I've been thinking about the applications of Mox Diamond in a competitive EDH deck. Is the inclusion of the card only beneficial if you have, say, a certian number of lands (I'm running about 35, but one of them is Maze of Ith), or does it depend on what you want to be dropping T1, T2, or if it's even any good as a topdeck? In theory it could give me some explosive starts by dropping 2 or 3 drops turn 1. So far I haven't actually seen it come up too much in testing. I was just curious as to what your opinions on the use of the card were.
It's a great card, but can be a really unwelcome sight in the late game. Still, I think having it in your deck can only be a good thing given the kinds of explosive starts it enables you to get.
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2UURRniv mizzet, the firemind endless fiery mind wheels of death 3WRjor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever 3RRzirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers 4:SymRG::SymRG:wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable 2WUkangee, aerie keeper birds 1UBRjeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
It's pretty good in Azusa, since it's yet another way to get her down on turn 2 (or 1 when combined with Sol Ring or Ancient Tomb), and the deck runs Loam and Crucible to recur discarded lands anyways, plus like 52 lands to pitch to it.
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I've been thinking about the applications of Mox Diamond in a competitive EDH deck. Is the inclusion of the card only beneficial if you have, say, a certian number of lands (I'm running about 35, but one of them is Maze of Ith), or does it depend on what you want to be dropping T1, T2, or if it's even any good as a topdeck? In theory it could give me some explosive starts by dropping 2 or 3 drops turn 1. So far I haven't actually seen it come up too much in testing. I was just curious as to what your opinions on the use of the card were.
When going all out combo it is good, as pitching a land doesn't matter if you only need a few to get to combo mana. I ran it in my combo version of Mimeoplasm and it allowed fast wins (along with Chrome Mox, Sol Ring, etc.). It is also good in decks like Skullbriar, the Walking Grave, where getting your general out a turn earlier is very important. A turn 1 Skullbriar will basically always get his first +1/+1 counter, a turn 2 Skullbriar might not. It is also pretty good if you are running cards like Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds, as they basically negate the card disadvantage.
Having played it in three different competitive decks, I found it generally not as good as Chrome Mox, but still very good since coming out fast is a big determiner in competitive EDH. And yes, I would play it in a deck w/ 35 lands. That is enough to make it effective.
Having played it in three different competitive decks, I found it generally not as good as Chrome Mox, but still very good since coming out fast is a big determiner in competitive EDH. And yes, I would play it in a deck w/ 35 lands. That is enough to make it effective.
Why is that? I always found Chrome Mox to be worse because it took action out of my hand and could usually only tap for 1 color of mana. Not to mention the fact that you can get the land back, but not the Chrome Mox's imprinted card.
Why is that? I always found Chrome Mox to be worse because it took action out of my hand and could usually only tap for 1 color of mana. Not to mention the fact that you can get the land back, but not the Chrome Mox's imprinted card.
The Chrome Mox is better most of the time unless you have at least 4 lands in your opening hand in addition to the mox because otherwise the mox isn't going to be getting you into big plays any sooner. For some examples: in my Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck, a Mox Diamond will let me drop one or two cheap wizards faster, but eating a land drop means she is probably not coming out any faster; in Radha, Heir to Keld, the diamond helps her come down on one, but so often leaves you without a relevant 3rd turn land drop.
Like I said, both moxes are good and definitely worth playing in most 1v1 decks, but the fact that really explosive plays usually require some land drops in addition to the mox are why the chrome is usually better in the opening hand. You can usually choose a card that's going to be less useful against your opponent to imprint easier than you can lose one of your opening lands.
I'm running a copy in my Loam-abuse deck, and love it there.
The only other deck I've considered it in is my mono-white deck. That deck takes advantage of Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer pretty well, so the effect of having a "land" that didn't count against my actual count is pretty beneficial.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
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Hmm, interesting opinions on the card. Though, I find it very interesting to be compared to Chrome Mox; I personally would never run Chrome Mox soley because my deck can not afford to take that sort of tempo out of my hand. Lands, however, I am far less worried about because my deck can (not always very well, but can) operate on only 2 or 3 land. (The deck is Sigarda, Host of Herons, btw). Most of the applications I was looking forward to were dropping something like a Birds and an Avacyn's Pilgrim turn 1, or some of the 2-drop ramp spells turn 1. Just a thought; thanks for the feedback, everybody!
Also, Mox Diamond enables a God Hand with Sigarda to play her on turn 1: Mox Diamond[/CARDS], Selesnya signet, Ancient Tomb, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt and some other land get it done. (oh god 6 card combos)
In the past I was one to knock this card as being meh.....but not anymore. It's just so incredibly good. Buffers against things like blood moon, back to basics, and land hate. I'll probably run it in every deck as it goes along with my play style quite nicely.
It's nice that the land is actually pitched rather than exiled. I'll leave it up to newcomer Johnnies to think about that interaction.
I like it in fast decks. For example, I played it in Zur, and I am testing it now in Worldgorger combo Scion. It's really good at speeding up a start. I like to run at least 38 lands in a deck with it. Ditching the last land in my hand early game to play the Diamond or just letting the Diamond sit there in my hand are terrible choices with no good outcome. I want one land in play and two in my hand if I am going to cast it turn 1 (with some exceptions).
Right now, I am considering whether it beats Chrome Mox. It's a hard decision to make, but I think right now the land loss will be felt less. Time will tell.
Why is that? I always found Chrome Mox to be worse because it took action out of my hand and could usually only tap for 1 color of mana. Not to mention the fact that you can get the land back, but not the Chrome Mox's imprinted card.
Actually, I think you isolated the reason Chrome Mox is considered better than Mox Diamond. It can "take action out," so its potential is that exact choice:
Mox Diamond's big problem was that it cost you slots that would have gone to spells. Chrome Mox can take over slots that would have gone to lands, because you throw away a spell instead of a mana source. Early on, you're happy to throw something away to get the mana, and later on you hopefully don't need the Chrome Mox anymore. It is win-win. Chrome Mox needs a deck with the right colored mana situation and a sufficient need for speed in order to make it worthwhile, but a decent percentage of decks will end up wanting it. While this offers fast mana, it guards against that by requiring color (since most of the most broken decks use a lot of artifacts) and by eating up a spell. If you use Chrome Mox to try and win quickly, it is hard to avoid running out of cards in your hand.
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"What is mana but possibility, an idea not yet given form?" - Jhoira
I find that the decks I have where I run Mox Diamond, I also run Chrome Mox. The distinction between them is, I feel, academic.
Anyway, yeah, absolutely play it. Often it can enable an explosive play, may not cost you in the long run, and could be a useful pitch to TFK, or an extra freebie for Erayo (if you're running it in Edric, or whatever).
I run Diamond, Chrome, and Opal. Moxen are great but the first 2 are definitely card disadvantage that needs to be considered. There will be times when Diamond isn't castable or when you don't want to pitch something to Chrome. But these drawbacks are mitigated by the fact that they are bloody moxen.
Chrome and Diamond are also great in Edric, Spymaster of Trest. They let you drop a second 1-drop on turn one, and then Edric on turn 2 to draw 2 cards and refresh some of the card disadvantage you blew on them. They're also solid later in the game when you're drawing 5-7 cards in a bunch to get cards out of your hand and onto the board instead of just having to discard.
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I'd most likely run one or even both of Chrome mox and Mox diamond in my arcum deck, if I could find any of my copies of either.
But arcum is all about a 1 on 1 lock down as fast as possible.
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I would Not play this in a deck with only 34 lands you are 2 for 1-ing yourself. This cards is best if you have say 4 lands in your opening hand and a mox because you are going to have land drops turn 1-3 and the mox which is good or it you have just drawn a few cards and have already dropped a land or have two lands in hand so yuo can drop a land and then mox. I guess what I am trying to say is a land for your turn is better than pitching that land for MOx Diamond.
I would Not play this in a deck with only 34 lands you are 2 for 1-ing yourself. This cards is best if you have say 4 lands in your opening hand and a mox because you are going to have land drops turn 1-3 and the mox which is good or it you have just drawn a few cards and have already dropped a land or have two lands in hand so yuo can drop a land and then mox. I guess what I am trying to say is a land for your turn is better than pitching that land for MOx Diamond.
The only problem with this is that's not really how my deck is intending to function. The reason the land count is so low is because my number of mana dorks is so high -- I run 11 spells that cost 3 or less that I would like to play turn 1 (I've even been contemplating upping that count). I have tested the deck more and more recently, and I have had very explosive starts with 2 lands and the Mox Diamond which were very keepable. (They say Sylvan Library turn 1 is pretty nuts). Aside from the various library manipulation i run to find lands if I even need them. My deck is kind of a one-trick pony; Play Sigarda as quickly as possible and just win with general damage on Turn 5-7. Of course, there are other routes to victory, but that's the deck's main plan. I have been thinking of upping the land cound (I even took one out recently because I acquired a Mana Crypt).
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3WR jor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever
3RR zirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers
4:SymRG::SymRG: wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable
2WU kangee, aerie keeper birds
1UBR jeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
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When going all out combo it is good, as pitching a land doesn't matter if you only need a few to get to combo mana. I ran it in my combo version of Mimeoplasm and it allowed fast wins (along with Chrome Mox, Sol Ring, etc.). It is also good in decks like Skullbriar, the Walking Grave, where getting your general out a turn earlier is very important. A turn 1 Skullbriar will basically always get his first +1/+1 counter, a turn 2 Skullbriar might not. It is also pretty good if you are running cards like Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds, as they basically negate the card disadvantage.
GUB The Mimeoplasm GUB
RGW Mayael the Anima RGW
GGG Seton, Krosan Protector GGG
Why is that? I always found Chrome Mox to be worse because it took action out of my hand and could usually only tap for 1 color of mana. Not to mention the fact that you can get the land back, but not the Chrome Mox's imprinted card.
GUB The Mimeoplasm GUB
RGW Mayael the Anima RGW
GGG Seton, Krosan Protector GGG
The Chrome Mox is better most of the time unless you have at least 4 lands in your opening hand in addition to the mox because otherwise the mox isn't going to be getting you into big plays any sooner. For some examples: in my Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck, a Mox Diamond will let me drop one or two cheap wizards faster, but eating a land drop means she is probably not coming out any faster; in Radha, Heir to Keld, the diamond helps her come down on one, but so often leaves you without a relevant 3rd turn land drop.
Like I said, both moxes are good and definitely worth playing in most 1v1 decks, but the fact that really explosive plays usually require some land drops in addition to the mox are why the chrome is usually better in the opening hand. You can usually choose a card that's going to be less useful against your opponent to imprint easier than you can lose one of your opening lands.
The only other deck I've considered it in is my mono-white deck. That deck takes advantage of Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer pretty well, so the effect of having a "land" that didn't count against my actual count is pretty beneficial.
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Also, Mox Diamond enables a God Hand with Sigarda to play her on turn 1:
Mox Diamond[/CARDS], Selesnya signet, Ancient Tomb, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt and some other land get it done. (oh god 6 card combos)
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It's nice that the land is actually pitched rather than exiled. I'll leave it up to newcomer Johnnies to think about that interaction.
Right now, I am considering whether it beats Chrome Mox. It's a hard decision to make, but I think right now the land loss will be felt less. Time will tell.
Actually, I think you isolated the reason Chrome Mox is considered better than Mox Diamond. It can "take action out," so its potential is that exact choice:
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Anyway, yeah, absolutely play it. Often it can enable an explosive play, may not cost you in the long run, and could be a useful pitch to TFK, or an extra freebie for Erayo (if you're running it in Edric, or whatever).
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But arcum is all about a 1 on 1 lock down as fast as possible.
Sek'kuar reanimator
Treva enchantress
Wort the raid mother, Goblin aggro/combo
Arcum Dagsson, the deck you love to hate
Kamahl, fist of Krosa: the token tidal wave
Oros, the hate dragon (WIP, started 12/18/12)
As yet to be determined 7th deck, being debated
The only problem with this is that's not really how my deck is intending to function. The reason the land count is so low is because my number of mana dorks is so high -- I run 11 spells that cost 3 or less that I would like to play turn 1 (I've even been contemplating upping that count). I have tested the deck more and more recently, and I have had very explosive starts with 2 lands and the Mox Diamond which were very keepable. (They say Sylvan Library turn 1 is pretty nuts). Aside from the various library manipulation i run to find lands if I even need them. My deck is kind of a one-trick pony; Play Sigarda as quickly as possible and just win with general damage on Turn 5-7. Of course, there are other routes to victory, but that's the deck's main plan. I have been thinking of upping the land cound (I even took one out recently because I acquired a Mana Crypt).