I see a lot a decks that rely on commander dmg, inf combos, or 40 points of dmg as their main win con, what I'm asking is, are cards that say "if X happens, you win the game" viable in edh?
The word viable in EDH is iffy at best. It's such a meta dependant format that viability varies greatly. You could say Consecrated Sphinx is viable and I'd kinda chuckle because practically no one in my play group actually runs it. (For a few good reasons.)
You get even more variance because alt-wincon triggers are drastically different. Felidar Sovereign, for instance, can be amazing. But Elocuters doesn't do much since everyone can swing in on you and take all the counters off in a single turn. Hellkite Tyrant is playable on the impact of it's second ability. The wincon is mostly irrelevant gravy.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
They are viable. And yes I see people use them a lot. I win by using laboratory Maniac from time to time and mill myself into a victory. or I force my opponents to scoop by just cluster@#$%ing them with combos. But alas most wins are done by damage.
However thanks for letting me know Battle of wits is legal again. *Puts on his pants and heads to the store to build a standard deck*
Mono-Green ramp into Helix Pinnacle. Uninteractivity awaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THAT CARD!
I played a guy with a blue splash green and white deck. It focused on Helix. If we Exileded helix he scoped. Still it was interesting to see him get up to 50 or more tower counters.
Huh. Jiv you never struck me as someone who'd be bothered by uninteractivity. I've also never seen anyone actually pull off pinnacle.
A friend of mine had it in his Green kamahl ramp deck. And no, I don't have a problem with uninteractivity. I mostly just mock green players because I see them whine about it the most.
A friend of mine had it in his Green kamahl ramp deck. And no, I don't have a problem with uninteractivity. I mostly just mock green players because I see them whine about it the most.
I like Pinnacle. It isn't good, but it's fun.
Jiv, you need to stop being reasonable. It's getting harder to demonize you. I agree with you; Pinnacle, like most wincons that aren't based on life, aren't good but they are fun.
I don't have any issues with green players complaining about uninteractivity, but I suppose I don't really run into players complaining and I can only think of one player in our group that can be defined as a COLOR player.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Huh. Jiv you never struck me as someone who'd be bothered by uninteractivity. I've also never seen anyone actually pull off pinnacle.
I take it you have never played against Sasaya, Orochi Ascendent. Slow roll Sasaya, turn 7 play her, flip her, tap other lands for 28 mana and genwave for 25 hitting all the lands/making all the mana. Helix pinacle goes right to 100
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Oona, Queen of the Fae UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU GRBorborygmos EnragedRG GBGRhys the ExiledGBG URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
I take it you have never played against Sasaya, Orochi Ascendent. Slow roll Sasaya, turn 7 play her, flip her, tap other lands for 28 mana and genwave for 25 hitting all the lands/making all the mana. Helix pinacle goes right to 100
I have, but when that happens the ramp player has a nasty habit of catching the terminal disease commonly refered to as death.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
I love that Pinnacle is one of the few alternate wincons you actually have to work to beat.
It's just sitting there, mocking you with its shroud, until it's late-game and you've pulled your last tutor, and you have to either win the game your own way, kill the guy controlling it, or deal with it. It's more interactive than it lets on because it adds additional nodes to your decision tree with some actual weight behind them.
I see a lot a decks that rely on commander dmg, inf combos, or 40 points of dmg as their main win con, what I'm asking is, are cards that say "if X happens, you win the game" viable in edh?
I can Actually say that I have won a game with Azor's Elocutors. My Hanna Pillow Fort/Stax allowed me to drop a Peacekeeper and Static Orb with Azor's on the battlefield. Just waited out the 5 turns for the win.
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I see a lot a decks that rely on commander dmg, inf combos, or 40 points of dmg as their main win con, what I'm asking is, are cards that say "if X happens, you win the game" viable in edh?
As mentioned, it is meta dependent, but alternate wincons can be fun. I think the best bet is a pillowfort strategy, but I suspect stax might do well also. I run Darksteel Reactor, Azor's Elocutors, Test of Endurance, and Felidar Sovereign in my Angus list, and they tend to serve as "lightning round" of sorts. I'll plop one on the table, and we see who has the removal. Otherwise we shuffle up and start again.
It's almost off topic but there is a way to win with Battle of Wits in EDH. Activate Spawnsire of Ulamog and cast 100ish (physical) copies of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. That'll sufficiently pad your library. Sure, activating Spawnsire is always game over if the ability resolves... but Battle of Wits is sweet.
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
It's almost off topic but there is a way to win with Battle of Wits in EDH. Activate Spawnsire of Ulamog and cast 100ish (physical) copies of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. That'll sufficiently pad your library. Sure, activating Spawnsire is always game over if the ability resolves... but Battle of Wits is sweet.
My playgroup house rules allow a wish spell to grab any card from anywhere. I built a Battle of Wits combo deck that uses Echo Mage + Reality Spasm + Cunning Wish/Living Wish to put 300 copies of Joven's Ferrets or Silhoutte into my hand. EOT discard all 200-300 guys, then use Feldon's Cane or a similar effect. Pray that nobody kills Battle of Wits. 2% of the time it works 5% of the time.
Of all the alternates that I've seen this one seems the most impressive and challenging. How do you typically do it? Do you have a deck dedicated to winning with it? If so I'd be interested with a deck list.
Darksteel Reactor is one card that has tempted me to build around. I've always wanted to build a deck that utilized counters and proliferate and have this in there. Maybe esper colors, but that leaves out Doubling Season.
My playgroup house rules allow a wish spell to grab any card from anywhere. I built a Battle of Wits combo deck that uses Echo Mage + Reality Spasm + Cunning Wish/Living Wish to put 300 copies of Joven's Ferrets or Silhoutte into my hand. EOT discard all 200-300 guys, then use Feldon's Cane or a similar effect. Pray that nobody kills Battle of Wits. 2% of the time it works 5% of the time.
Of all the alternates that I've seen this one seems the most impressive and challenging. How do you typically do it? Do you have a deck dedicated to winning with it? If so I'd be interested with a deck list.
It's not that hard, really. Barren Glory, Oblivion Ring (exiling Barren Glory), Apocalypse. Ta-da!
Claws of Gix is another option if you've got lands that produce more than 1 mana, although that doesn't empty your hand. (But there are plenty of discard outlets out there, and you could use Solitary Confinement to protect yourself while setting up.)
Cards that come to mind, Azor's Elocutors, (obviously not in EDH, but for examples sake) Battle of wits, Hellkite Tyrant. would they be viable?
You get even more variance because alt-wincon triggers are drastically different. Felidar Sovereign, for instance, can be amazing. But Elocuters doesn't do much since everyone can swing in on you and take all the counters off in a single turn. Hellkite Tyrant is playable on the impact of it's second ability. The wincon is mostly irrelevant gravy.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
However thanks for letting me know Battle of wits is legal again. *Puts on his pants and heads to the store to build a standard deck*
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Huh. Jiv you never struck me as someone who'd be bothered by uninteractivity. I've also never seen anyone actually pull off pinnacle.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THAT CARD!
I played a guy with a blue splash green and white deck. It focused on Helix. If we Exileded helix he scoped. Still it was interesting to see him get up to 50 or more tower counters.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
A friend of mine had it in his Green kamahl ramp deck. And no, I don't have a problem with uninteractivity. I mostly just mock green players because I see them whine about it the most.
I like Pinnacle. It isn't good, but it's fun.
Jiv, you need to stop being reasonable. It's getting harder to demonize you. I agree with you; Pinnacle, like most wincons that aren't based on life, aren't good but they are fun.
I don't have any issues with green players complaining about uninteractivity, but I suppose I don't really run into players complaining and I can only think of one player in our group that can be defined as a COLOR player.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
I take it you have never played against Sasaya, Orochi Ascendent. Slow roll Sasaya, turn 7 play her, flip her, tap other lands for 28 mana and genwave for 25 hitting all the lands/making all the mana. Helix pinacle goes right to 100
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
Along with hit kitty counterpart.
I have, but when that happens the ramp player has a nasty habit of catching the terminal disease commonly refered to as death.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
It's just sitting there, mocking you with its shroud, until it's late-game and you've pulled your last tutor, and you have to either win the game your own way, kill the guy controlling it, or deal with it. It's more interactive than it lets on because it adds additional nodes to your decision tree with some actual weight behind them.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I can Actually say that I have won a game with Azor's Elocutors. My Hanna Pillow Fort/Stax allowed me to drop a Peacekeeper and Static Orb with Azor's on the battlefield. Just waited out the 5 turns for the win.
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
As mentioned, it is meta dependent, but alternate wincons can be fun. I think the best bet is a pillowfort strategy, but I suspect stax might do well also. I run Darksteel Reactor, Azor's Elocutors, Test of Endurance, and Felidar Sovereign in my Angus list, and they tend to serve as "lightning round" of sorts. I'll plop one on the table, and we see who has the removal. Otherwise we shuffle up and start again.
WGU - Jenara, Asura of War - Bant Counters
WUB - Sen Triplets - Blink Control
RWU - Ruhan of the Fomori - Combat Control
WB - Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts - Orzhov Knights
UB - Grimgrin, Corpse-Born - Tribal Combo
G - Yeva, Nature's Herald - Yo-Yo Champion
"Viable"
I feel like that word shoiuld be censored in this subforum.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Only if they censor "fun" and "Spirit of EDH" first.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
My playgroup house rules allow a wish spell to grab any card from anywhere. I built a Battle of Wits combo deck that uses Echo Mage + Reality Spasm + Cunning Wish/Living Wish to put 300 copies of Joven's Ferrets or Silhoutte into my hand. EOT discard all 200-300 guys, then use Feldon's Cane or a similar effect. Pray that nobody kills Battle of Wits. 2% of the time it works 5% of the time.
Of all the alternates that I've seen this one seems the most impressive and challenging. How do you typically do it? Do you have a deck dedicated to winning with it? If so I'd be interested with a deck list.
Darksteel Reactor is one card that has tempted me to build around. I've always wanted to build a deck that utilized counters and proliferate and have this in there. Maybe esper colors, but that leaves out Doubling Season.
Near-Death Experience is another one I've wanted to use but never have. I think it would work well in a BW deck that had lots of life drain effects like Necropotence, Unspeakable Symbol and especially Hatred.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
Real men win with Battle of Wits via Opalescence.
It's not that hard, really. Barren Glory, Oblivion Ring (exiling Barren Glory), Apocalypse. Ta-da!
Claws of Gix is another option if you've got lands that produce more than 1 mana, although that doesn't empty your hand. (But there are plenty of discard outlets out there, and you could use Solitary Confinement to protect yourself while setting up.)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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