Commander Tournament Banned List

  • #1
    If WotC were to make Commander an official, competitive format like at a Pro Tour or Grand Prix level, what cards do you think should be banned either as generals or in general in order to keep the format healthy, fun and true to its original nature so to speak?

    (if there already are sanctioned Commander tournaments put on by WotC, I apologize for not knowing, but I would still like to ask about the "should be banned" cards)
  • #2
    Are you talking about multiplayer or 1v1?

    for 1v1 there is a banned list already, for multiplayer.... I don't even want to think of what it would look like but so many fun cards would be lost due to abuse...
    WeirdBGWKaradorBGWWeird
  • #3
    The French list is the official 1v1 banned list.

    Here's the multiplayer banned list:

    http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

    EDIT: I agree with ISBPathfinder below. Making it competitive in any way runs counter to the whole idea behind the format.
    Last edited by Bismuth Von Pherson: 5/2/2012 1:09:32 PM
    EDH - currently playing:

    52-creature Animar :symu::symr::symg:
    Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer :symw::symr:
    Varolz, the Scar-Striped :symb::symg:
    Teysa Token Beats :symw::symb: - retired
    Kresh's Fightin' Round the World :symb::symr::symg: - retired

    Quote from Phil
    Also, watching people rifle shuffle decks, then chapin spaz their hand when playing with beta duals makes me want to punch them.
  • #4
    The only way they could reliably make commander an official event would probably be to make it a 1v1 event which really would just turn it into an odd vintage/legacy style of format. In my opinion there just isnt a real way to make it a sanctioned tourney level of format and keep it multiplayer. It just isn't going to work.

    Sooooo.... if you want to turn it 1v1 then I guess the french banlist is a good place to start.

    As for making multiplayer commander ever a sanctioned format... it just isn't going to happen.
    [EDH Primers] Jenara | Marton | Thrun | Lin Sivvi | Toshiro
    [EDHNon-Primer] Obzedat | Lovisa
    [STANDARD]
    [MODERN]UWR Flash Control

    My helpdesk
  • #5
    I don't think Wizards could do anything to keep the format "healthy, fun and true to its original nature" if they made it official. There would be too many degenerate combos, tutor saturation and metagame nonsense* going on to keep it fun.

    *Say you know someone is using Zur as their general in a tournament. You're playing Sharuum the Hegemon. You could include a copy of Zur in your deck as a "kill spell."
  • #6
    This is a bad idea, but if it were a good one, the legacy ban list would be a good starting point.
    Quote from love_blanket
    The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
  • #7
    The French list is the official 1v1 banned list.



    Makes perfect sense.

    There already is an official (meaning "made my WotC") banned list, but it's not aligned to a competetive 1v1 tournament environment.

    In my opinion, all the crazy fast mana stuff should be banned. Drawing Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault decides the outgoing of a game. Luck > skill is a formula that always applies to magic, but when it comes to luck >>>>>> skill, it's not fun anymore.
    DCI Level 2 Judge (NRW, Germany)
  • #8
    Actually, I would theoretically see Wizards using the traditional Highlander ban list since the DCI would be a lot more comfortable with it.

    The French ban list, although widely used for 1v1 play, has quite a few flaws in it. Who in the world thinks it's a good idea to ban Tabernacle, Bitterblossom, and B2B over proven problem cards like Survival?
  • #9
    I'm still shocked survival is allowed in both french and normal.

    Quote from MaRo »
    Flavor is flexible enough that you can justify just about anything. The color pie has to be held mechanically to a higher standard.

    Vendilion Clique-1v1(Work in Progress), Oona-Combo(retired), Oona-Control, Wrexial
  • #10
    I think I'm in a agreement with Surging Chaos here. If wizard ever sanctioned Commander I see them using the suggested banlist found here.
    EDH
    RBUThraximundarUBR
    RUNiv-Mizzet, the FiremindUR
    BWGhost Council of OrzhovaWB
    WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
    WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
  • #11
    Any card with the blue mana symbol on it.
  • #12
    The French list is the official 1v1 banned list.

    Here's the multiplayer banned list:

    http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php

    EDIT: I agree with ISBPathfinder below. Making it competitive in any way runs counter to the whole idea behind the format.


    That's not the official 1v1 banned list. The official 1v1 list is Ackbar's list!

    All trap cards are banned.


    Though on a serious note, there's no real official 1v1 banned list and the mulitplayer one is more a strict guideline.
  • #13
    Quote from ISBPathfinder


    As for making multiplayer commander ever a sanctioned format... it just isn't going to happen.


    The problem here, IMO, is collusion. If the events were not a team format much of the political aspect of edh would/could fall under the collusion rules for sanctioned events.

    Also, if not a team format, being the odd man out at a multiplayer tble vs. 4+ people who are friends irl is not fun or a healthy format. It would be really crappy to get randomly paired at a table with said group and be virtually playing archenemy just to lose your entry fee/chance at prizes.

    Competitive, sanctioned commander is singleton legacy with x combo decks all vying to go off first. Not exactly the most interactive or fun.
    Quote from TheArchitect
    That is the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
    Quote from RMC13135 »
    He has a Vampire Nighthawk equip with a Basilisk Collar


    Quote from Teia Rabishu
    Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
  • #14
    The French banlist would definitely be the best starting banlist for a 1 vs 1 official banlist. All the other banlists are either not really adjusted for 1 vs 1 or not specific for EDH like using the legacy banlist.

    And for those who criticize the French banlist - the banlist is definitely not perfect but cards like bitterblossom and back to basics were format warping. Back to basics was an incredibly powerful card for edric decks while bitterblossom was played in every black deck just for how effective it was against most decks. Although survival is quite good, it is not as powerful in the context of the metagame as back to basics and bitterblossom. Before vengevine survival was good but not a problem in legacy. In commander there is no vengevine and though survival is good, it is by no means insanely overpowered.
    Currently Playing:
    Legacy: :symu::symr: Show and Wish Modern :symu::symw::symr: Geist Zoo
    EDH: :symr::symw::symb:Kaalia and her Aristocrats:symr::symw::symb:
    :symw::symb: Obzedat :symu::symw: Geist of Saint Traft
    :symu::symw::symr: Ruhan, of the Fomori :symu::symr:Djoira des Guituks
    :symg::symw::symu::symr::symb: Nostalgic (old-border) Sliver Queen
  • #15
    Quote from bfellow
    That's not the official 1v1 banned list. The official 1v1 list is Ackbar's list!


    Though on a serious note, there's no real official 1v1 banned list and the mulitplayer one is more a strict guideline.


    Yeah, I suppose I misspoke in my original post. It seems like the French list is the most utilized for 1v1. And you're right about the multiplayer list. That's usually what you should stick to when playing with strangers.
    Last edited by Bismuth Von Pherson: 5/2/2012 4:11:01 PM
    EDH - currently playing:

    52-creature Animar :symu::symr::symg:
    Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer :symw::symr:
    Varolz, the Scar-Striped :symb::symg:
    Teysa Token Beats :symw::symb: - retired
    Kresh's Fightin' Round the World :symb::symr::symg: - retired

    Quote from Phil
    Also, watching people rifle shuffle decks, then chapin spaz their hand when playing with beta duals makes me want to punch them.
  • #16
    French 1v1 Banlist creates a rather healthy format.
    People who complain about "degenerate combos" preventing edh from ever becoming possibly competitive are generally inexperienced in the format.
  • #17
    Quote from Candies
    French 1v1 Banlist creates a rather healthy format.
    People who complain about "degenerate combos" preventing edh from ever becoming possibly competitive are generally inexperienced in the format.


    Although I don't "complain" about it, I believe it to be the truth. Also, I like to think I have some experience with the format.
  • #18
    Quote from Sheldon
    Although I don't "complain" about it, I believe it to be the truth. Also, I like to think I have some experience with the format.


    However, "degenerate combos" do not rule over the french metagame despite many people playing to win. Competitive referring to french. Current multiplayer banlist cannot support a competitive format IMO.
  • #19
    Quote from Candies
    However, "degenerate combos" do not rule over the french metagame despite many people playing to win. Competitive referring to french. Current multiplayer banlist cannot support a competitive format IMO.


    I for sure agree with you there. The current official banned list would make an awful tournament format, either 1v1 or multi-player.
  • #20
    Multiplayer doesn't really need to be supported by wizards, due to the fact there would be a huge ban list in place just for it, killing about 75% of the best decks right there, most of the infinite combos would also be banned.

    1 vs 1 though already has a banned list, which is usually always followed plus specific stores following their own "House Rules List" where specific cards are banned along with the norm.
  • #21
    To be brutally honest, the French format is just a dumb idea. It is completely dominated by aggro control, namely Edric. It's hard to compete with such an aggressively costed, re-usable coastal piracy.

    You can't even tuck the damn thing away because of the anti-tuck rules French has.

    French EDH is played by a bunch of try-hards who have adjusted the rules of the game to suit their boring style of play. They build their decks around the generals almost completely, then ban the natural response to lend legitimacy to what their doing. If EDH didnt allow for tucking, I know for a fact that my one friend's zur deck would have been out of hand in our meta.

    Competitive EDH is like competitive roller-coaster riding. You aren't accomplishing anything and you're ruining everyone's time.
    EDH Decks

    Ruric-Thar, the Unbowed: Punisher-Control

    Isperia, Supreme Judge: Control

    Malfegor: Control
  • #22
    Quote from ticker
    To be brutally honest, the French format is just a dumb idea. It is completely dominated by aggro control, namely Edric. It's hard to compete with such an aggressively costed, re-usable coastal piracy.

    You can't even tuck the damn thing away because of the anti-tuck rules French has.

    French EDH is played by a bunch of try-hards who have adjusted the rules of the game to suit their boring style of play. They build their decks around the generals almost completely, then ban the natural response to lend legitimacy to what their doing. If EDH didnt allow for tucking, I know for a fact that my one friend's zur deck would have been out of hand in our meta.

    Competitive EDH is like competitive roller-coaster riding. You aren't accomplishing anything and you're ruining everyone's time.



    If you think the format is dominated by Edric, you clearly haven't played the format. There are more viable decks in the French 1v1 format than there ever were under the MTGS banlist, which was essentially the multiplayer list.

    Here's a short list of the viable decks:

    Edric Goodstuff
    Edric Weenie
    GAAIV Stax
    Geist Tempo
    UB Sygg Tempo
    Teysa Aggro/Combo
    Adun Ooze Combo
    Sisay Hatebears
    Zur Voltron
    BUG Oath
    Humility Control
    Ezuri Elfball
    Thraximundar Metahate
    Isamaru/Thalia Aggro
    Iname Combo
    Lyzolda Aggro
    Karador Dredge
    Olivia Control
    Wydwen Tempo
    Clique Tempo
    ect.

    I'd go on, but there are so many I quite literally cannot remember all of them.

    This is such a diverse format it's scary!

    Moving to "build decks around the general" ........compared to, say, an EDH deck without a general?

    Try the format before you bash it.
    Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine


    EDH:
    RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
    GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)

    Duel Commander:
    WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
    BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
    BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)


    Church of the Wary
  • #23
    Quote from ticker
    To be brutally honest, the French format is just a dumb idea. It is completely dominated by aggro control, namely Edric. It's hard to compete with such an aggressively costed, re-usable coastal piracy.

    You can't even tuck the damn thing away because of the anti-tuck rules French has.

    French EDH is played by a bunch of try-hards who have adjusted the rules of the game to suit their boring style of play. They build their decks around the generals almost completely, then ban the natural response to lend legitimacy to what their doing. If EDH didnt allow for tucking, I know for a fact that my one friend's zur deck would have been out of hand in our meta.

    Competitive EDH is like competitive roller-coaster riding. You aren't accomplishing anything and you're ruining everyone's time.


    St Nazaire Top 50:

    1: edric
    ezuri
    ruhan
    karador
    grand arbitre
    roneo
    omnath
    iname

    9: olivia
    doran
    cranebruyere
    clique
    thraximundar (wafo tapa)
    edric
    nin
    karador
    azusa
    rhys
    radha
    skitty

    21: rhys
    karador
    xira
    olivia
    oona
    doran
    isamaru
    edric
    karador
    horde de notion

    31: asuza
    jenara
    geist
    olivia
    sygg
    geist
    arcanis
    lyzolda
    lyzolda
    olivia
    ib micoeur
    gaa
    rhys
    isamaru
    thalia
    khalia
    ezuri
    rhys


    That looks like 7/8 of the top decks is the same deck like sometimes even standard/legacy is, right. Claiming a top tier deck is ruining the format is like saying maverick or delver is ruining legacy.
    A recent legacy T8: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=2012%20StarCity%20Open%20Legacy%20-%20Phoenix%20-%204/15
    The most recent Standard Starcitygames event: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=2012%20StarCity%20Open%20Standard%20-%20Birmingham%20-%204/21
    Last edited by Candies: 5/2/2012 6:32:05 PM
  • #24
    Quote from Candies
    French 1v1 Banlist creates a rather healthy format.
    People who complain about "degenerate combos" preventing edh from ever becoming possibly competitive are generally inexperienced in the format.


    A lot of us are referring specifically to a multiplayer setting, not 1v1.
    Quote from TheArchitect
    That is the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
    Quote from RMC13135 »
    He has a Vampire Nighthawk equip with a Basilisk Collar


    Quote from Teia Rabishu
    Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
  • #25
    Quote from jedimindtricks
    A lot of us are referring specifically to a multiplayer setting, not 1v1.


    Competitive multiplayer FFA will not work no matter the format.
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