Okay I'm running a Naya Colored EDH deck being with Uril, the Miststalker and I'm having trouble against Ghave, Guru of Spores EDH which runs Grave Pact and other stuff that forces me to sacrifice creatures including my General.
What Red, Green, and White cards or perhaps Colorless cards would prevent my opponent from having me to sacrifice my own creatures? Tajuru Preserver seems like the only card that stops it but what else?
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
There are not many things that directly prevent you from sacrificing things (infact, I think that Tajaru Preserver is the only one). There are, however, clever things you can do. For example, you can make all your creatures have persist, or run a few token producers. If your having trouble with Ghave in particular, the best way is to destroy their enablers. If they don't do it immediately after they drop Grave Pact, then Krosan Grip will take care of the issue nicely. Linvala, Keeper of Silence prevents Ghave sac shenanigans.
But here's the thing though, most of the stuff that Ghave EDH runs like Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond is Global meaning stuff like Witchbane Orb or Ivory Mask won't protect you from it. What can Uril EDH really do against Ghave? Hope to swing before you're forced to sack your General from Grave Pact. -___-
It turns out I need to run mass Enchantment removal like Paraselene, Tranquility, Austere Command, that sort of thing. Here's how Ghave EDH can win and this happened to me so bad that he bought me a drink cause he felt sorry for me which I don't blame him for:
Ever got pwned by Mindslaver or Sen Triplets? It was way worse than that. I couldn't even concede or scoop unless he wanted to quit the game due to Abyssal Persecutor it was THAT evil. So now you see my problem dealing with Ghave oh and Zur is just as annoying as well. Zurlock basically goes like this:
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
But here's the thing though, most of the stuff that Ghave EDH runs like Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond is Global meaning stuff like Witchbane Orb or Ivory Mask won't protect you from it. What can Uril EDH really do against Ghave? Hope to swing before you're forced to sack your General from Grave Pact. -___-
It turns out I need to run mass Enchantment removal like Paraselene, Tranquility, Austere Command, that sort of thing. Here's how Ghave EDH can win and this happened to me so bad that he bought me a drink cause he felt sorry for me which I don't blame him for:
Ever got pwned by Mindslaver or Sen Triplets? It was way worse than that. I couldn't even concede or scoop unless he wanted to quit the game due to Abyssal Persecutor it was THAT evil. So now you see my problem dealing with Ghave oh and Zur is just as annoying as well. Zurlock basically goes like this:
Regeneration doesn't work either to get around it cause you can only regenerate a creature If it died from any sort of "damage", If the creature died from being forced to get sacrificed via Diabolic Edict for example then you cannot regenerate it period. That is part of what makes Ghave a broken EDH deck.
The best way to shutdown Ghave in EDH is by running a Blue General and by running loads and loads of hard counterspells or just run Zur the Enchanter and win on Turn 4 or 5 possibly. If you're expecting to mana ramp into your General like mid game most decks usually have a response to it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Regeneration doesn't work either to get around it cause you can only regenerate a creature If it died from any sort of "damage", If the creature died from being forced to get sacrificed via Diabolic Edict for example then you cannot regenerate it period. That is part of what makes Ghave a broken EDH deck.
The best way to shutdown Ghave in EDH is by running a Blue General and by running loads and loads of hard counterspells or just run Zur the Enchanter and win on Turn 4 or 5 possibly. If you're expecting to mana ramp into your General like mid game most decks usually have a response to it.
I believe Samurai does stop the dies triggers from happening off the tokens since tokens are permanents (leyline would not work though since tokens are not cards).
second sunrise may be what you are looking for, if he is sacking a lot of tokens, then he wont be getting them back.
depending on your build, enduring renewal can totally catch people off guard.
cauldron of souls would be my favorite method of retaining your creatures.
It doesn't matter If he gets his tokens back as long as he forces me to sacrifice my General every turn with Grave Pact on the battlefield thus increasing it's casting cost by 2 extra mana to send it from the Command Zone to the battlefield.
The way my build with Uril EDH works is cast him out on Turn 5 or 6 and try to slap as many Enchantments on him as possible to win the game before I'm forced to sacrifice my General or If it gets countered by a Blue General.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Also, Uril is a pretty fast clock - he only needs to land three hits with just a single aura on him to be lethal. Because of this, you can focus on enchantments that give him evasion and/or extra protection (not that there's much against sac effects, but Pollenbright Wings is a thing) and dole them out one at a time - that way you're not losing out so badly when Uril does die. Loading him up with enchantments and wrecking face can be a perfectly valid strategy, but it's clearly going to fail every time in the face of Ghave and his millions, so you've got to adapt a bit, not just hope that one lone piece of tech (Tajuru Preserver) is going to be enough.
Steal the General, or Hinder it when it comes in to play. You could also cast wipe away to bounce it back to hand before an activated ability can be activated.
I hope this post isn't saying something too obvious, but here it goes.
I don't play Uril myself, but in most decks I do have I try to have ways to deal with enchantments and artifacts. The natural problem of course is they can be too narrow. The answer of course is to use things that take care of other things as well. Just to give a broad example, any deck can run Oblivion Ring, Nevinyral's Disk and All is Dust.
Nevermore? i always thought it could be a funny card to run.
you could try to run more critters to buy you enough time to disenchant ghave's enchantments, or blow up all lands... saffi ericsdotter, dauntless escort, land fetching dorks, Elspeth, etc
I am a strong advocate of Khalni Garden which is a freakin free 0/1 creature that ALSO happens to put a land into play tapped. but i know that doesn't help you much.
imo it seems like you're just always going to have a bad matchup against "make you sac all your stuff" strategies, atleast with the way that you'd want to build something like uril
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I'm running a fairly potent sac themed deck myself. The decks that I have the hardest time dealing with are the ones that are able to generate many tokens or have many cheap creatures fielded.
If you are having problem with Uril, try not to rely on him so much. Toss in more creatures to be sac'd instead of Uril....or toss in some token generators for cannon fodder.
Elemental Mastery could work for you aswell, as it works well with Uril's enchant theme. Tap in response, and then sac whatever token you want without it impacting Uril.
It doesn't matter If he gets his tokens back as long as he forces me to sacrifice my General every turn with Grave Pact on the battlefield thus increasing it's casting cost by 2 extra mana to send it from the Command Zone to the battlefield.
The way my build with Uril EDH works is cast him out on Turn 5 or 6 and try to slap as many Enchantments on him as possible to win the game before I'm forced to sacrifice my General or If it gets countered by a Blue General.
I think this is your problem. Casting Uril turn 5 or 6 allows Ghave to get his defenses in place. Uril with a god hand and the right deck can come out turn 2. The more likely scenario is a turn 3 uril, enchanted (assuming you get a 1 drop enchantment). At that point you can try and pop all lands on turn 4 for the win, or continue enchanting him with some defensive countermeasures. As previously mentioned, things like flickerform, if you run into the sac thing frequently Pollenbright Wings, and I'm fairly certain there's a creature that says something along the lines of "Effects that would cause you to sacrifice permanents, don't make you sacrifice permanents."
Ghave costs the same amount of mana, and requires BBB in order to cast pact. Unless he has an awesome mana base, you should be able to pump 21 general into his rectal cavity by turn 5 or 6. If he's running the cards to hose you, run the cards to hose the whole table.
I'm not facing the exact same problems with my Uril deck, but I am becoming increasingly convinced that the very best, albeit least flashy, solution to 99 out of every 100 problems you face when playing Uril is:
1) Ramp faster/more consistently.
2) Drop and enchant Uril sooner.
2) Blow up all the lands sooner.
If you can consistently leave your opponents sitting there with nothing relevant in play, and no lands under their control, staring down an enchanted Uril, it doesn't really matter what deck they're playing/what their strategy is.
That doesn't really help a lot - Snap is a sorcery, so likely won't do a lot save make him cast Ghave again.
He can still make a token, then sac it in response to the Flash trigger, so all you've done is make him have to pay 2 to do a grave pact rather than being able to stagger them as 1 to make a guy, and 1 later to sac it.
Night of Soul's Betrayal also won't stop his tokens dieing, it just means that he can only make 4 tokens off of every Ghave casting (or 18 if he has Doubling Season)
He can still make 1/1s and they will still trigger Grave Pact.
Yea, well I failed almost 100% because I failed to notice what General the OP was playing (mostly due to the color of the text being almost unreadable for me). I play my Uril deck much different, and many of the good ideas have been said, but: Torpor Orb: I am not entirely sure this works, but if it does he could not play his general- well he could but it would not get counters. Aura Shards and something like Jade Mage: it will boost Earl, and can keep harmful enchantments from sticking around.
Enchant Removal (Seal of Primordium) and Grave hate (Relic of Progenitus): Get rid of them for good. Suppression Field: It hurts you too, but in my deck the good outweighs the bad.
Linvala:Yes, they can sac in response, but if you can find a way to survive them emptying their Ghave of tokens, you will not have to deal with it again.
The cheapest, good, repeatable token maker I can think of off the top of my head is Sacred Mesa, but if he has Grave Pact in play and can make and sac more creatures than you have amounts of 1W available well you're just going to have to find some way to get rid of the Grave Pact.
It's not just a problem for Uril though; with Grave Pact out Ghave can pretty much control anyone's board
What Red, Green, and White cards or perhaps Colorless cards would prevent my opponent from having me to sacrifice my own creatures? Tajuru Preserver seems like the only card that stops it but what else?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
There are many indirect methods, though. Generating your own creatures and stopping the sacrificing mechanism works.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
But yeah, there's not much that can stop untargeted effects like Grave Pact and Sheoldred other than spamming the board with creatures
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
It turns out I need to run mass Enchantment removal like Paraselene, Tranquility, Austere Command, that sort of thing. Here's how Ghave EDH can win and this happened to me so bad that he bought me a drink cause he felt sorry for me which I don't blame him for:
Once he had Ghave, Guru of Spores out with Grave Pact, Martyr's Bond, and Mindcrank with a field of Saproling tokens he played Natural Affinity to destroy all my lands by sacrificing creatures to his General and then he got out Abyssal Persecutor and cast an Identity Crisis to exile my hand and my graveyard completely.
Ever got pwned by Mindslaver or Sen Triplets? It was way worse than that. I couldn't even concede or scoop unless he wanted to quit the game due to Abyssal Persecutor it was THAT evil. So now you see my problem dealing with Ghave oh and Zur is just as annoying as well. Zurlock basically goes like this:
Turn 3-4 Zur the Enchanter + Solitary Confinement + Necropotence = Infinite draw = I slap a Steel of the Godhead and Empyrial Armor on Zur the Enchanter to swing for 21 General damage and gain infinite life with Venser's Journal.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Samurai of the Pale Curtain neuters Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond in white.
Regeneration doesn't work either to get around it cause you can only regenerate a creature If it died from any sort of "damage", If the creature died from being forced to get sacrificed via Diabolic Edict for example then you cannot regenerate it period. That is part of what makes Ghave a broken EDH deck.
The best way to shutdown Ghave in EDH is by running a Blue General and by running loads and loads of hard counterspells or just run Zur the Enchanter and win on Turn 4 or 5 possibly. If you're expecting to mana ramp into your General like mid game most decks usually have a response to it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I believe Samurai does stop the dies triggers from happening off the tokens since tokens are permanents (leyline would not work though since tokens are not cards).
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Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
depending on your build, enduring renewal can totally catch people off guard.
cauldron of souls would be my favorite method of retaining your creatures.
BBB Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed BBB Decklist
Glissa, the Traitor
BRB Olivia Voldaren BRB
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted UWR Decklist
BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores WGB
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon BUW
GUB The Mimeoplasm BUG
1WUBRG Karona, False God GRBUW1 Decklist
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It doesn't matter If he gets his tokens back as long as he forces me to sacrifice my General every turn with Grave Pact on the battlefield thus increasing it's casting cost by 2 extra mana to send it from the Command Zone to the battlefield.
The way my build with Uril EDH works is cast him out on Turn 5 or 6 and try to slap as many Enchantments on him as possible to win the game before I'm forced to sacrifice my General or If it gets countered by a Blue General.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Also, Uril is a pretty fast clock - he only needs to land three hits with just a single aura on him to be lethal. Because of this, you can focus on enchantments that give him evasion and/or extra protection (not that there's much against sac effects, but Pollenbright Wings is a thing) and dole them out one at a time - that way you're not losing out so badly when Uril does die. Loading him up with enchantments and wrecking face can be a perfectly valid strategy, but it's clearly going to fail every time in the face of Ghave and his millions, so you've got to adapt a bit, not just hope that one lone piece of tech (Tajuru Preserver) is going to be enough.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Aether Snap
Aether Flash
Night of Soul's Betrayal
Then you could also yoink the counters off Ghave
Vampire Hexmage
Hex Parasite
Make activating abilities tough:
Phyrexian Revoker
Suppression Field
Pithing Needle
Steal the General, or Hinder it when it comes in to play. You could also cast wipe away to bounce it back to hand before an activated ability can be activated.
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I don't play Uril myself, but in most decks I do have I try to have ways to deal with enchantments and artifacts. The natural problem of course is they can be too narrow. The answer of course is to use things that take care of other things as well. Just to give a broad example, any deck can run Oblivion Ring, Nevinyral's Disk and All is Dust.
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Also, maybe run a few token creating enchantments
awakening zone
Luminarch Ascension (if you can get it out early)
Sigil of the Empty Throne (if your deck is enchantress)
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you could try to run more critters to buy you enough time to disenchant ghave's enchantments, or blow up all lands... saffi ericsdotter, dauntless escort, land fetching dorks, Elspeth, etc
I am a strong advocate of Khalni Garden which is a freakin free 0/1 creature that ALSO happens to put a land into play tapped. but i know that doesn't help you much.
imo it seems like you're just always going to have a bad matchup against "make you sac all your stuff" strategies, atleast with the way that you'd want to build something like uril
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
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GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
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If you are having problem with Uril, try not to rely on him so much. Toss in more creatures to be sac'd instead of Uril....or toss in some token generators for cannon fodder.
Elemental Mastery could work for you aswell, as it works well with Uril's enchant theme. Tap in response, and then sac whatever token you want without it impacting Uril.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
I think this is your problem. Casting Uril turn 5 or 6 allows Ghave to get his defenses in place. Uril with a god hand and the right deck can come out turn 2. The more likely scenario is a turn 3 uril, enchanted (assuming you get a 1 drop enchantment). At that point you can try and pop all lands on turn 4 for the win, or continue enchanting him with some defensive countermeasures. As previously mentioned, things like flickerform, if you run into the sac thing frequently Pollenbright Wings, and I'm fairly certain there's a creature that says something along the lines of "Effects that would cause you to sacrifice permanents, don't make you sacrifice permanents."
Ghave costs the same amount of mana, and requires BBB in order to cast pact. Unless he has an awesome mana base, you should be able to pump 21 general into his rectal cavity by turn 5 or 6. If he's running the cards to hose you, run the cards to hose the whole table.
1) Ramp faster/more consistently.
2) Drop and enchant Uril sooner.
2) Blow up all the lands sooner.
If you can consistently leave your opponents sitting there with nothing relevant in play, and no lands under their control, staring down an enchanted Uril, it doesn't really matter what deck they're playing/what their strategy is.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Torpor Orb: I am not entirely sure this works, but if it does he could not play his general- well he could but it would not get counters.
Aura Shards and something like Jade Mage: it will boost Earl, and can keep harmful enchantments from sticking around.
Enchant Removal (Seal of Primordium) and Grave hate (Relic of Progenitus): Get rid of them for good.
Suppression Field: It hurts you too, but in my deck the good outweighs the bad.
Linvala:Yes, they can sac in response, but if you can find a way to survive them emptying their Ghave of tokens, you will not have to deal with it again.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
It's not just a problem for Uril though; with Grave Pact out Ghave can pretty much control anyone's board