian Delver
- Faerie Macabre
I've seen Jin recurred with enough frequency that it'd be my own go-to choice if I were playing Reanimator. Indeed, I run it in my own Gwendlyn di Corci Stax deck (which has a small Reanimator subtheme). I've faced off against Baleful Force but never in Reanimator.Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
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Removed: Braids, Cabal Minion (because she is now banned), Myojin of Night's Reach
Added: Erebos, God of the Dead, Viscera Seer
Edit: Going to start things off by nominating Black Sun's Zenith and Dismember, (for obvious reasons).
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I would like to nominate Phyrexian Reclamation and Corpse Dance.
I normally don't care much for nonblack targeting removal but its just an on demand answer that can repeatedly say not to something. Its sort of like a mini wrath in that it can push opponents off the board fairly easy but it sticks around as well. Its a cheap to use sac outlet with very good profit attached.
I will also nominate Wake the Dead.
It has been surprisingly amazing in my own experience. Its a little irritating that it limits itself to opponents combat but it can make for a really key block and or just great ETB / Leaves play value generation. Got a Gary in your bin??? Why not murder everyone by stacking an him plus another 8 devotion into play for one card plus some mana on an opponents turn.
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I can't picture looking at imperial seal and grim tutor and thinking "no, there are other cards I can put in my deck that will win more games".
The best card in my deck for 1 more mana? The best card in my deck for 3 more mana? Those are both still so far ahead of the curve that I think it would be absurd to cut them.
I'll nominate Sudden Spoiling. I have recently started playing it more and it does work all day.
I had run it a few times in the past. Of the few situations I have found it playable tends to be jacking someone else's Cabal Coffers but that's narrow enough that it rarely comes up. Most of the time I have not found the card to be that useful. You can in a pinch play it as an Extract which... could be decent depending on how badly you suddenly need to extract a combo piece on someone.
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[Modern] Allies