Need for Speed; Run an abundance of 1 mana permanents to enable my 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th turns when I'm not casting/recasting or putting counters on ashling. Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top, Expedition Map, Skullclamp, Basilisk Collar, Gamble, Dragonmaster Outcast, Spikeshot Elder, and Genju of the Spires. I think need for speed is a reasonable cost since I am running 46 lands but doing that for a 6 drop means two turns before I can cast a 7 drop. That being said, I don't usually curve out very well due to being creature light even though I am working on that. I am already running Anger and Urabrask but my friends love exiling Anger (and graveyards) and killing Urabrask so...
Devastating Summons; Already run Keldon Firebombers and Impending Disaster and have 46 lands in my deck so I recover pretty quickly. With haste enablers and just being able to generate a superior board presence and then wipe the lands I could see this being a huge beating. There aren't a ton of counterspells in my group but I do completely understand how horrible it would be to get the land destruction countered after I sacrificed off my lands for two tokens but I also have been playing long enough to, for the most part, be able to play around counter magic. I also probably would never play it with impending disaster due to the card having to make it around the board once before it does anything. It could also be a finisher late game after blowing up ashling if I have a bunch of lands in play and a haste enabler. Have been thinking about running Myojin of Infinite Rage and Decree of Annihilation. Myojin is a huge indestructible threat that can just win the game if it comes out after someone wrathed or if I have a superior board presence and Decree lets me have an out (for everybody) to opposing ulamogs or just use it as a cantripping armageddon.
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero; Just started running Cyclops Gladiator but haven't gotten to play with it yet. The reason I'm drawn to these two creatures is that I also run an equipment package of Loxodon Warhammer, Argentum Armor, Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang, Basilisk Collar, and Skullclamp which can all give them added value. I will be getting batterskull when they stop being $15. They also help me get through early game against the ton of weenie utility guys my friends run. I run Hateflayer and get a ton of value out of it when it sticks. That's because it's wither to take down biggens and that unblocked it can dome for 10 per attack. Just not sure if it would be as good if it didn't have wither and couldn't hit players. I also like tahngarth because it's got vigilance so it can attack, stand in front of an opposing threat, and ping their utility guy off the board.
Bloodfire Colossus; I already run Earthquake, Fault Line, Molten Disaster, Inferno, and Comet Storm. One of the reasons I do so well with my deck is that I can shred through everyones 40 life in a multiplayer game very quickly or keep my opponents off their threats and lands enough that my cheap little general can get there. If I could afford Rolling Earthquake I would play it. I also like that at best it's a 6/6 beater that can finish someone off instant speed when it gets close enough and at worst is a sorcery speed inferno that costs 1R more. The scary part is the 9 mana needed to cast it and have the R up to use it in response to removal. With almost any two of my mana rocks or doublers I can see it being a turn 5 play but I guess I'm afraid of it in my opening hand when I'm also trying to play the LD game or top decking it the turn after I played my LD.
Burning Sands; I'm afraid this will be the same trap that Vicious Shadows fealt like for me. I like that it's 5 mana instead of 7. I like that the decks that ramp tons of lands into play often also dump lots of creatures into play so it'll sort of scale to the number of lands you play and can keep people off more expensive generals if I get it out early enough but all those green decks are also welcome to run as many variations of naturalize as they want. Considering I very rarely have multiple threats in play and have no token hoard type cards in the deck oustide of Mogg Infestation, which I have never cast on myself in this deck, it shouldn't ever effect me more then my opponents.
Greater Gargadon; I don't have token armys to sacrifice. I don't have multiple permanents that I would want to trade for a 9/7 with no evasion. The reason I am even considering this card is it's ability to save my general from tuck effects. I like that it can come out turn 1 before my general and completely negate the non counterspell tuck effects (which cost more then my general). I could also see it being useful with the LD. Otherwise I'm not sold despite everyone's love of it and see it as being a horrible late game draw. I can make kobold tokens off kher keep or sheep from springjack pasture to sacrifice to it except that is a huge mana cost over time for what is, again, a 9/7 with no evasion.
Which of these are fools gold or and which am I the fool for not already running them?
I wouldn't use Devastating Summons because you will be in serious trouble if anyone else can answer your elementals.
Greater Gargadon is awesome though, he is very useful as a finisher if needed as he can be a 9/7 haste for one mana if needed, otherwise just suspend him as soon as possible and then use his ability as a sac outlet until you get your giant creature.
you want to be able to pump a ton of mana into Ashling, and to be able to cast her as many times as possible, so 46 lands is pretty necessary, and you don't want to kill too many of them, if you can help it.
I think that Anger and Urabrask are your best options for haste, but if you need more, I'd consider Mass Hysteria before Need for Speed. Lands are important for Ashling, since she's so mana hungry, and I wouldn't be too willing to sacrifice them.
I don't know that I would play a ton of land destruction or effects that sacrifice lands, like Impending Disaster, Keldon Firebombers or Devastating Summons. All you need to do is get in for a little bit of damage and then cast Ashling a bunch of times, and lands are very important for that.
Tahngrath is fine; though he might have some trouble getting too much done without equipment. He's probably better than Cyclops Gladiator though, since his ability can be activated at instant speed.
Bloodfire Colossus is also fine, though I'm not sure if it's better or worse than more burn like Molten Disaster or Rolling Thunder.
Burning Sands is VERY good, and you should almost certainly be playing it. While you have lands to spare, and won't be too creature heavy, besides ashling, you can put other players in a position where it's difficult to cast their important spells. The key is to minimize it's impact on yourself by limiting the number of creatures you're running.
Lastly, Gargadon is fine if you really need to protect your general, but I'd run lands like High Market and Miren, the Moaning Well first.
I wouldn't use Devastating Summons because you will be in serious trouble if anyone else can answer your elementals.
I was only planning on using it in conjunction with land destruction when the blue players are tapped out or with a haste enabler after wrathing the board and bringing whoever is left within range of hitting them off my tokens in that same turn could win. If you think about it as a late game card, having 6+ lands in play gives you 12+ damage.
Greater Gargadon is awesome though, he is very useful as a finisher if needed as he can be a 9/7 haste for one mana if needed, otherwise just suspend him as soon as possible and then use his ability as a sac outlet until you get your giant creature.
That's why I'm not sure of it is that I have a bunch of giant creatures already. Do I really need the sacrifice outlet? I'm just not sure. Do I really want a bigger then craw wurm? Not really.
you want to be able to pump a ton of mana into Ashling, and to be able to cast her as many times as possible, so 46 lands is pretty necessary, and you don't want to kill too many of them, if you can help it.
Been playing Ashling for about 6 months and only added the LD after seeing how quick I could recover after one of my friends blew up all the lands at like 3 months in. It really works very very well. My 46 lands without any land thinning means I recover much quicker then the rest of my opponents often do.
I think that Anger and Urabrask are your best options for haste, but if you need more, I'd consider Mass Hysteria before Need for Speed. Lands are important for Ashling, since she's so mana hungry, and I wouldn't be too willing to sacrifice them.
Terribly afraid of giving my opponents haste. The games can often desolve into 3v1 and I don't want to have 3 turns of surprise hasty biggen coming at me. I'm not saying Need for Speed is good but losing the lands isn't that big a deal in ashling. Yes, she is mana hungry, but by mid game I'm tapping for 4+ from mana rocks alone and have probably stuck a mana doubler that may or may not have been destroyed. I've got the mana production down.
I don't know that I would play a ton of land destruction or effects that sacrifice lands, like Impending Disaster, Keldon Firebombers or Devastating Summons. All you need to do is get in for a little bit of damage and then cast Ashling a bunch of times, and lands are very important for that.
You're right that Ashling is a huge part of my game plan. I have cast her for 12 mana once. Granted I was tapping for over 20 with the doublers and mana rocks, but that's not really the point. Also, I don't want to cast ashling more then once. I want to cast her once, put a crap load of counters on her and attack with her. The only time I want to cast her again is after I blew her up in response to removal because my opponents wanted to play a threat they needed to stick.
Tahngrath is fine; though he might have some trouble getting too much done without equipment. He's probably better than Cyclops Gladiator though, since his ability can be activated at instant speed.
I was thinking sort of the same thing. I like that they both offer early game weenie removal and with basilisk collar can trade for much bigger guys but I'm just not certain on their worth. Haven't gotten to try them yet.
Bloodfire Colossus is also fine, though I'm not sure if it's better or worse than more burn like Molten Disaster or Rolling Thunder.
I already run molten disaster. Rolling Thunder is bad because it divides the damage up. I don't want to spend 14 mana to deal 4 points of damage to each of my three opponents. I'm already running all the "each player" x cost burn I can find outside of Rolling Earthquake which, at over $100 a copy, is too expensive for my budget
Burning Sands is VERY good, and you should almost certainly be playing it. While you have lands to spare, and won't be too creature heavy, besides ashling, you can put other players in a position where it's difficult to cast their important spells. The key is to minimize it's impact on yourself by limiting the number of creatures you're running.
Will have to try it out.
Lastly, Gargadon is fine if you really need to protect your general, but I'd run lands like High Market and Miren, the Moaning Well first.
Miren the moaning well means leaving 4 mana untapped to prevent my general from a 1 of spell they might have in hand. High market is possibly worth a shot but I'm curious then if gargadon isn't better since it doesn't require me to keep mana up, doesn't die to land destruction, and both cost me a card.
Ask around, you will find that the gargadon is extremely useful. Solution to remove effects, steal, etc. High Market is soso. Everyone play land removal, and if you are playing bloodmoon/magus of teh moon (which you should be) you can get screwed over.
Said all ready, but burning sands is amazing. It really is.
Are you running crucible of worlds? Need for speed may be acceptable then.
I recommend using Siege of Towers over Devastating Summons for lategame. You get a lot more bang for your buck and between mana rocks and doublers you can dish out a lot of damage right off the bat.
Edit: It's also a two card combo with Aggravated Assault for what it's worth
RRRDo Not Pursue Lu Bu!!!RRR UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
Ted Elderhi; Blood moon and magus of the moon are only going to neuter like two decks in my group. If everyone ran more non basics I'd be all over it but we're a bunch of casual scrubs and it's the same reason I don't run Wake of Destruction, it'd only really cripple one player maybe two. Everybody wants to play so when we all lose our lands or we all are down to just three lands nobody feels like they're the only one that's doomed. Mostly because I play with my friends over a beer or nine and not randoms at the store trying to combo out turn 4.
I have thought very seriously about getting a copy of crucible in an effort to be able to get my couple of utility lands back when I have to pull the trigger on the LD late game. But I already recover pretty fast with as many lands as I'm running and at $25 it's not worth it to me.
AsianHammer; I completely misread rolling thunder to be a variant of fireball without a kicker. I didn't realise I could clear dudes board without wasting mana and ping faces for the difference. I did already put devil's play in it for the tiny bit of card advantage it provides and that it's removal early game and late game with the mana engines online I can blast for a bunch
Fervor is what you mean. I've got two haste enablers already. I was just looking for something that I could get online without interupting my early game plan of each interval of 2 mana going to ashling.
Outfoxies; I really like Siege of Towers. Thank you for suggesting that. I didn't know it existed. Obviously it is entirely a late game card but I could see it being a fun finisher if I can get and keep my mana doublers on line.
I understand how aggrivated assualt can be a combo since it is untapping your lands that you turned into creatures but aren't you tapping your lands to turn your other lands into creatures and then attacking with those lands so they're tapped and then having to tap more lands to pay for aggravated assault to untap those few creatures? Apparently I don't understand.
For the sake of argument, let's say you have six mountains untapped and animated with siege of towers (also they're not summoning sick). Attack with one 3/1, then during the proceeding main phase, tap your other animated guys to use aggravated assault, which untaps all six mountains. After that it's lather rinse repeat until everyone is dead.
As far as infinite combos go, it's pretty easy to disrupt. Having to win through combat damage can sometimes be tricky, especially with Propaganda effects (unless you happen to cast Flame Fusillade). In my opinion they really should've printed AA to say "untap all creatures that attacked this turn" like the other multiple battle phase effects.
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EDH Decks:
RRRDo Not Pursue Lu Bu!!!RRR UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
Need for Speed; Run an abundance of 1 mana permanents to enable my 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th turns when I'm not casting/recasting or putting counters on ashling. Sol Ring, Sensei's Divining Top, Expedition Map, Skullclamp, Basilisk Collar, Gamble, Dragonmaster Outcast, Spikeshot Elder, and Genju of the Spires. I think need for speed is a reasonable cost since I am running 46 lands but doing that for a 6 drop means two turns before I can cast a 7 drop. That being said, I don't usually curve out very well due to being creature light even though I am working on that. I am already running Anger and Urabrask but my friends love exiling Anger (and graveyards) and killing Urabrask so...
Devastating Summons; Already run Keldon Firebombers and Impending Disaster and have 46 lands in my deck so I recover pretty quickly. With haste enablers and just being able to generate a superior board presence and then wipe the lands I could see this being a huge beating. There aren't a ton of counterspells in my group but I do completely understand how horrible it would be to get the land destruction countered after I sacrificed off my lands for two tokens but I also have been playing long enough to, for the most part, be able to play around counter magic. I also probably would never play it with impending disaster due to the card having to make it around the board once before it does anything. It could also be a finisher late game after blowing up ashling if I have a bunch of lands in play and a haste enabler. Have been thinking about running Myojin of Infinite Rage and Decree of Annihilation. Myojin is a huge indestructible threat that can just win the game if it comes out after someone wrathed or if I have a superior board presence and Decree lets me have an out (for everybody) to opposing ulamogs or just use it as a cantripping armageddon.
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero; Just started running Cyclops Gladiator but haven't gotten to play with it yet. The reason I'm drawn to these two creatures is that I also run an equipment package of Loxodon Warhammer, Argentum Armor, Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang, Basilisk Collar, and Skullclamp which can all give them added value. I will be getting batterskull when they stop being $15. They also help me get through early game against the ton of weenie utility guys my friends run. I run Hateflayer and get a ton of value out of it when it sticks. That's because it's wither to take down biggens and that unblocked it can dome for 10 per attack. Just not sure if it would be as good if it didn't have wither and couldn't hit players. I also like tahngarth because it's got vigilance so it can attack, stand in front of an opposing threat, and ping their utility guy off the board.
Bloodfire Colossus; I already run Earthquake, Fault Line, Molten Disaster, Inferno, and Comet Storm. One of the reasons I do so well with my deck is that I can shred through everyones 40 life in a multiplayer game very quickly or keep my opponents off their threats and lands enough that my cheap little general can get there. If I could afford Rolling Earthquake I would play it. I also like that at best it's a 6/6 beater that can finish someone off instant speed when it gets close enough and at worst is a sorcery speed inferno that costs 1R more. The scary part is the 9 mana needed to cast it and have the R up to use it in response to removal. With almost any two of my mana rocks or doublers I can see it being a turn 5 play but I guess I'm afraid of it in my opening hand when I'm also trying to play the LD game or top decking it the turn after I played my LD.
Burning Sands; I'm afraid this will be the same trap that Vicious Shadows fealt like for me. I like that it's 5 mana instead of 7. I like that the decks that ramp tons of lands into play often also dump lots of creatures into play so it'll sort of scale to the number of lands you play and can keep people off more expensive generals if I get it out early enough but all those green decks are also welcome to run as many variations of naturalize as they want. Considering I very rarely have multiple threats in play and have no token hoard type cards in the deck oustide of Mogg Infestation, which I have never cast on myself in this deck, it shouldn't ever effect me more then my opponents.
Greater Gargadon; I don't have token armys to sacrifice. I don't have multiple permanents that I would want to trade for a 9/7 with no evasion. The reason I am even considering this card is it's ability to save my general from tuck effects. I like that it can come out turn 1 before my general and completely negate the non counterspell tuck effects (which cost more then my general). I could also see it being useful with the LD. Otherwise I'm not sold despite everyone's love of it and see it as being a horrible late game draw. I can make kobold tokens off kher keep or sheep from springjack pasture to sacrifice to it except that is a huge mana cost over time for what is, again, a 9/7 with no evasion.
Which of these are fools gold or and which am I the fool for not already running them?
Greater Gargadon is awesome though, he is very useful as a finisher if needed as he can be a 9/7 haste for one mana if needed, otherwise just suspend him as soon as possible and then use his ability as a sac outlet until you get your giant creature.
I think that Anger and Urabrask are your best options for haste, but if you need more, I'd consider Mass Hysteria before Need for Speed. Lands are important for Ashling, since she's so mana hungry, and I wouldn't be too willing to sacrifice them.
I don't know that I would play a ton of land destruction or effects that sacrifice lands, like Impending Disaster, Keldon Firebombers or Devastating Summons. All you need to do is get in for a little bit of damage and then cast Ashling a bunch of times, and lands are very important for that.
Tahngrath is fine; though he might have some trouble getting too much done without equipment. He's probably better than Cyclops Gladiator though, since his ability can be activated at instant speed.
Bloodfire Colossus is also fine, though I'm not sure if it's better or worse than more burn like Molten Disaster or Rolling Thunder.
Burning Sands is VERY good, and you should almost certainly be playing it. While you have lands to spare, and won't be too creature heavy, besides ashling, you can put other players in a position where it's difficult to cast their important spells. The key is to minimize it's impact on yourself by limiting the number of creatures you're running.
Lastly, Gargadon is fine if you really need to protect your general, but I'd run lands like High Market and Miren, the Moaning Well first.
Thank you both for the feedback!
Said all ready, but burning sands is amazing. It really is.
Are you running crucible of worlds? Need for speed may be acceptable then.
Got 15 mana? Alright, point 13 of it at you? Or, sweep the board of utility creatures and hit a few opponents with the last of it.
It's a very versatile card, I wouldn't underestimate it. Also: With all that mana: Devil's Play is a new take on an oldie but goodie.
Also: There's a red enchantment from 7th I believe that gives only your creatures haste for 2R.
Legacy Decks:
Legendary Maverick GW
Edit: It's also a two card combo with Aggravated Assault for what it's worth
UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU
WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW
BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB
GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
I have thought very seriously about getting a copy of crucible in an effort to be able to get my couple of utility lands back when I have to pull the trigger on the LD late game. But I already recover pretty fast with as many lands as I'm running and at $25 it's not worth it to me.
AsianHammer; I completely misread rolling thunder to be a variant of fireball without a kicker. I didn't realise I could clear dudes board without wasting mana and ping faces for the difference. I did already put devil's play in it for the tiny bit of card advantage it provides and that it's removal early game and late game with the mana engines online I can blast for a bunch
Fervor is what you mean. I've got two haste enablers already. I was just looking for something that I could get online without interupting my early game plan of each interval of 2 mana going to ashling.
Outfoxies; I really like Siege of Towers. Thank you for suggesting that. I didn't know it existed. Obviously it is entirely a late game card but I could see it being a fun finisher if I can get and keep my mana doublers on line.
I understand how aggrivated assualt can be a combo since it is untapping your lands that you turned into creatures but aren't you tapping your lands to turn your other lands into creatures and then attacking with those lands so they're tapped and then having to tap more lands to pay for aggravated assault to untap those few creatures? Apparently I don't understand.
As far as infinite combos go, it's pretty easy to disrupt. Having to win through combat damage can sometimes be tricky, especially with Propaganda effects (unless you happen to cast Flame Fusillade). In my opinion they really should've printed AA to say "untap all creatures that attacked this turn" like the other multiple battle phase effects.
UBUWydwyn, the Biting Gale 1v1UBU
WRWBrion Cho Aniki!! I Wanna Be Strong Like Big Brother!WRW
BRBLyzie Borden and the Thrill Kill CultBRB
GWUDerevi, Birdman TacticianGWU
"Gotta have opposites dark and light, light and dark in painting. It's like in life. Gotta have a little sadness once in a while so you know when the good times come." -Bob Ross
Devastating Summons > Crap, don't run it. Way too risky for miniscule payoff. Maybe if they flew, but even then likely not worth it.
Tahngarth, > seems slow, why not run kumano, master yamabushi instead?
Bloodfire collosus > a great board sweeper and finisher, I recommend it
Burning sands > Not my kind of card, very poor politics and has little impact to the board
Greater Gargadon > fantastic card, suspend and swing for huge