After a bit of EDH some months back, I started thinking to myself, do foils matter? No I don't mean that they look pretty to you, but can they actually affect how a game plays out (I'm talking 4-Man EDH).
People with foils generally have money. And having money means you're deck is usually pretty well tuned. This means you are a larger target. In a 4-man multiplayer game where you are trying to hang low, this is a very bad thing for you. On the other hand, however, I might just be imagining things and maybe foils don't really affect people's impressions of you.
So what do you guys think? Foil V.S. Non-Foil.
Oh and one more thing, what if you were playing an all commons deck, would they care if it was all foil then?
Thanks!
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As EDH is mainly a fun format for multiplayer, play what you like. If you like foils, then fill up your deck with them. Most people (in my playgroup at least) look at the commanders and board presence to decide who and what's a threat, rather than money and aesthetics. Whether your Primeval Titan is foil or not, he's a big target. You may have a reputation for having stronger decks, and people might target you at first if you bring a new deck to the table, but if you repeatedly play the same decks, I don't think it's going to matter.
As EDH is mainly a fun format for multiplayer, play what you like. If you like foils, then fill up your deck with them. Most people (in my playgroup at least) look at the commanders and board presence to decide who and what's a threat, rather than money and aesthetics. You may have a reputation for having stronger decks, and people might target you at first if you bring a new deck to the table, but if you repeatedly play the same decks, I don't think it's going to matter.
Pretty much this. I've played against people with more money than deckbuilding sensibilities many times, like the guy who foiled out an Azusa deck, including full snow manabase, for his first EDH deck. There are people who don't care at all about aesthetics and there are people who prioritize them over functionality. General, board presences, and playstyle are going to shape my threat assessment far more than your board is.
There are certainly some people who will swing for the expensive deck first, but I wouldn't imagine it's a majority.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
My deck is all non foil, except for the commander. I'm not going to lie, the main reason is that it would be ridiculously more expensive to foil it out and I can't justify that. However, I do feel like people subconsciously think that foils are somehow better even though that logically they know they are the same, so it could influence their decision making.
But aesthetically, I would actually prefer a mostly nonfoil deck, so that I can foil out the cards that actually mean something (bombs, favorite cards, etc) to make them more special to me.
I don't know about you but if have haven't played with someone before and I see them playing with a foiled out deck I am going to assume they have a very good deck and I am going to focus more on them then I would otherwise. So imo foils hurt you more then they help. Also by trading your foils away you can make more decks since they worth more, right now I have 7-8 edh decks.
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Dark Confident: Heh isn't that (Panoptic Mirror) banned? What you do mean you imprint Timewarp? i imprint my foot on your face!
I had a few people in my casual group ignore a foil card because they were too lazy to ask to read it. Needless to say, they learned really quickly not to ignore cards.
i could see myself being a little bit intimidated by some deck's foil presence, as hard as i would try not to be...
then there are guys like me, who tend to foil out the cheaper cards in their decks, which usually happen to be my favorite pet cards of my decks.
i dont have to justify my intense love for cards like Awakening Zone, Scatter the Seeds, Unmake, Relic Crush, Marshal's Anthem, Wood Elves, etc...
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Umm not really I never had any problem with my around 80% foiled Teneb deck.
I think my deck is actually not that expensive, I have been collecting EDH foils for 2 years now. But to get to 100% I have to buy those $60+ foils tho(like karmic guide, mana crypt, d tutor, survival etc).
My Goblins are completely foil but thats because they are my favorite tribe and the reason I started playing magic when I was a kid. So I couldn't help myself but to buy everything and foil them out some cards are to old to foil so I got alt art on them. Doesn't really affect me or how people come after me. My playgroup is usually a little smart and just go for the person that we know is more threatening then some dude with foils.
I've played with people for whom threat evaluation means "attack expensive decks." "Polluted Delta into Tropical Island? Kill him!" I try not to play with those people more than once.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
As EDH is mainly a fun format for multiplayer, play what you like. If you like foils, then fill up your deck with them. Most people (in my playgroup at least) look at the commanders and board presence to decide who and what's a threat, rather than money and aesthetics. Whether your Primeval Titan is foil or not, he's a big target. You may have a reputation for having stronger decks, and people might target you at first if you bring a new deck to the table, but if you repeatedly play the same decks, I don't think it's going to matter.
I agree. I couldn't care less about your foil acidic slime when there's that beat up, highly played consecrated sphinx that just hit the board. It doesnt matter which deck I play, 80% foiled riku or completely non-foil Damia, my group knows I'm probably up to no good and out to kill them all. In wonderous fashion.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
I haven't seen this come up in any games that I have played so far, be it standard, casual or EDH. I know for myself that I buy foil copies of cards that I particularly enjoy, including my General, but there's no definite need for the entire thing to be covered in the stuff.
At least of my friends prefers to ignore foils because they have difficulty reading them, which is about the only grounds that I can fathom someone not playing another person for having a foiled deck.
I thought foils meant you didn't have a girlfriend.
Kidding aside, in my playgroup there aren't too many foiled up decks. I have seen only 2 really pimp foiled up commander decks. Most people I know have a few foils but, not too many are enthusiast.
If foils make you a target, the people you're playing with probably don't have much threat perception.
Some people with a lot of money build terrible decks. Some people with a lot of money build ridiculously good decks. Some people with less money build terrible decks. Some people with less money build great decks, either working with the money available to them or just proxying.
I know people who fit under every one of those categories.
Your decision on who is the biggest threat shouldn't be based on how shiny their cards are, it should be based on the board state and the spells that have been played throughout the course of the game.
If foils make you a target, the people you're playing with probably don't have much threat perception.
Some people with a lot of money build terrible decks. Some people with a lot of money build ridiculously good decks. Some people with less money build terrible decks. Some people with less money build great decks, either working with the money available to them or just proxying.
I know people who fit under every one of those categories.
Your decision on who is the biggest threat shouldn't be based on how shiny their cards are, it should be based on the board state and the spells that have been played throughout the course of the game.
I can understand why a lot of people would associate the amount of money put into the deck with it's power level, but foils are rather different. Reveillark is only ~$3, but is ~$20 for foil. A lot of foils are like 'lark, where they're cheap cards with overpriced foils. Running The Tabernacle at pendral Vale is completely different that a Foil Tarmogoyf, even though they're roughly the same price.
Foils/value have nothing to do with it. I cannot stand foils and I tend to be focused first because my decks are tuned to spit out threat after threat. There is another guy in my meta who loves his foils and no one even considers hitting the guy unless his board presence is huge.
@whiteblade999, Value does have something to do with it. Foil and Value should not be confused with each other. Someone can go out and drop 300+ on an EDH deck in order to get those really good cards (minus a few expensive lands and other ridiculously costed spells). By looking at the quality of the cards a person is playing, that deck becomes much more of a potential threat so locking them down even when someone with a less stacked deck has a more threatening presence you are hedging your bets.
In my playgroup, we have one player besides myself who is not very budget restricted (within reason). Because of this, when he is playing a deck we haven't seen before, we are fairly certain it is going to be threatening because we know he spends the money on those old obscure cards to make it tick. So the Value of one's deck does often correlate with how much hate that person should receive outside of board presence obviously.
Personally, I have a few foils because I could pick them up for like a dollar or 25 cents more than the nonfoil copy. It's cool to have a couple in the deck. Mostly, I just have a foil of my General though as I feel I liked the card enough to make a deck around it, why not make it foil?
Nope. I have 12 mostly-foiled decks, and my wife bought me all of them
There's foil craw wurms?
Anyway, only one person plays a pimped out deck. All alters and foils. All his basics are foiled unhinged. A little excessive if you ask me, but what ever.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
All of my decks are fully Japanese foiled and the pimpest version of each cards, and yes that does make me a target everytime we play in a multiplayer setting.
Whichever deck I use, even though it's a weak general, people will target me first, just for the hell of it. I have to admit that I'm not the best player around (lots of misplays), but people will still gun for me first.
Apparently a certain new person in my group thinks because I liked Zendikar full art lands and have a decent bit of foiled cards (like 20-30?) that I am a big threat because I paid $3.00 for a FNM Sakura Tribe Elder when a normal one is $ .60, oooOOOooOOoooo big stuff!
On the real though my friends know what's really up, and no foils aren't usually a part of threat assessment. I think that it just influences those new to the format/TCG all together.
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Decks: WUG Jenara, Asura of War WR Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas WU Lavinia of the Tenth UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus
I can see the logic in assuming that someone with a heavily foiled or otherwise 'rare' versions of cards might be more of a threat than someone without them. If someone is willing to spend significant amounts of money to foil out a deck that is probably already stocked full of decently expensive cards, there's a good chance they're pretty serious about Magic. If they're serious about Magic, they probably know what they're doing when constructing and playing. Ergo they could be considered a pretty serious threat compared to someone who is playing mostly cards from a pre-con or something.
If I sit down with 3 random people and I see them drop T1 Island, Forest, Foil Polluted Delta respectively, I know who I'm going to be gunning for first until proven otherwise.
Nope. I have 12 mostly-foiled decks, and my wife bought me all of them
So, he's right. You don't have a girlfriend?
@Impossible
I'm killing that guy playing forests first. He's obviously a bit unstable and doesn't understand magic if he brought green mana to an island fight. In all seriousness, depends on their generals. If forest is animar, momir, or ghave, that guy dies first. Always.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
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People with foils generally have money. And having money means you're deck is usually pretty well tuned. This means you are a larger target. In a 4-man multiplayer game where you are trying to hang low, this is a very bad thing for you. On the other hand, however, I might just be imagining things and maybe foils don't really affect people's impressions of you.
So what do you guys think? Foil V.S. Non-Foil.
Oh and one more thing, what if you were playing an all commons deck, would they care if it was all foil then?
Thanks!
Thanks to DarkKnightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this awesome signature!
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
Pretty much this. I've played against people with more money than deckbuilding sensibilities many times, like the guy who foiled out an Azusa deck, including full snow manabase, for his first EDH deck. There are people who don't care at all about aesthetics and there are people who prioritize them over functionality. General, board presences, and playstyle are going to shape my threat assessment far more than your board is.
There are certainly some people who will swing for the expensive deck first, but I wouldn't imagine it's a majority.
But aesthetically, I would actually prefer a mostly nonfoil deck, so that I can foil out the cards that actually mean something (bombs, favorite cards, etc) to make them more special to me.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
then there are guys like me, who tend to foil out the cheaper cards in their decks, which usually happen to be my favorite pet cards of my decks.
i dont have to justify my intense love for cards like Awakening Zone, Scatter the Seeds, Unmake, Relic Crush, Marshal's Anthem, Wood Elves, etc...
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
My four other decks have hardly any foils - as they have gotten me targeted again and again even when there was bigger threats in play.
I think my deck is actually not that expensive, I have been collecting EDH foils for 2 years now. But to get to 100% I have to buy those $60+ foils tho(like karmic guide, mana crypt, d tutor, survival etc).
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
I agree. I couldn't care less about your foil acidic slime when there's that beat up, highly played consecrated sphinx that just hit the board. It doesnt matter which deck I play, 80% foiled riku or completely non-foil Damia, my group knows I'm probably up to no good and out to kill them all. In wonderous fashion.
At least of my friends prefers to ignore foils because they have difficulty reading them, which is about the only grounds that I can fathom someone not playing another person for having a foiled deck.
Kidding aside, in my playgroup there aren't too many foiled up decks. I have seen only 2 really pimp foiled up commander decks. Most people I know have a few foils but, not too many are enthusiast.
Nope. I have 12 mostly-foiled decks, and my wife bought me all of them
Some people with a lot of money build terrible decks. Some people with a lot of money build ridiculously good decks. Some people with less money build terrible decks. Some people with less money build great decks, either working with the money available to them or just proxying.
I know people who fit under every one of those categories.
Your decision on who is the biggest threat shouldn't be based on how shiny their cards are, it should be based on the board state and the spells that have been played throughout the course of the game.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
I can understand why a lot of people would associate the amount of money put into the deck with it's power level, but foils are rather different. Reveillark is only ~$3, but is ~$20 for foil. A lot of foils are like 'lark, where they're cheap cards with overpriced foils. Running The Tabernacle at pendral Vale is completely different that a Foil Tarmogoyf, even though they're roughly the same price.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
In my playgroup, we have one player besides myself who is not very budget restricted (within reason). Because of this, when he is playing a deck we haven't seen before, we are fairly certain it is going to be threatening because we know he spends the money on those old obscure cards to make it tick. So the Value of one's deck does often correlate with how much hate that person should receive outside of board presence obviously.
Personally, I have a few foils because I could pick them up for like a dollar or 25 cents more than the nonfoil copy. It's cool to have a couple in the deck. Mostly, I just have a foil of my General though as I feel I liked the card enough to make a deck around it, why not make it foil?
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
There's foil craw wurms?
Anyway, only one person plays a pimped out deck. All alters and foils. All his basics are foiled unhinged. A little excessive if you ask me, but what ever.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Whichever deck I use, even though it's a weak general, people will target me first, just for the hell of it. I have to admit that I'm not the best player around (lots of misplays), but people will still gun for me first.
On the real though my friends know what's really up, and no foils aren't usually a part of threat assessment. I think that it just influences those new to the format/TCG all together.
Decks:
WUG Jenara, Asura of War
WR Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
WU Lavinia of the Tenth
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus
If I sit down with 3 random people and I see them drop T1 Island, Forest, Foil Polluted Delta respectively, I know who I'm going to be gunning for first until proven otherwise.
So, he's right. You don't have a girlfriend?
@Impossible
I'm killing that guy playing forests first. He's obviously a bit unstable and doesn't understand magic if he brought green mana to an island fight. In all seriousness, depends on their generals. If forest is animar, momir, or ghave, that guy dies first. Always.