- The most well-known build is probably the mass land destruction with fatties and elrazi (Kozilek, Butcher of Truth)... (this is probably the most hated one)
- Then we have the chaos build, suspending stuff like Hive Mind, Confusion in the ranks, Knowledge pool, coin flipping cards, ...
- Perhaps a wizard tribal build (but how many good red wizards do we have? Anarchist and Nin, the Pain Artist are the first that come to mind.
- ...
Anybody else got an idea?
What version would you like the most to play, and to play against, and why?
i hate to be negative to someones goals , but no matter, what unless youre playing with an established meta that knows youre just playing jhoria as a chaos general, or something of the like, then any random group you play with will instantly see you as a huge threat and hate you out as soon as possible. the same thing happens with all "tier 1" generals little you say will change peoples opinions that they've already formed about certain generals
5 Color Cromat with tons of tutoring that doesn't reveal the card. Play a few classic playing cards, a couple Uno Draw 4s (Ancestral Recall eat your heart out), some basic Pokemon for defense, a Get Out of Jail Free card, and have assembling all five pieces of Exodia be your win condition. People will flip because EXODIA!? IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO SUMMON HIM!
Yea, I kinda figured that out... play with a hated general - means you gonna receive hate :p.
The thing is, that I have the same playgroup I always play with (3-4) people (friends), and they don't have the reaction to kill me (or anybody else) if they see a feared general. Unless of course you suspend a MLD or Worldfire spell, then they're going to bash four turns and the spell probably would never see the board.
So no random playgroup ^^, would that make a difference?
i hate to be negative to someones goals , but no matter, what unless youre playing with an established meta that knows youre just playing jhoria as a chaos general, or something of the like, then any random group you play with will instantly see you as a huge threat and hate you out as soon as possible. the same thing happens with all "tier 1" generals little you say will change peoples opinions that they've already formed about certain generals
i play timewalk joira and people gunned her even before they know what she did, my only wincon in the deck is a psychosis crawler with teferi's puzzle box
i considered playing her for a while but ended up setting the idea aside after my own hated general experience, fairly new to the format i built arcum dagsson just as a artifact goodstuff deck.
i barely knew the format at the time, but generally when i joined in and they saw arcum the group would ask if i had disk, lattice, and forge in my deck, i replied yes as those all seemed fairly standard to artifact goodstuff, so i had included them, none of the groups that asked allowed me to play with them.
being new to edh and even fairly new to magic in general, i didnt even know the combo between the three until one time when someone asked and tried to remove me from the game, someone else stood up for me and said if i could get that combo off with all the other players there, i deserved to win, that was the first time i even noticed that particular combo, i lost the game horribly as the one who tried to kick me focused ever single card he had on me and i was out first (the deck was far from tuned)
but more on topic, if you have a group that will let you play her without a huge effort to murder you first, she has amazing potential as a non MLD/Eldrazi general, chaos decks are always fun and shes in the two best colors for it, Hivemind + pacts would be a pretty silly alt wincons
you could always just go for her normal "CAST ALLLLL THE BIG SPELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" strategy while forgoing MLD and Eldrazi, shes in great arifact deck colors as well, she could even do a decent punisher deck with blue card draw and support. jhoira is a awesome general with tons of potential as long as your group desent kill you three minutes into the game.
5 Color Cromat with tons of tutoring that doesn't reveal the card. Play a few classic playing cards, a couple Uno Draw 4s (Ancestral Recall eat your heart out), some basic Pokemon for defense, a Get Out of Jail Free card, and have assembling all five pieces of Exodia be your win condition. People will flip because EXODIA!? IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO SUMMON HIM!
Well I'm generally playing against goodstuff decks (not really a theme, no tokens, no tribes, no... nothing. Just goodstuff and lots of interactions with the graveyard :p). Makes me a bit sad actually, now I think about it.
I wonder how Jhoira would be good with artifacts, I can name a few good ones, but I wouldn't know how to win with it (except from maybe combo).
Hivemind + the pacts, hehe seems so lame to win xD.
I agree blue and red are the best colors for chaos, but is that fun for other players too?
Grab their stuff and swing at there own side.
I wonder if I could do something controllish, Darksteel Myr with a Worldslayer (hey those are both artifacts! ;))
Question is... how do I pump that little myr his power so he could actually swing for some damage. Unless I would use Darksteel Colossus with Worldslayer :link:.. That would change things :D.
I always thought I could do something with 'proliferate', but sadly it add's counters instead of removing them too.
What would be more annoying MLD or those extra turns...
EDIT:
I wonder if we could go the blink-route with this one... blinking in a Bogardan Hellkite every turn seems fun !
We don't have access to white or green then though (the 'better' blink collors) but this shouldn't be a very big problem I think.. Opinions?
EDIT:
I wonder if we could go the blink-route with this one... blinking in a Bogardan Hellkite every turn seems fun !
We don't have access to white or green then though (the 'better' blink collors) but this shouldn't be a very big problem I think.. Opinions?
self blink seems hard with no white, but the newly added conjurer's closet plus cards like erratic portal could make it possible, no venser, the sojourner in a blink deck makes me a sad panda though, as far as tons of extra turns vs MLD id rather have MLD used on me any day, watching someone play a game by themselves is a bore, so is having no mana, but stuff like artifact ramp can get around that at least
5 Color Cromat with tons of tutoring that doesn't reveal the card. Play a few classic playing cards, a couple Uno Draw 4s (Ancestral Recall eat your heart out), some basic Pokemon for defense, a Get Out of Jail Free card, and have assembling all five pieces of Exodia be your win condition. People will flip because EXODIA!? IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO SUMMON HIM!
I knew a guy who utilized a lot of time magic with her. Especially some of the harder or higher costing time spells. He could wreak havoc in a game with some of the things he did with her!
Hey Revenant, glad you joined us in this little conversation :D.
Always nice to hear other people their experience, thoughts about things ^^.
With 'time magic' do you mean Time Warp, Time Stretch and stuff like that? How did he win then, except from taking these extra turns? Was it combo or beatdown, or an other possibility?
What choice are you thinking about?
The artifact one doesn't have to be degenerate...
So...
Blue could offer us the tutors we need for the artifacts (I'm planning to build this more or less on a budget), some card drawing, ..
Red could clear the board, destroy some artifacts we don't like, throw some fireballs perhaps (I don't know just guessing here ).
I like a variety of chaos effects you can use to redirect spells and combat away from you. Basically, suspend something big and nasty, and for the next 4 turns everyone's swinging away trying to stop you while you redirect all that hate around the table away from you.
How do you redirect the combat damage then?
Thought only white was capable of that.
Oh oh, chaos taking the lead!
I hope that rtr will bring us some more izzet goodies!
Can't wait for new spoilers!
Finally a chance to play Worldfire!!
That card was just made for Jhoira ^^.
Any Jhoira players themself who wanna comment on this one?
Are there still any Jhoira players left?
EDIT:
Everything is more or less getting balanced...
Any opinions 'why' did choose that particular choice?
I went for the artifact route. Why?
Because it's something different, haven't seen before (I think/hope).
It let's you take an original route on Jhoira.
I already build a chaos deck with her at the helm in the past, but didn't really have a win-con.
And I like to win from to time (not always, just once in a while, with an amazing cool move).
To bad there isn't alot of ways to get our artifacts back from our graveyard when they die (or maybe... well ok there're a couple)
And how often do you see a deck that plays worldslayer? (except from Sapling of Colfenor maybe) ^^.
Oh and I still didn't have an artifact deck yet (had a glissa in the past). I needed to include red, but didn't wanna go mono-red (sorry Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer, so that's pretty much it, why I choose the artifact route =).
EDIT:
Does anybody knows any "hidden gems" for Jhoira?
I already checked the hidden gem thread, but didn't really find anything.
Thanks in advance!
My initial concept for Jhoira was to build a storm deck. Build up a critical mass of suspended spells, manipulate them with cards that juggle time counters, and then pile up more storm spells (e.g. Brain Freeze, Mind's Desire) when they are cast. Is this considered griefing?
If you want to go the way of storm then Eye of the Storm is a card, also if i were going to do storm i would want a bunch of dragons and red rituals for Dragonstrom. So even if your storm does not work you still have a bunch of dragons.
That being said I piloted Jhoria for about two years and suspending fatties and LD are really her best strategy. With Timecrafting or Clockspinning and suspending in response to removal no need for the four turn wait while people beat on you.
Edit:
My win % went way up with her when I decided that she actually cost 5-7 mana not the 3 that the card says and to only suspend stuff in response to removal or at Eot of my opponents turn.
If you want to go the way of storm then Eye of the Storm is a card, also if i were going to do storm i would want a bunch of dragons and red rituals for Dragonstrom. So even if your storm does not work you still have a bunch of dragons.
That being said I piloted Jhoria for about two years and suspending fatties and LD are really her best strategy. With Timecrafting or Clockspinning and suspending in response to removal no need for the four turn wait while people beat on you.
Edit:
My win % went way up with her when I decided that she actually cost 5-7 mana not the 3 that the card says and to only suspend stuff in response to removal or at Eot of my opponents turn.
Storm seems a little bit difficult to build, but looks like a really fun idea!
Would the proliferate actually work on the cards that are suspended?
I think you no longer play Jhoira paradox?
How was your playgroup/meta against the deck (positive, negative, ..)?
The mass land destruction, eldrazi, all those scary things...
Against what sort of decks/generals have you been playing then?
How did you manage to hold them off? (if you can't get a hold of clockspinning, or anything that removes counters faster).
Do you still have the decklist here on mtgsalvation?
Seems like the MLD is the way to go with Jhoira, but if I wanna build Jhoira I'm afraid I will have to exclude those expensive eldrazi (ulamog & kozilek), but go for the cheaper ones instead.
The poll so far:
Chaos taking the lead, artifact and other close for the second place and combo standing at the last place. I'm still curious what people their idea's might be for 'other', please share people!
Storm seems a little bit difficult to build, but looks like a really fun idea!
Would the proliferate actually work on the cards that are suspended?
I think you no longer play Jhoira paradox?
How was your playgroup/meta against the deck (positive, negative, ..)?
The mass land destruction, eldrazi, all those scary things...
Against what sort of decks/generals have you been playing then?
How did you manage to hold them off? (if you can't get a hold of clockspinning, or anything that removes counters faster).
Do you still have the decklist here on mtgsalvation?
Seems like the MLD is the way to go with Jhoira, but if I wanna build Jhoira I'm afraid I will have to exclude those expensive eldrazi (ulamog & kozilek), but go for the cheaper ones instead.
The poll so far:
Chaos taking the lead, artifact and other close for the second place and combo standing at the last place. I'm still curious what people their idea's might be for 'other', please share people!
Ill try to answer the questions in the order they are posted.
First proliferate does not work with suspended cards because they are in not technically on the battlefield they are in the exile zone. I no longer play Jhoria because after awhile the meta adjusts and she gets hated off/people ask you to make other decks/not play her. Despite this I would actually consider my metas experience with jhora to be a positive one because she pushes other players to run removal and lower cmc threats because if they dont they just loose. In my meta I am one of two players who plays fairly dedicated control lists. The rest of the meta is either Aggroy, Voltronish with one or two combo decks and some random decks like planeswalkers.dec or goodstuff.dec. As for holding them off good use of counterspells, wrathing often and some times you just cant. Word of advice dont cast joria unless you can win off using her to suspend stuff. I unfortunately dismantled the deck at the end of last school year, but I could whip up a deck list if you want to see it.
The good thing about MLD is that it is fairly inexpensive and can attack/punish people who spend a lot of money on their mana bases/players who overextend.
How did you handle the threats like voltron decks then? Weren't they faster then your suspended spells?
I wonder if there's a way to make a 'fun', fairly balanced deck of Jhoira, no MLD (or perhaps only worldfire) so you can still play jhoira, be able to win games, but not get hated off the table because of the mld and eldrazi.
EDIT:
Ok, because chaos is taking the lead..
Any suggestions? How does a chaos deck defends himself in the begining?
Anybody experience with a chaos deck?
Maybe this is just me, but I feel like playing her in an artifact deck or something just for her colors seems bad. If you're not going to make good use of her ability, why play her (except for that bumpin' art)? You'll end up drawing far too much hate without even doing anything remotely threatening.
That being said, a UR Wizard tribal deck sounds kind of fun, but even then I think I'd rather have it piloted by Nin, the Pain Artist instead of Jhoira because I think the card draw would lend itself better to a controlish Wizard deck, and because she won't be insta-hated at any table you ever sit down at.
How did you handle the threats like voltron decks then? Weren't they faster then your suspended spells?
I wonder if there's a way to make a 'fun', fairly balanced deck of Jhoira, no MLD (or perhaps only worldfire) so you can still play jhoira, be able to win games, but not get hated off the table because of the mld and eldrazi.
EDIT:
Ok, because chaos is taking the lead..
Any suggestions? How does a chaos deck defends himself in the begining?
Anybody experience with a chaos deck?
Voltron decks are a pain and sometimes you have to take your lumps, but well timed counterspells and wraths are your friends. Also sometimes make an alliance and take second so that other times you can take first.
In my experience both niv and jhoria get hated off the table, if you want to make a 'fun' U/R deck go for tibor and lumia or nin, the pain artist.
Well suspending stuff like Darksteel Colossus and Darskteel Forge, Spine of Ish Ash..
Artifacts that cost a lot of mana to play, wouldn't it be nice to get these into play by 'cheating' with Jhoira?
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Neheb
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- The most well-known build is probably the mass land destruction with fatties and elrazi (Kozilek, Butcher of Truth)... (this is probably the most hated one)
- Then we have the chaos build, suspending stuff like Hive Mind, Confusion in the ranks, Knowledge pool, coin flipping cards, ...
- Perhaps a wizard tribal build (but how many good red wizards do we have? Anarchist and Nin, the Pain Artist are the first that come to mind.
- ...
Anybody else got an idea?
What version would you like the most to play, and to play against, and why?
Would you be able to win (without eldrazi and MLD)? Just suspending fatties (Bogardan Hellkite, Inkwell Leviathan, ..), some fire (Chain Reaction, Blasphemous Act, Earthquake) and perhaps some counters (Suffocating Blast, Negate, Dissipate)
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
The thing is, that I have the same playgroup I always play with (3-4) people (friends), and they don't have the reaction to kill me (or anybody else) if they see a feared general. Unless of course you suspend a MLD or Worldfire spell, then they're going to bash four turns and the spell probably would never see the board.
So no random playgroup ^^, would that make a difference?
Do you play Jhoira yourself Grace? ^^
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
i barely knew the format at the time, but generally when i joined in and they saw arcum the group would ask if i had disk, lattice, and forge in my deck, i replied yes as those all seemed fairly standard to artifact goodstuff, so i had included them, none of the groups that asked allowed me to play with them.
being new to edh and even fairly new to magic in general, i didnt even know the combo between the three until one time when someone asked and tried to remove me from the game, someone else stood up for me and said if i could get that combo off with all the other players there, i deserved to win, that was the first time i even noticed that particular combo, i lost the game horribly as the one who tried to kick me focused ever single card he had on me and i was out first (the deck was far from tuned)
but more on topic, if you have a group that will let you play her without a huge effort to murder you first, she has amazing potential as a non MLD/Eldrazi general, chaos decks are always fun and shes in the two best colors for it, Hivemind + pacts would be a pretty silly alt wincons
you could always just go for her normal "CAST ALLLLL THE BIG SPELLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" strategy while forgoing MLD and Eldrazi, shes in great arifact deck colors as well, she could even do a decent punisher deck with blue card draw and support. jhoira is a awesome general with tons of potential as long as your group desent kill you three minutes into the game.
I wonder how Jhoira would be good with artifacts, I can name a few good ones, but I wouldn't know how to win with it (except from maybe combo).
Hivemind + the pacts, hehe seems so lame to win xD.
I agree blue and red are the best colors for chaos, but is that fun for other players too?
Grab their stuff and swing at there own side.
I wonder if I could do something controllish, Darksteel Myr with a Worldslayer (hey those are both artifacts! ;))
Question is... how do I pump that little myr his power so he could actually swing for some damage. Unless I would use Darksteel Colossus with Worldslayer :link:.. That would change things :D.
I always thought I could do something with 'proliferate', but sadly it add's counters instead of removing them too.
What would be more annoying MLD or those extra turns...
EDIT:
I wonder if we could go the blink-route with this one... blinking in a Bogardan Hellkite every turn seems fun !
We don't have access to white or green then though (the 'better' blink collors) but this shouldn't be a very big problem I think.. Opinions?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
self blink seems hard with no white, but the newly added conjurer's closet plus cards like erratic portal could make it possible, no venser, the sojourner in a blink deck makes me a sad panda though, as far as tons of extra turns vs MLD id rather have MLD used on me any day, watching someone play a game by themselves is a bore, so is having no mana, but stuff like artifact ramp can get around that at least
Always nice to hear other people their experience, thoughts about things ^^.
With 'time magic' do you mean Time Warp, Time Stretch and stuff like that? How did he win then, except from taking these extra turns? Was it combo or beatdown, or an other possibility?
Well for the blink we have Equilibrium, Crystal Shard, Conjurer's Closet, Erratic Portal, ... and perhaps some others (which I can't recall).
Seems like two of the four are fetchable with good old Drift of Phantasms!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Oh a tribal wizard version was another option for the poll, but don't know if you can add it, and how.
If anybody knows.. feel free to share!
EDIT:
Seems like the artifact version is taking the lead!
Suggestions people?
Here are some of mine
1 Master Transmuter
1 Worldslayer
1 Darksteel Myr
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Blightsteel Colossus (darksteel's dark/bad brother)
1 Darksteel Brute
1 Darksteel Gargoyle
1 Darksteel Juggernaut
1 Darksteel Sentinel
1 Creepy Doll
1 Manor Gargoyle
1 Myr Matrix (good with infinite mana)
1 That Which Was Taken
1 Fabricate
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Reshape
1 Treasure Mage
Seems like a lot of darksteels!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
What choice are you thinking about?
The artifact one doesn't have to be degenerate...
So...
Blue could offer us the tutors we need for the artifacts (I'm planning to build this more or less on a budget), some card drawing, ..
Red could clear the board, destroy some artifacts we don't like, throw some fireballs perhaps (I don't know just guessing here ).
Oohh idea... Proteus Staff!
EDIT:
The people who say 'other', please feel free to share what you guys/girls are thinking about!
I'm curious actually ^^
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Glissa, the Traitor, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, The Mimeoplasm
Thought only white was capable of that.
Oh oh, chaos taking the lead!
I hope that rtr will bring us some more izzet goodies!
Can't wait for new spoilers!
Finally a chance to play Worldfire!!
That card was just made for Jhoira ^^.
Any Jhoira players themself who wanna comment on this one?
Are there still any Jhoira players left?
EDIT:
Everything is more or less getting balanced...
Any opinions 'why' did choose that particular choice?
I went for the artifact route. Why?
Because it's something different, haven't seen before (I think/hope).
It let's you take an original route on Jhoira.
I already build a chaos deck with her at the helm in the past, but didn't really have a win-con.
And I like to win from to time (not always, just once in a while, with an amazing cool move).
To bad there isn't alot of ways to get our artifacts back from our graveyard when they die (or maybe... well ok there're a couple)
And how often do you see a deck that plays worldslayer? (except from Sapling of Colfenor maybe) ^^.
Oh and I still didn't have an artifact deck yet (had a glissa in the past). I needed to include red, but didn't wanna go mono-red (sorry Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer, so that's pretty much it, why I choose the artifact route =).
EDIT:
Does anybody knows any "hidden gems" for Jhoira?
I already checked the hidden gem thread, but didn't really find anything.
Thanks in advance!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
That being said I piloted Jhoria for about two years and suspending fatties and LD are really her best strategy. With Timecrafting or Clockspinning and suspending in response to removal no need for the four turn wait while people beat on you.
Edit:
My win % went way up with her when I decided that she actually cost 5-7 mana not the 3 that the card says and to only suspend stuff in response to removal or at Eot of my opponents turn.
Storm seems a little bit difficult to build, but looks like a really fun idea!
Would the proliferate actually work on the cards that are suspended?
I think you no longer play Jhoira paradox?
How was your playgroup/meta against the deck (positive, negative, ..)?
The mass land destruction, eldrazi, all those scary things...
Against what sort of decks/generals have you been playing then?
How did you manage to hold them off? (if you can't get a hold of clockspinning, or anything that removes counters faster).
Do you still have the decklist here on mtgsalvation?
Seems like the MLD is the way to go with Jhoira, but if I wanna build Jhoira I'm afraid I will have to exclude those expensive eldrazi (ulamog & kozilek), but go for the cheaper ones instead.
The poll so far:
Chaos taking the lead, artifact and other close for the second place and combo standing at the last place. I'm still curious what people their idea's might be for 'other', please share people!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Ill try to answer the questions in the order they are posted.
First proliferate does not work with suspended cards because they are in not technically on the battlefield they are in the exile zone. I no longer play Jhoria because after awhile the meta adjusts and she gets hated off/people ask you to make other decks/not play her. Despite this I would actually consider my metas experience with jhora to be a positive one because she pushes other players to run removal and lower cmc threats because if they dont they just loose. In my meta I am one of two players who plays fairly dedicated control lists. The rest of the meta is either Aggroy, Voltronish with one or two combo decks and some random decks like planeswalkers.dec or goodstuff.dec. As for holding them off good use of counterspells, wrathing often and some times you just cant. Word of advice dont cast joria unless you can win off using her to suspend stuff. I unfortunately dismantled the deck at the end of last school year, but I could whip up a deck list if you want to see it.
The good thing about MLD is that it is fairly inexpensive and can attack/punish people who spend a lot of money on their mana bases/players who overextend.
A couple more card suggustions:
rift elemental
Blightsteel Colossus
I wonder if there's a way to make a 'fun', fairly balanced deck of Jhoira, no MLD (or perhaps only worldfire) so you can still play jhoira, be able to win games, but not get hated off the table because of the mld and eldrazi.
EDIT:
Ok, because chaos is taking the lead..
Any suggestions? How does a chaos deck defends himself in the begining?
Anybody experience with a chaos deck?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
That being said, a UR Wizard tribal deck sounds kind of fun, but even then I think I'd rather have it piloted by Nin, the Pain Artist instead of Jhoira because I think the card draw would lend itself better to a controlish Wizard deck, and because she won't be insta-hated at any table you ever sit down at.
Voltron decks are a pain and sometimes you have to take your lumps, but well timed counterspells and wraths are your friends. Also sometimes make an alliance and take second so that other times you can take first.
In my experience both niv and jhoria get hated off the table, if you want to make a 'fun' U/R deck go for tibor and lumia or nin, the pain artist.
Artifacts that cost a lot of mana to play, wouldn't it be nice to get these into play by 'cheating' with Jhoira?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris