He would probably fit in with my play groups. We swear like sailors, call each other names, all while blowing stuff up.
Meh, my friends do that too, but it's out of respect and good times, not crabbiness and vulgarity.
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UUU Talrand, Sky Summoner // (W/U)(W/U)(W/U) Grand Arbiter Augustin IV // RRR Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker // (R/G)(R/G)(R/G) Wort, the Raidmother // URG Riku of Two Reflections // RWU Ruhan of the Fomori
Quote from Mark Rosewater »
In response to your Lightning Blast, I'll eat this burrito.
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This is why I started playing magic in the first place. It wasn't PT aspirations just making noobs cry by doing things that are perfectly fair.
I was terrified of it and figured it would be an autoban in December. Then, I had it in hand the first time and was feeling giddy like I was about to completely wreck the table. Then I saw the Reviellark on the table, the blink spell, the guy with an empty board already... and I just held it. When I finally played it, it facilitated me getting the crap kicked out of me with an Inferno Titan. Another time it bounced 3-4 permanents and they we all replayed the next turn.
I suppose if I was building around the card it would be one thing, but as "just another board wipe" it's not as strong as I thought. It's just not. That won't keep me from Windfalling a table after I cast this, but still.... as a card designed to clear out your opponents' non-land permanents it's just really good - NOT OMG BAN BAN BAN IT WITH FIRE!!!!
(To provide context: I play in a meta full of answers and low curves, so if you play in a place where the game starts at 7 mana you will get a different value out of this card for sure...or at least in theory)
Yeah, my initial impression was that it would be an Evacuation most of the time in most casual/random groups. I've seen it played maybe a dozen or so times on-line now (been a while since they've had the spoiler packs out), and I can remember only once or twice that someone tried to follow it up with something nasty like Ill-Gotten Gains. Most of the other times it was an Evacuation that affected people's mana rocks, which ironically the blue players tended to have the most of, go figure. Tempo like Jenara, etc, most of the time either aren't swinging, or no one has anything to block anyway, or they have stuff of their own out like Acidic Slime that don't swing. They're the decks that I think people would consider the "you don't control" clause relevant for, and the single combat step that it buys usually isn't a game-breaker.
But of course, I don't see a lot of pillow-fort and Stax in randoms online, anyway. I'm not sure how it would affect these decks that go enchantment, artifact, enchantment, enchantment. Probably makes a difference against someone who is being annoying with Propaganda, but tokens v. propaganda isn't something I've seen too often. And other than that, I'm not sure how often you'd find someone with 6+ mana worth of non-creature permanents that they can't replay immediately. So, not conclusive.
The question is whether it's in the same group as Upheaval, Jokulhaups, etc. By itself, clearly it's not. But this isn't a class of cards you just cast by themselves for no reason anyway, despite the whining I've heard here on Salvation against those who apparently do. And still, there are big differences. Jok provides its own mana-disruption, but you have to have something out of the ordinary to finish up. Cyclonic-Rift needs something like hand disruption or land disruption to be used that way, but on the other hand you don't have to have anything out of the ordinary of your own to survive it. I'm not sure which it's easier for randoms to figure out how to abuse, since being daft makes them unpredictable, but it's probably Rift. And there will also always be that cop-out that it's in there to be used "fairly", and so casuals will more easily get away with running it all the time wheras they can't with Jok.
Long story short, it's strong card that's not as backbreaking as it seems when used in a straightforward way, quite abusable, but not bannable.
Im so glad fatty got rid of the ugly baby from recall picture for Arnold. Rift is awesome an auto include fun and no where near what the consider ban worthy good card does not = ban
Im so glad fatty got rid of the ugly baby from recall picture for Arnold. Rift is awesome an auto include fun and no where near what the consider ban worthy good card does not = ban
Idk...i think it gave a pretty accurate picture of what i think fatty would look like.
Cyclonic rift is pretty sweet. Been running it in Rasputin. Doesn't win the game in the context of that deck. Buys me time is generally about it. I suspect it would be far more powerful in my Riku deck.
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DCI Level 1 Judge-
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
It's definitely abusable in rug/bug good stuff decks. That's the place you're going to hate to see this card.
Isn't "RUG/UG predictable goodstuff" where all cards go to get strapped to the rack and filmed for ****ingmachines.com? Using that as a baseline for discussion is... I don't know.
Isn't "RUG/UG predictable goodstuff" where all cards go to get strapped to the rack and filmed for ****ingmachines.com? Using that as a baseline for discussion is... I don't know.
I dont think thats the baseline, but it is legit that THOSE are the decks it will wreck faces.But that makes it one of a dozen...
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Isn't "RUG/UG predictable goodstuff" where all cards go to get strapped to the rack and filmed for ****ingmachines.com? Using that as a baseline for discussion is... I don't know.
I love that website!
Anyway, guardian has gotten better at not playing goodstuff all day, bu it's still a thing. That reminds me. Can't wait to let play the "I vomit my deck onto the table" deck with his in hand. It will be so delicious.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
In the last 6 or so games that I've played? I've seen it played 4 times, by me each time, and it was a game-winner each time.
What was the board like? I have this feeling that other people don't play nearly as much removal as I see... the idea that anyone would have more than 2-3 creatures is unheard of... mana rocks and enchantments might get up to 3-4 each, but that just sets yourself up for a sweep.
What was the board like? I have this feeling that other people don't play nearly as much removal as I see... the idea that anyone would have more than 2-3 creatures is unheard of... mana rocks and enchantments might get up to 3-4 each, but that just sets yourself up for a sweep.
I agree. In my meta, most players are lucky if they have more than 2 creatures on the board.
I agree. In my meta, most players are lucky if they have more than 2 creatures on the board.
A thousand times this. In fact, for me this ties into one of the few "real issues" with Cyclonic Rift. I have no objection to the rift in particular, but it does seem to contribute to the "haymakers and sweepers" issue in how EDH games play out. A lot of games seem to fall into a similar pattern of players taking turns dropping Big Threats of whatever kind and then the board getting swept by whoever is furthest behind. Every "good sweeper" that gets printed increases the redundancy of board wipe effects.
In my meta, everyone knows that mass destruction is great in Commander and it can be very hard to get much to stick to the board through all the O stones, Akroma's Vengeances, etc etc. Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, but as "yet another board wipe" it contributes to that play pattern, which can produce extremely boring and drawn out games where every threat is answered within a turn rotation.
A thousand times this. In fact, for me this ties into one of the few "real issues" with Cyclonic Rift. I have no objection to the rift in particular, but it does seem to contribute to the "haymakers and sweepers" issue in how EDH games play out. A lot of games seem to fall into a similar pattern of players taking turns dropping Big Threats of whatever kind and then the board getting swept by whoever is furthest behind. Every "good sweeper" that gets printed increases the redundancy of board wipe effects.
In my meta, everyone knows that mass destruction is great in Commander and it can be very hard to get much to stick to the board through all the O stones, Akroma's Vengeances, etc etc. Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, but as "yet another board wipe" it contributes to that play pattern, which can produce extremely boring and drawn out games where every threat is answered within a turn rotation.
A thousand times this. In fact, for me this ties into one of the few "real issues" with Cyclonic Rift. I have no objection to the rift in particular, but it does seem to contribute to the "haymakers and sweepers" issue in how EDH games play out. A lot of games seem to fall into a similar pattern of players taking turns dropping Big Threats of whatever kind and then the board getting swept by whoever is furthest behind. Every "good sweeper" that gets printed increases the redundancy of board wipe effects.
In my meta, everyone knows that mass destruction is great in Commander and it can be very hard to get much to stick to the board through all the O stones, Akroma's Vengeances, etc etc. Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, but as "yet another board wipe" it contributes to that play pattern, which can produce extremely boring and drawn out games where every threat is answered within a turn rotation.
I have a hard time seeing how Cyclonic Rift will drag a game out. Maybe they're doing it wrong.
About 90% of the cards you listed are frequently played in my metagame, because they are the natural response to a sweeper heavy environment. We aren't clueless about this stuff, because sweepers are so common there is a lot of self-bounce and persist and reanimation and recursion as a result - which leads to the arms race of more exile effects and countermagic and split-second or uncounterable effects, etc. Our playgroup has been playing for over a decade (obviously not EDH the whole time since it didn't exist back then) and we aren't ignorant of what is available in the card pool.
When everyone at the table is running heavy control elements and forms temporary alliances to crush whatever board presence starts to develop, it's very difficult for a proactive deck to be successful when the control decks team up to keep it down.
As I said, I actually think Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, and in many ways I prefer it to purely symmetrical sweepers, because it doesn't encourage "do nothing" play in the same way since it preserves your own stuff. At the same time, I can already tell that it's arrival sure isn't it making it any easier to keep permanents on the board.
But, how could this be, unless you didn't cast it on the player to your right's turn.
Anyway, I think the going mono-blue combo for this is: EOT Overload Cyclonic Rift, Temporal Cascade (not entwined) shuffling up all hands and graveyards.
That's diabolical...I'm feeling it.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
What was the board like? I have this feeling that other people don't play nearly as much removal as I see... the idea that anyone would have more than 2-3 creatures is unheard of... mana rocks and enchantments might get up to 3-4 each, but that just sets yourself up for a sweep.
I think in our meta, we would average about 2-3 sweepers a game, but with aggressive decks I have gone with 4+ creatures especially with counter backup or someone playing Gaddock Teeg hate parade which all but stops most sweepers.
Haven't gotten to actually drop the Rift yet since I added it to my Damia control deck. BUT I can tell you, just in this deck, when it hits it will be a winner most of the time. I would only use it as "removal" as a last resort. I would always try to use it as a win.
Trying to do it with style. Ramp up, EoT the Rift then Alchemist's Refuge T&N for the win.
Got to cast an overloaded rift yesterday. Was more of a defensive move against the Mono G player. It was good, but not over whelming at all. Solid card, but it did not result in a win for me.
Meh, my friends do that too, but it's out of respect and good times, not crabbiness and vulgarity.
Yeah, my initial impression was that it would be an Evacuation most of the time in most casual/random groups. I've seen it played maybe a dozen or so times on-line now (been a while since they've had the spoiler packs out), and I can remember only once or twice that someone tried to follow it up with something nasty like Ill-Gotten Gains. Most of the other times it was an Evacuation that affected people's mana rocks, which ironically the blue players tended to have the most of, go figure. Tempo like Jenara, etc, most of the time either aren't swinging, or no one has anything to block anyway, or they have stuff of their own out like Acidic Slime that don't swing. They're the decks that I think people would consider the "you don't control" clause relevant for, and the single combat step that it buys usually isn't a game-breaker.
But of course, I don't see a lot of pillow-fort and Stax in randoms online, anyway. I'm not sure how it would affect these decks that go enchantment, artifact, enchantment, enchantment. Probably makes a difference against someone who is being annoying with Propaganda, but tokens v. propaganda isn't something I've seen too often. And other than that, I'm not sure how often you'd find someone with 6+ mana worth of non-creature permanents that they can't replay immediately. So, not conclusive.
The question is whether it's in the same group as Upheaval, Jokulhaups, etc. By itself, clearly it's not. But this isn't a class of cards you just cast by themselves for no reason anyway, despite the whining I've heard here on Salvation against those who apparently do. And still, there are big differences. Jok provides its own mana-disruption, but you have to have something out of the ordinary to finish up. Cyclonic-Rift needs something like hand disruption or land disruption to be used that way, but on the other hand you don't have to have anything out of the ordinary of your own to survive it. I'm not sure which it's easier for randoms to figure out how to abuse, since being daft makes them unpredictable, but it's probably Rift. And there will also always be that cop-out that it's in there to be used "fairly", and so casuals will more easily get away with running it all the time wheras they can't with Jok.
Long story short, it's strong card that's not as backbreaking as it seems when used in a straightforward way, quite abusable, but not bannable.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Idk...i think it gave a pretty accurate picture of what i think fatty would look like.
Cyclonic rift is pretty sweet. Been running it in Rasputin. Doesn't win the game in the context of that deck. Buys me time is generally about it. I suspect it would be far more powerful in my Riku deck.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
That seems to be the consensus... "It's not a complete blow out in Deck X but in Deck Y is might be."
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
It's definitely abusable in rug/bug good stuff decks. That's the place you're going to hate to see this card.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Isn't "RUG/UG predictable goodstuff" where all cards go to get strapped to the rack and filmed for ****ingmachines.com? Using that as a baseline for discussion is... I don't know.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I love that website!
Anyway, guardian has gotten better at not playing goodstuff all day, bu it's still a thing. That reminds me. Can't wait to let play the "I vomit my deck onto the table" deck with his in hand. It will be so delicious.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
In the last 6 or so games that I've played? I've seen it played 4 times, by me each time, and it was a game-winner each time.
What was the board like? I have this feeling that other people don't play nearly as much removal as I see... the idea that anyone would have more than 2-3 creatures is unheard of... mana rocks and enchantments might get up to 3-4 each, but that just sets yourself up for a sweep.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I agree. In my meta, most players are lucky if they have more than 2 creatures on the board.
A thousand times this. In fact, for me this ties into one of the few "real issues" with Cyclonic Rift. I have no objection to the rift in particular, but it does seem to contribute to the "haymakers and sweepers" issue in how EDH games play out. A lot of games seem to fall into a similar pattern of players taking turns dropping Big Threats of whatever kind and then the board getting swept by whoever is furthest behind. Every "good sweeper" that gets printed increases the redundancy of board wipe effects.
In my meta, everyone knows that mass destruction is great in Commander and it can be very hard to get much to stick to the board through all the O stones, Akroma's Vengeances, etc etc. Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, but as "yet another board wipe" it contributes to that play pattern, which can produce extremely boring and drawn out games where every threat is answered within a turn rotation.
So why not capitalize on your meta and run things like counterspells, haste enablers, flash enablers, Ghostway, Cauldron of Souls, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Dauntless Escort, Saffi Eriksdottir, Eldrazi Monument, Rootborn Defenses, Living Death, Twilight's Call, Evacuation, Genesis, Grave Betrayal, Nim Deathmantle, Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Vicious Shadows, Gaddock Teeg, Angelic Renewal, Miraculous Recovery, Otherworldly Journey, Voyager Staff, Tooth and Nail combo, Firemind's Foresight combo, Mistmeadow Witch, Spearbreaker Behemoth, Deathless Angel, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Darksteel Plate, Shield of Kaldra, Shield of the Oversoul, Phyrexian Reclamation, Unburial Rites, Capsize, Hurkyl's Recall, Yavimaya Hollow, Golgari Charm, Twilight Shepherd, Undying Evil, Lord of Extinction, Mortivore, Kessig Cagebreakers, Woodfall Primus, etc, etc...
Sounds like you could have a field day.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
I have a hard time seeing how Cyclonic Rift will drag a game out. Maybe they're doing it wrong.
If it's only being used only to save players who are behind, as so many people in this thread attest, it's dragging games out.
Keep in mind that dragging games out is not necessarily a bad thing.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
About 90% of the cards you listed are frequently played in my metagame, because they are the natural response to a sweeper heavy environment. We aren't clueless about this stuff, because sweepers are so common there is a lot of self-bounce and persist and reanimation and recursion as a result - which leads to the arms race of more exile effects and countermagic and split-second or uncounterable effects, etc. Our playgroup has been playing for over a decade (obviously not EDH the whole time since it didn't exist back then) and we aren't ignorant of what is available in the card pool.
When everyone at the table is running heavy control elements and forms temporary alliances to crush whatever board presence starts to develop, it's very difficult for a proactive deck to be successful when the control decks team up to keep it down.
As I said, I actually think Cyclonic Rift is a fine card, and in many ways I prefer it to purely symmetrical sweepers, because it doesn't encourage "do nothing" play in the same way since it preserves your own stuff. At the same time, I can already tell that it's arrival sure isn't it making it any easier to keep permanents on the board.
That's diabolical...I'm feeling it.
I think in our meta, we would average about 2-3 sweepers a game, but with aggressive decks I have gone with 4+ creatures especially with counter backup or someone playing Gaddock Teeg hate parade which all but stops most sweepers.
Trying to do it with style. Ramp up, EoT the Rift then Alchemist's Refuge T&N for the win.
Na I'm running it in a multi color deck.....overload cyclone rift.....wheel of fortune
I say amusing, but none of the other players were amused. Not when I also had mindclaw shaman and mnemonic wall in play.