Lands... How many are enough?

  • #1
    Hi guys,

    I am fairly new to EDH and I have a quick question:

    How many lands is a good number? I know it depends ont he deck, but a rough number that should be minimum (like mathematically sound)?

    I've heard numbers anywhere from 34-40, with 37 turning out to be the most common recommended amount.

    Any insights?
    Montreal, QC

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  • #2
    I find anything lower than 38 and you're bound to get mana screwed at some point. Missing land drops in a format where out-ramping your opponents is vital can be disasterous, especially in a deck with 2+ colors. Even in my mono green deck I run 40 lands.
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  • #3
    What you have heard seems like a good place to start.

    If you play green with a lot of ramp you can go as low as 30 (I usually don't go below 33), If your only ramp are a few manastones 40 can work.

    On the average I use 37 lands with 6 to 10 manastones (if not green).
  • #4
    I tend to run 38 + 5-8 more mana fixers in green land ramp and artifact mana. If you're running 3+ colors I'd go on the higher side of that.
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  • #5
    I usually start at 40 and take some out if I add ramp and mana rocks.
    My deck's average is 39 lands, ranging from 36 to 46. It really depends on:
    Number of colors
    Average mana cost of cards
    Strategy

    There is not really a "minimum" number of cards a deck should have. If it needs few lands, having more is not good, either. You should test the deck extensively to get the right number of lands. 40 is always a nice point to start, though.


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  • #6
    Thanks everyone!
    Montreal, QC

    Standard:
    Fire and Lightning R

    Modern:
    Blitzhelix! RW
    SnapBurn! RU

    EDH (1v1):
    Goblins A Go Go Baby! RB
    I am a jerk! RG
    Poison! B
  • #7
    Most of my decks will run 37-38 lands and 4-6 artifact mana sources. So total mana-sources are from 41-44.
  • #8
    As they have mentioned, it depends. The curve matters, number of colors, etc etc. In my ashling deck, I plan to play around 55. I want consistent land drops and its a very casual deck. Its things like these that you need to consider.
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  • #9
    I usually run about 38-40 lands in all my decks, they start at 38 but then I will usually tweak it a little
    I will be typing up deck lists as soon as I an be bothered, I really only play EDH:

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  • #10
    I have a deck with 36 lands and a deck with 40.
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  • #11
    Ive found that I can often run 35 lands in a deck and not have a problem due to the free mull+partial mulligan rule...

    given a 1 land 6 spell hand, I'll dump all 6 spells unless I have a bomb 1 or 2 drop among them.. going this route I almost always keep a min of 3 lands(or 2+ top or sol ring) and try to make sure I have something usefull I cast.
  • #12
    My Lorthos deck runs 38 I think, but also runs ten cards of mana accelerant-artifacts and the suchlike as the aim is to get him online by turn 4.
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  • #13
    I run a hard and fast 39 in all my decks, and just vary the amount of acceleration. It also makes a clean breakdown of 60 spells + 39 land + 1 general.

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    Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR

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  • #14
    I run 45 in my 5 color decks... Found this from a ratio cause I use 24 lands in majority of my non-EDH decks... Works well for me most of the time.. I also run Prismatic Omen and a few Enchantment tutors to give me a higher chance of having the lands I need when I need them.
  • #15
    Think about back when people made 60 card decks:

    60 card deck:
    24 lands => gives a 85% chance of having drawn 3-7 lands out of a 10 card (turn 3) hand. Thats why 24 lands was standard for a deck that curved out at a 3cc mean.

    100 card deck:
    38 lands => gives a 80% chance of having drawn 3-7 lands out of a 10 card (turn 3) hand. However, EDH decks seldom have a mean 3cc (usually upwards to 3.5-4.2).

    Now say my deck is running a lot of expensive "big stuff" (mean 4.0cc ), then 38 lands => gives a low 66% of having drawn a 4-8 lands out of 11 card (turn 4) hand. This is horribly inconsistent, so one needs to add mana rocks or ramp to the equation.

    Suppose we include ramp and mana rocks the same as land cards (+10 ramp/fix cards), then we have say 48 "land/ramp/fix" cards. Now, the percent of drawing 4-8 "land/ramp/fix" cards out of 11 card (turn 4) hand improves to 85%, which is roughly equivalent to the consistency used in the 60 card deck.

    Conclusion: 48 land/ramp/fix cards at 4cc mean yields consistent (85%) land drops for playables.
  • #16
    I run 40 lands in my EDH decks. Since the games last longer I want to make sure to hit all my land drops so that's what I run.
  • #17
    I've played decks with 37-38 lands + mana ramp and artifact mana, and I find that more often than not, I get mana screwed.

    My main deck has about 42, though not much ramp and some artifact mana. It rarely gets screwed, though occasionally gets flooded.

    That said, I'd say 40 is a fair number to start from, then playtest it some and work from there until you find the right amount for you.
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  • #18
    Myself, I like 37 but it is usually 40 and: -

    1. Minus 1 land for every nonland mana generator with casting cost 2 and below (Mox Diamond does not count)
    2. Minus 1 land for every card draw with casting cost 2 and below
  • #19
    34-37... Too much and you just draw lands. It also depends on the type of deck, its tempo, and how much acceleration it has.
  • #20
    On average, I don't think people run enough lands. In EDH, even more so than in other formats, you want to hit your land drops so you can start slinging the big haymaker spells. Standard U/B Faeries often ran 26 lands (the equivalent of 43 lands in EDH) in addition to its card drawing largely to make sure it could always hit its four-drops. When you always want to cast your 6-CMC Teneb, the Harvester, that should put things in perspective, IMO.

    I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I think a large number of EDH players would be surprised at how much more consistent and fun their deck can become by adding a few cycling lands or whatever.

    (The downside, of course, is that you can't cram in quite as many cool spells if you up the land count. It's your call. I know it's no fun, but it's good deckbuilding. Like The Ferret says: you have to eat your vegetables.)

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  • #21
    Quote from d0su
    On average, I don't think people run enough lands. In EDH, even more so than in other formats, you want to hit your land drops so you can start slinging the big haymaker spells. Standard U/B Faeries often ran 26 lands (the equivalent of 43 lands in EDH) in addition to its card drawing largely to make sure it could always hit its four-drops. When you always want to cast your 6-CMC Teneb, the Harvester, that should put things in perspective, IMO.
    This is especially true since EDH tends to have a much higher curve than other formats. You're not only wanting to hit land drop #4 on turn four consistently, but most likely, you want land drop #6 on turn six or #8 on turn 8.
    Trades
    Sales
    Decks:

    Legacy:
    UW Land Hax (U/W Tempo) UW
    GW Death and Taxes GW

    Commander/EDH:
    WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
    GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
    W Akroma, Angel of Wrath W
    RB Lyzolda, the Blood Witch RB

    Retired:
    WUG Jenara, Asura of War WUG
    U Thada Adel, Acquisitor U
    R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage R
    W Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero W

    Casual:
    W Deck Parfait W
  • #22
    I use 37 if you have land ramp....38 if only artifact mana ramp.
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