I thought there was a Scd for this but i cant find it.
In regards to an Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck where you have lots of mana, this card looks good. You can play it early and let it grow, or have it be huge late game and possibly one shot people with mana doublers. This will get huge and eat people. Worse case scenario, if it eats a removal spell, it is one less spell that deals with my other threats. Thoughts? I was thinking about this card since i opened it at my fnm yesterday
Ps sorry if theres typos as im typing from my phone.
I've put played it in my Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck for a year now and still think it deserves a spot. It's great to dump mana into, and the longer it sticks around the better it becomes, and with things like Lightning Greaves and Eldrazi Monument it happens a fair amount. It gets HUGE and has trample. Perfect!
Oh he's good. Even better in Stonebrow. Pretty much the essence of a good threat in EDH; you either cast him for next to nothing early in the game and he becomes an inexpensive, must-answer threat (as Phil correctly states) or you cast him in the late game as an un-chump-able, inevitable win-con.
Every time I draw him, I'm satisfied; the sign of a great threat.
It's in my Rosheen Meanderer deck, mostly because it's a hydra. I like hydras. It's an X-spell, too, so I guess there's some synergy there.
I think most players won't be super-excited by this guy, though. He's a big trampler, sometimes, in the color with plenty of big tramplers -- and you're definitely paying for the privilege of big numbers. He's sort of mana efficient, in the sense that you can let him passively accrue counters, but he's never going to see power-to-cost ratios that Lord of Extinction regularly enjoys.
I guess that, as a straight-ahead threat, this guy's serviceable, but I don't win many games of EDH on straight-ahead threats, especially ones that are time- or mana-intensive. If I was looking to play srs magical cardz, he'd be on my list of things to cut. (Of course, I wouldn't be playing Rosheen, either, in that case.)
I love the card -- I like that it's splashy and threatening and you and your opponents can see it getting bigger very turn. I just don't think it's a good card, in the sense that no one's ever going to see it and think, "Man, you know what I need to push my deck into the next level? Hydras."
It's in my Rosheen Meanderer deck, mostly because it's a hydra. I like hydras. It's an X-spell, too, so I guess there's some synergy there.
I think most players won't be super-excited by this guy, though. He's a big trampler, sometimes, in the color with plenty of big tramplers -- and you're definitely paying for the privilege of big numbers. He's sort of mana efficient, in the sense that you can let him passively accrue counters, but he's never going to see power-to-cost ratios that Lord of Extinction regularly enjoys.
I guess that, as a straight-ahead threat, this guy's serviceable, but I don't win many games of EDH on straight-ahead threats, especially ones that are time- or mana-intensive. If I was looking to play srs magical cardz, he'd be on my list of things to cut. (Of course, I wouldn't be playing Rosheen, either, in that case.)
I love the card -- I like that it's splashy and threatening and you and your opponents can see it getting bigger very turn. I just don't think it's a good card, in the sense that no one's ever going to see it and think, "Man, you know what I need to push my deck into the next level? Hydras."
He's not just a big trampler, he is the biggest trampler. And unlike LoE, he doesnt get progressively worse when there are less players, players die off, or, as in developed metas, graveyards get wiped. Oh, and LoE will be chumped all day long. This hydra? Not so much.
That's the power of this card; you can set it and forget it to draw removal, or it can end the game without being chumped for forever. No one actually wants to kill this creature, because he isnt some utility fatty like Prime Time, but while Prime provides a large advantage, he doesn't actually win you the game like Primordial Hydra. That Damnation or Wrath of God isn't so hot when you have to devalue it by dealing with a single creature. PH is always a solid threat that will get big enough and with enough evasion to actually win the game without utility dorks getting in the way; No matter how big LoE is, he doesn't realistically get any better and in many situations he is arguably much worse.
I like him in my Kresh deck. As other people have mentioned, he is good at almost any point of the game due to his x, and the ability to grow. It's very unique in that aspect... not many cards can be considered a 3 cmc card and a 10 cmc card, and still be viable at both stages. He has to be answered due to his built in trample and ability to get obscenely large. This all assuming a combo isn't going to finish the game before you can swing.
I also use burn in my kresh deck for creature removal and he usually dodges that. If he dies and kresh doesn't, kresh gets huge too. I also use savage beating and overwhelming stampede in it for finishers which also pairs nicely with him.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
No one actually wants to kill this creature, because he isnt some utility fatty like Prime Time
That is, nobody wants to kill it until it's trying to eat their face off. In other words, nobody is likely to save the table from it, but they're definitely going to save themselves.
That is, nobody wants to kill it until it's trying to eat their face off. In other words, nobody is likely to save the table from it, but they're definitely going to save themselves.
What an awesome way to describe so much of the happenings in EDH!
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I have 15 EDH decks...sorta kills the 'I only need one of a card' aspect of the format.
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It may be a question of build, but I just don't see him as that great in Azusa. In terms of mana sinks, I'd rather have Kamahl, Mishra's Helix, Genesis Wave or wolfbriar elemental. Kamahl and wave straight up win the game, helix lets you control resources and lock them with seedborn muse, and at least with wolfbriar elemental, I get some resilience. I make a 7/7 hydra for 9, or a 4/4 and 5 2/2 wolves for that same mana. I'd rather have 6 bodies totalling 14 power than 1 7/7.
I hate dies to removal as an argument, so I tend to look at it as a resource/reward argument. In this case, it doesn't come out in favour of the hydra. I spend a load of mana to make a reasonably size trampler, which is good, but if you play it cheap, its vulnerable, if you play it big, you've committed a lot of mana to make 1 huge dork without any form of protection. If you're gonna commit 10 mana to a creature, it has to have a degree of protection, redundancy or utility to it. Hydra doesn't have much of that. Sure, it can be the biggest creature you've ever seen. But if it does get removed (which isn't an argument not to run a creature on its own, it does have to be considered), you've committed a large amount (if not all) of your resources for a turn to it, and they've used much less to get rid of it. By comparison, you commit that same 10 mana to something like wolfbriar elemental, kamahl, ant queen, jade made, thornling, or mishra's helix, you can still get value, even if it instantly eats a vindicate. Wolfbriar makes 6 wolves, kamahl can use the overrun effect, jade made and queen can make more creatures, and helix can tap 5 of their lands. Hydra on the other hand just dies.
I'm not saying never run him, but for me, he just doesn't come out well enough on resource/reward for me to run him.
I think one point you are missing in your equation is that you don't have to dedicate everything to him unless you want to. He grows and doubles your reward every turn. Set it and forget it.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
It may be a question of build, but I just don't see him as that great in Azusa. In terms of mana sinks, I'd rather have Kamahl, Mishra's Helix, Genesis Wave or wolfbriar elemental. Kamahl and wave straight up win the game, helix lets you control resources and lock them with seedborn muse, and at least with wolfbriar elemental, I get some resilience. I make a 7/7 hydra for 9, or a 4/4 and 5 2/2 wolves for that same mana. I'd rather have 6 bodies totalling 14 power than 1 7/7.
I hate dies to removal as an argument, so I tend to look at it as a resource/reward argument. In this case, it doesn't come out in favour of the hydra. I spend a load of mana to make a reasonably size trampler, which is good, but if you play it cheap, its vulnerable, if you play it big, you've committed a lot of mana to make 1 huge dork without any form of protection. If you're gonna commit 10 mana to a creature, it has to have a degree of protection, redundancy or utility to it. Hydra doesn't have much of that. Sure, it can be the biggest creature you've ever seen. But if it does get removed (which isn't an argument not to run a creature on its own, it does have to be considered), you've committed a large amount (if not all) of your resources for a turn to it, and they've used much less to get rid of it. By comparison, you commit that same 10 mana to something like wolfbriar elemental, kamahl, ant queen, jade made, thornling, or mishra's helix, you can still get value, even if it instantly eats a vindicate. Wolfbriar makes 6 wolves, kamahl can use the overrun effect, jade made and queen can make more creatures, and helix can tap 5 of their lands. Hydra on the other hand just dies.
I'm not saying never run him, but for me, he just doesn't come out well enough on resource/reward for me to run him.
Fair enough, and that's more what I was looking for from Jinnobi.
I don't think anyone's missing the "set it and forget it" point. It's just not that important a point to get, to be honest. The guy has no good way of surviving a Wrath AND he has to stick around a few turns to be a real threat.
Let's run a little experiment -- when does hydra two-shot people? Let's assume anything over 25/25 (to account for blockers) is a two-shot hydra. How much time do you need to get him that big? We'll call the turn he's played turn 0.
If x ...
1, you'll need 5 turns and 3 mana.
2, you'll need 4 turns and 4 mana.
3, you'll need 3 turns and 5 mana. (He'll be a 24/24 on that turn. Close enough.)
4, you'll need 3 turns and 6 mana.
...
13, you'll need 1 turn and 15 mana.
Compare that to any of green's other game-enders. Tooth and Nail ends games now for 9 mana. Kamahl ends games in a turn or two for 15ish.
As for "drawing removal" -- that's the flip argument to "dies to removal." It's a nonargument -- otherwise, Muck Drubb would be a black staple. Why is it a nonstatement? Because, a) You shouldn't be running subpar cards just to make it less likely your business cards will get removed. Run subpar cards because you like them, or run more business cards. b) It's a bad strategy. You're tying yourself to an opponent's mistakes. Good opponents make fewer mistakes, meaning you're hamstringing yourself for little or no benefit.
Like I said earlier, he's a fun card that can attack, and that's good enough a lot of the time. (It's certainly good enough for my Rosheen deck.) But he's very time- and mana-intensive for very little payoff.
I don't think anyone's missing the "set it and forget it" point. It's just not that important a point to get, to be honest. The guy has no good way of surviving a Wrath AND he has to stick around a few turns to be a real threat.
Let's run a little experiment -- when does hydra two-shot people? Let's assume anything over 25/25 (to account for blockers) is a two-shot hydra. How much time do you need to get him that big? We'll call the turn he's played turn 0.
If x ...
1, you'll need 5 turns and 3 mana.
2, you'll need 4 turns and 4 mana.
3, you'll need 3 turns and 5 mana. (He'll be a 24/24 on that turn. Close enough.)
4, you'll need 3 turns and 6 mana.
...
13, you'll need 1 turn and 15 mana.
Compare that to any of green's other game-enders. Tooth and Nail ends games now for 9 mana. Kamahl ends games in a turn or two for 15ish.
As for "drawing removal" -- that's the flip argument to "dies to removal." It's a nonargument -- otherwise, Muck Drubb would be a black staple. Why is it a nonstatement? Because, a) You shouldn't be running subpar cards just to make it less likely your business cards will get removed. Run subpar cards because you like them, or run more business cards. b) It's a bad strategy. You're tying yourself to an opponent's mistakes. Good opponents make fewer mistakes, meaning you're hamstringing yourself for little or no benefit.
Like I said earlier, he's a fun card that can attack, and that's good enough a lot of the time. (It's certainly good enough for my Rosheen deck.) But he's very time- and mana-intensive for very little payoff.
Imo you are going to deep with this. It's a 3 mana threat that has to be answered eventually. You can wait it out and let people blow their stuff while you can ramp or do something else. Late game it can add a nice threat to one or two shot people if needed. It often goes unnoticed until it has to be dealt with within a turn which is nice.
It's versatility is what makes it a good card out of a vacuum of certain commanders. You should be running him with all of the other good green cards if you want to, not in their place.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
It may be a question of build, but I just don't see him as that great in Azusa. In terms of mana sinks, I'd rather have Kamahl, Mishra's Helix, Genesis Wave or wolfbriar elemental. Kamahl and wave straight up win the game, helix lets you control resources and lock them with seedborn muse, and at least with wolfbriar elemental, I get some resilience. I make a 7/7 hydra for 9, or a 4/4 and 5 2/2 wolves for that same mana. I'd rather have 6 bodies totalling 14 power than 1 7/7.
I hate dies to removal as an argument, so I tend to look at it as a resource/reward argument. In this case, it doesn't come out in favour of the hydra. I spend a load of mana to make a reasonably size trampler, which is good, but if you play it cheap, its vulnerable, if you play it big, you've committed a lot of mana to make 1 huge dork without any form of protection. If you're gonna commit 10 mana to a creature, it has to have a degree of protection, redundancy or utility to it. Hydra doesn't have much of that. Sure, it can be the biggest creature you've ever seen. But if it does get removed (which isn't an argument not to run a creature on its own, it does have to be considered), you've committed a large amount (if not all) of your resources for a turn to it, and they've used much less to get rid of it. By comparison, you commit that same 10 mana to something like wolfbriar elemental, kamahl, ant queen, jade made, thornling, or mishra's helix, you can still get value, even if it instantly eats a vindicate. Wolfbriar makes 6 wolves, kamahl can use the overrun effect, jade made and queen can make more creatures, and helix can tap 5 of their lands. Hydra on the other hand just dies.
I'm not saying never run him, but for me, he just doesn't come out well enough on resource/reward for me to run him.
You have a very good argument. Which is why I made this thread. However, I already run a lot of the named cards you mentioned. This is pretty much a "hey how about this threat?". Jade Mage, I don't like since I already run Ant Queen and 3 is a little to much. Plus, I'd rather have a solid threat in general.
I don't run Seedborn Muse so the Helix is kind of a lost cause in the deck.
Thornling is the best comparison to what I want for the slot in my deck. However, I'd rather run the hydra since late game, it because a huge threat. Other options were Garruk's Horde, Vigor, and Engulfing Slagwurm. I don't think I run enough creatures to take advantage of the Horde. Vigor seems mediocre. The Slagwurm looks like it'll get chumped all day.
On paper, the Hydra looks like it can get exponentially huge and be a must deal answer, which I feel my deck lacks. (Which is why I'd rather run this over Jade Mage since I doubt it's a must be answer. I still do run Ant Queen since it only costs 2 and is an efficient beater in itself).
I was hoping they'd release a new Green beater than can fill this role, but Yeva is not very satisfying. The Hydra seems like the best fit but just wanted other people's opinions.
It may be a question of build, but I just don't see him as that great in Azusa. In terms of mana sinks, I'd rather have Kamahl, Mishra's Helix, Genesis Wave or wolfbriar elemental. Kamahl and wave straight up win the game, helix lets you control resources and lock them with seedborn muse, and at least with wolfbriar elemental, I get some resilience. I make a 7/7 hydra for 9, or a 4/4 and 5 2/2 wolves for that same mana. I'd rather have 6 bodies totalling 14 power than 1 7/7.
Well in all fairness by the time you swing with either he's an evasive 14/14.
If you have a set of lighting greaves he's even better (swinging for 7 the first turn and basically requiring a wrath to answer). The wolf does have the advantage of multiple bodies.
Imo you are going to deep with this. It's a 3 mana threat that has to be answered eventually. ... You should be running him with all of the other good green cards if you want to, not in their place.
Heh, it's a card discussion. I don't think there's a "too deep." If the question is "Is this card good, and under what circumstances?" then we ought to examine the card. Personally, I think it's pretty clear that the hydra is simply outclassed by many, many other cards -- enough other cards that he's not warranted in the most cut-throat builds -- but others have a different idea, obviously. Thus the discussion.
Leaving aside the fun factor -- like I said, I run him in Rosheen because I love hydras, but I also love "fair" cards that grow and cause panic -- we must compare him to other cards to understand his value. That's why we must consider which of the 60-ish spells we're willing to cut for him; he's competing for a slot next to myriad other cards. It's not a matter of "you should run him next to other cards," but rather, "why should I run him over card x?" In other words, it is exactly a question of whether I ought to run Primordial Hydra in another card's place.
In any case, I get why others like him -- I just think that he's not optimal. That's not to say he's terrible, because he's not. He's just not a perfectly oiled killing machine -- and I totally understand that's part of the card's charm. Take it from the guy playing three-four different hydras, depending on the week -- there's something wonderful about playing what's basically a big Craw Wurm and grinning like an idiot because you just set the table to scrambling for an answer.
I thought there was a Scd for this but i cant find it.
In regards to an Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck where you have lots of mana, this card looks good. You can play it early and let it grow, or have it be huge late game and possibly one shot people with mana doublers. This will get huge and eat people. Worse case scenario, if it eats a removal spell, it is one less spell that deals with my other threats. Thoughts? I was thinking about this card since i opened it at my fnm yesterday
Ps sorry if theres typos as im typing from my phone.
'Cause I'm thinking, GG and X = 5 at EOT into a 10/10 (or larger) trampler swinging at someone's face seems decent.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
But what really makes me like it the most is the synergy it has with other important cards in the deck. It's a great target with Overwhelming stampede to win the game, and to draw cards to win the game with Soul's Majesty, Garruk, Primal Hunter and Momentous Fall.
No other straight beater in green I can think of fills that niche so well.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
He's a must answer creature, so even if he is removed (which WILL happen) at least that's one less kill card.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Every time I draw him, I'm satisfied; the sign of a great threat.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
I think most players won't be super-excited by this guy, though. He's a big trampler, sometimes, in the color with plenty of big tramplers -- and you're definitely paying for the privilege of big numbers. He's sort of mana efficient, in the sense that you can let him passively accrue counters, but he's never going to see power-to-cost ratios that Lord of Extinction regularly enjoys.
I guess that, as a straight-ahead threat, this guy's serviceable, but I don't win many games of EDH on straight-ahead threats, especially ones that are time- or mana-intensive. If I was looking to play srs magical cardz, he'd be on my list of things to cut. (Of course, I wouldn't be playing Rosheen, either, in that case.)
I love the card -- I like that it's splashy and threatening and you and your opponents can see it getting bigger very turn. I just don't think it's a good card, in the sense that no one's ever going to see it and think, "Man, you know what I need to push my deck into the next level? Hydras."
He's not just a big trampler, he is the biggest trampler. And unlike LoE, he doesnt get progressively worse when there are less players, players die off, or, as in developed metas, graveyards get wiped. Oh, and LoE will be chumped all day long. This hydra? Not so much.
That's the power of this card; you can set it and forget it to draw removal, or it can end the game without being chumped for forever. No one actually wants to kill this creature, because he isnt some utility fatty like Prime Time, but while Prime provides a large advantage, he doesn't actually win you the game like Primordial Hydra. That Damnation or Wrath of God isn't so hot when you have to devalue it by dealing with a single creature. PH is always a solid threat that will get big enough and with enough evasion to actually win the game without utility dorks getting in the way; No matter how big LoE is, he doesn't realistically get any better and in many situations he is arguably much worse.
Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control
Malfegor: Control
I have the foil LoE though! Meh!
My Animar deck LOVES this guy. Every counter on Animar is a free counter on the hydra.
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
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I also use burn in my kresh deck for creature removal and he usually dodges that. If he dies and kresh doesn't, kresh gets huge too. I also use savage beating and overwhelming stampede in it for finishers which also pairs nicely with him.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Really makes me want a copy already, lol.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Aka "Dies to removal?"
So does everything. Even players (removing them through combat etc :D). Please find a better argument.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
What an awesome way to describe so much of the happenings in EDH!
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
If you're more into the finance section of the game, I write on Fridays for MTGPrice.com.
Victim of Night.
That's not a better argument, it's the same bloody one.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Doom Blade.
I think one point you are missing in your equation is that you don't have to dedicate everything to him unless you want to. He grows and doubles your reward every turn. Set it and forget it.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
...Whatever.
Fair enough, and that's more what I was looking for from Jinnobi.
What about in Yeva, though? What do you think?
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Let's run a little experiment -- when does hydra two-shot people? Let's assume anything over 25/25 (to account for blockers) is a two-shot hydra. How much time do you need to get him that big? We'll call the turn he's played turn 0.
If x ...
1, you'll need 5 turns and 3 mana.
2, you'll need 4 turns and 4 mana.
3, you'll need 3 turns and 5 mana. (He'll be a 24/24 on that turn. Close enough.)
4, you'll need 3 turns and 6 mana.
...
13, you'll need 1 turn and 15 mana.
Compare that to any of green's other game-enders. Tooth and Nail ends games now for 9 mana. Kamahl ends games in a turn or two for 15ish.
As for "drawing removal" -- that's the flip argument to "dies to removal." It's a nonargument -- otherwise, Muck Drubb would be a black staple. Why is it a nonstatement? Because, a) You shouldn't be running subpar cards just to make it less likely your business cards will get removed. Run subpar cards because you like them, or run more business cards. b) It's a bad strategy. You're tying yourself to an opponent's mistakes. Good opponents make fewer mistakes, meaning you're hamstringing yourself for little or no benefit.
Like I said earlier, he's a fun card that can attack, and that's good enough a lot of the time. (It's certainly good enough for my Rosheen deck.) But he's very time- and mana-intensive for very little payoff.
Imo you are going to deep with this. It's a 3 mana threat that has to be answered eventually. You can wait it out and let people blow their stuff while you can ramp or do something else. Late game it can add a nice threat to one or two shot people if needed. It often goes unnoticed until it has to be dealt with within a turn which is nice.
It's versatility is what makes it a good card out of a vacuum of certain commanders. You should be running him with all of the other good green cards if you want to, not in their place.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
You have a very good argument. Which is why I made this thread. However, I already run a lot of the named cards you mentioned. This is pretty much a "hey how about this threat?". Jade Mage, I don't like since I already run Ant Queen and 3 is a little to much. Plus, I'd rather have a solid threat in general.
I don't run Seedborn Muse so the Helix is kind of a lost cause in the deck.
Thornling is the best comparison to what I want for the slot in my deck. However, I'd rather run the hydra since late game, it because a huge threat. Other options were Garruk's Horde, Vigor, and Engulfing Slagwurm. I don't think I run enough creatures to take advantage of the Horde. Vigor seems mediocre. The Slagwurm looks like it'll get chumped all day.
On paper, the Hydra looks like it can get exponentially huge and be a must deal answer, which I feel my deck lacks. (Which is why I'd rather run this over Jade Mage since I doubt it's a must be answer. I still do run Ant Queen since it only costs 2 and is an efficient beater in itself).
I was hoping they'd release a new Green beater than can fill this role, but Yeva is not very satisfying. The Hydra seems like the best fit but just wanted other people's opinions.
Swords to Plowshares
Infraction for trolling. I could let one or two of these slide but at this point you are clearly provoking other users. -ISB
Well in all fairness by the time you swing with either he's an evasive 14/14.
If you have a set of lighting greaves he's even better (swinging for 7 the first turn and basically requiring a wrath to answer). The wolf does have the advantage of multiple bodies.
Heh, it's a card discussion. I don't think there's a "too deep." If the question is "Is this card good, and under what circumstances?" then we ought to examine the card. Personally, I think it's pretty clear that the hydra is simply outclassed by many, many other cards -- enough other cards that he's not warranted in the most cut-throat builds -- but others have a different idea, obviously. Thus the discussion.
Leaving aside the fun factor -- like I said, I run him in Rosheen because I love hydras, but I also love "fair" cards that grow and cause panic -- we must compare him to other cards to understand his value. That's why we must consider which of the 60-ish spells we're willing to cut for him; he's competing for a slot next to myriad other cards. It's not a matter of "you should run him next to other cards," but rather, "why should I run him over card x?" In other words, it is exactly a question of whether I ought to run Primordial Hydra in another card's place.
In any case, I get why others like him -- I just think that he's not optimal. That's not to say he's terrible, because he's not. He's just not a perfectly oiled killing machine -- and I totally understand that's part of the card's charm. Take it from the guy playing three-four different hydras, depending on the week -- there's something wonderful about playing what's basically a big Craw Wurm and grinning like an idiot because you just set the table to scrambling for an answer.