This has been a conundrum of mine for a long time. I constantly switch generals because honestly, I just can't find one that I really enjoy playing. I can build a deck like Glissa the Traitor or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that wins easily and consistently, but it's never fun to be on the recieving end.
They're also incredibly boring. I can build a deck like Wort, the Raidmother that I find enjoyable, but it's always too random, too inconsistent and has a bad habit of getting blown off the table if it doesn't ramp out of control immediately.
Honestly I just feel lost, I'm not sure what to do anymore. I can build a deck full of fun things but the more competetive decks will just shut me down. I can build a competetive deck but then I'll just get bored after the 4th steamroll in a row.
I just can't seem to find that deck I enjoy that is both fun for the table AND competetive .
Has anyone ever experienced difficulties like these? and if you did, how did you fix the situation (or did you?). Any advice would be appreciated as i'm not really sure where to go with my next project.
It's in the deck list. Take your "Always Wins" deck and find 10 cards that you think would be fun to put in there and put them it. Cut out the cards that you find unfun. Hint: Cutting tutors is the first way make room and to make a deck more interesting.
I recently took out all tutors (except Fetchlands) and haven't really seen a drop in power, but cards I never thought I would play have made their way into decks.
It's in the deck list. Take your "Always Wins" deck and find 10 cards that you think would be fun to put in there and put them it. Cut out the cards that you find unfun. Hint: Cutting tutors is the first way make room and to make a deck more interesting.
I recently took out all tutors (except Fetchlands) and haven't really seen a drop in power, but cards I never thought I would play have made their way into decks.
This is the best advice. Tutors serve to do nothing but add consistency at the cost of variation. Excellent for combo decks, terrible for fun ones.
I have been mulling of this question for a year. I tend to make very strong decks but use themes/tribes to keep power in check. Also I play in a non-combo meta. But no matter what I seem to do I get flack when I win. I got people grumbling about my Ruhan deck when I won via general damage in a 4 way game a few weeks back. Just not sure you can please everyone.
I have been mulling of this question for a year. I tend to make very strong decks but use themes/tribes to keep power in check. Also I play in a non-combo meta. But no matter what I seem to do I get flack when I win. I got people grumbling about my Ruhan deck when I won via general damage in a 4 way game a few weeks back. Just not sure you can please everyone.
I don't get the impression that the OP is worried about having overpowered decks so much as boring decks. Overpowered isn't inherently bad, but it's about consistency. My Kamahl deck is pretty good but I can't play it very often because it's so linear. I know that turn 1 has 1-5 plays. Turn 2 has 1-3 plays. Etc. Etc. The deck is loaded with ramp and tutors so it does what it's supposed to with great regularity.
My most fun decks took all the tutors and replaced them with draw spells. I mean, it's EDH. If you draw 3 cards it's not like you will get bad cards. Mystical Tutor is good, but Recurring Insight is more fun.
I hear you loud and clear...I've been having a really difficult time finding that sweet spot between competitive and casual. I was over being explicitly competitive about a year ago, and have been looking for the right kind of deck since then. I think my Maelstrom Wanderer deck has come to closest to that middleground (by my standards), but then I made it into a Horde of Notions deck, because MW just wasn't a great fit for the theme (and I'm morally opposed to Riku).....and have been getting stomped into oblivion
Galspanic's advice might be on the money for me....I tend to replace about 30 cards with fun cards
My most fun decks took all the tutors and replaced them with draw spells. I mean, it's EDH. If you draw 3 cards it's not like you will get bad cards. Mystical Tutor is good, but Recurring Insight is more fun.
I totally support this idea, I replaced most my tutors with draw. The only issue I see with this is getting your general tucked in a general centric deck. We have been messing with a variant format using no tutors and allowing command zone replacement effect when he would be put into library. So far it has been fun but makes it hard to take your deck just anywhere. The more sets that come out the worse tuck gets. Pretty soon all non green/black decks will just be playing for the colors.
simplest answer, imo: have multiple power levels of decks. You're not going to be able to make a deck that has a good chance against a small competitive table but doesn't curb stomp casual decks. So build a couple decks, one that's mostly fun stuff and one that's more competitive. for myself I went with zirilan of the claw (fun) and glissa (more competitive).
You don't really need to PLAN to build more competitive and more casual decks, though...just build some decks, and find the ones that are most fun for their power level and keep them. Then use the deck that's most suitable to the playgroup.
I totally support this idea, I replaced most my tutors with draw. The only issue I see with this is getting your general tucked in a general centric deck. We have been messing with a variant format using no tutors and allowing command zone replacement effect when he would be put into library. So far it has been fun but makes it hard to take your deck just anywhere. The more sets that come out the worse tuck gets. Pretty soon all non green/black decks will just be playing for the colors.
There are guys here that play Lands and Creatures Only EDH and they love it!!
Thanks, I guess taking out tutors would make more room in my decks for fun stuff.
Another problem I find though, is as a timmy I like really big, explosive plays. The problem is that even if that big explosive play isn't all that good it still tends to put a target on my head and get me hated off the table.
Have you heard of Rosheen Meanderer? You could play an all or nothing approach, still be competitive, and have plenty of sweepers, wincons etc.
Mana is in abundance, and you can use "Group Hug" type cards to provide everyone with more mana.
You also gain access to some of the best removal in the game for all permanent types in cards like Beast Within, Smelt, and Krosan Grip. You gain access to great creature exile like Carbonize, which is highly underplayed when facing engines and helpers like Fauna Shaman. You can also use it as a finisher on others turns.
The posibilities are endless. RRed has great Xspells while GGreen gives you access to a toolbox of effects, some reanimation, and both colors have some decent card draw finally, even if Red's forces you to discard. Green has things to turn dead cards into something too.
LPredators, Wave and Surge feel like gifts from fate for playing such a creature-heavy deck.
As for the OP, I agree with what others have said about tutoring. Tutors give the deck the ability to play out the same way game after game.
I confess that I'm a deckbuilder who will run a little land-light but heavy on the land-tutoring. The Adun deck has 8 basic-land-finder creatures, plus Primeval.
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I have 15 EDH decks...sorta kills the 'I only need one of a card' aspect of the format.
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
If you're more into the finance section of the game, I write on Fridays for MTGPrice.com.
Answering this question is answering the secret of the format. It's what's the format is intended to achieve, yet actually capturing it is so etherial, so distant, so difficult that we have to strive to find it.
Strive to create games that people will remember, not ones that they'd rather forget.
One of the best ways to do it is to play off-beat strategies that can still be powerful, and to play seldom-seen cards that fit your synergistic strategy over staples and bombs.
You know you're doing something right when someone experienced with the game has to pick up your cards to see what they do, then gets beaten down by them and goes "Wow, why don't more people play that?"
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The best games are when the WOW moments or the EPIC FAIL moments happens. Last night was playing with people and a Leyline of Singularity is out. I play Primeval Titan and search bounce land and khalni garden, returning garden to hand a replayed it. Dead plants. People were laughing so hard at my stupidity.
I have a ton of fun with maelstrom wanderer as a general. I don't play any cards to set up cascade like brainstorm or top, so I'm always surprised. The whole table leans in and gets interested when I cast that guy. Sometimes I get Memnarch & Inferno Titan (with haste!) and the table goes "**** **** fire ze missiles", and sometimes I get rampant growth and signet and everyone breathes a sigh of relief. It's pretty awesome.
I wrote a post on this a year ago. Search the forum for posts I started. I'd link but I'm posting from my phone, so its a bit hard to search. I think its titled "Best of both worlds".
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I have a ton of fun with maelstrom wanderer as a general. I don't play any cards to set up cascade like brainstorm or top, so I'm always surprised. The whole table leans in and gets interested when I cast that guy. Sometimes I get Memnarch & Inferno Titan (with haste!) and the table goes "**** **** fire ze missiles", and sometimes I get rampant growth and signet and everyone breathes a sigh of relief. It's pretty awesome.
This sounds like the exact opposite of what I'd consider to be a good deck to fit the criteria in the OP. You basically just cram your deck full of faceless bombs and drop your general to get them for free. Yawnsville.
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They're also incredibly boring. I can build a deck like Wort, the Raidmother that I find enjoyable, but it's always too random, too inconsistent and has a bad habit of getting blown off the table if it doesn't ramp out of control immediately.
Honestly I just feel lost, I'm not sure what to do anymore. I can build a deck full of fun things but the more competetive decks will just shut me down. I can build a competetive deck but then I'll just get bored after the 4th steamroll in a row.
I just can't seem to find that deck I enjoy that is both fun for the table AND competetive .
Has anyone ever experienced difficulties like these? and if you did, how did you fix the situation (or did you?). Any advice would be appreciated as i'm not really sure where to go with my next project.
I recently took out all tutors (except Fetchlands) and haven't really seen a drop in power, but cards I never thought I would play have made their way into decks.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
This is the best advice. Tutors serve to do nothing but add consistency at the cost of variation. Excellent for combo decks, terrible for fun ones.
I don't get the impression that the OP is worried about having overpowered decks so much as boring decks. Overpowered isn't inherently bad, but it's about consistency. My Kamahl deck is pretty good but I can't play it very often because it's so linear. I know that turn 1 has 1-5 plays. Turn 2 has 1-3 plays. Etc. Etc. The deck is loaded with ramp and tutors so it does what it's supposed to with great regularity.
My most fun decks took all the tutors and replaced them with draw spells. I mean, it's EDH. If you draw 3 cards it's not like you will get bad cards. Mystical Tutor is good, but Recurring Insight is more fun.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Galspanic's advice might be on the money for me....I tend to replace about 30 cards with fun cards
I totally support this idea, I replaced most my tutors with draw. The only issue I see with this is getting your general tucked in a general centric deck. We have been messing with a variant format using no tutors and allowing command zone replacement effect when he would be put into library. So far it has been fun but makes it hard to take your deck just anywhere. The more sets that come out the worse tuck gets. Pretty soon all non green/black decks will just be playing for the colors.
You don't really need to PLAN to build more competitive and more casual decks, though...just build some decks, and find the ones that are most fun for their power level and keep them. Then use the deck that's most suitable to the playgroup.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
There are guys here that play Lands and Creatures Only EDH and they love it!!
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Another problem I find though, is as a timmy I like really big, explosive plays. The problem is that even if that big explosive play isn't all that good it still tends to put a target on my head and get me hated off the table.
Mana is in abundance, and you can use "Group Hug" type cards to provide everyone with more mana.
You also gain access to some of the best removal in the game for all permanent types in cards like Beast Within, Smelt, and Krosan Grip. You gain access to great creature exile like Carbonize, which is highly underplayed when facing engines and helpers like Fauna Shaman. You can also use it as a finisher on others turns.
You'll get access to tokens in Squirrel Nest and Night Soil. You get great X spells like Comet Storm and Devil's Play and you can win from behind by simply going off. Others will be hesitant to remove your Card Draw like Howling Mine and Temple Bell because it gives them things as well. Same goes for mana doublers in Caged Sun andMana Reflection
There's plenty of great creatures in Green with things like Woodfall Primus, Terastodon, Seedborn Muse, Acidic Slime, Chameleon Colossus and Primeval Titan. Red gives you access to some control options as well.
Have I mentioned Mirri's Guile?
The posibilities are endless. RRed has great Xspells while GGreen gives you access to a toolbox of effects, some reanimation, and both colors have some decent card draw finally, even if Red's forces you to discard. Green has things to turn dead cards into something too.
EDH:
UBGMimeoplasm (Reanimator Control)
WGBURProgenitus (Dream Halls//Good Stuff)
RNorin, the Wary (Metaddited Gaka List)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios!
I have a deck that is almost this. I can't bring myself to cut the foil noncreature cards in my Adun Oakenshield deck: Lurking Predators, Green Sun's Zenith, Hibernation's End, Fires of Yavimaya, Genesis Wave and Primal Surge.
LPredators, Wave and Surge feel like gifts from fate for playing such a creature-heavy deck.
As for the OP, I agree with what others have said about tutoring. Tutors give the deck the ability to play out the same way game after game.
I confess that I'm a deckbuilder who will run a little land-light but heavy on the land-tutoring. The Adun deck has 8 basic-land-finder creatures, plus Primeval.
I went and started a Commander/EDH blog! Come see it at http://wordofcommander.blogspot.com/ and it includes all 15 of my custom super-art generals!
If you're more into the finance section of the game, I write on Fridays for MTGPrice.com.
Strive to create games that people will remember, not ones that they'd rather forget.
My current deck, Vela, the Night-Clad, runs a ton of random durdle dudes/cards that I've been trying to fit into decks for a while, but never could find room, like Dreamscape Artist, Magus of the Unseen, Bone Dancer, and Echo Chamber.
You know you're doing something right when someone experienced with the game has to pick up your cards to see what they do, then gets beaten down by them and goes "Wow, why don't more people play that?"
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This sounds like the exact opposite of what I'd consider to be a good deck to fit the criteria in the OP. You basically just cram your deck full of faceless bombs and drop your general to get them for free. Yawnsville.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!