'Casual' versus 'Competitive' Commander

  • #580
    Nothing about EDH is worth stressing over. It's just a game... a game which doesn't mean anything.

    If someone plays a card that spoils my fun, I take solace in the knowledge that retribution will be swift and cruel in the next game. Politics > whining

    EDH
    blue mana Azami (video)
    :symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
    black mana Drana (video) (retired)
    :symw::symr: Brion (video)
    :symb::symr: Wort (video)
    blue mana Arcum (video) (retired)
    :symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
    B Shirei (video)
    WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
    R Urabrask (video)
    WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
    W Isamaru
    UB Grimgrin
    U Mistform Ultimus (video)
    UBR Gwendlyn (video)
    URG Animar (video)
    RG Thromok
    WB Selenia

    Standard

    WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
    WUB Battle of Wits!
  • #581
    Quote from Altik_0
    What exactly do you mean by "smacking them on the nose with a newspaper"? Because IMO quitting because you're butthurt your lands got destroyed is just that: you're refusing the player the satisfaction of playing through the game and possibly winning because of his strategy, just because you find it boring.
    If all you care about is the win, you shouldn't care if you won through combat or by the opponent scooping. If you do care how you win, then you've established that winning isn't the only aspect of playing a game, and we can have a conversation.
  • #582
    Man we resorted to personal attacks lol

    No I don't flip tables, I scoop and others sometimes do as well. The Kaalia player can take that as a sign of winning, which they did technically. Scooping is forfeiting. However I think they realize why the table scooped and they usually change decks. At least in my playgroup that is.

    I play Magic to have fun. I don't think mass LD is fun, especially when its not going to win on that turn. As such, as someone who is attempting to have fun, I rather scoop and speed up the game by having one less player, or inspire others to do the same and have the game end that way. Either way I only get to play Magic one day a week and the 5 hours are hours I rather not spend staring at my hand in boredom.

    As for right or wrong, we are all expressing opinions and personal feelings on a tactic and how enjoyable it is. If your enjoyment is to play by yourself while everyone else just stares at their hands, that cool, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it, or sit through it. Its similar to a Lattice Forge Disk lock. Do all of you guys really sit there and wait for the 1/1 Myr they have out to kill everyone, or do you scoop to get to another game?
    Host of the ">NYC Magic Meetup Group - Twitter - PucaTrade Want List

    EDH Decks:
    B Toshiro Umezawa B
    W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
    G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
    UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
    BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
    GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
    GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG
  • #583
    A healthy EDH meta is one that has both casual and competitive playgroups and allows players to pick which of them to participate in on any given game. This is what I have around my area and it works quite well.

    Although EDH began as a casual format, I see no reason why it has to stay that way. Let it evolve based on the players' needs and wants. If you play your precon Commander deck and you want a low-intensity game with a lot of silly effects and no "serious" players, that should not interfere with my desire to have a high-level game with a bunch of ruthless combo-control decks. No one can say the format should be casual or competitive, and if they try to then they are wrong. EDH is both. Your playgroup is what happens to be one or the other.

    Player dissatisfaction with EDH being too casual or too competitive usually stems from a meta that is predominantly one almost to the exclusion of the other. If somebody wants to play a causal game but most of the players at his or her LGS are competitive, then that player will feel left out. It inevitably happens, and it's unfortunate, but trying to regulate the format so it's forced to become one or the other is the absolute worst "solution" there is.

    Speaking of which, players should also note that the official banlist is not their personal tool. If you don't like a certain card or strategy, don't whine about it every opportunity you get. Instead, sit down with your friends and form your own kitchen table banlist. Make it a rule that if a player wants to participate in your group's game, then he or she must abide by the banlist. This will be attractive to some and dissuasive to others, but at the end of the day you're playing a variant that you enjoy more. If somebody is playing a deck that nobody else in the playgroup likes, ban him or her from your group (or at least that deck).

    If you are the minority voice in your meta, then this is harder. You should usually be able to find at least one or two other players that want the same thing out of a game as you do, so look for them and get some games going.

    As far as events go, your LGS (or the TO) will set the guidelines. If you don't like them, don't play in the event. If you do play, then don't get angry when someone shows up with a deck that isn't of the same caliber as yours; organized EDH is like any other format - people build different styles and levels of deck. Nobody is forcing you to take part in the event; if you participate then you accept the possibility that someone will show up with a $3000 deck and crush you and someone else will have a $50 deck and be crushed by you.
    Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/
    EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.

    [EDH]
    BUG Combo/Control:
    BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
  • #584
    Quote from zer0faults
    Its similar to a Lattice Forge Disk lock. Do all of you guys really sit there and wait for the 1/1 Myr they have out to kill everyone, or do you scoop to get to another game?


    No, I check my hand and board over and over again to find a way I can prevent the Arcum player from winning. I still try to win, and sometimes, this is actually the case. If I don't find a way, I scoop - but that doesn't mean that I think disk lock shouldn't be played. It just means that I accept that the game has come to an end. That is the moment when I start to think about how to defeat the Arcum player next time.
    Last edited by Son_of_the_Suns: 5/6/2012 2:07:51 PM
    DCI Level 2 Judge (NRW, Germany)
  • #585
    I feel if you overreact to someone being a troll give them a reason to continue doing it because they get off on irritating people . The best way to combat those types of people is to not give them the satisfaction of losing your cool and shuffle up for the next game or find a new group to play with.
  • #586
    Quote from Epochalyptik

    Although EDH began as a casual format, I see no reason why it has to stay that way. Let it evolve based on the players' needs and wants. If you play your precon Commander deck and you want a low-intensity game with a lot of silly effects and no "serious" players, that should not interfere with my desire to have a high-level game with a bunch of ruthless combo-control decks. No one can say the format should be casual or competitive, and if they try to then they are wrong. EDH is both. Your playgroup is what happens to be one or the other.


    Yes because all formats have to become competitive formats once they get popular. A good reason to keep it casual is to keep prices down on "staple" cards. Another good reason is to reduce the overall player dissatisfaction. Yet another good reason to keep it casual is to keep it friendly to new players. I've seen countless people attend FNM and then quit playing magic. I've seen people show up at a prerelease, get their packs, and leave. More often than not the reason I hear for why is "I'd rather have fun playing than deal with these jerks who think it's a job" or similar comments. (Not calling anyone a jerk, just stating that I've heard others address competitive players as such). Competitive play can be friendly, I won't say it can't, but it's far to often it turns what should be a fun game into a million dollar poker stare off with new players getting trounced and losing interest in the game all together. When I hear "competitive" players saying they're glad there are so many new people, because it's so many easy points and easy wins it makes me feel disgusted with the game. When I see people running netdecked T1 decks in an FNM because they know the people who are regulars there aren't running T1 they're running their own homebrew decks and trying to just have a good night it makes me feel like the average "competitive" player is just going to be a jerk to people for the sake of his/her ego. Fortunately I know some competitive players who aren't like that so I know it's not everyone, but it certainly is some.

    Aside from that point, you're right. It isn't a purely casual or a purely competitive format. It's better suited to casual play than competitive play. It always has been and will be. It can certainly be either, and everyone should adapt to it the way they enjoy playing and find others who share their feelings on the game to play with.

    Quote from Epochalyptik

    As far as events go, your LGS (or the TO) will set the guidelines. If you don't like them, don't play in the event. If you do play, then don't get angry when someone shows up with a deck that isn't of the same caliber as yours; organized EDH is like any other format - people build different styles and levels of deck. Nobody is forcing you to take part in the event; if you participate then you accept the possibility that someone will show up with a $3000 deck and crush you and someone else will have a $50 deck and be crushed by you.


    No one is forcing mister $3000 deck to ruin everyone else's good time either. Not all events have to be Pro Tour finals. You can host an EDH event just for fun. Though you will always have Spike show up to bully the other players to his way of playing, it doesn't mean it's the only way or the right way.
    Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
  • #587
    Quote from K405
    Yes because all formats have to become competitive formats once they get popular. A good reason to keep it casual is to keep prices down on "staple" cards. Another good reason is to reduce the overall player dissatisfaction. Yet another good reason to keep it casual is to keep it friendly to new players. I've seen countless people attend FNM and then quit playing magic. I've seen people show up at a prerelease, get their packs, and leave. More often than not the reason I hear for why is "I'd rather have fun playing than deal with these jerks who think it's a job" or similar comments. (Not calling anyone a jerk, just stating that I've heard others address competitive players as such). Competitive play can be friendly, I won't say it can't, but it's far to often it turns what should be a fun game into a million dollar poker stare off with new players getting trounced and losing interest in the game all together. When I hear "competitive" players saying they're glad there are so many new people, because it's so many easy points and easy wins it makes me feel disgusted with the game. When I see people running netdecked T1 decks in an FNM because they know the people who are regulars there aren't running T1 they're running their own homebrew decks and trying to just have a good night it makes me feel like the average "competitive" player is just going to be a jerk to people for the sake of his/her ego. Fortunately I know some competitive players who aren't like that so I know it's not everyone, but it certainly is some.


    How exactly do you propose to "keep it casual?" I don't believe that restrictions should be imposed that force the format to be as good as it could be. If you and your playgroup want to customize the rules to exclude some of the higher-power combos and cards in the format, then by all means go for it. I absolutely disagree that the format in its entirety should be "kept casual" though. That shuts half of the players out right there and only to protect the less hardcore ones. Learning who to play with is as essential a process as learning how to play. We shouldn't be trying to define EDH, we should be trying to define playgroups.

    As for the players showing up to events, nobody is saying that a hardcore player ruins the experience for everybody. You will have some people that feel that way and others who love to take it as a challenge. If you don't want that kind of player entering into an event, then design the event differently and restrict or ban certain strategies or cards. I went to one of my LGSs and took first in an EDH tourney playing a high-caliber combo-control deck against some lower-level players, but not one person complained that they weren't having fun because of my deck or strategy.
    Last edited by Epochalyptik: 5/6/2012 2:47:13 PM
    Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/
    EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.

    [EDH]
    BUG Combo/Control:
    BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
  • #588
    I used to play a Korlash, Heir to Blackblade deck that had an infinite mana combo and Exsanguinate in it, but the combo was slow and difficult to put together and I hadn't even realized it was in the deck at the time I built it. The deck was built to win via general damage and played a lot of equipment, but people would still give me a hard time because I could pull out a win when I was about to lose if nobody checked my boardstate. They didn't take into account that for every game I won via Exsanguinate, I won 5 others through combat.

    Moral of the story: people will whine about anything in the game they aren't pleased with. I'm just fed up with those same people trying to get cards officially banned because they can't afford to play them or don't like when they get beat by them. If you aren't pleased with something in the format, then ban it in your playgroup. If you don't like that my BUG deck goes infinite, ask me not to play in your games. I'll go find another group that enjoys the same things in a game that I do. If you let me play knowing my deck and strategy (and keep in mind that I'm not playing for the sake of beating up on all the less expensive decks), then you've no right to complain if I win that way.
    Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/
    EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.

    [EDH]
    BUG Combo/Control:
    BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
  • #589
    Merged: "QQ more...." into this thread. The topic was too similar to warrant a separate thread.
    [EDH Primers] Jenara | Marton | Thrun | Lin Sivvi | Toshiro
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  • #590
    The only thing that really bugs me is when people try to pick apart the flavor in my decks to "spike" it up. A recent conversation with a Spike over a small EDH game at the local shop. Just me and my friend bashing out a game. My friend using my monoblack vamp tribal, and me using my All-in Kaalia.

    Spike: "You know who the general of that deck should be? Griselbrand."
    Me: "But that's not a vampire. Wouldn't fit the flavor."
    Spike: "Nah, I still think it should be griselbrand lol."

    I like that deck because it's only vampires. That's what makes it interesting. I find if I don't build around a flavor, I find the deck very boring to play. My only "goodstuff" deck I tired of very quickly, sadly, and I'm thinking of redoing it with an insect theme instead. Is anowon not the best monoblack general? Sure, but he fits the deck really well. Is Eladamri the best elf general? Probably not, but he's my favorite monogreen legend. Are there better choices for a pauper general than Ramirez, using the uncommon general rule? Sure, but that defeats the entire flavor behind commander if you ask me.

    Not that my decks don't try to win, mind you. Braids always gets a number of groans from my playgroup when I start going off big time styley. But I still keep her flavor, baby, I'm totally vorthos over my deck. A Jhoira deck without her Timebug and Toolbox is no deck to me, and tribal is TRIBAL for me, baby! I even coordinate the basic lands in my decks. Grin

    Props to Theismisacrime for the sig! Click for Trade list!

    Major EDH player! Current decks: UUBraids, Waifu | UGZegana | RGWEnchantress Uril, the Miststalker | WBTriad of Fates (new!) | RBGXira Arien Re-dredge-imator (unretired!)
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    Retired! Kangee | Kaalia
  • #591
    Quote from Son_of_the_Suns
    No, I check my hand and board over and over again to find a way I can prevent the Arcum player from winning. I still try to win, and sometimes, this is actually the case. If I don't find a way, I scoop - but that doesn't mean that I think disk lock shouldn't be played. It just means that I accept that the game has come to an end. That is the moment when I start to think about how to defeat the Arcum player next time.


    Exactly. I don't think people shouldn't play mass LD. I just won't entertain the idea of wasting my afternoon while they do it. My time is valuable to me, and so the 1 day a week I get to play and trade, I try to optimize.
    Host of the ">NYC Magic Meetup Group - Twitter - PucaTrade Want List

    EDH Decks:
    B Toshiro Umezawa B
    W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
    G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
    UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
    BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
    GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
    GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG
  • #592
    Quote from K405
    Yes because all formats have to become competitive formats once they get popular. A good reason to keep it casual is to keep prices down on "staple" cards. Another good reason is to reduce the overall player dissatisfaction. Yet another good reason to keep it casual is to keep it friendly to new players. I've seen countless people attend FNM and then quit playing magic. I've seen people show up at a prerelease, get their packs, and leave. More often than not the reason I hear for why is "I'd rather have fun playing than deal with these jerks who think it's a job" or similar comments. (Not calling anyone a jerk, just stating that I've heard others address competitive players as such). Competitive play can be friendly, I won't say it can't, but it's far to often it turns what should be a fun game into a million dollar poker stare off with new players getting trounced and losing interest in the game all together. When I hear "competitive" players saying they're glad there are so many new people, because it's so many easy points and easy wins it makes me feel disgusted with the game. When I see people running netdecked T1 decks in an FNM because they know the people who are regulars there aren't running T1 they're running their own homebrew decks and trying to just have a good night it makes me feel like the average "competitive" player is just going to be a jerk to people for the sake of his/her ego. Fortunately I know some competitive players who aren't like that so I know it's not everyone, but it certainly is some.

    Aside from that point, you're right. It isn't a purely casual or a purely competitive format. It's better suited to casual play than competitive play. It always has been and will be. It can certainly be either, and everyone should adapt to it the way they enjoy playing and find others who share their feelings on the game to play with.



    No one is forcing mister $3000 deck to ruin everyone else's good time either. Not all events have to be Pro Tour finals. You can host an EDH event just for fun. Though you will always have Spike show up to bully the other players to his way of playing, it doesn't mean it's the only way or the right way.


    I agree that there are many spike players that can be dicks. I think that more than anything casual players hate the attitude of the aggressor more than the way he won. I know some competitive people that I know from the beginning I'll lose to. I can have fun seeing how far I can get. This usually applies to actual real life friends/acquaintances. I really don't appeciate the attitude some player exhibit when they play "competitively".

    When playing with strangers especially online tensions are usually higher. This is amplified when playing with competitive people. In sports, school, and even magic males especially have a subconsciousness need to show others that they are the alpha male or at least that they shouldn't be stepped on.

    Get a bunch of homely nerds in a room and watch their "power struggle"(stereotype. Not always true). Some nerds I know have literally no life and hang out in card shops all day. They want to be good at something, to make themselves feel better for being a waste of life. They do this by stepping on other people to benefit themselves. Again this is a stereotype, but I have seen it.

    If everyone was more evenly skilled, then there would be less "trolls" or "competitive players". Some people are only competitive because they win against people with "worse" decks. I guess I just can't stand overly competitive people unless they in a tournament, you know the appropriate place to be competitive unless you deck testing.

    I believe some of the worst man children who care nothing but winning have some serious mental issues. Thankfully most people aren't this way. As I said way earlier I don't like attitudes more than decks. I would lose any day to a stable, respectable, calm guy with a sense of humor with a degenerate combo deck. Generally though I like the thrill of the hunt. Not like this-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs5TlfXytzM

    Sorry for rambling rant. I had a thought and went with it.
    I finally have one them fancy shmancy Signatures.

    My Saffi deck


    Quote from Jivanmukta
    When you stare into EDH, I stare back at you.
  • #593
    Quote from Epochalyptik
    =I absolutely disagree that the format in its entirety should be "kept casual" though. That shuts half of the players out right there and only to protect the less hardcore ones.


    Just like I absolutely disagree that Legacy and Vintage should be kept entirely competitive yet they are anyway. And before you try to say they aren't I invite you to look at some price lists before you even consider it. You're point is what exactly, that only competitive players deserve to be noticed? It might not be but that's that it looks like. It cuts no one out. If people want to play EDH competitively I really don't care if they do. Do so at a tournament. If you join in on a game I'm in with other people, and we specifically say we're playing casually, and combo out in the first 4 turns chances are good you're not suited to be playing that deck casually. And if you get upset when we don't invite you into the next game you definitely need to reevaluate why you're playing EDH.

    Quote from Epochalyptik
    Learning who to play with is as essential a process as learning how to play. We shouldn't be trying to define EDH, we should be trying to define playgroups.


    This part I agree with up to the "Defining EDH" part, and everything after it 100% however. Without definition a thing is formless and without meaning.
    Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
  • #594
    Quote from K405
    Just like I absolutely disagree that Legacy and Vintage should be kept entirely competitive yet they are anyway. And before you try to say they aren't I invite you to look at some price lists before you even consider it. You're point is what exactly, that only competitive players deserve to be noticed? It might not be but that's that it looks like. It cuts no one out. If people want to play EDH competitively I really don't care if they do. Do so at a tournament. If you join in on a game I'm in with other people, and we specifically say we're playing casually, and combo out in the first 4 turns chances are good you're not suited to be playing that deck casually. And if you get upset when we don't invite you into the next game you definitely need to reevaluate why you're playing EDH.


    I do agree that Legacy and Vintage are ultra competitive formats, but that's at the high level. Many players' casual decks technically qualify as Legacy and Vintage-legal, it's just that they would never play in a tourney with them because of the power curve and the barriers to entry.

    I agree completely with what you're saying and you seem to agree with what I'm saying: it's who you play with that's most important. EDH tourneys can be expected to be much like any other kind of event: the more competitive players will usually have the advantage over the casual ones. It's parallel to FNM. The ones that join in on casual games and mop the floor with everyone are just dicks. The key to stopping them from giving you trouble is to regulate the playgroups, not the entire format.

    Quote from K405
    This part I agree with up to the "Defining EDH" part, and everything after it 100% however. Without definition a thing is formless and without meaning.


    I mean to say that we shouldn't try to make EDH a rigid format by laying out restrictive banlists and whatnot. Rather than try to say the format should be casual or competitive, let it be both and allow players to pick what they want it to be on a personal level. Players should exercise control over their playgroups rather than try to exercise it over EDH as a whole.
    Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/
    EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.

    [EDH]
    BUG Combo/Control:
    BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
  • #595
    I agree that it seems we have a similar outlook, just some minor differences. Also when I say "you" in the above example I don't mean you specifically I just mean it as a generalization for people joining into games. I re-read it and it comes across a bit harsher than I meant for it to.
    Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost. Justice urged on my exalted Creator: Divine Power made me, The Supreme Wisdom and the Primal Love. Nothing was made before me but eternal things And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope - You Who Enter Here.
  • #596
    Quote from K405
    This part I agree with up to the "Defining EDH" part, and everything after it 100% however. Without definition a thing is formless and without meaning.


    A lot of things do not have a clear definition. 'Games' for example.
    Multi
    G Patron of the Orochi
    GU Vorel of the Hull Clade
    WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
    R Fumiko the Lowblood
    GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
    GWUBR Sliver Overlord
    UBR Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
    R Joven
    WU Bruna, Light of Alabaster

    Theme
    GUWBR Reaper King - Scarecrows
    GW Krond the Dawn-Clad - Scales
    U Sakashima the Impostor - Masks
    WGURB Karona, False God - Beauties
    UB Ramirez DePietro - Pirates
    URG Riku of Two Reflections - Steampunk Amberground
  • #597
    As others have pointed out this is really a playgroup issue. You have to find people to play with who share your attitude about the game - be it casual or competitive.

    What frustrates me as a casual player is that this makes the portability of the format pretty close to zero. I can't go to a store and join an EDH game because without fail some of the players there will be stomping the rest with competitive decks. I'd love it if people shared my principals on keeping the game friendly and fun, but not everyone shares my disdain for infinite comboes, 1-shot kills, and locks etc.

    I don't play other constructed formats because I find competitive games are a race to the bottom. A handful of decks reign supreme and anything creative is doomed to be stomped by the netdecks. EDH is the same, each colour has about 35 "goodstuff" cards that "belong" in just about every deck of those colours if you want to optimize it. Personally I want to see different cards in my games, not sol ring and genesis and whatnot game after game after game.

    So I think casual players have a legitimate grievance. I don't see how competitive players can complain though. Go play standard/legacy/limited/modern... those are exactly what you're looking for.
    My EDH Blog: Macaroni or Cheese
  • #598
    Quote from Aitrus
    I don't see how competitive players can complain though. Go play standard/legacy/limited/modern... those are exactly what you're looking for.


    Go back and think about that. Why would there exist both a Standard and a Modern format? Because they provide different play experiences. Different competitive players will like different formats. You can't say to a Legacy player "Go play standard, that's exactly what you're looking for, because both are competitive".

    In the same way, there is a difference between competitive standard and competitive commander. You can't just swap one for the other.
    Multi
    G Patron of the Orochi
    GU Vorel of the Hull Clade
    WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
    R Fumiko the Lowblood
    GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
    GWUBR Sliver Overlord
    UBR Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
    R Joven
    WU Bruna, Light of Alabaster

    Theme
    GUWBR Reaper King - Scarecrows
    GW Krond the Dawn-Clad - Scales
    U Sakashima the Impostor - Masks
    WGURB Karona, False God - Beauties
    UB Ramirez DePietro - Pirates
    URG Riku of Two Reflections - Steampunk Amberground
  • #600
    If you aren't playing EDH casually, you aren't playing it right. My group recently made the decision to stop playing with one of the players, because he is a complete spike, and refuses to listen to us about playing competitively in a casual meta. Even when 4 of us go all out against him, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone but him to win.

    The competitive formats are PRECISELY what competitive players should be playing, but they won't. These are the same kind of players who will go choose out the little kid in the room and stomp him using some ridiculous deck using the power 9 just because the kid doesn't know any better. It isn't the game itself that gives them satisfaction. It is the winning and rubbing it in your face. These are the same people who will sit and bad mouth people they kill in fps games. It is usually best just to avoid them.
    http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

    EDH is a CASUAL format. Get with the program, or GTFO.
  • #601
    I have to agree with TobyornotToby here, competitive EDH players don't have to fit the same mold that competitive modern/standard players do. They also don't all fit the same EDH spike mold either. There's a very good player at my LGS, heavy hitter in the Illinois tournament scene, and yeah, he's a spike. But he's good natured and you can really only see him getting upset right when it's clear he's lost. Even then he just moves on. I'd play any number of games with him before I play a game with some player who gets upset that there U/G tribal snake deck didn't win because I accidentally stumbled out some clunky combo with Mindmoil/Thought Reflection/Whirlpool cards etc. in Niv Mizzet.
    People need to take themselves less seriously. Not to speak poorly of the casual crowd, but seeing posts on here about how upset people get because some other player cast Armageddon, it just seems so trivial. If you lost you lost. I'm assuming you weren't playing for ante or money so you didn't really lose anything. You also didn't lose or waste your time. You spent your time playing a diverse game, and it seems odd that you don't expect the expectable. Sure LD is unfortunate, but mana rocks didn't stop being important in EDH. Extra turns for one player are boring, but chances are the game's over so hurray you can play another one! I guess that's really the message, the game is over, Hurray, you can start another game.
    It might become a different story if one player consistently plays a strategy that you don't enjoy, but neither of you are in the wrong. The optimal thing for you to do, if you're offended is approach the situation or default from those games involving that player. Whining anonymously on the internet won't solve your problems.
    -This signature intentionally left blank to increase general intrigue and mystery-
  • #602
    Quote from DrendDragonspawn
    If you aren't playing EDH casually, you aren't playing it right.


    This is the kind of logic that closes off the game, though. You may enjoy casual EDH, but that is no reason to say that other players shouldn't enjoy it in their own way. Again, it's a playgroup problem. Some players are dicks and like to play against the casual players with their thousand-dollar decks, but that's a problem with that person, not the format.
    Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/
    EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.

    [EDH]
    BUG Combo/Control:
    BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
  • #603
    Quote from DrendDragonspawn
    If you aren't playing EDH casually, you aren't playing it right. My group recently made the decision to stop playing with one of the players, because he is a complete spike, and refuses to listen to us about playing competitively in a casual meta. Even when 4 of us go all out against him, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone but him to win.

    The competitive formats are PRECISELY what competitive players should be playing, but they won't. These are the same kind of players who will go choose out the little kid in the room and stomp him using some ridiculous deck using the power 9 just because the kid doesn't know any better. It isn't the game itself that gives them satisfaction. It is the winning and rubbing it in your face. These are the same people who will sit and bad mouth people they kill in fps games. It is usually best just to avoid them.


    This is extremely close minded. I play with a number of competitive players, including several who play primarily edh. Building a deck to be more competitive or playing to win the game doesn't mean you're going to stomp some little kid then laugh in his face, or sit and rub the groups nose into every loss, or that winning is the only way you get enjoyment out of the game.

    Players in my group are just as likely to groan when AoZ gets played for the umpteenth time, go for ridiculous plays, and laugh it off then move on to the next game when someone wins in spectacular fashion. We're also running decks that try and lock people out with Hokori, Dust Drinker, drop a threat then play Armageddon, or go from zero board state to lethal in a turn. We're currently all a little annoyed at someone who showed up running Azami, then refused to combo out because he thought other people would enjoy the game more if he didn't. My newest deck joins a deck fronted by Jasmine Boreal (who is regularly cast and used as a wincon), a deck with no non-etb creature answers, and a mono-R control deck in my stable of decks, and I just built Karador stax.

    Saying that the people I play with have less fun or a lesser understanding of the format because we don't play the same way that you do is entirely incorrect and a little insulting.
  • #604
    In our playgroup we are trying to find a balance between 'casual' and 'competetive'.
    Ofcourse everyone wants to win the game.
    But the question is: What are you willing to do, to win the game?

    For example: Our Kaalia-player.
    He is willing to throw in gigantic creatures to smash people in the face, he even loves to play tons of tutors to always get the answer he wants.
    But stuff like Armageddon is where he draws the line.
    He doesn't want to have a 'guaranteed win' on turn 4, stuff like that won't be fun for the group.
    It will give him more wins, but those wins aren't valuable unless you are playing for prices.
    Legacy:
    Mono-W Stax //
    Mono-R Goblins
    EDH:
    Azami, Kingmaker of Complicated Combo's and control.
    The Mimeoplasm, killing players with their own stuff since 2012!
    Gaka the Wary =D
  • #605
    I've noticed that some of the EDH players in my area can be almost as hostile as the "spikes" they rail against constantly. Granted, it feels like I maybe play ten EDH games a month on average, I tend to get worn down by the negative attitude of many EDH players.
    Quote from LandBoySteve
    The only thing I'm waiting to rotate is whiny Magic players who bitch about Magic cards.


    Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
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