Very cute. But I believe the "average" player does not know about Tabernacle (I've had people who have played for over a decade not know what it is) in the same way that they wouldn't know what Chains of Mephestopheles is. Not everyone has been playing as long as you or I (and I'm running under the assumption that you've played a while). Also, people on magic forums know far more than the average card shop or kitchen table player. Remember how large the game is and be less pretentious. You'll come off less like a troll.
I as you can tell just I started reading the forums I was a kitchen table / cards shop player, and I know as much now as I did then. I was asked my definition of a "good stuff deck", and I gave it. You where the one that said I was wrong with no argiment to support your claim. These are the forums, these are the people I am talking to if they are unfamiliar with a card I name it is real easy for them to find out. Then if they disagree with me that great tell me why and lets talk about it. To make a statement like every card is a good stuff card because people don't know a card is ridculous. Bring me a well thought out reason to support your claim and I won't have to tell you how foolish you sound. So instead you just telling people thet are wrong, try telling us your definition of a good stuff deck and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about it.
I as you can tell just I started reading the forums I was a kitchen table / cards shop player, and I know as much now as I did then. I was asked my definition of a "good stuff deck", and I gave it. You where the one that said I was wrong with no argiment to support your claim. These are the forums, these are the people I am talking to if they are unfamiliar with a card I name it is real easy for them to find out. Then if they disagree with me that great tell me why and lets talk about it. To make a statement like every card is a good stuff card because people don't know a card is ridculous. Bring me a well thought out reason to support your claim and I won't have to tell you how foolish you sound. So instead you just telling people thet are wrong, try telling us your definition of a good stuff deck and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about it.
You called Tabernacle a "goodstuff" card. Which it is quite the opposite of. It is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks. So I commented that if you can consider such a card "goodstuff" then the term becomes meaningless and ALL cards are goodstuff.
Oh and then you attacked my knowledge of the game. So if you want intelligent, fair, unbiased discourse you should probably not try to call people out in that manner (it's even worse when you're wrong, which you were).
I think a good example of Goodstuff.dec would be your average Bant deck lists. Bant pretty much build itself with the card pool available in those colors. You'll pick the top tier cards for every slot because the colors support it so well.
When I think of goodstuff.dec, I think of a deck that lacks definable synergy in trade for raw power (I think this was mentioned already). I think Top50 auto includes etc..etc..
I'm not sure why people have a problem with this, except that maybe it shows a lack of creativity, which may be true, but deckbuilding is only half the battle.
You called Tabernacle a "goodstuff" card. Which it is quite the opposite of. It is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks. So I commented that if you can consider such a card "goodstuff" then the term becomes meaningless and ALL cards are goodstuff.
Oh and then you attacked my knowledge of the game. So if you want intelligent, fair, unbiased discourse you should probably not try to call people out in that manner (it's even worse when you're wrong, which you were).
Imperial Seal is not a good stuff card because it is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks?
I think a good example of Goodstuff.dec would be your average Bant deck lists. Bant pretty much build itself with the card pool available in those colors. You'll pick the top tier cards for every slot because the colors support it so well.
When I think of goodstuff.dec, I think of a deck that lacks definable synergy in trade for raw power (I think this was mentioned already). I think Top50 auto includes etc..etc..
I'm not sure why people have a problem with this, except that maybe it shows a lack of creativity, which may be true, but deckbuilding is only half the battle.
I have to agree here. My Rafiq deck I think fits this; while I actually tried to go with some synergy (ie; focused on the single creature attack nature of Rafiq, and tried to keep that theme through as much as I could), but I don't think it always lacks creativity. I mean, I think you can try and be creative with it, but I do think Bant exemplifies the idea of goodstuff, and it gets boring, and at least for me, has led me to pull the entire deck apart and start from scratch with something else. Still, it leads to decks that smash face, and can actually be fun if played right.
Imperial Seal is not a good stuff card because it is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks?
I'd argue it is not really a goodstuff card because it isn't in that many decks simply because it is not easily accessible. Goodstuff is based on frequency NOT power.
I'd argue it is not really a goodstuff card because it isn't in that many decks simply because it is not easily accessible. Goodstuff is based on frequency NOT power.
Well there is the hitch, I believe good stuff is good stuff not just common stuff you see alot. Would that make basic lands good stuff you see those everywhere?
Instead of looking at it by its composition, I look at goodstuff.dec by what comes out of the deck when Wizards releases new sets.
If 90% of the cards in your deck can be blanked by Wizards printing slightly more efficient versions of the cards you already play, then you are playing goodstuff.
If the cards in your deck cannot be blanked/replaced by slightly more efficient cards then you are probably not just playing goodstuff.
Example: You are playing a card that costs 5UUU, and wizards prints a card with the same effect for 4UUU, and you replace it, you are playing goodstuff.
If in that same situation, you insist that you continue to play the 5UUU version because it has better art, better flavor text, cooler (but not better) creature type, or because the 4UUU isn't available in foil, etc. you are probably not playing goodstuff.dec
Well there is the hitch, I believe good stuff is good stuff not just common stuff you see alot. Would that make basic lands good stuff you see those everywhere?
Lets not be childish here. We both know that basics would not be goodstuff. If you're going to try to utilize a reduction argument please use it properly.
"Goodstuff" card would be (usually) common, (reasonably) accessable cards that are simply better or easier to use than other options by virtue of power. It is honestly an incredibly stupid and arbitrary term.
Lets not be childish here. We both know that basics would not be goodstuff. If you're going to try to utilize a reduction argument please use it properly.
"Goodstuff" card would be (usually) common, (reasonably) accessable cards that are simply better or easier to use than other options by virtue of power. It is honestly an incredibly stupid and arbitrary term.
I agree about the stupid term part. We just have differing opinions a on what good stuff is. I apologize for my rudeness I just get defensive when I feel like someone is just arbitrarily saying I am wrong. Now that I know your definition of good stuff I propose we agree to disagree. Again I am sorry about the rudeness, but still kind of a fun debate, thanks.
I agree about the stupid term part. We just have differing opinions a on what good stuff is. I apologize for my rudeness I just get defensive when I feel like someone is just arbitrarily saying I am wrong. Now that I know your definition of good stuff I propose we agree to disagree. Again I am sorry about the rudeness, but still kind of a fun debate, thanks.
Oh when I tell someone they are wrong it is usually not arbitrary. People (especially over the internet) get VERY offended when their thoughts or actions are questioned. I happen to just not care about "offending" people. Wrongness must be corrected. Granted I can probably be less of a dick about it, but ah well.
I agree, it is really very difficult to talk about 'goodstuff' in any real sense because the term is nearly meaningless. When 10 separate people can all have different definitions there can be no objectivity, and therefore no discussion.
I'd argue it is not really a goodstuff card because it isn't in that many decks simply because it is not easily accessible. Goodstuff is based on frequency NOT power.
...
Lets not be childish here. We both know that basics would not be goodstuff. If you're going to try to utilize a reduction argument please use it properly.
"Goodstuff" card would be (usually) common, (reasonably) accessable cards that are simply better or easier to use than other options by virtue of power. It is honestly an incredibly stupid and arbitrary term.
First you say goodstuff is based not on power, then later you say goodstuff is better or easier to use because of power.
You contradict yourself, then talk about using arguments properly, then bring up the topic of stupidity. And all of this for what?
The mirror is your friend.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
First you say goodstuff is based not on power, then later you say goodstuff is better or easier to use because of power.
You contradict yourself, then talk about using arguments properly, then bring up the topic of stupidity. And all of this for what?
The mirror is your friend.
Power in comparison to similar cards. Not cards being strong on their own. I like to use a little thing called CONTEXT when I try to prove people wrong. I commend you on trying though, incorrect as you are.
I don't know why people have a hard on for trying to prove me a hypocrite. I do that enough myself, far more accurately.
I'd argue it is not really a goodstuff card because it isn't in that many decks simply because it is not easily accessible. Goodstuff is based on frequency NOT power.
I have to agree to disagree on this.
If we're concerned about 'goodstuff' strictly for pejorative use, then sure, we only care about those things that show up often enough to annoy us. But the idea of sitting around on the forums crafting the definitions of insults to throw at people strikes me as a bit childish.
If you're concerned about whether you're playing 'goodstuff', or how to beat 'goodstuff', or other such strategy (strategy being the purpose of these forums), your understanding of the term should fit that use. For those purposes, yes, Imperial Seal would often be goodstuff because it fits in every black deck, has little to no build-around-me potential, and other such things discussed above. Hardly anyone has it, so? Meet the guy that does and it will be in every one of his black decks. Maybe he'll have a cascade themed deck, or a deck with Spellshift where the card on the top of your library matters, and it won't be strictly 'goodstuff' there, but most of the time it's just going to be in there as goodstuff, and the question of whether the deck is 'goodstuff' as a whole is determined by such concerns.
Does it mean you shouldn't play Imperial Seal? No. It just means that if you're using it because its worst-case use is still good enough for your deck, and the rest of your deck is like that, you're 'goodstuff'.
Power in comparison to similar cards. Not cards being strong on their own. I like to use a little thing called CONTEXT when I try to prove people wrong. I commend you on trying though, incorrect as you are.
I don't know why people have a hard on for trying to prove me a hypocrite. I do that enough myself, far more accurately.
As a reply, I will quote your own words again:
Oh when I tell someone they are wrong it is usually not arbitrary. People (especially over the internet) get VERY offended when their thoughts or actions are questioned. I happen to just not care about "offending" people. Wrongness must be corrected. Granted I can probably be less of a dick about it, but ah well.
By all means continue digging your hole. This is fun watching people too prideful to admit that others caught them with their pants down.
1st step is denial.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
By all means continue digging your hole. This is fun watching people too prideful to admit that others caught them with their pants down.
1st step is denial.
Again, you're quoting me without saying anything. Are you bitter because I insulted you in another thread or something?
I could ignore you, but a person like you would take that as victory. So I sit here debating how to most politely tell you to piss off without getting infracted. I don't exactly appreciate being trolled poorly.
On topic: Has this thread run its course? It seems like nothing else productive is getting said on the "goodstuff" topic as we all just end up repeating ourselves As Nauseam.
I was always under the assumption goodstuff was the term used to describe color staples, stuff like Wrath, Damnation, Swords, Path, and staple artifacts like Sol Ring, Crypt, Divining Top. I don't know how something I considered relatively straightforward and simple could get so mangled.
Again, you're quoting me without saying anything. Are you bitter because I insulted you in another thread or something?
I could ignore you, but a person like you would take that as victory. So I sit here debating how to most politely tell you to piss off without getting infracted. I don't exactly appreciate being trolled poorly.
You just don't want to admit you are on a high horse without the qualifications to be there. You speak about things which would be better off spoken to yourself. You should be aware, for your own sake. And so should everyone reading this thread. That is all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
You just don't want to admit you are on a high horse without the qualifications to be there. You speak about things which would be better off spoken to yourself. You should be aware, for your own sake. And so should everyone reading this thread. That is all.
Big Jivan is good stuff. He just gets wrapped up in debates sometimes and forgets to keep things chill. Kinda like me
Anyway, I believe this question has been answered thoroughly that we don't need to continue troll each other.
You just don't want to admit you are on a high horse without the qualifications to be there. You speak about things which would be better off spoken to yourself. You should be aware, for your own sake. And so should everyone reading this thread. That is all.
That comes off very aggressive for a mtg concept discussing thread. Any time you use "for your own sake" it appears unnecessarily threatening. Calm down and stop being so self-important.
But seriously...did I harm your family in the past? Your hate would be better used in an official "I HATE JIVANMUKTA" thread. In any case, PM me and argue because I'm done in here.
"Goodstuff" is a stupid term used by snobby net deckers that think their original creation with crappy cards is better than using all around "good" or better cards that are more efficient or just overall same effect or better for a cheaper mana cost. The increased frequency of "good stuff" cards can be attributed to good players wanting to play the best spells possible for any given effect/creature/ etc..
That being said, jivanmukta is right. Leave the poor guy alone. You grammar nazi philosophical nitpickers that hide behind computer screens make me sick. Stop arguing and go get a life... Or heavens to god, don't play "good stuff" cause everyone will know you're a good player ....
Does anyone else picture jivanmukta as Sheldon from
Big bang theory? Lol maybe a bit less socially unaware but reading his post in that guts voice makes them much eaiser to digest.
Oh when I tell someone they are wrong it is usually not arbitrary. People (especially over the internet) get VERY offended when their thoughts or actions are questioned. I happen to just not care about "offending" people. Wrongness must be corrected. Granted I can probably be less of a dick about it, but ah well.
.
ar·bi·trar·y: based on whim: based solely on personal wishes, feelings, or perceptions, rather than on objective facts, reasons, or principles.
You gave no reason as to why you thought I was wrong no facts. I just made a statement saying I was wrong looks to be the definition of arbitrary.
I as you can tell just I started reading the forums I was a kitchen table / cards shop player, and I know as much now as I did then. I was asked my definition of a "good stuff deck", and I gave it. You where the one that said I was wrong with no argiment to support your claim. These are the forums, these are the people I am talking to if they are unfamiliar with a card I name it is real easy for them to find out. Then if they disagree with me that great tell me why and lets talk about it. To make a statement like every card is a good stuff card because people don't know a card is ridculous. Bring me a well thought out reason to support your claim and I won't have to tell you how foolish you sound. So instead you just telling people thet are wrong, try telling us your definition of a good stuff deck and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation about it.
You called Tabernacle a "goodstuff" card. Which it is quite the opposite of. It is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks. So I commented that if you can consider such a card "goodstuff" then the term becomes meaningless and ALL cards are goodstuff.
Oh and then you attacked my knowledge of the game. So if you want intelligent, fair, unbiased discourse you should probably not try to call people out in that manner (it's even worse when you're wrong, which you were).
When I think of goodstuff.dec, I think of a deck that lacks definable synergy in trade for raw power (I think this was mentioned already). I think Top50 auto includes etc..etc..
I'm not sure why people have a problem with this, except that maybe it shows a lack of creativity, which may be true, but deckbuilding is only half the battle.
Imperial Seal is not a good stuff card because it is not an easily accessible card that fits into a huge variety of decks?
I have to agree here. My Rafiq deck I think fits this; while I actually tried to go with some synergy (ie; focused on the single creature attack nature of Rafiq, and tried to keep that theme through as much as I could), but I don't think it always lacks creativity. I mean, I think you can try and be creative with it, but I do think Bant exemplifies the idea of goodstuff, and it gets boring, and at least for me, has led me to pull the entire deck apart and start from scratch with something else. Still, it leads to decks that smash face, and can actually be fun if played right.
I'd argue it is not really a goodstuff card because it isn't in that many decks simply because it is not easily accessible. Goodstuff is based on frequency NOT power.
Well there is the hitch, I believe good stuff is good stuff not just common stuff you see alot. Would that make basic lands good stuff you see those everywhere?
If 90% of the cards in your deck can be blanked by Wizards printing slightly more efficient versions of the cards you already play, then you are playing goodstuff.
If the cards in your deck cannot be blanked/replaced by slightly more efficient cards then you are probably not just playing goodstuff.
Example: You are playing a card that costs 5UUU, and wizards prints a card with the same effect for 4UUU, and you replace it, you are playing goodstuff.
If in that same situation, you insist that you continue to play the 5UUU version because it has better art, better flavor text, cooler (but not better) creature type, or because the 4UUU isn't available in foil, etc. you are probably not playing goodstuff.dec
Lets not be childish here. We both know that basics would not be goodstuff. If you're going to try to utilize a reduction argument please use it properly.
"Goodstuff" card would be (usually) common, (reasonably) accessable cards that are simply better or easier to use than other options by virtue of power. It is honestly an incredibly stupid and arbitrary term.
I agree about the stupid term part. We just have differing opinions a on what good stuff is. I apologize for my rudeness I just get defensive when I feel like someone is just arbitrarily saying I am wrong. Now that I know your definition of good stuff I propose we agree to disagree. Again I am sorry about the rudeness, but still kind of a fun debate, thanks.
Oh when I tell someone they are wrong it is usually not arbitrary. People (especially over the internet) get VERY offended when their thoughts or actions are questioned. I happen to just not care about "offending" people. Wrongness must be corrected. Granted I can probably be less of a dick about it, but ah well.
I agree, it is really very difficult to talk about 'goodstuff' in any real sense because the term is nearly meaningless. When 10 separate people can all have different definitions there can be no objectivity, and therefore no discussion.
If you say so.
First you say goodstuff is based not on power, then later you say goodstuff is better or easier to use because of power.
You contradict yourself, then talk about using arguments properly, then bring up the topic of stupidity. And all of this for what?
The mirror is your friend.
-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT
Power in comparison to similar cards. Not cards being strong on their own. I like to use a little thing called CONTEXT when I try to prove people wrong. I commend you on trying though, incorrect as you are.
I don't know why people have a hard on for trying to prove me a hypocrite. I do that enough myself, far more accurately.
I have to agree to disagree on this.
If we're concerned about 'goodstuff' strictly for pejorative use, then sure, we only care about those things that show up often enough to annoy us. But the idea of sitting around on the forums crafting the definitions of insults to throw at people strikes me as a bit childish.
If you're concerned about whether you're playing 'goodstuff', or how to beat 'goodstuff', or other such strategy (strategy being the purpose of these forums), your understanding of the term should fit that use. For those purposes, yes, Imperial Seal would often be goodstuff because it fits in every black deck, has little to no build-around-me potential, and other such things discussed above. Hardly anyone has it, so? Meet the guy that does and it will be in every one of his black decks. Maybe he'll have a cascade themed deck, or a deck with Spellshift where the card on the top of your library matters, and it won't be strictly 'goodstuff' there, but most of the time it's just going to be in there as goodstuff, and the question of whether the deck is 'goodstuff' as a whole is determined by such concerns.
Does it mean you shouldn't play Imperial Seal? No. It just means that if you're using it because its worst-case use is still good enough for your deck, and the rest of your deck is like that, you're 'goodstuff'.
As a reply, I will quote your own words again:
By all means continue digging your hole. This is fun watching people too prideful to admit that others caught them with their pants down.
1st step is denial.
-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT
Again, you're quoting me without saying anything. Are you bitter because I insulted you in another thread or something?
I could ignore you, but a person like you would take that as victory. So I sit here debating how to most politely tell you to piss off without getting infracted. I don't exactly appreciate being trolled poorly.
On topic: Has this thread run its course? It seems like nothing else productive is getting said on the "goodstuff" topic as we all just end up repeating ourselves As Nauseam.
You just don't want to admit you are on a high horse without the qualifications to be there. You speak about things which would be better off spoken to yourself. You should be aware, for your own sake. And so should everyone reading this thread. That is all.
-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT
Big Jivan is good stuff. He just gets wrapped up in debates sometimes and forgets to keep things chill. Kinda like me
Anyway, I believe this question has been answered thoroughly that we don't need to continue troll each other.
That comes off very aggressive for a mtg concept discussing thread. Any time you use "for your own sake" it appears unnecessarily threatening. Calm down and stop being so self-important.
But seriously...did I harm your family in the past? Your hate would be better used in an official "I HATE JIVANMUKTA" thread. In any case, PM me and argue because I'm done in here.
That being said, jivanmukta is right. Leave the poor guy alone. You grammar nazi philosophical nitpickers that hide behind computer screens make me sick. Stop arguing and go get a life... Or heavens to god, don't play "good stuff" cause everyone will know you're a good player ....
/rant
Big bang theory? Lol maybe a bit less socially unaware but reading his post in that guts voice makes them much eaiser to digest.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
ar·bi·trar·y: based on whim: based solely on personal wishes, feelings, or perceptions, rather than on objective facts, reasons, or principles.
You gave no reason as to why you thought I was wrong no facts. I just made a statement saying I was wrong looks to be the definition of arbitrary.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Keep on being the classy fellow you are.
You're so brave, fighting against the oppression of the RC.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch