Very true, I was just countering his rule idea (it was a good one actually)
This was the table I was at
Rafiq
Olivia
Scion
Doran
Azami (me)
Can anyone tell me honestly what the odds are that at a competitive table, with those colors, no one is playing artifact/creature removal nor counters?
My whole thing is that if a card/combo beats you, find a way to either stop or negate it. Adapt your deck or die more or less.
I also generally do the table a favor and, if I think I can combo off on my next turn, I'll announce "I think I win on my next turn" at the end of my current one. I don't get any more specific than that, but it does give them a heads up. Of course, this sometimes leads to silly plays like them destroying my Primeval Titan but leaving me Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple + Skullclamp + Birthing Pod, but *shrug*. Not going to do all of their job for them.
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My whole thing is that if a card/combo beats you, find a way to either stop or negate it. Adapt your deck or die more or less.
Or apparently you make a rule against it. If they don't find that kinda play fun you are not likely to change their mind. And trying to do it with the "adapt or die" line of logic certainly won't do it. There are plenty of big game ending plays that are not infinite. Honestly the infinity ones are just boring and uninteresting. People are much less likely to ***** if you win with a Myojin of Seeing Wind/Eureka/Akroma's Memorial or Wound Reflection/Repercussions/Blasphamas Act final play. And honestly it adds some fun and randomness to it. Where as seeing the same 3 card combo auto win gets old fast. And the end effect is the same most times.
Or apparently you make a rule against it. If they don't find that kinda play fun you are not likely to change their mind. And trying to do it with the "adapt or die" line of logic certainly won't do it. There are plenty of big game ending plays that are not infinite. Honestly the infinity ones are just boring and uninteresting. People are much less likely to ***** if you win with a Myojin of Seeing Wind/Eureka/Akroma's Memorial or Wound Reflection/Repercussions/Blasphamas Act final play. And honestly it adds some fun and randomness to it. Where as seeing the same 3 card combo auto win gets old fast. And the end effect is the same most times.
The thing is that I don't try to end games in the same way. I follow Blackjack's logic of EDH deckbuilding in that your deck should have multiple ways to win. Adapt or die goes along with that. If you lose one way them others should be there. But when I have all of my other wincons stripped out and I cant use my infinite to win, then im stuck....in a game....where I cant forfiet.....until I die. I drew out 4 hours later, because as soon as I was sad sacc'd, i wasnt a threat. My infinite combo would of ended the game at 1 am....not the 6 am it ended at. (it began around 1130 pm.)
I also generally do the table a favor and, if I think I can combo off on my next turn, I'll announce "I think I win on my next turn" at the end of my current one. I don't get any more specific than that, but it does give them a heads up. Of course, this sometimes leads to silly plays like them destroying my Primeval Titan but leaving me Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple + Skullclamp + Birthing Pod, but *shrug*. Not going to do all of their job for them.
And see, I'd be willing to do that as well. The game ended at 6 am when a guy dropped and epic struggle. I drew out 3 turns earlier.
The thing is that I don't try to end games in the same way. I follow Blackjack's logic of EDH deckbuilding in that your deck should have multiple ways to win. Adapt or die goes along with that. If you lose one way them others should be there. But when I have all of my other wincons stripped out and I cant use my infinite to win, then im stuck....in a game....where I cant forfiet.....until I die. I drew out 4 hours later, because as soon as I was sad sacc'd, i wasnt a threat. My infinite combo would of ended the game at 1 am....not the 6 am it ended at. (it began around 1130 pm.)
The easy answer is play a different deck. You can't force people to change. I am having similar issues in my current play group. They refuse to allow mass land wipes, but complain when green decks run away with most the games.
The easy answer is play a different deck. You can't force people to change. I am having similar issues in my current play group. They refuse to allow mass land wipes, but complain when green decks run away with most the games.
ask them to allow you once, and show them that you can stop it. The scion guy runs a pure reanimator and the rafiq guy runs control/aggro. My combo can easily slow them down, but their rules won't allow me.
The thing is that I know the most about edh, and I know infinite combos are not the end all, be all. Why do you think one deck doesn't dominate every other deck? there is enough variety and players to disallow said dominance.
Let me preface this by saying that, considering how vaguely they seem to be definging infinate, this probably won't convince them.
Run the Hinder + Tunnel Vision combo. Find other not quite infinite combos, and run them. Whenever they redefine infinite, find a new combo that blurrs the line. All the while, point out how stupid this rule is. Maybe you will convince them, but at the least It will be amusing.
Sidenote: What would they say about Volcano Hellion + Stuffy doll combo? Is it an infinite combo, considering Volcano Hellion itself inherently can deal as much damage as you want?
We have a house rule for my friends place:
-If you can go infinite you can only do it 5 times.
Also I play Ghave which is a combo mania I can go infinite multiple ways with multiple cards. Whenever we play at my LGS I always announce that I can go infinite at the beginning of my turn and ask if they can stop me. If they can't then we just shuffle and play another if they can then we just continue on our marry way. I feel like your playgroup is just being whiny.
We have a house rule for my friends place:
-If you can go infinite you can only do it 5 times.
Also I play Ghave which is a combo mania I can go infinite multiple ways with multiple cards. Whenever we play at my LGS I always announce that I can go infinite at the beginning of my turn and ask if they can stop me. If they can't then we just shuffle and play another if they can then we just continue on our marry way. I feel like your playgroup is just being whiny.
But see there rule is 1. My main ""infinite" combo is palin-tide. and thats to set up either a massive capsize or a memnarch theft and kill next turn
In that case, my favourite way of convincing playgroups would be to swap decks (you get them back at the end of session). That way, you get to show them that your combo is quite beatable (assuming that your opponent's deck is not totally junky ;)). As a practitioner of this rule, I can confirm that other benefits include: -
1. By actively trying to beat your deck, you get a better understanding of your deck (especially with regards to its strength, limitations, etc.)
2. You get to understand other deck types.
3. Variety is fun
But see there rule is 1. My main ""infinite" combo is palin-tide. and thats to set up either a massive capsize or a memnarch theft and kill next turn
You can't see why they might find that kinda lame and a uninteresting ending game after game? Once in a while sure. But over and over, meh. High-Tide/Palinchron is probably the most over used combo only 2nd to Sharuum based combos.
Why not be innovative and create something new and interesting? Make a deck that ends games in multiple different ways(aka not all infinity combo) so that people aren't bored of it after 3 games. It will be more interesting for you and them.
You can't see why they might find that kinda lame and a uninteresting ending game after game? Once in a while sure. But over and over, meh. High-Tide/Palinchron is probably the most over used combo only 2nd to Sharuum based combos.
Why not be innovative and create something new and interesting? Make a deck that ends games in multiple different ways(aka not all infinity combo) so that people aren't bored of it after 3 games. It will be more interesting for you and them.
Or just find a more like minded group, *gasp*.
Tantarus, In all the games ive used azami, I've never gotten the combo out quickly. I run a political Azami and staying on top of mana is important for me to make sure that no one fluke wins. My real wincon in Azami is a Guile equipped with a Empyrial Plate and a Meishin, The Mind Cage and I swing for 6. swing for 6. swing for 6.......so on, so forth.
Azami has been running for 1 year now and no one is tired of it, even though I haven't changed a card in it since I built it. Not my casual group, not the people at my LGS (The call it the Arbiter, because I ensure that no one gets screwed by bad draws.) The only ones who had issue were this competitive group and it was because of that 1 combo. I'll probably see them in 2 weeks and let them know that if I do intend to combo out or the such, that I'll give them 1 turn warning, as someone said earlier. Would you see that as fair?
sorry, but to them, the only magic number is 1 in their case. I also find it funny that im the head EDH guy there and they neuter my decks with that. I play with a casual edh group that has no issue with me doing it.
TL;DR my issues:
competitive group has a bigger issue with infinite than a casual group, and all I want is a massive amount of blue to stop a token onslaught.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Smile, and promise to only do it once each turn...
Until they blur that line and say that since I can go infinite (potentially) its not allowed.
I think I'll just run a dick deck and explain the 3x Faceless Butcher is infinite.... Palin-tide is just large. All Islands are being doubled. There are 2 decks with U, its not like they can't stop it. Hell, does this look like an infinite comb to you...or is it stalling
Tantarus, In all the games ive used azami, I've never gotten the combo out quickly. I run a political Azami and staying on top of mana is important for me to make sure that no one fluke wins. My real wincon in Azami is a Guile equipped with a Empyrial Plate and a Meishin, The Mind Cage and I swing for 6. swing for 6. swing for 6.......so on, so forth.
Azami has been running for 1 year now and no one is tired of it, even though I haven't changed a card in it since I built it. Not my casual group, not the people at my LGS (The call it the Arbiter, because I ensure that no one gets screwed by bad draws.) The only ones who had issue were this competitive group and it was because of that 1 combo. I'll probably see them in 2 weeks and let them know that if I do intend to combo out or the such, that I'll give them 1 turn warning, as someone said earlier. Would you see that as fair?
If they made a rule against it. I am pretty sure they are tired of seeing it.
So then why did they start banning stuff your doing? Also it does seem funny as you call them your competitive group yet they have anti combo rules. Though I really don't think they have room to stand on if Niv/curiosity is okay still. You could just as easily use one turn non combo wins and avoid the conflict all together. While showing them that combo is not the end of the world.
So then why did they start banning stuff your doing? Also it does seem funny as you call them your competitive group yet they have anti combo rules. Though I really don't think they have room to stand on if Niv/curiosity is okay still. You could just as easily use one turn non combo wins and avoid the conflict all together. While showing them that combo is not the end of the world.
No clue, it was hour 3 of a game and it was 2am.... Hopefully, you wouldn't care what I did, you probably would of wanted sleep. I think the no infinites rule came from a multiplayer 2HG that they ran upstairs and thought "hey, edh is multiplayer, lets adapt the rule." My issue is that if EDH hits bigger and there are tourneys, you gotta expect combos like that. Niv and curiosity is limited by the cards in your deck. Although, palin-tide is limited by the mana i need. (i count the number of permanents i want to return to hand and *6 to see how many time i need to do to get my result. The lark/guide/station combo is limited by life. Hmmm....thanks tantarus, you gave me ammo.
I also generally do the table a favor and, if I think I can combo off on my next turn, I'll announce "I think I win on my next turn" at the end of my current one. I don't get any more specific than that, but it does give them a heads up. Of course, this sometimes leads to silly plays like them destroying my Primeval Titan but leaving me Gaea's Cradle + Deserted Temple + Skullclamp + Birthing Pod, but *shrug*. Not going to do all of their job for them.
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Or apparently you make a rule against it. If they don't find that kinda play fun you are not likely to change their mind. And trying to do it with the "adapt or die" line of logic certainly won't do it. There are plenty of big game ending plays that are not infinite. Honestly the infinity ones are just boring and uninteresting. People are much less likely to ***** if you win with a Myojin of Seeing Wind/Eureka/Akroma's Memorial or Wound Reflection/Repercussions/Blasphamas Act final play. And honestly it adds some fun and randomness to it. Where as seeing the same 3 card combo auto win gets old fast. And the end effect is the same most times.
The thing is that I don't try to end games in the same way. I follow Blackjack's logic of EDH deckbuilding in that your deck should have multiple ways to win. Adapt or die goes along with that. If you lose one way them others should be there. But when I have all of my other wincons stripped out and I cant use my infinite to win, then im stuck....in a game....where I cant forfiet.....until I die. I drew out 4 hours later, because as soon as I was sad sacc'd, i wasnt a threat. My infinite combo would of ended the game at 1 am....not the 6 am it ended at. (it began around 1130 pm.)
And see, I'd be willing to do that as well. The game ended at 6 am when a guy dropped and epic struggle. I drew out 3 turns earlier.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyThe easy answer is play a different deck. You can't force people to change. I am having similar issues in my current play group. They refuse to allow mass land wipes, but complain when green decks run away with most the games.
ask them to allow you once, and show them that you can stop it. The scion guy runs a pure reanimator and the rafiq guy runs control/aggro. My combo can easily slow them down, but their rules won't allow me.
The thing is that I know the most about edh, and I know infinite combos are not the end all, be all. Why do you think one deck doesn't dominate every other deck? there is enough variety and players to disallow said dominance.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyRun the Hinder + Tunnel Vision combo. Find other not quite infinite combos, and run them. Whenever they redefine infinite, find a new combo that blurrs the line. All the while, point out how stupid this rule is. Maybe you will convince them, but at the least It will be amusing.
Sidenote: What would they say about Volcano Hellion + Stuffy doll combo? Is it an infinite combo, considering Volcano Hellion itself inherently can deal as much damage as you want?
-If you can go infinite you can only do it 5 times.
Also I play Ghave which is a combo mania I can go infinite multiple ways with multiple cards. Whenever we play at my LGS I always announce that I can go infinite at the beginning of my turn and ask if they can stop me. If they can't then we just shuffle and play another if they can then we just continue on our marry way. I feel like your playgroup is just being whiny.
But see there rule is 1. My main ""infinite" combo is palin-tide. and thats to set up either a massive capsize or a memnarch theft and kill next turn
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicy1. By actively trying to beat your deck, you get a better understanding of your deck (especially with regards to its strength, limitations, etc.)
2. You get to understand other deck types.
3. Variety is fun
You can't see why they might find that kinda lame and a uninteresting ending game after game? Once in a while sure. But over and over, meh. High-Tide/Palinchron is probably the most over used combo only 2nd to Sharuum based combos.
Why not be innovative and create something new and interesting? Make a deck that ends games in multiple different ways(aka not all infinity combo) so that people aren't bored of it after 3 games. It will be more interesting for you and them.
Or just find a more like minded group, *gasp*.
Tantarus, In all the games ive used azami, I've never gotten the combo out quickly. I run a political Azami and staying on top of mana is important for me to make sure that no one fluke wins. My real wincon in Azami is a Guile equipped with a Empyrial Plate and a Meishin, The Mind Cage and I swing for 6. swing for 6. swing for 6.......so on, so forth.
Azami has been running for 1 year now and no one is tired of it, even though I haven't changed a card in it since I built it. Not my casual group, not the people at my LGS (The call it the Arbiter, because I ensure that no one gets screwed by bad draws.) The only ones who had issue were this competitive group and it was because of that 1 combo. I'll probably see them in 2 weeks and let them know that if I do intend to combo out or the such, that I'll give them 1 turn warning, as someone said earlier. Would you see that as fair?
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Until they blur that line and say that since I can go infinite (potentially) its not allowed.
I think I'll just run a dick deck and explain the 3x Faceless Butcher is infinite.... Palin-tide is just large. All Islands are being doubled. There are 2 decks with U, its not like they can't stop it. Hell, does this look like an infinite comb to you...or is it stalling
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540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyIf they made a rule against it. I am pretty sure they are tired of seeing it.
Actually, they just started getting into EDH.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySo then why did they start banning stuff your doing? Also it does seem funny as you call them your competitive group yet they have anti combo rules. Though I really don't think they have room to stand on if Niv/curiosity is okay still. You could just as easily use one turn non combo wins and avoid the conflict all together. While showing them that combo is not the end of the world.
No clue, it was hour 3 of a game and it was 2am.... Hopefully, you wouldn't care what I did, you probably would of wanted sleep. I think the no infinites rule came from a multiplayer 2HG that they ran upstairs and thought "hey, edh is multiplayer, lets adapt the rule." My issue is that if EDH hits bigger and there are tourneys, you gotta expect combos like that. Niv and curiosity is limited by the cards in your deck. Although, palin-tide is limited by the mana i need. (i count the number of permanents i want to return to hand and *6 to see how many time i need to do to get my result. The lark/guide/station combo is limited by life. Hmmm....thanks tantarus, you gave me ammo.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicy