I've had several of my friends recommend this card to me, and pretty much every person I've met at my LGS. When using him, however, I have found him to be substantially sub par. He eats removal almost immediately and then I'm down 8 mana when the person who killed him is down 2, and I'm now target #1 for the table.
What do you guys think?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH: WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW BG WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW BG WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB USakashima the ImpostorU
Just because he get's killed quickly isn't a reason not to play him. It's like saying Consecrated Sphinx is a bad card. He can definitely win a game flat out for you if you have the cards available, but I think that's his biggest problem. If you don't have the cards to spend all that mana on the turn you play him (or the next turn if you manage to untap with him) then he will draw to much hate your way all at once. I'd probably never play him in a mono green deck, since you are going to be able to just ramp hard without him, but in any other color combo he's a pretty nuts late game drop that can finish the game up quickly if you can untap with him.
It wouldn't be wise to play your 8 mana investment without some sort of insurance in the form of Asceticism or Privelidged Position or Greaves. That being said Vorinclex is definitely one of greens great creatures that fuels massive Genesis Waves or other such shenanigens.
He's good in Azusa because he becomes a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for your opponents. Azusa can drop him so early in the game and is built to take advantage of his extra mana, so they MUST kill him, but whoever does will really destroy their tempo since they won't have much mana that early, making them easy prey for everyone else, even if the Vorinclex player is killed. Everyone will be reluctant to be the one to make the sacrifice. Later in the game, he's another mana doubler that can beat, which is also pretty useful.
If you're worried about his mana cost, I've found that there are plenty of fun ways to cheat him out. I often get to hide him under a bridge only to make him jump out and shout "Surprise!" This method effectively costs 2 mana, so if he gets taken out by a 2 mana spell, no worries, right?
It wouldn't be wise to play your 8 mana investment without some sort of insurance in the form of Asceticism or Privelidged Position or Greaves. That being said Vorinclex is definitely one of greens great creatures that fuels massive Genesis Waves or other such shenanigens.
Unfortunately that doesnt protect him from Wrath of Gods or Clones. I have cast a Vorinclex only to have the guy after me cast Phyrexian Metamorph. I've also found that by the time you have the mana to cast Vorin, other people will have alot of mana too and losing 3 of that mana for a turn really doesnt do much. I guess what I'm mostly disappointed about is how quickly he dies and leaves me with nothing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH: WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW BG WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW BG WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB USakashima the ImpostorU
He's supposed to be answered; if he's not, he straight out wins you the game. If other people have a lot of mana, and you're playing green and don't have significantly more than them, then you're probably doing something wrong. You've only talked about a few cases where he gets taken out quickly, and rightfully so. Just keep playing him, and eventually he'll win you the game. If he does survive, and you have a lot of mana but nothing to do with it, then you're also doing something wrong.
In all fairness, you could probably pop in a cheaper mana doubler instead, like Vernal Bloom in mono-G or Mana Reflection but mana doubling redundancy is amazing. The tempo you gain should put you in a winning position.
If you can ramp into him, do it. I don't understand why it isn't played in every single green deck.
1. It's a creature. It makes it tutorable in green, with Worldly Tutor, Time of Need and the ilk.
2. It's green Stax. How often do you see that? And very crippling stax, too.
3. It's a tutorable Mana Reflection in Green. Think about it. Just think about it.
4. It's a decently sized creature with relevant ways to push damage through.
5. Being a creature gives us much more uses and flexibility than regular enchantments, artifacts etc. It's easy to recur, reanimate, and cheat into play.
If he sticks on the board, your board position would have increased so much that it would be extremely difficult to counter him. At the very least, even if he gets killed, your opponents would still be slowed down to a certain degree.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH
BGJumpin' JaradsGB BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends RWG Marath Sunforger RWG WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
He's mediocre. I ran him in Sisay and never found myself actually wanting him. For 8 mana, I'd rather do almost anything else, and at 8 mana, I'm close to having enough to do just that if I don't already. In mono green he has a home, but that's more for a paucity of replacements than because of his own decency.
He's not a one sided Winter Orb, they still get a turn to mess around with their lands because of how his trigger works. The lack of ETB abilities is awful. He just sucked removal and died with no consolation prize. At least if a Kozilek or Terastodon dies, you've blown up a bunch a crap or drawn 4 cards. This guy just rolls over. He's amazing if he sticks, but it feels win more. You can't drop this guy and hope he'll turn a game around for you, that's not what he does.
He is just simple answer or die in most decks. If you run him in some land control deck he could be more. Just don't cast him when you NEED him to survive. That is silly.
I don't like him, mostly because of the "lands untap only every second turn" ability. It just brings the game down to a crawl. When a player plays that guy, I focus on that player with everything I got, until either Vorinclex is dead or that player. That thing is just so incredibly annoying.
So you're saying you don't like facing an opposing Vorinclex? That usually means the card is good, right? If the Vorinclex player drops Vorinclex "slows the game down to a crawl", he's doing it wrong, because all that extra mana should win him the game, or else he's going to die from the hate. He punishes the person who removes him to an extent, so the guy dropping him should still have an advantage over whoever removed him.
So you're saying you don't like facing an opposing Vorinclex? That usually means the card is good, right? If the Vorinclex player drops Vorinclex "slows the game down to a crawl", he's doing it wrong, because all that extra mana should win him the game, or else he's going to die from the hate. He punishes the person who removes him to an extent, so the guy dropping him should still have an advantage over whoever removed him.
No, you don't have an advantage because as I said, you've lost 8 mana and they've lost 2 (for 2 turns so that's 4). I feel like if I want to double my mana then I'd use Mana Reflection and if I wanted to stax out my opponent's I'd use Winter Orb. Yes, he's creature so he can be tutored for easily, but then Primeval Titan is worlds ahead as the #1 tutor target for ramp and I'd rather get Sundering Titan or Terastodon to disrupt my opponent's ramp because at least the lands are still gone if my creature is removed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH: WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW BG WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW BG WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB USakashima the ImpostorU
personally, Vorinclex has been amazing for me as a general. definitely has potential to force opponents into a lose lose situation, and repeatedly casting him can be downright crippling.
with that said, i do think you want to have the right deck for him. If your deck is all about huge bombs, he will fit right in. (and could possibly be one of the best). like Revolver said, you would definitely want to set him up somehow, whether it be hexproof, indestructible, or instant speed protection (Not of This World!!!! lol)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
I don't use because he is borderline broken/really not fun to play against. Sure he can be answered for a round until he gets re-animated. Many deck that I've seen that use him, use him in decks with lots of recursion. Even without heavy recursion he still is incredibly annoying. I just don't like cards that prevent the rest of the table from playing the game or at a severely reduced rate.
That said If you want him in a competitive deck then he's fine as long you have lots of recursion to create a soft lock otherwise he will just eat removal.
Also note that when it is tooth and nailed together with Palinchron, it is very likely to lead to a combo win of sorts.
My friend runs a really mean BUG list and he usually ends up getting out the Palinchron/Vorinclex combo. If nothing else, he lets you play more spells, bigger spells, and slow down your opponents. Plus a 7/6 body with trample...why not run him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
personally, Vorinclex has been amazing for me as a general. definitely has potential to force opponents into a lose lose situation, and repeatedly casting him can be downright crippling.
with that said, i do think you want to have the right deck for him. If your deck is all about huge bombs, he will fit right in. (and could possibly be one of the best). like Revolver said, you would definitely want to set him up somehow, whether it be hexproof, indestructible, or instant speed protection (Not of This World!!!! lol)
This. Vorinclex as a general means you just fill your deck with ramp and cast him, then one of two paths happen
A: they kill him. (T0)
T1. You spend the following turn ramping (or applying pressure, if you can already afford tax next turn).
T2: they can't do anything, they're still tapped out.
T3: Recast vorinclex.
B: they let him pass, and spend their turn as per usual (T0)
T1: you have min 18-20 mana, you apply TONS of pressure.
T2: they can't untap
T3: you win.
I can't speak for him as a card in a deck, but I do know he punishes people for dealing with him, he needs to be dealt with, and he doubles ALL your mana, regardless of color (or lack thereof). Sounds pretty good to me.
I played him for awhile, but he's honestly just unfun. The mana doubling isn't the problem, but stopping everyone else's lands from untapping makes the game really boring. Yeah, he'll win you the game, but no one will like you afterwards. Fun is what this format's about, right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've had several of my friends recommend this card to me, and pretty much every person I've met at my LGS. When using him, however, I have found him to be substantially sub par. He eats removal almost immediately and then I'm down 8 mana when the person who killed him is down 2, and I'm now target #1 for the table.
What do you guys think?
WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
BG
WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW
BG
WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB
USakashima the ImpostorU
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Unfortunately that doesnt protect him from Wrath of Gods or Clones. I have cast a Vorinclex only to have the guy after me cast Phyrexian Metamorph. I've also found that by the time you have the mana to cast Vorin, other people will have alot of mana too and losing 3 of that mana for a turn really doesnt do much. I guess what I'm mostly disappointed about is how quickly he dies and leaves me with nothing.
WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
BG
WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW
BG
WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB
USakashima the ImpostorU
In all fairness, you could probably pop in a cheaper mana doubler instead, like Vernal Bloom in mono-G or Mana Reflection but mana doubling redundancy is amazing. The tempo you gain should put you in a winning position.
RGodo, Bandit WarlordR
GSeton, Krosan ProtectorG
BGJarad, Golgari Lich LordGB
1. It's a creature. It makes it tutorable in green, with Worldly Tutor, Time of Need and the ilk.
2. It's green Stax. How often do you see that? And very crippling stax, too.
3. It's a tutorable Mana Reflection in Green. Think about it. Just think about it.
4. It's a decently sized creature with relevant ways to push damage through.
5. Being a creature gives us much more uses and flexibility than regular enchantments, artifacts etc. It's easy to recur, reanimate, and cheat into play.
If he sticks on the board, your board position would have increased so much that it would be extremely difficult to counter him. At the very least, even if he gets killed, your opponents would still be slowed down to a certain degree.
BG Jumpin' JaradsGB
BB Furry Rat Lady: The Deck BB
UU I Don't Ever Want To Explain How Knowledge Pool Works Ever Again UU
RR This Is My Suika Cosplay Lightning Bolt Deck RR
WW Mangara exiles both permanents and friends
RWG Marath Sunforger RWG
WUBRG Cromat and Friends WUBRG
--
BG Savra, Rocking Attrition (retired) GB
BB">Shauku, Envoy of the End (retired) BB
BU Wrexial, the Tentacled H beast(retired)UB
BB Endrek Sahr, Master Commander (retired )BB
UU [PRIMER] Talrand's Terrible Tempo Terror Teatime (retired) UU
UBW Senator Trio - Three Heads Are Better Than One (retired) UBW
BB MONSTRUAL BLEEDING EREBOS SADISM (retired) BB
He's not a one sided Winter Orb, they still get a turn to mess around with their lands because of how his trigger works. The lack of ETB abilities is awful. He just sucked removal and died with no consolation prize. At least if a Kozilek or Terastodon dies, you've blown up a bunch a crap or drawn 4 cards. This guy just rolls over. He's amazing if he sticks, but it feels win more. You can't drop this guy and hope he'll turn a game around for you, that's not what he does.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
So you're saying you don't like facing an opposing Vorinclex? That usually means the card is good, right? If the Vorinclex player drops Vorinclex "slows the game down to a crawl", he's doing it wrong, because all that extra mana should win him the game, or else he's going to die from the hate. He punishes the person who removes him to an extent, so the guy dropping him should still have an advantage over whoever removed him.
No, you don't have an advantage because as I said, you've lost 8 mana and they've lost 2 (for 2 turns so that's 4). I feel like if I want to double my mana then I'd use Mana Reflection and if I wanted to stax out my opponent's I'd use Winter Orb. Yes, he's creature so he can be tutored for easily, but then Primeval Titan is worlds ahead as the #1 tutor target for ramp and I'd rather get Sundering Titan or Terastodon to disrupt my opponent's ramp because at least the lands are still gone if my creature is removed.
WUBRGChild of AlaraGRBUW
BG
WUBRGAtogatogGRBUW
BG
WBSelenia, Dark AngelBW
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafGB
USakashima the ImpostorU
with that said, i do think you want to have the right deck for him. If your deck is all about huge bombs, he will fit right in. (and could possibly be one of the best). like Revolver said, you would definitely want to set him up somehow, whether it be hexproof, indestructible, or instant speed protection (Not of This World!!!! lol)
Check out NoShyfts, the webcomic that I illustrate for!
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
GGG Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger GGG
GWB Teneb, the Harvester GWB
That said If you want him in a competitive deck then he's fine as long you have lots of recursion to create a soft lock otherwise he will just eat removal.
My Saffi deck
EDH: Olivia Voldaren's Meatgrinder
My friend runs a really mean BUG list and he usually ends up getting out the Palinchron/Vorinclex combo. If nothing else, he lets you play more spells, bigger spells, and slow down your opponents. Plus a 7/6 body with trample...why not run him.
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
This. Vorinclex as a general means you just fill your deck with ramp and cast him, then one of two paths happen
A: they kill him. (T0)
T1. You spend the following turn ramping (or applying pressure, if you can already afford tax next turn).
T2: they can't do anything, they're still tapped out.
T3: Recast vorinclex.
B: they let him pass, and spend their turn as per usual (T0)
T1: you have min 18-20 mana, you apply TONS of pressure.
T2: they can't untap
T3: you win.
I can't speak for him as a card in a deck, but I do know he punishes people for dealing with him, he needs to be dealt with, and he doubles ALL your mana, regardless of color (or lack thereof). Sounds pretty good to me.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW