Hi, I'm looking to build a Simic deck with Prime Speaker Zegana at the helm. Now, having never playing simic colors, or blue, to be specific, I wanted to get people's or other Zegana players advice as far as the best approach for a good build.
My first thought was a nice control build with counters, plenty of draw, and a variety of finishers, but realized that maybe it's not quite what I wanted to be doing in simic.
So my second thought was a ramp deck that tried to power out fatties and shroud/hexproof creatures and the likes. I'm leaning more towards this plan, but with the limited amount of knowledge I have with blue's card pool, I'm finding it difficult knowing how to build the deck.
So I would just like to ask everyone if they had any cool ideas or interactions that would help me with this deck. anything at all would be greatly appreciated. thank you
The best way I found is to abuse a bunch of ETB-Effect creatures, all while abusing Blue and Green's other strengths. Green ramps you up, Blue gives you some counterspells.
My personal Zegana build doesn't run a full suite of counterspells, but I do run Hinder and Spell Crumple to deal with troublesome commanders, Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk because I run Deadeye Navigator and Cloudstone Curio so why not (And the Whelk can give me a fattie for Zegana), and Mystic Genesis (Because fattie).
Aside from that, lots of ETB effects. Sphinx of Uthuun, Sylvan Primordial, Terastodon, Chancellor of the Spires, you name it. They don't all have to be fatties, just be sure you got at least 10 or so creatures with a power of 6 or higher.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Like LouCypher I'm running a small collection of counters, because ya know, blue. Pretty much each one he mentioned as well as Arcane Denial, the friendliest counter around lol. I like the Snake, Whelk, and Mystic Genesis as ways to counter & get a dude to draw off of. Even if Mystic Genesis can't be easily recurred & abused it's another counterdude & I like it quite a bit (plus the foil I got is sooo pretty).
I got cute and included Biovisionary as a possible wincon with all my cloning going on. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Alchemist's Refuge help you flash in the necessary cards at the right moment to combo off. Seedborn Muse synergizes here as well, as it also does with the counter package. Nothing like playing her & passing, then flashing in Teferi on the next end step, then flashing in a stream of dudes with constant counter backup.
I know she's tailor made for Dragon Wings, Cycle it when you first see it, then Zegana or any of your big guys always come in with flying. It's fantastic.
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Psychosis Crawler is an auto-include and a great wincon, Multani, Maro-Sorcerer can give you all the cards you need with one Zegana cast and has nice protection to wait until the next turn when she arrives.
I went in a different direction and instead focused on a "+1/+1 counters matters" theme, so lots of creatures with graft and evolve, and let me tell you it's a lot of fun to play. I've only gotten to try it out in 1v1 right now, but it tickles me in all the right places. I'm running a little control in the form of counters and bounce, but the deck is really about creating this machine of creatures that get, move, and remove +1/+1 counters to great effect.
thanks everyone. I think I like the idea of of trying to set up little engines with etb critters. so it will probably be a combination of that, some fatties here and there, and the good flash like massive Marc mentioned. nevertheless it's going to have a crap ton of creatures. will post list once I complete it.
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1. UG good stuff. Using value engines (mostly etb) like Deadeye Navigator, Diluvan Primordial, Mystic Snake, Sphinx of Uthuun etc. This is the most obvious and spikiest way to do it. I personally think it's really boring but if this is your first blue deck, and you want a strong one, this will do.
2. Counters matter. This almost feels like a simic theme deck, but is still decently strong at the same time. Zameck Guildmage, Master Biomancer , Fathom Mage with cards like Doubling Season and Gilder Bairn for support. I only listed a few recent cards. There are so many other good cards for this theme and it seems like it can be really fun.
3. Simic Beatdown. Play the most efficient fatty beaters in the colour. Simic Skyswallower, Terra Stomper, Vorapede, Inkwell Leviathan etc. Using fast spells like Sol Ring, Somberwald Sage, Sacellum Godspeaker to power them out. And cast Zegana for hand refill and another fatty. I just built this deck last night. Not sure how it plays but I'm really happy with it because it allows me to play all of those epic fatties that don't generate "value".
Zegana, as a commander, is very combo-friendly on the basis that she cantrips (the only other legendary creature that does this is Vendilion Clique, and not to Zegana's extent). A lot of UG combos involve, or have the potential of, blinking and/or bouncing creatures infinitely, and having Zegana in the command zone means she can come in whenever a combo comes online to draw you a lot, if not all, of the cards. The power of those creatures is irrelevant when Zegana can be cast as many times as needed, even the humble Cloud of Faeries.
If you have enough ways to re-use Zegana, even having an average power of 2 or 3 among the creatures in your deck can serve your needs nicely. (Since I already mentioned blink/bounce, it bears mentioning that Thragtusk is really good with Zegana, both for its innate 5/3 body and the 3/3 it leaves behind. Bonus points if Zegana gets tucked and you Birthing Pod a Thragtusk back into her. And then, if Pod is still around on your next turn, sacrifice Zegana to it to fetch Palinchron, untap seven lands, and potentially recast Zegana for even more draw power.)
For the most part, I'm happy with the way my deck works. The fact that I actually have a legitimate use for Palinchron outside of infinite mana comboing is nifty.
I can vouch for Psychosis Crawler. This is the best deck i've found for him. I cast prime speaker with crawler in play then bounced zegana to my hand with riptide lab and recast..I had copied the opponents reliquary tower with my thespian stage. Repeated next turn and then time spiral'd.
3. Simic Beatdown. Play the most efficient fatty beaters in the colour. Simic Skyswallower, Terra Stomper, Vorapede, Inkwell Leviathan etc. Using fast spells like Sol Ring, Somberwald Sage, Sacellum Godspeaker to power them out. And cast Zegana for hand refill and another fatty. I just built this deck last night. Not sure how it plays but I'm really happy with it because it allows me to play all of those epic fatties that don't generate "value".
this seems like a cool build. hope to get some feedback when you finally get around to playing it
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I'm loving the fatty beat down build so far. It's becoming one of my favourite decks of all. The deck being new might be part of the reason, but I think it's mostly because the deck lets me play with all of the awesome green fatties that I've been wanting to play ever since I started magic.
The deck requires a lot of ramp, and ideally will spend the first few turns of the game doing so. After that, nothing can really stop you from powering out those beasts turn after turn. It is quite powerful when it does that.
Here are a few problems that I've noticed with the deck. First of all, it is very light on answers. I don't run counterspells and it also lacks spot removals. I ditched those for all-in raw power. So the deck would almost fold to something like humility. However, that's just my build. And it shouldn't be hard to fix the problem to some extent.
Also, the deck relies heavily on ramp. Personally I'm not a fan of it, because there is no way you can beat those value ramp decks in the mid-late game when they have twice as many lands as you do. The only solutions I can think of are mass LD and infinite combos, both of which are considered to be unfun by most groups. This makes ramp one of the go-to strategies if you want to build a strong mid-range deck. However, as biased as I may be, Zegana is okay. Instead of ramping into seedborn muse, alchemist's refuge, mystic snake, and deadeye navigator, you're playing behemoths, leviathans, elementals and wurms. So that's a lot more interesting.
Overall the deck is doing quite well in my play group. It recovers really fast after board wipes and goes out of hand when the your opponents can't find a wipe in time.
Zegana, as a commander, is very combo-friendly on the basis that she cantrips [I](the only other legendary creature that does this is Vendilion Clique, and not to Zegana's extent)
Not actually cantripping. The point of cantripping is being self replacing, and clique replaces a different card, not themselves.
yah, I was thinking play some cheaper creatures early like maro, thrun, and even troll asthetic because of how prominent control is in my meta. the way i see it, even drawing four cards from a troll is powerful.
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Considering Vendilion Clique is a purely U card, you'll more than likely have something you don't immediately need that you can sift for something else. I'll concede that cantrip isn't the term I was looking for, but assuming you're using Vendilion the same way I mentioned using Zegana, the end result would be the same.
I just personally can't do fatties as a game plan. I always have the worst luck whenever I try it. That's why I made my Zegana deck the way I did, and I'm happy with how it runs. I don't always get to, or even need to, cast Zegana herself, but when I do she gets results in a big way.
so ive been spending a good amount of time brainstorming this deck which will probably consist of a good amount of utility creatures, lots of instant speed interaction (flash guys, bounce, removal, counters, draw) and some fat. this brings up another question:
what are the best ways for me to win? we have infinite combos banned in our meta.. so do i just rely on fatties to grind out the game after i draw tons of cards? or try to copy timewarps dozens of times?
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so ive been spending a good amount of time brainstorming this deck which will probably consist of a good amount of utility creatures, lots of instant speed interaction (flash guys, bounce, removal, counters, draw) and some fat. this brings up another question:
what are the best ways for me to win? we have infinite combos banned in our meta.. so do i just rely on fatties to grind out the game after i draw tons of cards? or try to copy timewarps dozens of times?
So blue green good stuff its looking like. I think we're quite fortunate here because blue green is actually one of the best colour combinations when we're looking for win conditions. Cards like Avenger of Zendikar , combined with Sylvan Primordial wins the game next turn (or this turn if you flash them in EOT) if unanswered. Also Overwhelming Stampede is a great card to use with the fatties.It might not happen too often, but cards like Ulamog and Kozilek can win games on their own, and they have great utility attached too. This is winning with raw power.
You can also win with soft locks/control by using specifically deadeye navigator paired with mystic snake or chancellor of the spires, and slowly beat your opponents down with one flyer or two while preventing them from doing anything. And if your playgroup is not against it, Time Warp is really really powerful especially when you have a lot of mana.
My first thought was a nice control build with counters, plenty of draw, and a variety of finishers, but realized that maybe it's not quite what I wanted to be doing in simic.
So my second thought was a ramp deck that tried to power out fatties and shroud/hexproof creatures and the likes. I'm leaning more towards this plan, but with the limited amount of knowledge I have with blue's card pool, I'm finding it difficult knowing how to build the deck.
So I would just like to ask everyone if they had any cool ideas or interactions that would help me with this deck. anything at all would be greatly appreciated. thank you
UPDATE - decklist completed:
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GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
My personal Zegana build doesn't run a full suite of counterspells, but I do run Hinder and Spell Crumple to deal with troublesome commanders, Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk because I run Deadeye Navigator and Cloudstone Curio so why not (And the Whelk can give me a fattie for Zegana), and Mystic Genesis (Because fattie).
Aside from that, lots of ETB effects. Sphinx of Uthuun, Sylvan Primordial, Terastodon, Chancellor of the Spires, you name it. They don't all have to be fatties, just be sure you got at least 10 or so creatures with a power of 6 or higher.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I also have a metric ton of Clone effects. Sakashima, the Imposter, Sakashima's Student, Phantasmal Image, Phyrexian Metamorph, Rite of Replication, Infinite Reflection, and maybe one or two more. As a U/G deck you'll have plenty of valuable clone targets and your opponents probably do as well. What's better than 1 Sylvan Primordial? A bunch! They also pull double duty as commander killers. Clones hardly ever sit in my hand in my meta, they always pull their weight.
I got cute and included Biovisionary as a possible wincon with all my cloning going on. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Alchemist's Refuge help you flash in the necessary cards at the right moment to combo off. Seedborn Muse synergizes here as well, as it also does with the counter package. Nothing like playing her & passing, then flashing in Teferi on the next end step, then flashing in a stream of dudes with constant counter backup.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Asceticism protect ur guys
Gyre Sage mo mana
Riptide Laboratory abuse gen
Forgotten Ancient big guy fast
Cavern of Souls protect ur gen
GU Experiment Kraj- all your abilities belong to us
WB Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts- battlecruiser
GUB The Mimeoplasm- when graveyards are not safe
RGW Mayael the Anima- i luv the fatties
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
1. UG good stuff. Using value engines (mostly etb) like Deadeye Navigator, Diluvan Primordial, Mystic Snake, Sphinx of Uthuun etc. This is the most obvious and spikiest way to do it. I personally think it's really boring but if this is your first blue deck, and you want a strong one, this will do.
2. Counters matter. This almost feels like a simic theme deck, but is still decently strong at the same time. Zameck Guildmage, Master Biomancer , Fathom Mage with cards like Doubling Season and Gilder Bairn for support. I only listed a few recent cards. There are so many other good cards for this theme and it seems like it can be really fun.
3. Simic Beatdown. Play the most efficient fatty beaters in the colour. Simic Skyswallower, Terra Stomper, Vorapede, Inkwell Leviathan etc. Using fast spells like Sol Ring, Somberwald Sage, Sacellum Godspeaker to power them out. And cast Zegana for hand refill and another fatty. I just built this deck last night. Not sure how it plays but I'm really happy with it because it allows me to play all of those epic fatties that don't generate "value".
If you have enough ways to re-use Zegana, even having an average power of 2 or 3 among the creatures in your deck can serve your needs nicely. (Since I already mentioned blink/bounce, it bears mentioning that Thragtusk is really good with Zegana, both for its innate 5/3 body and the 3/3 it leaves behind. Bonus points if Zegana gets tucked and you Birthing Pod a Thragtusk back into her. And then, if Pod is still around on your next turn, sacrifice Zegana to it to fetch Palinchron, untap seven lands, and potentially recast Zegana for even more draw power.)
For the most part, I'm happy with the way my deck works. The fact that I actually have a legitimate use for Palinchron outside of infinite mana comboing is nifty.
this seems like a cool build. hope to get some feedback when you finally get around to playing it
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
The deck requires a lot of ramp, and ideally will spend the first few turns of the game doing so. After that, nothing can really stop you from powering out those beasts turn after turn. It is quite powerful when it does that.
Here are a few problems that I've noticed with the deck. First of all, it is very light on answers. I don't run counterspells and it also lacks spot removals. I ditched those for all-in raw power. So the deck would almost fold to something like humility. However, that's just my build. And it shouldn't be hard to fix the problem to some extent.
Also, the deck relies heavily on ramp. Personally I'm not a fan of it, because there is no way you can beat those value ramp decks in the mid-late game when they have twice as many lands as you do. The only solutions I can think of are mass LD and infinite combos, both of which are considered to be unfun by most groups. This makes ramp one of the go-to strategies if you want to build a strong mid-range deck. However, as biased as I may be, Zegana is okay. Instead of ramping into seedborn muse, alchemist's refuge, mystic snake, and deadeye navigator, you're playing behemoths, leviathans, elementals and wurms. So that's a lot more interesting.
Overall the deck is doing quite well in my play group. It recovers really fast after board wipes and goes out of hand when the your opponents can't find a wipe in time.
I really like clone in Zenaga, because if you're willing to give up your Zenaga it draws you whatever her current power is plus one.
Also, Maro. Those are the fatties you really want.
Not actually cantripping. The point of cantripping is being self replacing, and clique replaces a different card, not themselves.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
I just personally can't do fatties as a game plan. I always have the worst luck whenever I try it. That's why I made my Zegana deck the way I did, and I'm happy with how it runs. I don't always get to, or even need to, cast Zegana herself, but when I do she gets results in a big way.
what are the best ways for me to win? we have infinite combos banned in our meta.. so do i just rely on fatties to grind out the game after i draw tons of cards? or try to copy timewarps dozens of times?
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
So blue green good stuff its looking like. I think we're quite fortunate here because blue green is actually one of the best colour combinations when we're looking for win conditions. Cards like Avenger of Zendikar , combined with Sylvan Primordial wins the game next turn (or this turn if you flash them in EOT) if unanswered. Also Overwhelming Stampede is a great card to use with the fatties.It might not happen too often, but cards like Ulamog and Kozilek can win games on their own, and they have great utility attached too. This is winning with raw power.
You can also win with soft locks/control by using specifically deadeye navigator paired with mystic snake or chancellor of the spires, and slowly beat your opponents down with one flyer or two while preventing them from doing anything. And if your playgroup is not against it, Time Warp is really really powerful especially when you have a lot of mana.
Thats all I can think of for now!
Conjurer's Closet, Venser's Journal, Eureka, and the obvious other ones listed here
Stuff I tried but didn't like: Proliferate, Urban Evolution, Biomass Mutation, Champion of Lambholt, Beastmaster Acension and the likes, Evolve only seemed okay; it didn't really pan out to be as powerful as I thought
hope this helps
:symb:Seizan, Perverter of Truth:symb:
:symu:Kami of the Crescent Moon:symu:
:symr:Tahngarth, Talruum Hero:symr:
:symu::symg:Prime Speaker Zegana:symu::symg:
:symu::symr:Melek, Izzet Paragon:symu::symr:
the idea being lots of howling mine effects; Maro-style creatures (maro, multani, maro sorcerer, overbeing of myth, etc)
also, considering wake thrasher + basalt monolith + lab maniac; make wake thrasher a 100/100, cast zegana, win!
Another idea was clones and biovisionary
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