... in a dedicated permission/control multiplayer EDH deck?
I currently have 10 in my Damia, Sage of Stone deck, and I'd be uncomfortable going any lower than that, but I notice that most others that I've seen tend to run something more like 5-8. I'll probably just have to figure out what I'm most comfortable with at the end of the day through extensive playtesting, but I wanted to get an idea where most others stand.
Ive found going over the 5-9 range makes my group hate me with a passion....so im constantly changing them in and out in my teferi deck. But I make a note to not go over 9
If I had such a deck, I'd run Spell Crumple, Hinder, Rewind, and Dissipate. As was discussed in Off-topic, I can't grok most of the counterspells that exist. I can grok the 4 I listed though. Plus, I'd rather bounce my opponent's stuff and cost them tempo that way. /shrug
I play a Riku Control-Combo Build, which runs 12 dedicated/functional counterspells. Aside from this, I also run the ff. cards w/c sometimes act as functional countermagic
5-9 is the sweet spot on which I tend to settle, whether or not my deck is control-oriented. The most commonly used counterspells for me are, in no particular order:
In my GAA4, I have maybe 8 or 9. When I first built it, I put in a ton of counters, but found myself cutting most of them for plain ol' white removal. Not all counter spells are good in EDH, and running too many clogs the deck.
It depends on the purpose of the control. In my Sharuum deck, for example, I run 4 counters, and use them to protect my board presence more than to shut down other players. In Edric, however, counters are virtually my only answers to anything. Because of this, I have somewhere between 20-30 of them depending on how you're counting. It really just varies based on what the deck needs.
Casual Cube EDH: UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness BGW Ghave's Garden WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count Vintage: URWelder WUBRG Dredge Kitchen Table: B Zombies in Your Head
I'm usually in the 1-5 range. I only use them to stop too silly of things from happening, or to let my silly things resolve. I don't generally try and hose people with them too badly.
running ~15 in teferi currently. Sort of depends what you're trying to do. My teferi always ends up with a huge board presence, so stopping wraths is crucial. Also it has a hard time dealing with hexproof/shroud so those often need countering too. Since it tends to make itself a target, counters become pretty necessary.
Merieke has 5-9 I believe. The Mimeoplasm has just a few, basically to either protect my graveyard or protect him once he's about to swing for the win. Thraximundar has just a few as well, although in that deck I might take them out for more fun spells.
I just proxied up a Talrand mono blue control deck with 25 counter spells. It has insofar won 66% of the 3 games it was in, but it IS the only "real" blue deck in my meta.
Can't say I'm surprised that thus far the majority of voters voted for 5-9. I am, however, very surprised to see so many people voting for 0-4 counterspells, particularly if they do indeed mean that they run that few in dedicated control decks. Seems very low to me, but I suppose that's why I asked :p.
My meta and I aren't into them so much. Occasionally we'll run redirection or some of the wacky ones, like Spelljack, but control usually takes the form of white or black removal, almost always paired with aggro.
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2UURRniv mizzet, the firemind endless fiery mind wheels of death 3WRjor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever 3RRzirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers 4:SymRG::SymRG:wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable 2WUkangee, aerie keeper birds 1UBRjeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
Can't say I'm surprised that thus far the majority of voters voted for 5-9. I am, however, very surprised to see so many people voting for 0-4 counterspells, particularly if they do indeed mean that they run that few in dedicated control decks. Seems very low to me, but I suppose that's why I asked :p.
Quote from The Poll »
How many counterspells do you run...
0-4
5-9
10-14
15+
This is why people are answering 0-4.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
Title fail, I guess. I always assumed "..." meant "read on," and it seemed pretty ostentatious to type out full sentence in the title field. I went back and bolded my qualifier in the OP. Maybe that'll help.
I run six counters in my Esper control deck. If playtesting tells me I need more then I'll add a seventh, but I doubt I'd add much more than that. I like to use my counterspells more defensively. I don't care if someone drops a hasty Malignus because it could just as easily kick my opponents' teeth in and if it comes my way well...that's why I run plenty of kill spells. If someone wants to play Darksteel Forge (a card that threatens the entire table equally) or someone aims a Return to Dust at the Propaganda and Ghostly Prison that are keeping the Token Armies of Hell at bay then I'll drop a counter. I don't run many because I don't wanna have to use many.
Plus, it doesn't hurt that I run spot removal (for any and all permanents), sweepers, discard, 'yard hate, Propaganda effects, and Aven Mindcensor so I have a lot of ways to interact with things before I have to fall back on the catch-all of Counterspell.
Honestly it depends on the deck. Dedicated control? I probably run 10, maybe a few more. A multi colored deck that isn't focused on control (Rafiq for example) maybe five.
I currently have 10 in my Damia, Sage of Stone deck, and I'd be uncomfortable going any lower than that, but I notice that most others that I've seen tend to run something more like 5-8. I'll probably just have to figure out what I'm most comfortable with at the end of the day through extensive playtesting, but I wanted to get an idea where most others stand.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Force of Will
Pact of Negation
Foil
Rewind
Cryptic Command
Forbid
Dissipate
Hinder
Venser, Shaper Savant
That's from Grimgrin, and off the top of my head (tweaked it recently, may be a bit off). So..9 I believe, and that's in a combo deck.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Venser, Shaper Savant
Cryptic Command
Reiterate
Most of the time I use them for other purposes.
I usually play as the "police" of our games, ensuring that no-one combos out too early for anyone to stop.
Legacy:
UWR Miracles
BUG Shardless Sultai
EDH:
GWUDerevi, Master of SynergyUWG
RWBAlesha, Legacies and RelicsBWR
0R0Daretti, More than Meets the Eye0R0
WGSelvala, Elf StaxGW
RUGRiku of Infinite InvocationsGUR
- Cryptic Command (okay, I lied -- this is listed first because it's my favorite, and an auto-include in all U or U/X lists I make)
- Spell Crumple
- Hinder
- Arcane Denial
- Forbid
- Dissipate
- Memory Lapse
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
Thank you to Rivenor for this awesome banner!
Palladia-Mors of {The Spirit of EDH}
EDH
WLinvala, Queen of the AngelsW
WUThe Prison of the Grand ArbiterUW [Primer]
URNiv-Mizzet, Handcycling ComboRU
UTalrand, Drake-Slinging to VictoryU
WUGDerevi, Tactical ShufflingGUW
BCao Cao, Discard Stax of Absolute MiseryB
Mana Drain
Snapcaster Mage (counters stuff sometimes!)
Bant Charm (in rafiq)
Spell Crumple
Cryptic Command
Glen Elendra Archmage
Venser, Shaper Savant
Desertion
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
EDH:
UR Niv-Mizzet's Madness
BGW Ghave's Garden
WUBRG Karona's Chaos
Retired: Too damn many to count
Vintage:
URWelder
WUBRG Dredge
Kitchen Table:
B Zombies in Your Head
If that makes any sense.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Merieke has 5-9 I believe. The Mimeoplasm has just a few, basically to either protect my graveyard or protect him once he's about to swing for the win. Thraximundar has just a few as well, although in that deck I might take them out for more fun spells.
Most of my decks have less, 5-8 sounds right.
Also, depending on how you want to count stuff like Misdirection/Trickbind/Remand that number changes.
Kemba | Linvala | Talrand | Geth | Krenko | Zada | Patron of the Orochi | Medomai | Athreos | Gisela | Trostani | Nin | Silumgar | Kaervek | Jarad | Xenagos | Sydri | Narset | Roon | Zurgo | Ghave | Marath | Uril | Tasigur | Animar | Riku | Riku | Sek'Kuar | Cromat
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
3WR jor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever
3RR zirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers
4:SymRG::SymRG: wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable
2WU kangee, aerie keeper birds
1UBR jeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
3UWR numot, the devastator of [the spirit of edh]
This is why people are answering 0-4.
Decks:
GWMidrangeGW
URBurning VengeanceUR
EDH:
URNin, the Pain ArtistUR
BROlivia VoldarenBR
WIsamaru, Hound of KondaW
RGWRith, the AwakenerRGW
WUBRGCromatWUBRG
Title fail, I guess. I always assumed "..." meant "read on," and it seemed pretty ostentatious to type out full sentence in the title field. I went back and bolded my qualifier in the OP. Maybe that'll help.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Plus, it doesn't hurt that I run spot removal (for any and all permanents), sweepers, discard, 'yard hate, Propaganda effects, and Aven Mindcensor so I have a lot of ways to interact with things before I have to fall back on the catch-all of Counterspell.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
Delay
Counterspell
Dissipate
Hinder
Last Word
Cryptic Command
Force of Will
I've considered adding another one or two, though I've cut down from the original 10 I ran.
Cryptic Command
Desertion
Mana Drain
Overwhelming Intellect
Spell Crumple
In this format, I think counters need to do something else than just be a hard counter. Otherwise, it's just a 1-for-1.