Ok at a user's request I will implement an official page for proxy talk. We had a very popular thread for this that was recently closed for going off topic but with some ground rules and no poll I can try to keep this one up hopefully. Feel free to post how you and your meta handle proxies in general, what your opinion of other's stances, etc.
Do not discuss the acts of printing and or buying (IE: paying for in any way) proxies. This conversation usually turns into discussion of illegal activity which leads to suspensions or even bannings.
Keep on topic for this thread. Thread hijacking and off-topic comments will not be tolerated.
Have fun, treat others nicely, and don't get in trouble.
Generally I don't like proxies. I run them sometimes if they are cards I might want to put in but don't want to purchase just yet.
Otherwise I will just run sub optimal cards.
I don't like it when other people proxy expensive cards (Force of Will, ABUR duals, Etc.) but I can't think of a time where I've refused to play a game with someone because of their lack of cardboard.
As far as my meta goes, we generally allow people to play with proxies but most of us don't. Often times people will run proxies because they currently have the cards in their standard/modern deck. We don't really make a big fuss about it.
We don't allow them at our tournament/league thingy though. You have to have a legitamate copy of the card when your playing that.
I make a lot of proxies, but its usually of card that I will purchase but just don't have the money for, cards that I can afford but can;t find or finally, cards i own but in other decks.
I make a lot of proxies, but its usually of card that I will purchase but just don't have the money for, cards that I can afford but can;t find or finally, cards i own but in other decks.
I have as question for you specifically and I think this is on topic because it has to do with how a community handles proxies.
Has anyone ever flat out refused to play with you becasue of your proxies?
The only proxies I run are in other decks. With newer players especially, I can pull the other deck out and present the real card when I play the proxy.
I think this is the only really acceptable use of proxies.
My stance on proxies has always been for it because I have the philosophy that regardless of whether or not the deck is real, you lost to someone's idea and them having the real cards for it is irrelevant cause it'd be the same deck real or not.
Of course, this philosophy gets tested when you encounter someone who proxies up a net deck. Thing is, I never really have a problem with proxies because I look at them as a way to test something before you make an investment, especially one that could be considerable in cost.
I ended up developing this philosophy because on numerous occasions I would get snubbed by other players because I was running a proxy or two in my deck. One thing I do not like are people who take up an elitist attitude with someone because said person couldn't afford X $50 card that they could.
I get that in a way to become a better player you should build something with what you have, but you're new to the game and you end up playing with people who've been in the game for a few years or whatever, then sometimes using proxies is the only way you're gonna be able to compete without dumping your paycheck into the game on a regular basis. Sometimes people just want to play magic for fun and I see proxies as a way to allow people to have fun no matter how long they've been playing so long as proxying isn't abused (a black lotus in every deck for example).
Although lately I've been having a small problem with proxies because my friend who runs a Kaalia deck started proxying numerous cards into his deck. At first it started with the dual lands (which I'm fine with cause they're staple cards, so if he intended on building the deck he'd have to buy them), but then he went ahead and proxied Grim Tutor and Moat. Two cards which I KNOW for a fact he isn't gonna buy. I've yet to talk to him about using cheaper alternatives.
My casual and EDH group allows the proxying of any card you actually own but don't have enough of for all the decks you want to build. This allows to not have to buy a zillion dual lands and FOWs. At the casual level, I don't think our budget should make you play with a crappy mana base.
I don't generally mind proxies as long as they're readable, and preferably use one of the sanctioned arts - I like being able to tell what you have in play at a glance. Public zones, public information, etc.
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
My group is fine with proxies as long as they meet one of the following conditions:
1. You own the card and it's in another deck or your binder.
2. You are testing it out in your deck (not necessarily planning on buying it). If playtesting yields negative results, you are expected to remove it from your deck. If results are positive, then no worries because you will most likely purchase said card.
3. You are getting one soon and you want to use it right away.
I make a lot of proxies, but its usually of card that I will purchase but just don't have the money for, cards that I can afford but can;t find or finally, cards i own but in other decks.
This is more or less how our group handles proxies as well it really helps with filling in some oldish cards that no one in the group was around when they were on sale since no one in our group was playing before fallen empires and between urza block and odyssey there was only one player but he seemed to stick mostly to masques block for some reason.
Our only two rules against proxies are P3K cards because any of those we might want would be insanely expensive and were very unlikely to ever find them, and no proxying a cards from an unreleased set because it turns things into who is least lazy about proxying cards with the exception of singleton cards that are spoiled way before a set comes out like Karador or Maelstrom Wanderer.
Good luck keeping this civil. I foresee many deleted or infracted posts based on previous attempts at this topic
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From MaRo
Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
I run an edh cube that I have proxied judiciously for. Plenty of said proxies are to finish off cycles of dual lands and other obscenely high $ edh staples (imperial recruiter etc), but I proxy mainly because I lurk on deviant art a lot, whose users often produce great, thematically appropriate artwork that I would rather see on cards, rather than (imo) garbage like jhoira of the ghitu, adun oakenshield, and many more. If there's an awesome or unique piece of fantasy artwork on DA, there's a good chance I'll replace the actual card in my cube with a proxy, especially generals.
I allow proxies because it promotes a healthy format. People who are trying to get into the format don't have all the cards they want in the deck at the time (albeit in the mail or for testing purposes). As long as they have the card printed out and put into the sleeve so I don't have to look what the card does on my phone, it's all good.
Granted, if all 99 cards are proxys and you're not planning on buying the deck, I'll have a less lenient attitude towards the proxy use but it won't stop me from having a good time playing an EDH game. I'd rather play a guy with 100 proxys and a fun deck to play against than a guy with actual cards and can combo off on turn 3/4/5, having little to no interaction.
I only allow it if others in the playgroup agree to it. They allow my awesome scribbling on the back of a magic card with some power/toughness written. If someone is going to buy the real thing, then we usually do allow them to play with that. Only dual lands are an exception since they generally have minimal impact in the game and hard to come by in some places.
We allow cards from AVR to be proxied since stores aren't legally allowed to sell it and very rarely you can pull the card from the prerelease as well.
However, there are limits to proxying as I don't want to see 50 proxies in a deck. 10 should be the absolute max, and if its only if you're playtesting it. There are alot of budget alternataives in this game, that you don't need 10+ proxies.
I'm usually ok with Proxies within my local meta as we normally only proxy cards we have yet to procure and no one cares to proxy a card like Moat if they aren't planning on getting it. One of the people in our group proxied a Gauntlet of Might specifically to try out as he planned on buying one later on.
So I'm of the opinion that they are fine if you plan on getting/switching the card within a reasonable amount of time and don't use them as a crutch to keep a better deck handy.
I don't really like proxies, although I won't not play with them because they use them. Unless you play in a really competitive meta, you don't really need the revised dual lands / force of will, etc. If someone plays a three color deck with six proxy duals, force, mana drain and a couple of proxy fetches I find that both annoying for the people who have the spent the money on those cards or have found different cards to fill the void.
If someone wants to proxy an imperial recruiter I don't really mind as that card is really hard to find (not taking into account the pricetag) and adds a ton to any red deck. Not having force really won't kill the competitiveness of your deck.
I'm considering using some proxies for cards currently in the mail. They would just be temporary place holders and solve the problem of having to rebuild every time another arrived.
I personally don't like using proxies that "are in other decks" but would never make an issue of it and am fully understanding if they were pulled out for a tourney deck since you really can't proxy.
In full disclosure, I'm at a place in life where I can pretty much afford whatever the hell I want, and I understand that most folks, especially the younger ones, are in a different place--but I actually don't think the "I can't afford it" argument is significant in this debate. There's a socio-political undercurrent to that part, which while a fascinating discussion, isn't a necessary part of the discussion for our purposes. I actually think other factors are more significant.
I disagree that proxies promote health for the format (not that I think they're damaging either). With proxies, you can have 14 decks, all of them chock full of original dual lands, and it feels like that leads to a homogenization instead of diversity.
I understand cost is a factor for many folks who play the game, but the proxy argument can be taken to an illogical end. If proxies are allowed, why ever buy a card/booster pack? I think that part of the experience of the format is finding alternatives to high-cost cards (like playing the affordable Strip Mine instead of the insane Wasteland).
I also think going into a game shop and using proxies is a violation of part of the contract between store owner and client. Running a game store is already a low-return investment. If you want to have a good place to play, you have to support it, and buying packs and singles is part of the arrangement. Players sometimes treat the game shop like's it's a university-funded Student Union, and it's simply not. The players themselves have some responsibility.
On the whole, I'm anti-proxy since there are so many great choices of cards that you don't really NEED that specific card--and if you feel you really need it so badly, then I think you should make the effort to acquire it. Wanting something badly enough means making sacrifices if sacrifices are required.
If I sit down to a casual game and someone says they have a card proxied for a good reason (didn't have the time to pull it out of a deck before they showed up, or the card store guy is currently too busy with other stuff to grab it, for example), I'm okay with it, but I wouldn't want it to be an ongoing thing.
I think the argument that "it's a casual format" actually supports NOT allowing proxies. If it's a casual format, you're not really going to suffer by having to find a replacement. Is Llanowar Wastes so much worse than Bayou that it's going to significantly impact your deck? If the answer is "it's suboptimal," you may have carried yourself outside the casualness (which is fine, but you can't then use it as part of your argument).
I disagree that proxies promote health for the format (not that I think they're damaging either). With proxies, you can have 14 decks, all of them chock full of original dual lands, and it feels like that leads to a homogenization instead of diversity.
I totally agree with this counterpoint to Marc's "everyone has access to all cards" approach. I mean, yeah, perhaps the example is a little over the top, but dealing with limitations of not having certain cards or multiple copies of those cards makes for exciting and dynamic deckbuilding. I believe if everyone had everything in infinite quantities, we'd see MUCH less variety in decks, which is part of what gives this format its charm. Between that and the "everyone has everything" alternative, I feel it is the least harmful of the two approaches.
I think the argument that "it's a casual format" actually supports NOT allowing proxies. If it's a casual format, you're not really going to suffer by having to find a replacement. Is Llanowar Wastes so much worse than Bayou that it's going to significantly impact your deck? If the answer is "it's suboptimal," you may have carried yourself outside the casualness (which is fine, but you can't then use it as part of your argument).
Also interested to hear a valid counterargument to this as well because I think it makes a lot of sense. Granted, if one views the format as competitive then maybe you do want everyone to have access to everything... but of course this game is different for everyone. There will always be a "casual vs competitive" aspect to this issue as it permeates every little corner of this game.
I also think going into a game shop and using proxies is a violation of part of the contract between store owner and client. Running a game store is already a low-return investment. If you want to have a good place to play, you have to support it, and buying packs and singles is part of the arrangement. Players sometimes treat the game shop like's it's a university-funded Student Union, and it's simply not. The players themselves have some responsibility.
I just wanted to sort of kick off of this point as I don't know if I am in an odd situation however my Game Store sells packs only. Being a commander player buying packs of standard only gets you so far when what you need is a 10 year old card. I am all for supporting the local shop you play at however there are a lot of stores who don't have the option of buying anything you are looking for. Plus what if they just have really bad selection? I can understand that you probably shouldn't proxy up a card forever that your shop has for sale for $5.00 however sometimes it just isn't an option to support the store by buying singles. Buying packs for commander is sort of silly business as well. I think I dropped $45 on Pre-Release for my wife and I and I opened a whole of like $15 worth of cards of which I can find potential use for like $3 of cards. That isn't that productive for a commander player.
I myself still try to support my local store by buying soda and food from them rather regularly. I buy a few packs here and there as well but when you don't play any 60 card formats and don't care much for limited formats buying packs is bad news... Realistically I dont have a reason to buy anything outside of online singles as that is the best bang for my buck. I buy things from my store to support them though. Telling me I cant use proxies so they can make more profit makes no sense because most of the proxies I use are not things they can provide for me.
Mostly, I proxy lands and Top. I own one of each, and keep them in one of those 4-page binders, since it's silly to just switch them around, especially if you plan on playing multiple games in one session.
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I disagree that proxies promote health for the format (not that I think they're damaging either). With proxies, you can have 14 decks, all of them chock full of original dual lands, and it feels like that leads to a homogenization instead of diversity.
I guess "promoting" was the wrong term to express how I feel about proxys in my example.
To be specific, I sat down at my FNM last week and after the draft, me, and two dudes sat down for an EDH game. One of the dudes have never played EDH before but luckily the other person we were playing with had a spare. We sat down and the new EDH player loved it. I asked him to make an EDH deck for next week so we can play again just in case the other player didn't bring his spare. However, like most of the casual community, he had a decent amount of cards and of good quality, but not enough of a single color and that amount (around 60 high quality cards for EDH is a long for a casual magic gamer) so he was not inclined to build one. I offered him to have a couple proxys in his deck so we can play next week.
Within one week span, it is very difficult to obtain all ~60 cards (not including non-basic lands) to play EDH. Especially considering the LGS we play at only has singles for standard and the singles they have available for eternal formats.... are very few and lackluster. That means if he wants singles (hell, even just a commander he would like to play with and to dedicate a whole deck around), he'd have to buy the cards online aka waiting for shipping. If it takes longer than week for the cards to come, I'm not going to prevent this guy from playing a game just because his cards are going to come the week after.
Thus, proxys would be the logical answer for him to play because yes there are "sub-optimal" substitutions (like Counterspell>Mana Drain) but putting in a card that's not even relevant to your commander in your deck makes no sense whatsoever. (Don't give me, "oh you can just run Cancel". I'm talking about situations where you don't even have Cancel and you're store isn't selling singles. Yeah one person might have a Cancel for trade, but it takes A LONG TIME to fill out the rest of your deck like this.
On top of things, what if you want to explore the format and you want to test cards to put into your EDH deck. The worst feeling in the world is when you spent $10 on a card ($10 may not be a lot of money for some of us, it but it is for the majority of the people) just because you don't want to proxy and it winds up being cut because it doesn't work out. $10 down the drain when it could have easily been saved by proxying. There's 100 cards in EDH so if you cross this situation more than once, the $10 adds up.
I'm not saying everyone should proxy this proxy that. I'm offering proxying as a temporary solution to cards you are going to obtain/testing purposes. When I was new to EDH and I built my deck online and tested on MWS/Cockatrice I was finally set on my finishing list and bought most of my cards online and in store to another game store that's farther than the one I go to for FNM. However, some of the cards (around 14) didn't come in the mail for me at the time I went to play EDH at my LGS for the first time. However, the group I played with allowed me to play with my proxys and we had a blast. One of the best EDH games I've played in. (ps: the proxys were cards like Oracle of Mul Daya and Desert Twister and Ursapine in my Azusa)
Imagine if they didn't let me play with proxys that week. I don't know if I would have liked EDH as much as I do now. So I guess "promoting the health of EDH" isn't really worded correctly. I'll restate and say that it "helps MAINTAIN the health of EDH"
I'm kind of interested to see where everybody lies with this issue (which I kind of sort of think relates). The usage of gold border or collectors edition cards in edh decks?
I don't mind them, I think it may bother others less than a proxy, however, I could see it being considered the same as they are not "tournament legal". Personally I own 3 gold bordered cards that I use in decks; Yawgmoth's Will, Vampiric Tutor, and Gaea's Cradle. The only reason that I use them is because of the availability of the cards and my ability to afford them outside of a trading environment.
Imagine if they didn't let me play with proxys that week. I don't know if I would have liked EDH as much as I do now. So I guess "promoting the health of EDH" isn't really worded correctly. I'll restate and say that it "helps MAINTAIN the health of EDH"
Oracle of Mul Daya and Desert Twister and Ursapine contributed to a fun game that could not have happened without the use of proxies? You had so much fun playing 4 lands instead of 3 with your general out? All those cards are nice and all. I just fail to see how they hinge on the fact that you have fun or not.
You decide if you are going to have fun. It isn't all about the cards you play in EDH. It is about the people you play with and the conversations had during the game. At least that is how it is with me. Let me tell you, if I did not have great conversations during a game of EDH I would not be playing it every week and looking forward to it as well. I could play with my janky little Sassya deck with 68 lands and have fun. You really don't need to play with optimal cards and optimal deck lists to have fun. You need to play with optimal friends and have an optimal atmosphere. And if you don't live near/have any friends that play then play with people and test the environment. If you aren't having fun then find another card shop if you can. Don't think that you need to proxy to have fun. Taking short cuts never give you the same satisfaction.
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[Modern] Allies
Otherwise I will just run sub optimal cards.
I don't like it when other people proxy expensive cards (Force of Will, ABUR duals, Etc.) but I can't think of a time where I've refused to play a game with someone because of their lack of cardboard.
As far as my meta goes, we generally allow people to play with proxies but most of us don't. Often times people will run proxies because they currently have the cards in their standard/modern deck. We don't really make a big fuss about it.
We don't allow them at our tournament/league thingy though. You have to have a legitamate copy of the card when your playing that.
RBUThraximundarUBRRUNiv-Mizzet, the FiremindUR
BWGhost Council of OrzhovaWBWUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
WBRKaalia of the VastRBWGBSapling of ColfenorGB
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I have as question for you specifically and I think this is on topic because it has to do with how a community handles proxies.
Has anyone ever flat out refused to play with you becasue of your proxies?
RBUThraximundarUBRRUNiv-Mizzet, the FiremindUR
BWGhost Council of OrzhovaWBWUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
WBRKaalia of the VastRBWGBSapling of ColfenorGB
I think this is the only really acceptable use of proxies.
Of course, this philosophy gets tested when you encounter someone who proxies up a net deck. Thing is, I never really have a problem with proxies because I look at them as a way to test something before you make an investment, especially one that could be considerable in cost.
I ended up developing this philosophy because on numerous occasions I would get snubbed by other players because I was running a proxy or two in my deck. One thing I do not like are people who take up an elitist attitude with someone because said person couldn't afford X $50 card that they could.
I get that in a way to become a better player you should build something with what you have, but you're new to the game and you end up playing with people who've been in the game for a few years or whatever, then sometimes using proxies is the only way you're gonna be able to compete without dumping your paycheck into the game on a regular basis. Sometimes people just want to play magic for fun and I see proxies as a way to allow people to have fun no matter how long they've been playing so long as proxying isn't abused (a black lotus in every deck for example).
Although lately I've been having a small problem with proxies because my friend who runs a Kaalia deck started proxying numerous cards into his deck. At first it started with the dual lands (which I'm fine with cause they're staple cards, so if he intended on building the deck he'd have to buy them), but then he went ahead and proxied Grim Tutor and Moat. Two cards which I KNOW for a fact he isn't gonna buy. I've yet to talk to him about using cheaper alternatives.
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My least-favorite proxy ever was a custom-art Rafiq of the Many where the art was of a white guy.
Just my opinion.
1. You own the card and it's in another deck or your binder.
2. You are testing it out in your deck (not necessarily planning on buying it). If playtesting yields negative results, you are expected to remove it from your deck. If results are positive, then no worries because you will most likely purchase said card.
3. You are getting one soon and you want to use it right away.
This is more or less how our group handles proxies as well it really helps with filling in some oldish cards that no one in the group was around when they were on sale since no one in our group was playing before fallen empires and between urza block and odyssey there was only one player but he seemed to stick mostly to masques block for some reason.
Our only two rules against proxies are P3K cards because any of those we might want would be insanely expensive and were very unlikely to ever find them, and no proxying a cards from an unreleased set because it turns things into who is least lazy about proxying cards with the exception of singleton cards that are spoiled way before a set comes out like Karador or Maelstrom Wanderer.
Good luck keeping this civil. I foresee many deleted or infracted posts based on previous attempts at this topic
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Granted, if all 99 cards are proxys and you're not planning on buying the deck, I'll have a less lenient attitude towards the proxy use but it won't stop me from having a good time playing an EDH game. I'd rather play a guy with 100 proxys and a fun deck to play against than a guy with actual cards and can combo off on turn 3/4/5, having little to no interaction.
We allow cards from AVR to be proxied since stores aren't legally allowed to sell it and very rarely you can pull the card from the prerelease as well.
However, there are limits to proxying as I don't want to see 50 proxies in a deck. 10 should be the absolute max, and if its only if you're playtesting it. There are alot of budget alternataives in this game, that you don't need 10+ proxies.
So I'm of the opinion that they are fine if you plan on getting/switching the card within a reasonable amount of time and don't use them as a crutch to keep a better deck handy.
Horobi, Death's Wail
If someone wants to proxy an imperial recruiter I don't really mind as that card is really hard to find (not taking into account the pricetag) and adds a ton to any red deck. Not having force really won't kill the competitiveness of your deck.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I personally don't like using proxies that "are in other decks" but would never make an issue of it and am fully understanding if they were pulled out for a tourney deck since you really can't proxy.
I disagree that proxies promote health for the format (not that I think they're damaging either). With proxies, you can have 14 decks, all of them chock full of original dual lands, and it feels like that leads to a homogenization instead of diversity.
I understand cost is a factor for many folks who play the game, but the proxy argument can be taken to an illogical end. If proxies are allowed, why ever buy a card/booster pack? I think that part of the experience of the format is finding alternatives to high-cost cards (like playing the affordable Strip Mine instead of the insane Wasteland).
I also think going into a game shop and using proxies is a violation of part of the contract between store owner and client. Running a game store is already a low-return investment. If you want to have a good place to play, you have to support it, and buying packs and singles is part of the arrangement. Players sometimes treat the game shop like's it's a university-funded Student Union, and it's simply not. The players themselves have some responsibility.
On the whole, I'm anti-proxy since there are so many great choices of cards that you don't really NEED that specific card--and if you feel you really need it so badly, then I think you should make the effort to acquire it. Wanting something badly enough means making sacrifices if sacrifices are required.
If I sit down to a casual game and someone says they have a card proxied for a good reason (didn't have the time to pull it out of a deck before they showed up, or the card store guy is currently too busy with other stuff to grab it, for example), I'm okay with it, but I wouldn't want it to be an ongoing thing.
I think the argument that "it's a casual format" actually supports NOT allowing proxies. If it's a casual format, you're not really going to suffer by having to find a replacement. Is Llanowar Wastes so much worse than Bayou that it's going to significantly impact your deck? If the answer is "it's suboptimal," you may have carried yourself outside the casualness (which is fine, but you can't then use it as part of your argument).
I totally agree with this counterpoint to Marc's "everyone has access to all cards" approach. I mean, yeah, perhaps the example is a little over the top, but dealing with limitations of not having certain cards or multiple copies of those cards makes for exciting and dynamic deckbuilding. I believe if everyone had everything in infinite quantities, we'd see MUCH less variety in decks, which is part of what gives this format its charm. Between that and the "everyone has everything" alternative, I feel it is the least harmful of the two approaches.
Also interested to hear a valid counterargument to this as well because I think it makes a lot of sense. Granted, if one views the format as competitive then maybe you do want everyone to have access to everything... but of course this game is different for everyone. There will always be a "casual vs competitive" aspect to this issue as it permeates every little corner of this game.
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Thada Adel Stax WIP
I just wanted to sort of kick off of this point as I don't know if I am in an odd situation however my Game Store sells packs only. Being a commander player buying packs of standard only gets you so far when what you need is a 10 year old card. I am all for supporting the local shop you play at however there are a lot of stores who don't have the option of buying anything you are looking for. Plus what if they just have really bad selection? I can understand that you probably shouldn't proxy up a card forever that your shop has for sale for $5.00 however sometimes it just isn't an option to support the store by buying singles. Buying packs for commander is sort of silly business as well. I think I dropped $45 on Pre-Release for my wife and I and I opened a whole of like $15 worth of cards of which I can find potential use for like $3 of cards. That isn't that productive for a commander player.
I myself still try to support my local store by buying soda and food from them rather regularly. I buy a few packs here and there as well but when you don't play any 60 card formats and don't care much for limited formats buying packs is bad news... Realistically I dont have a reason to buy anything outside of online singles as that is the best bang for my buck. I buy things from my store to support them though. Telling me I cant use proxies so they can make more profit makes no sense because most of the proxies I use are not things they can provide for me.
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[Modern] Allies
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
I guess "promoting" was the wrong term to express how I feel about proxys in my example.
To be specific, I sat down at my FNM last week and after the draft, me, and two dudes sat down for an EDH game. One of the dudes have never played EDH before but luckily the other person we were playing with had a spare. We sat down and the new EDH player loved it. I asked him to make an EDH deck for next week so we can play again just in case the other player didn't bring his spare. However, like most of the casual community, he had a decent amount of cards and of good quality, but not enough of a single color and that amount (around 60 high quality cards for EDH is a long for a casual magic gamer) so he was not inclined to build one. I offered him to have a couple proxys in his deck so we can play next week.
Within one week span, it is very difficult to obtain all ~60 cards (not including non-basic lands) to play EDH. Especially considering the LGS we play at only has singles for standard and the singles they have available for eternal formats.... are very few and lackluster. That means if he wants singles (hell, even just a commander he would like to play with and to dedicate a whole deck around), he'd have to buy the cards online aka waiting for shipping. If it takes longer than week for the cards to come, I'm not going to prevent this guy from playing a game just because his cards are going to come the week after.
Thus, proxys would be the logical answer for him to play because yes there are "sub-optimal" substitutions (like Counterspell>Mana Drain) but putting in a card that's not even relevant to your commander in your deck makes no sense whatsoever. (Don't give me, "oh you can just run Cancel". I'm talking about situations where you don't even have Cancel and you're store isn't selling singles. Yeah one person might have a Cancel for trade, but it takes A LONG TIME to fill out the rest of your deck like this.
On top of things, what if you want to explore the format and you want to test cards to put into your EDH deck. The worst feeling in the world is when you spent $10 on a card ($10 may not be a lot of money for some of us, it but it is for the majority of the people) just because you don't want to proxy and it winds up being cut because it doesn't work out. $10 down the drain when it could have easily been saved by proxying. There's 100 cards in EDH so if you cross this situation more than once, the $10 adds up.
I'm not saying everyone should proxy this proxy that. I'm offering proxying as a temporary solution to cards you are going to obtain/testing purposes. When I was new to EDH and I built my deck online and tested on MWS/Cockatrice I was finally set on my finishing list and bought most of my cards online and in store to another game store that's farther than the one I go to for FNM. However, some of the cards (around 14) didn't come in the mail for me at the time I went to play EDH at my LGS for the first time. However, the group I played with allowed me to play with my proxys and we had a blast. One of the best EDH games I've played in. (ps: the proxys were cards like Oracle of Mul Daya and Desert Twister and Ursapine in my Azusa)
Imagine if they didn't let me play with proxys that week. I don't know if I would have liked EDH as much as I do now. So I guess "promoting the health of EDH" isn't really worded correctly. I'll restate and say that it "helps MAINTAIN the health of EDH"
I don't mind them, I think it may bother others less than a proxy, however, I could see it being considered the same as they are not "tournament legal". Personally I own 3 gold bordered cards that I use in decks; Yawgmoth's Will, Vampiric Tutor, and Gaea's Cradle. The only reason that I use them is because of the availability of the cards and my ability to afford them outside of a trading environment.
Uril, The Miststalker:Enchantress Beatdown
Borborygmos Enraged: Terrain Assault
Shattergang Brothers: Superfriends
You decide if you are going to have fun. It isn't all about the cards you play in EDH. It is about the people you play with and the conversations had during the game. At least that is how it is with me. Let me tell you, if I did not have great conversations during a game of EDH I would not be playing it every week and looking forward to it as well. I could play with my janky little Sassya deck with 68 lands and have fun. You really don't need to play with optimal cards and optimal deck lists to have fun. You need to play with optimal friends and have an optimal atmosphere. And if you don't live near/have any friends that play then play with people and test the environment. If you aren't having fun then find another card shop if you can. Don't think that you need to proxy to have fun. Taking short cuts never give you the same satisfaction.
Mono-Black Oona, Queen of the Fae
Athreos, God of Passage