I play online for the most part, and for me, it's been a mixed bag. There are players who will rage at the smallest, targeted land destruction, and some who will happily watch you set up Avageddon before politely conceding. What I truly wish is for WotC to print more cards that punish ramp, but leave other players relatively intact. Because with ramp becoming as popular a stategy as it is, Mass LD is needed to counter it.
All the complaining about mass LD really boggles my mind. Wizards printed the cards. They're as legitimate a part of the game as any other card. It's nice when people play it responsibly. Life goes on when they don't. /story
I'm slowly introducing it into my decks, I used to not want to play with combo but got over it, didn't want to play against mld, getting over it, I don't want to limit strategies anymore because I'm ill prepared I want to learn how to build decks to handle them so I will be a better player.
Oh I stopped what is deemed socially acceptable. If I am playing red, land destruction going to be there since that's what red does best. Devastation for the win! I don't even own a Crucible of Worlds.
Peronsally, I'm not a big fan of mass land destruction, but targeted land destruction I am doing more of myself because in my playgroup, nonbasic lands like Miren or Volrath's Stronghold are starting to become more and more troublesome to leave alone, so I've started incorporating some targeted land removal/control (by control, I mean effects like Spreading Seas or Contaminated Ground).
If someone wants to play a mass land destruction spell, it's a valid spell to play and probably timed to end the game soon so we can start a fresh game because I hate feeling like a sitting duck.
Mass land destruction isn't the only way to punish ramp decks. I would personally like to see more effects like Restore Balance or Tunnel Ignus where decks can ramp all they want but will be punished for it in the end. (Or at least that's the hope.) (Acidic Soil is also a very effective card late-game to punish the ramp decks.)
Peronsally, I'm not a big fan of mass land destruction, but targeted land destruction I am doing more of myself because in my playgroup, nonbasic lands like Miren or Volrath's Stronghold are starting to become more and more troublesome to leave alone, so I've started incorporating some targeted land removal/control (by control, I mean effects like Spreading Seas or Contaminated Ground).
If someone wants to play a mass land destruction spell, it's a valid spell to play and probably timed to end the game soon so we can start a fresh game because I hate feeling like a sitting duck.
Mass land destruction isn't the only way to punish ramp decks. I would personally like to see more effects like Restore Balance or Tunnel Ignus where decks can ramp all they want but will be punished for it in the end. (Or at least that's the hope.) (Acidic Soil is also a very effective card late-game to punish the ramp decks.)
I feel like Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and whatever that other land from ZEN was would be the only things I would feel comfortable running in terms of targeted LD, and then only with Crucible of Worlds. Otherwise, I just can't see dedicating slots to targeted LD.
I'm the opposite. I would rather play mass ld because you don't attract AS MUCH hate. Everybody is in tge same situation rather than hating on one player.
I say, play whatever you want, as long as the game doesn't becomes unfun.
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I'm the opposite. I would rather play mass ld because you don't attract AS MUCH hate. Everybody is in tge same situation rather than hating on one player.
I say, play whatever you want, as long as the game doesn't becomes unfun.
The problem with "unfun" is that it's the most subjective thing ever. Dropping mass LD turn after turn with no real goal besides being a huge d-bag might be the most fun thing in the world to me (in reality, it might :p). I bet it's not for most everybody else at the table, though.
I feel like Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and whatever that other land from ZEN was would be the only things I would feel comfortable running in terms of targeted LD, and then only with Crucible of Worlds. Otherwise, I just can't see dedicating slots to targeted LD.
i tend to run things like pillage for my targeted ld. the utility it offers makes it worth it in my opinion.
I play online for the most part, and for me, it's been a mixed bag. There are players who will rage at the smallest, targeted land destruction, and some who will happily watch you set up Avageddon before politely conceding. What I truly wish is for WotC to print more cards that punish ramp, but leave other players relatively intact. Because with ramp becoming as popular a stategy as it is, Mass LD is needed to counter it.
You just gotta forget about these people. I hit a land with Woodfall Primus after an Akroma's Vengeance and someone cried... there was nothing else to choose! If someone else casts Explosive Vegetation and I cast Worn Powerstone why is my rock a valid destruction target but his two lands aren't?
I used to hate land destruction too... but the longer I play the more I like it. I think most people want to play in their own little bubble till they combo out but this is a multiplayer game, not solitaire.
I feel like Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and whatever that other land from ZEN was would be the only things I would feel comfortable running in terms of targeted LD, and then only with Crucible of Worlds. Otherwise, I just can't see dedicating slots to targeted LD.
I agree. I do play Fissure in mono big red. Pinpoint LD should also do something else.
Is it me or does this topic come up every other day?
I agree. I do play Fissure in mono big red. Pinpoint LD should also do something else.
Is it me or does this topic come up every other day?
Yeah, that's what boggles my mind about it, too. Not that this is a complaint against the OP, but just something that perplexes me about the EDH community. So someone blew up your lands. Play Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam. Play ramp. Play counterspells. I don't know, just do anything besides sit around and cry about it all day.
Yeah, that's what boggles my mind about it, too. Not that this is a complaint against the OP, but just something that perplexes me about the EDH community. So someone blew up your lands. Play Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam. Play ramp. Play counterspells. I don't know, just do anything besides sit around and cry about it all day.
Again agreed. I find that to many players are centered around thier own thing (beit ramp, combo win, tokens, etc.), and forget that they are playing a mutiplayer game with strategies of their own... Sure it sucks when you set up your ramp so you can T&N on turn 4, but the same can be said for enchantment or artefact strategies that get hosed, or tokens and a player drops Norn. I think that collateral dammage happens all the time, and that's what makes EDH such a great format. You never know when it"s time to pull the trigger, cuz maybe, just maybe someone has a bigger gun...
Again agreed. I find that to many players are centered around thier own thing (beit ramp, combo win, tokens, etc.), and forget that they are playing a mutiplayer game with strategies of their own... Sure it sucks when you set up your ramp so you can T&N on turn 4, but the same can be said for enchantment or artefact strategies that get hosed, or tokens and a player drops Norn. I think that collateral dammage happens all the time, and that's what makes EDH such a great format. You never know when it"s time to pull the trigger, cuz maybe, just maybe someone has a bigger gun...
Well, and to that point, one of the most fun things about deckbuilding, imho, is finding the appropriate balance between things that advance your strategy, and things that hose your opponents' strategies and/or help you recover from hate. Mass LD, and attempting to recover from it, makes for really dynamic games, in my experience.
Well, and to that point, one of the most fun things about deckbuilding, imho, is finding the appropriate balance between things that advance your strategy, and things that hose your opponents' strategies and/or help you recover from hate. Mass LD, and attempting to recover from it, makes for really dynamic games, in my experience.
Yeah. If your deck is so centric you forget the other players, you will be burned. But if you build plan B, C and D, then these kinds of plays (MLD, STAX, etc.) just make the experience that much better. I think it is a matter of experience (without any condecending intended). It is hard to jump from a 1 on 1 limited card pool environment, and hit EDH. In standard their is no land d, it,s a race for resources. In EDH it's a marathon to the finish. There is a big difference.
Yeah. If your deck is so centric you forget the other players, you will be burned. But if you build plan B, C and D, then these kinds of plays (MLD, STAX, etc.) just make the experience that much better. I think it is a matter of experience (without any condecending intended). It is hard to jump from a 1 on 1 limited card pool environment, and hit EDH. In standard their is no land d, it,s a race for resources. In EDH it's a marathon to the finish. There is a big difference.
I never thought of the transition from being, say, a Standard player to playing EDH. Particularly if you come from the Standards of recent years, mass LD just isn't something that is part of your game experience. Perhaps Legacy players are a little more used to facing stax/LD strategies in a competitive environment, but I can't speak to how prevalent they actually are, although they certainly exist. I guess I take for granted that 95% of my MTG experience has been EDH, and thus all of this has always just been part of the game for me.
You just gotta forget about these people. I hit a land with Woodfall Primus after an Akroma's Vengeance and someone cried... there was nothing else to choose! If someone else casts Explosive Vegetation and I cast Worn Powerstone why is my rock a valid destruction target but his two lands aren't?
I used to hate land destruction too... but the longer I play the more I like it. I think most people want to play in their own little bubble till they combo out but this is a multiplayer game, not solitaire.
Oh, don't worry, I do ignore them. I just tend to do everyone the courtesy of only playing it if I'm reasonably certain if will win me the game.
Mass LD is avoided in my playgroup for a very simple reason: the games take long enough as it is, blowing up all the land usually slows things down immensely. Once in a while someone casts Balance or something similar and we just sigh and Deal With It.
I agree with what seems to be the general consensus. People don't play it because it draws attention--it sets everybody behind and everyone who didn't play the spell sees it as unnecessary. But, to me, it's a completely viable strategy.
Your opponents decks need lands to run so taking them away seems good in my book.
You just gotta forget about these people. I hit a land with Woodfall Primus after an Akroma's Vengeance and someone cried... there was nothing else to choose! If someone else casts Explosive Vegetation and I cast Worn Powerstone why is my rock a valid destruction target but his two lands aren't?
I used to hate land destruction too... but the longer I play the more I like it. I think most people want to play in their own little bubble till they combo out but this is a multiplayer game, not solitaire.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Most people understand that everything is fair game but at the same time feel like their lands should be indestructible. When the Memnarch deck plays 17 artifacts and gets slammed by shatterstorm people understand that he overextended and that shatterstorm was totally acceptable. When Ezuri has 14 elves out and the ability to triple Overrun on turn 5 only to get slammed by a Damnation it's the same thing. But when Azusa who has 15 lands on turn 5 gets hit by an Armageddon everyone cries how "unfun" it is or how mass LD is against the spirit of edh. Lands are just like everything else, if you crap all of yours onto the table you have no right to cry when they're all swept away.
Well, and to that point, one of the most fun things about deckbuilding, imho, is finding the appropriate balance between things that advance your strategy, and things that hose your opponents' strategies and/or help you recover from hate. Mass LD, and attempting to recover from it, makes for really dynamic games, in my experience.
This is what I like about mld can be both of those. I run a hefty compliment of land wipes in both Sigarda and Kaalia and 9/10 when one of them drops that is just game. It's extremely effective in decks that want to win with the attack phase.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I'm the first in my main group to dabble in land destruction, first selectively with strip mine (took a while to stop getting hated for killing off someone's coffers) in Grimgrin and now outright with mass destruction such as obliterate, decree, and the like in my mono red deck.
The former is just straight necessary, once groups get over having a land blow up during a game they realize how necessary it can be when they see the black player struggling a bit more without coffers. The latter is usually a means to an end, and even then I mostly only use it in 1v1 when I am actually trying to win, as my deck in multiplayer is meant to mess up the game, not win.
What's it like in yours? Is it commonly played or is it something people avoid?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
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If someone wants to play a mass land destruction spell, it's a valid spell to play and probably timed to end the game soon so we can start a fresh game because I hate feeling like a sitting duck.
Mass land destruction isn't the only way to punish ramp decks. I would personally like to see more effects like Restore Balance or Tunnel Ignus where decks can ramp all they want but will be punished for it in the end. (Or at least that's the hope.) (Acidic Soil is also a very effective card late-game to punish the ramp decks.)
I feel like Strip Mine, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and whatever that other land from ZEN was would be the only things I would feel comfortable running in terms of targeted LD, and then only with Crucible of Worlds. Otherwise, I just can't see dedicating slots to targeted LD.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I say, play whatever you want, as long as the game doesn't becomes unfun.
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
The problem with "unfun" is that it's the most subjective thing ever. Dropping mass LD turn after turn with no real goal besides being a huge d-bag might be the most fun thing in the world to me (in reality, it might :p). I bet it's not for most everybody else at the table, though.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
i tend to run things like pillage for my targeted ld. the utility it offers makes it worth it in my opinion.
I could get on board with that. It's kinda the equivalent of Mortify and Putrefy :).
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
You just gotta forget about these people. I hit a land with Woodfall Primus after an Akroma's Vengeance and someone cried... there was nothing else to choose! If someone else casts Explosive Vegetation and I cast Worn Powerstone why is my rock a valid destruction target but his two lands aren't?
I used to hate land destruction too... but the longer I play the more I like it. I think most people want to play in their own little bubble till they combo out but this is a multiplayer game, not solitaire.
I agree. I do play Fissure in mono big red. Pinpoint LD should also do something else.
Is it me or does this topic come up every other day?
Yeah, that's what boggles my mind about it, too. Not that this is a complaint against the OP, but just something that perplexes me about the EDH community. So someone blew up your lands. Play Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam. Play ramp. Play counterspells. I don't know, just do anything besides sit around and cry about it all day.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Again agreed. I find that to many players are centered around thier own thing (beit ramp, combo win, tokens, etc.), and forget that they are playing a mutiplayer game with strategies of their own... Sure it sucks when you set up your ramp so you can T&N on turn 4, but the same can be said for enchantment or artefact strategies that get hosed, or tokens and a player drops Norn. I think that collateral dammage happens all the time, and that's what makes EDH such a great format. You never know when it"s time to pull the trigger, cuz maybe, just maybe someone has a bigger gun...
Well, and to that point, one of the most fun things about deckbuilding, imho, is finding the appropriate balance between things that advance your strategy, and things that hose your opponents' strategies and/or help you recover from hate. Mass LD, and attempting to recover from it, makes for really dynamic games, in my experience.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Yeah. If your deck is so centric you forget the other players, you will be burned. But if you build plan B, C and D, then these kinds of plays (MLD, STAX, etc.) just make the experience that much better. I think it is a matter of experience (without any condecending intended). It is hard to jump from a 1 on 1 limited card pool environment, and hit EDH. In standard their is no land d, it,s a race for resources. In EDH it's a marathon to the finish. There is a big difference.
I never thought of the transition from being, say, a Standard player to playing EDH. Particularly if you come from the Standards of recent years, mass LD just isn't something that is part of your game experience. Perhaps Legacy players are a little more used to facing stax/LD strategies in a competitive environment, but I can't speak to how prevalent they actually are, although they certainly exist. I guess I take for granted that 95% of my MTG experience has been EDH, and thus all of this has always just been part of the game for me.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Oh, don't worry, I do ignore them. I just tend to do everyone the courtesy of only playing it if I'm reasonably certain if will win me the game.
Your opponents decks need lands to run so taking them away seems good in my book.
They say there are other formats, but...
:symw::symu::symw::symu::symw:Bruna Enchantments
:symg::symw::symu::symw::symg:Rafiq's Vomitous Ramp
:symr::symr::symr::symr::symr:Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Fabulous
:symb::symu::symb::symu::symb:Circu, Decoy
:symg::symb::symg::symb::symg:Non-Blue Counters--Skullbriar EDH
:symu::symr::symu::symr::symu:Guildmage Pauper Commander--Izzet
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Changeling Tribal... Loading
I couldn't have said it better myself. Most people understand that everything is fair game but at the same time feel like their lands should be indestructible. When the Memnarch deck plays 17 artifacts and gets slammed by shatterstorm people understand that he overextended and that shatterstorm was totally acceptable. When Ezuri has 14 elves out and the ability to triple Overrun on turn 5 only to get slammed by a Damnation it's the same thing. But when Azusa who has 15 lands on turn 5 gets hit by an Armageddon everyone cries how "unfun" it is or how mass LD is against the spirit of edh. Lands are just like everything else, if you crap all of yours onto the table you have no right to cry when they're all swept away.
This is what I like about mld can be both of those. I run a hefty compliment of land wipes in both Sigarda and Kaalia and 9/10 when one of them drops that is just game. It's extremely effective in decks that want to win with the attack phase.
The former is just straight necessary, once groups get over having a land blow up during a game they realize how necessary it can be when they see the black player struggling a bit more without coffers. The latter is usually a means to an end, and even then I mostly only use it in 1v1 when I am actually trying to win, as my deck in multiplayer is meant to mess up the game, not win.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
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UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
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