5 mana is too much for a tutor. 8 mana kicker for 2 cards is also too much. (both costs a full turn when you need them the most). I'd rather use stuff like T&N to just cheat stuff into play for a wallop effect than burn a turn to setup a drop.
In big-mana decks its definitely something to consider. mid-to-late game drop cabal coffers and then cast and flashback for grim discovery plus two big threats. As long as you have enough mana to drop a doubling method and the five mana and tutor for something that can get it back, you're going to force opponents to deal with it or get crushed by your mana advantage.
It should also be noted that Standard rares -- as the term implies -- are usually driven more by demand from Standard rather than by the demand in Commander.
It'll never be more than a dollar; much like Demonic Collusion it's a very powerful tutor that will win games if left unchecked, but is often too expensive to use well.
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Might be able to replace Diabolic Tutor once and for all.
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No matter the cost, tutoring for any 2 cards is very powerful. The cost is high enough that this won't ever see Standard play and thus, won't be that expensive. However, it could still be very powerful here. First off, this is card advantage - this one card is going to replace itself with any three of choice. That's potent. 2 will come at the same time; that's also potent. I'm not saying it'll be amazing (Demonic Collusion never really felt that great), but I imagine it'll find its way into a few decks, at least.
The 4 in the top right corner, and the word "Sorcery" in the middle.
Does this format really drive card prices? Absent any hard data, my hunch is that it barely makes a dent. Might turn a $0.50 card from 10 years ago into a $1.00 card, but for new sets I'd guess that EDH is about the 6th most influential format in setting prices.
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
I can see it having a place in monoblack EDH decks, but they're pretty weak to begin with.
The 4 in the top right corner, and the word "Sorcery" in the middle.
Does this format really drive card prices? Absent any hard data, my hunch is that it barely makes a dent. Might turn a $0.50 card from 10 years ago into a $1.00 card, but for new sets I'd guess that EDH is about the 6th most influential format in setting prices.
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
I can see it having a place in monoblack EDH decks, but they're pretty weak to begin with.
The 4 in the top right corner, and the word "Sorcery" in the middle.
Does this format really drive card prices? Absent any hard data, my hunch is that it barely makes a dent. Might turn a $0.50 card from 10 years ago into a $1.00 card, but for new sets I'd guess that EDH is about the 6th most influential format in setting prices.
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
I can see it having a place in monoblack EDH decks, but they're pretty weak to begin with.
Commander indeed does drive card prices up. See Lightning Greaves, Rhystic Study as examples. I know there are a few more, but I can't think of anymore at the moment
But you're right in a sense. Since Increasing Ambition is currently available in Standard, it is readily available. It doesn't look like it'll make an impact due to its cost, hence the ultra-cheap cost
Once it rotates out, the price may increase, but again, I agree it won't bust the wallet anytime soon
Ill definitely be picking up a few but the card is mostly casual. The CMC is too high for competitive. And also, the foils are what should end up pricey if anything.
That said, EDH does not always move prices. For every one example of cards that went up "because of EDH", there are many other EDH staple prices that would stay put. See Archon of Justice, Rite of Replication, Terastodon, etc.
Also consider that while it does help you tutor a few cards, I know of few tables which will not be convinced by "hey, that guy is tutoring two of his combo pieces; kill him"
I think the way EDH drove up prices is something that happened to older cards that people had thrown in junk rare bins and dealers never actively attempted to stock.
Once EDH became popular people scrambled to find copies of these former junk rares and drove the prices up.
I don't think you will see that as much going foreward. As new cards that have EDH potential get printed, dealers will not just throw them in bulk rare piles. They will get stocked in appropriately higher quantities.
Also if you look at the card prices that EDH drove up, they are largely pre mythic rares (which I think drove up back sales in general quite a bit). With more packs being opened there is a larger supply of them available which is why lands that would have cost 10$+ pre mythic now cost 3-5$. This probably had a bigger effect than the scarcity.
As far as the card itself goes, I wouldn't be surprised to find some interesting chains of cards to go through to combo out. If you use it to find the second half of an infinite mana combo, the win condition is in our graveyard ready to go.
I think overall it might just be win more though, or a very slow win condition.
Commander indeed does drive card prices up. See Lightning Greaves, Rhystic Study as examples. I know there are a few more, but I can't think of anymore at the moment
Sure, EDH drives prices on some things (after all, Legacy isn't the reason why Command Tower is a $2 "common"), but it's far outclassed by the other formats. And tbh, I have NO PROBLEM with that. Gets me my cards for cheaper, especially the big mana spells that will never see competitive play in any other format, but are practically staples in EDH
When cards like demonic tutor, vampiric tutor, entomb, and liliana ves are available.... there's very little reason to time walk yourself to pull a combo. If you cast it, you casted a bad diabolic tutor, if you flash it back, you basically time walked yourself and gave the whole table a reason to not give you another turn.
Anyone who compares this to tooth and nail is crazy, tooth and nail puts creatures into play... and let's be honest, no one ever plays tooth unless they have what they want to drop into play in hand or they have 9 mana.
If you can make the mana to use it, this card is just bonkers! It's not Demonic Tutor but you should had at least 10 tutor effect in any mono-black list as far as I'm concerned.
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
I hate this argument for EDH. That is a line of thinking from other formats, and just isn't true in this format. Making a big mana play should put you in an advantageous position to win soon, but saying that you should win ON THE SPOT every time you spend 8 mana is ludicrous considering you have 3-5 other players that can potentially thwart you.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
I absolutely adore the card for EDH. Really people, it's a tutor with FLASHBACK. And then it turns into double diabolic tutor when flashbacked. This card is the nuts; tutor up coffers the first time, power out the flashback with said coffers, getting any 2 card combo or just 2 really good cards in your highlander deck. I'm going to run this card in every black EDH deck I own pretty much. If you think this card is too 'expensive' in terms of cost, why do I see people running around with all these 7, 8, and 9 drops in this format? It's because they're gamebreaking cards and this card is rather gamebreaking since you get to tutor for 3 cards total with just ONE card i.e. you turned this one card into 3 cards. Sound familiar? Yes this is pretty much ambition's cost, a. call, and all the draw 3's in the format only it's a tutor that is more expensive but still EDH is a tutor driven format.
Clearly this isn't as broken as demonic tutor and vamp tutor but it is still a valid card in this format. The comparison to tooth and nail is null and void since tooth and nail is green and look it costs 9 mana imagine that. For something to cost you that much mana it should win you the game if left unchecked and that's exactly what this card does for 8 mana; it sets you up to win the game the next turn.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
[/CARD].
Yeah, paying 8 mana in the main phase and not winning immediately is pretty normal in EDH. And unconditional tutoring for three card in two turns seems pretty powerful.
Thoughts? Evaluations? Insults?
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GVorinclexG -- RGodoR -- BSheoldredB -- UTalrandU -- WDarienW -- XKarnX -- WRBKaaliaBRW -- RUGMaelstrom WandererGUR
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EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
The 4 in the top right corner, and the word "Sorcery" in the middle.
Does this format really drive card prices? Absent any hard data, my hunch is that it barely makes a dent. Might turn a $0.50 card from 10 years ago into a $1.00 card, but for new sets I'd guess that EDH is about the 6th most influential format in setting prices.
If you're going to pay 8 mana during your main phase, you should win right then and there. Forget waiting another full turn to even begin to reap the rewards from that.
I can see it having a place in monoblack EDH decks, but they're pretty weak to begin with.
Just my 1/50th of Increasing Ambition.
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Commander indeed does drive card prices up. See Lightning Greaves, Rhystic Study as examples. I know there are a few more, but I can't think of anymore at the moment
But you're right in a sense. Since Increasing Ambition is currently available in Standard, it is readily available. It doesn't look like it'll make an impact due to its cost, hence the ultra-cheap cost
Once it rotates out, the price may increase, but again, I agree it won't bust the wallet anytime soon
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Also consider that while it does help you tutor a few cards, I know of few tables which will not be convinced by "hey, that guy is tutoring two of his combo pieces; kill him"
Once EDH became popular people scrambled to find copies of these former junk rares and drove the prices up.
I don't think you will see that as much going foreward. As new cards that have EDH potential get printed, dealers will not just throw them in bulk rare piles. They will get stocked in appropriately higher quantities.
Also if you look at the card prices that EDH drove up, they are largely pre mythic rares (which I think drove up back sales in general quite a bit). With more packs being opened there is a larger supply of them available which is why lands that would have cost 10$+ pre mythic now cost 3-5$. This probably had a bigger effect than the scarcity.
As far as the card itself goes, I wouldn't be surprised to find some interesting chains of cards to go through to combo out. If you use it to find the second half of an infinite mana combo, the win condition is in our graveyard ready to go.
I think overall it might just be win more though, or a very slow win condition.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Anyone who compares this to tooth and nail is crazy, tooth and nail puts creatures into play... and let's be honest, no one ever plays tooth unless they have what they want to drop into play in hand or they have 9 mana.
I hate this argument for EDH. That is a line of thinking from other formats, and just isn't true in this format. Making a big mana play should put you in an advantageous position to win soon, but saying that you should win ON THE SPOT every time you spend 8 mana is ludicrous considering you have 3-5 other players that can potentially thwart you.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
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BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
Clearly this isn't as broken as demonic tutor and vamp tutor but it is still a valid card in this format. The comparison to tooth and nail is null and void since tooth and nail is green and look it costs 9 mana imagine that. For something to cost you that much mana it should win you the game if left unchecked and that's exactly what this card does for 8 mana; it sets you up to win the game the next turn.
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Yeah, paying 8 mana in the main phase and not winning immediately is pretty normal in EDH. And unconditional tutoring for three card in two turns seems pretty powerful.
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