ghost council #1 vs ghost coucil #2

  • #1
    With the new ghost council spoiled, I'm thinking that i will stick with the old council rather than the new one since its high unkillable, 1 extra life isn't going to affect the game that much and I almost always have a creature handy for saccing. Any thoughts on the new council and what ways its better than the old one for a commander?
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  • #2
    I like the art on the new one more. The new one is also much more powerful in Standard, but that's not a real format so meh. But being able to flicker the original Ghost Council at will seems a bit more useful in EDH and other formats IMO.
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  • #3
    it's better in near or completely creatureless decks, stuff like stax might use it.
  • #4
    The first one is so much better that it's almost a joke comparing the two.

    As xbinox said, the second may have some appeal in certain niche decks, but the first one's just so much harder to deal with; it's a self-protecting kill condition and a sac outlet in one, while the second's a beater with a drain life ability.
  • #5
    I like Ozbedat a lot more than the first one for a few reasons:

    1) It's the first WB legend who doesn't completely blow (*cough* Selenia *cough*) and doesn't involve creature sacrifice. This means it can be played in a deck that doesn't spam out sac fodder.
    2) Stealing one life is more or less irrelevant. Stealing two life starts to get to the point of relevance
    3) He's guaranteed to be missed by all sorcery speed removal ever. A lot of decks depend on Wrath effects to let them survive creatures.
    4) 5 power is a lot better than 4 power for a general. 4 power requires +3 to get into 3-swing range, and requires 6 swings unbuffed. 5 power only requires +2 to get into 3-swing range (which is what any of the Sword of X and Y provide), and kills in 5 unbuffed.
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  • #6
    While I am overjoyed that the Orzhov finally received a legend that doesn't say "sacrifice" or "Selenia" on it, I still feel like it's meh at best.

    Why is Orzhov the color combo that blinks naturally? I would think Azorius would have been a more natural guild to do that in.

    Are there even any monoblack blink cards?

    Color me a little disappointed, as I really like the Extort mechanic, but was hoping WOTC took note of the crap selection of BW Legends and would have made the Orzhov Legend the powerhouse of the set.

    A missed oppurtunity IMO, but it isn't a bad card, just not overly exciting. Frown
  • #7
    Teysa > council
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  • #8
    Quote from Schondetta
    Teysa > council


    Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    As for the topic, I think it depends on how you play/build the deck. I like the idea of being able to respond at instant speed with GC#1, but I don't like having to pump out sac fodder. Graveyard hate is very important and relevant in my meta and WILL happen if youre using GY effects often. (Bloodghast and the likes for fodder. It's rare when he sticks around)

    Quote from Bootsiuv

    Color me a little disappointed, as I really like the Extort mechanic, but was hoping WOTC took note of the crap selection of BW Legends and would have made the Orzhov Legend the powerhouse of the set.

    A missed oppurtunity IMO, but it isn't a bad card, just not overly exciting. Frown


    This sums things up well. I was hoping for something a little better. Something that asked for a new deck style, not the same general with nearly the same abilities.
    Last edited by Tremulant: 1/1/2013 8:07:07 PM
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  • #9
    I'm definitely going to be sticking with the original, personally. The abjlity to blink him at will is what makes him so threatening, esecially since every color has a way to kill a creature at instant speed. Obzedat isn't bad, and I actually wouldn't mind picking jp a copy to put in the 99 of my GCO deck, but I really don't think I'll be swapping them.
  • #10
    I'm very disappointed with the new one - it doesn't seem good or exciting at all !
  • #11
    New council has far superior art and hits slightly harder. All the reason I need to prefer it.
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  • #12
    Quote from Bootsiuv
    While I am overjoyed that the Orzhov finally received a legend that doesn't say "sacrifice" or "Selenia" on it, I still feel like it's meh at best.

    Why is Orzhov the color combo that blinks naturally? I would think Azorius would have been a more natural guild to do that in.

    Are there even any monoblack blink cards?

    Color me a little disappointed, as I really like the Extort mechanic, but was hoping WOTC took note of the crap selection of BW Legends and would have made the Orzhov Legend the powerhouse of the set.

    A missed oppurtunity IMO, but it isn't a bad card, just not overly exciting. Frown


    good point about blink, but I'd have to disagree about BW's selection. Compared to RW they've got awesome options.
  • #13
    Quote from DirkGently
    good point about blink, but I'd have to disagree about BW's selection. Compared to RW they've got awesome options.


    Fair enough. I'm just not a Boros guy. Don't even think I own a RW Legend to be honest, so you may be right there.

    I still think they all feel the same. Hell, even Selenia has built in bounce, which was basically built in blink (or at least it filled the same niche before blink and flicker existed).

    What's the rationale from a design standpoint to have Orzhov as the blink guild? I don't really understand it.

    Regardless, It's fine, I accept it, but can we have something new?

    Something Different?

    Really, enough of the blinking already....it's just old at this point. For the record, Deadeye Navigator didn't exactly help the "burnt out on blink decks" feeling either. Slant
    Last edited by Bootsiuv: 1/1/2013 9:54:09 PM
  • #14
    On one hand I'm kinda sad that you can't use his ability at instant speed, but on the other It doesn't require creature sacrifice. Overall bigger creature, more damage when he ETBs, and he is still decently hard to kill. Maybe if damage still went on the stack things would be different, but for now my vote goes to new council.
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  • #15
    Quote from DirkGently
    good point about blink, but I'd have to disagree about BW's selection. Compared to RW they've got awesome options.


    Are you kidding? RW has Gisela, Jor, Aurelia, and even Brion. BW has the Ghost Councils and Teysa, and the Ghost Councils are extremely meh, especially now that damage has left the stack.

    Getting back on topic, while new Council doesn't require creatures, I feel that old Council was much better. Especially when damage stacked, but even without it, new GCO dies to so much removal, and using its ability means that you take away any ability to block with him. Giving him "each opponent" would have made him better, but would still not have made up for a complete lack of originality, as well as making you lose your general for each of your opponents' turns. Additionally, old GCO could function as a sac outlet, this one can't.

    Tl;dr - old Council was better, and new one is unoriginal and unappealing.

    I'm really disappointed - I was SO looking forward to building BW, but I guess I'm building UB now, because at least Lazav looks interesting.

    New GCO is a back breaker in 60-card Magic, but has no place here.
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  • #16
    They really should have made new Ghost council differ more from the old one. The WB options just aren't that great yet and more variety would have been nice.
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  • #17
    Quote from Slivortal
    Are you kidding? RW has Gisela, Jor, Aurelia, and even Brion. BW has the Ghost Councils and Teysa, and the Ghost Councils are extremely meh, especially now that damage has left the stack.


    You forgot selenia.

    all of RW's legends cost 5+ except one, and they're all really (imo) boring, mostly built around attacking a lot. BW has synergistic, cheap generals that work well with the mechanics BW does already (tokens, reanimation), just how I like 'em.
  • #18
    I think it comes down to what you want to do with it. With the old one, you were building around the sacrifice mechanic. While with ghost council 2.0, you get a black/white general that doesn't revolve around sacrificing little guys, is still a threat (if not more threatening), and keeps the feel of original card (blinking and extorting).

    Overall, an awesome card and an awesome general. I would build it if I were looking to build a black/white deck that isn't just about saccing creatures for value.

    P.S. : Oh, and this one actually makes you want to attack with him, instead of just sitting in the background with a couple mana open.
  • #19
    old school council has crazy tricks with sac outlets and have twice as many come into effects then new council.

    also, old school can actually protect itself from death, while new council can still die to instant speed spells



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  • #20
    I really want to like the new council. But finding it a little hard. But like others have said at least he's not about sacrificing.
    Could he work in 1v1 deck?
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  • #21
    I like this new GCO. It's similar but plays really different. With the old GCO decks, you don't need to play as much exile effects or flickers, while favoring either token generation or saccing key creatures that likes to die. Don't like that plan all that much, takes too long. This new GCO is more flickering and bouncing based. Creature light decks, using that angel whose names I forget, flickerform, etc to gain that life over and over. Will it work well? Dunno, need the rest of the set to see what are my new toys gonna be.

    Liking the idea so far, since it's a bit more aggressive. Legends that are just toolbox doesn't cut it for me, and this one depends on its own body to do work.
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  • #22
    I feel like anyone who likes the new GCO more than the old GCO never really understood the strengths of GCO to begin with. It was never really about the life drain or the 4/4 body. new GCO got better at the parts that never mattered and lost what was good.

    Quote from Wildfire393
    I like Ozbedat a lot more than the first one for a few reasons:

    1) It's the first WB legend who doesn't completely blow (*cough* Selenia *cough*) and doesn't involve creature sacrifice. This means it can be played in a deck that doesn't spam out sac fodder.
    2) Stealing one life is more or less irrelevant. Stealing two life starts to get to the point of relevance
    3) He's guaranteed to be missed by all sorcery speed removal ever. A lot of decks depend on Wrath effects to let them survive creatures.
    4) 5 power is a lot better than 4 power for a general. 4 power requires +3 to get into 3-swing range, and requires 6 swings unbuffed. 5 power only requires +2 to get into 3-swing range (which is what any of the Sword of X and Y provide), and kills in 5 unbuffed.


    1 - creature sacrifice, graveyard triggers, etc is something BW is good at. That's why its generals synergize with that. New one really doesn't have synergy with much of anything.
    2 - stealing life was never the good part about GCO. If you were using him for the life drain you were doing it wrong. Plus old one could do it on multiple turns, so he could definitely drain more life than new one if desired.
    3 - those decks are bad. And he dies to (almost) any instant-speed removal, which GCO was much harder to kill with. Wipes were almost always irrelevant against GCO (besides killing his minions) and he's also protected from YOUR OWN WIPES. new GCO will always be killed by your own wipes, barring another card protecting him. Plus if you want him protected, you definitely can't block with him. New GCO is WAAAAAY more killable than the OG. don't kid yourself.
    4 - Sure, but both of them are crappy voltron generals so it's sort of irrelevant. They don't have evasion and, at least for the new guy, they don't have much protection either. If you want a voltron general there's way better options in other colors.
  • #23
    Yeah, I was trying to come up with a deck idea that would fit the new one better than the old one. I started working on lifegain.dec with a win off Felidar Sovereign or combo win off Exquisite Blood and Sanguine Bond, a bit of Soul Warden action.

    The one benefit of the new one is you don't have to include any sac effects for the general to work. The problem is, that's one of the best features of the old one. And as mentioned, his ability gives you instant protection against removal of most kinds. As I looked at my decklist I realized it'd still be better with the original.

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  • #24
    I was pretty excited about the new Ghost Council, but this guy was such a disappointment. I doubted it would be good enough to replace the old GCO, but I didn't think it would be underpowered to the point where it is unlikely to even make the cut as one of the 99.

    The loss of any kind of control over his flicker ability in exchange for an additional point of life drain just sucks. The only way you are killing someone with that ability is with an infinite combo, and which point the difference between two and one becomes zero.

    The additional point of power is almost completely irrelevant, the Ghost Council should not be relying on beats to win (not very flavourful either), you will find that it will almost certainly be outclassed, especially by turn five.

    It now dies to it's own wraths, and instant speed removal. Not great.

    No longer a sacrifice outlet, which was one of the best things about the original GCO.

    On the plus side, the art is cool, he will be a bomb in limited, and might find a place in standard, in which case I can trade him for some useful EDH cards.
  • #25
    new one is boring. he interacts poorly with you other cards
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