If you're running Harvest Wurm, I'd consider adding 2orMore Scythe Tiger too, to give the combo a greater probability.
My R/G Aggro deck runs that "combo": 4 Rogue Elephant, 4 Harvest Wurm, 4 Fallow Wurm (not for this deck, but same effect)...plus 4 River Boa, 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Incinerate...yada yada yada. One the games I get harvest ('bout 75% of them), I always have a land in the gy...can't honestly ever think of a game I haven't. The point is, you want a good chance of having a land in the gy, a couple of (the inferior) Scythe Tiger can help that.
If you're running Harvest Wurm, I'd consider adding 2orMore Scythe Tiger too, to give the combo a greater probability.
My R/G Aggro deck runs that "combo": 4 Rogue Elephant, 4 Harvest Wurm, 4 Fallow Wurm (not for this deck, but same effect)...plus 4 River Boa, 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Incinerate...yada yada yada. One the games I get harvest ('bout 75% of them), I always have a land in the gy...can't honestly ever think of a game I haven't. The point is, you want a good chance of having a land in the gy, a couple of (the inferior) Scythe Tiger can help that.
DRum
Well, first off, can you post your RG Aggro deck in the forums? It's one of my favorite deck archetypes.
Second, yeah, I just don't like Tiger. He's sooooooooooooooo bad. Like, ridiculously bad. Might just be my group, but I just can't get over it.
I've picked up some Colossal Strength and swapped 'em for the BloodLust, and put some tinder walls in replacing a couple lands...otherwise its the same as you see it in that thread. I never ended up going with W and Nacatl/Plateau/etc as discussed in that thread *shrug*.
I get'cha on the Tiger...he's really not great unless you're playing against a burn deck. Still, MHO, if you're gonna' play Harvest Wurm, you need more than just the Elephant to feed it :).
Sheltering Ancient looks promising. I think it will need to be built around just a bit. Or maybe use it as a side board option.
This is my thinking: I don't think I'd want to cast Sheltering Ancient early in the game. It's a finisher. There could be trouble if he ends up wearing Pacifism, Arrest, or Guard Duty. Also, your opponent will undoubtedly sacrifice everything as blockers, leaving you no targets for the upkeep. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But it means the tree is one and done. For that reason, I think Taunting Elf would need to be part of any build running Sheltering Ancient as a 3 or 4-of.
In other news...
I've been draw-testing my pauper build against a few other paups. So far, it's doing very well against a black and white Shadow Aggro. I've also been beating up a peasant format BR Aggro and a few others. The one that gives me trouble is a UW Exalted deck. It never swings for 10+ like I can, but it deals out 3 and 4 beats a turn or two earlier. It can race me if it gets the proper draw. Nice deck, actually.
Anyway, I haven't found many 'good' pauper deck on the site where I do my testing, but my next step is to build a few testing decks in the common pauper archetypes. Then we'll see how things go against stiffer competition.
Anyway, I haven't found many 'good' pauper deck on the site where I do my testing, but my next step is to build a few testing decks in the common pauper archetypes. Then we'll see how things go against stiffer competition.
Do you play on MWS? I can help, I run tons of pauper online.
Sheltering Ancient looks promising. I think it will need to be built around just a bit. Or maybe use it as a side board option.
This is my thinking: I don't think I'd want to cast Sheltering Ancient early in the game. It's a finisher. There could be trouble if he ends up wearing Pacifism, Arrest, or Guard Duty. Also, your opponent will undoubtedly sacrifice everything as blockers, leaving you no targets for the upkeep. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But it means the tree is one and done. For that reason, I think Taunting Elf would need to be part of any build running Sheltering Ancient as a 3 or 4-of.
Hmmm. Well, I would think you wouldn't want to draw a taunting elf while your Ancient is swinging. They "might" serve a similar purpose as removal (though your opponent may not choose to lose their critters so as to lose the ancient)...I wouldn't think you'd want to run 4 of each, or they may get in each others way.
Testing would tell for sure, but I don't think I'd run but 4Ancient/2Elf, or maybe 3/3.
This is my take on XLS. Let me know what you all think.
Looks beddy nice :). Groundswell is VERY interesting. When you have the Quirion Ranger deal going on, its pretty much a guaranteed +4/+4 on your turn, but if you had to use it to save a creature from burn, its not as nice as Giant Growth in that regard. Plus you're running Birds, a nice evasive target for pump :).
Mirri's Guile...I'm not sold on. The cost is right, however most of the cards you'd look at are going to be good cards, so I wonder if card "selection" is as good as good'ole card "draw". In a U deck, or something, scry and the like are helpful, as you're looking for answers, and being strategic. Here...well, when you empty your hand, you just want more steam to deal extra damage, which makes 75% of the deck...most of the cards you'll look at with Mirri's will be "yeah...I'm not sure, these are all good", with occasionally a land or two that you can give back...but then you'll still have an empty hand :(.
Just my $0.02, since I don't think Mirri's Guile is a bad card at all, how does it play out? Think of the times you've played it, and ask if you'd rather have Skullclamp in those cases?
Hmmm. Well, I would think you wouldn't want to draw a taunting elf while your Ancient is swinging. They "might" serve a similar purpose as removal (though your opponent may not choose to lose their critters so as to lose the ancient)...I wouldn't think you'd want to run 4 of each, or they may get in each others way.
I would actually be running 4 Elf alongside Ancient. He makes all the juiced-up creature aim at him rather than pick off your army.
First of all, kudos to the primer, it pretty much cevers everything Stompy.
While Talara's Batallion is mentioned a few times, and from what I read has many supporters, I think it was left out that it works well the free spells. (Obvious of course but worth mentioning that it increases viabilty the more 0cc spells you have). For me T2 Land Grant and Talara's Batallion is a fun play.
One thing about stompy is you can play around some situational and potentially dead cards (e.g. Talara's Batallion or even Rogue Elephant) if you have the pitch cards (Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad).
My open question is: Does anyone play with Skullclamps and Winter Orbs at the same time? Does it significantly decrease the synergy of pitch cards as well as green dependent cards such as Nettle Sentinel and Talara's Batallion? Or are they redundant? Given that they both give you long term plays?
The reason I chose Mirri's Guile is because I was deciding between that and Sylvan Library (trying to go Legacy, so no Skullclamp). After some testing with Sylvan Library, I found it too slow (costing two mana and all...). Plus, if you want any draw from it, then you have to pay four life per card, which is a large chunk of life. So, in theory, Mirri's Guile is better, since it costs one less, and it repositions my top three, which Sylvan Library would be doing anyways assuming I didn't pay four or eight life for those cards.
Also, it has good synergy with Land Grant. Don't like your top three? Play LG for free, shuffle library. It also doesn't change my game plan at all if I have Concordant Crossroads in my hand. T1 play Mirri's Guile. T2 play CC, play Birds, tap for Quiron Ranger, untap Birds and the land, play a Sheltering Ancient/two Nettle Sentinels/two Skyshroud Elites, swing. As well, I don't run Vine Dryad, so pitching cards are few.
My open question is: Does anyone play with Skullclamps and Winter Orbs at the same time? Does it significantly decrease the synergy of pitch cards as well as green dependent cards such as Nettle Sentinel and Talara's Batallion? Or are they redundant? Given that they both give you long term plays?
I play with both if I play 0-4 pitch cards, any more and I would run a different draw card than Skullclamp.
Do you play on MWS? I can help, I run tons of pauper online.
Must... resist.. MWS...
Sadly, I have too many on-line addictions as it is. Between Magic, woodworking, my beloved Steelers, and everything else I do online, I can not in good conscience add another gaming site to the menagerie.
I've been using Tappedout.net for 'testing'. They have a gold-fishing program. I just run two tabs, each with a different deck. Then I play them against each other to the best of my ability. It's good for figuring card counts and synergies, but it's not true testing.
The reason I chose Mirri's Guile is because I was deciding between that and Sylvan Library (trying to go Legacy, so no Skullclamp). After some testing with Sylvan Library, I found it too slow (costing two mana and all...). Plus, if you want any draw from it, then you have to pay four life per card, which is a large chunk of life. So, in theory, Mirri's Guile is better, since it costs one less, and it repositions my top three, which Sylvan Library would be doing anyways assuming I didn't pay four or eight life for those cards.
Also, it has good synergy with Land Grant. Don't like your top three? Play LG for free, shuffle library. It also doesn't change my game plan at all if I have Concordant Crossroads in my hand. T1 play Mirri's Guile. T2 play CC, play Birds, tap for Quiron Ranger, untap Birds and the land, play a Sheltering Ancient/two Nettle Sentinels/two Skyshroud Elites, swing. As well, I don't run Vine Dryad, so pitching cards are few.
I see...looks fun :).
Didn't ctch the Land Grat interaction...its like a green brainstorm lol.
Here is a variation of a green stompy deck I used to play. I updated by using some of the new cards my friend showed me... I haven't played in about 2 years, so I need for you to help me updated it.
i think you can add Silhana Ledgewalker, its stronger in casual since she has protection from spells, also i increase vines and might to 4 and reduce preys in 2, also i drop basilisk for some CA.
While 10-Land Stompy has been more successful in competitive magic, higher cmc stompy builds tend to be more popular in casual settings. I'd even argue that it may even be stronger in a casual setting since it's not as fragile and the creatures are bigger. It might have a slower clock, but this isn't as important in a casual game.
While 10-Land Stompy has been more successful in competitive magic, higher cmc stompy builds tend to be more popular in casual settings. I'd even argue that it may even be stronger in a casual setting since it's not as fragile and the creatures are bigger. It might have a slower clock, but this isn't as important in a casual game.
You seem to be confused. 'Stompy' refers to green decks using cheap creatures for beating. It's like White Weenie and Sligh in green.
You seem to be confused. 'Stompy' refers to green decks using cheap creatures for beating. It's like White Weenie and Sligh in green.
How am I confused? The Primer is titled "10-land stompy" which refers to the variant that runs 10 lands and has a mana curve ending at two. "Stompy" is a broader range of green aggro decks that don't necessarily run just 10 lands. This is the point I'm trying to make.
How am I confused? The Primer is titled "10-land stompy" which refers to the variant that runs 10 lands and has a mana curve ending at two. "Stompy" is a broader range of green aggro decks that don't necessarily run just 10 lands. This is the point I'm trying to make.
How am I confused? The Primer is titled "10-land stompy" which refers to the variant that runs 10 lands and has a mana curve ending at two. "Stompy" is a broader range of green aggro decks that don't necessarily run just 10 lands. This is the point I'm trying to make.
But stompy is an archetype of green aggro decks using smaller green bodies. The deck you were talking about made me feel like you were talking about ramp-styled aggro, which is a different deck.
But stompy is an archetype of green aggro decks using smaller green bodies. The deck you were talking about made me feel like you were talking about ramp-styled aggro, which is a different deck.
Do you mean ramping into fatties? No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about any form of mono-green beatdown, which I believe can be still be classified as stompy.
Also, don't forget Berserk Stompy variants, and since Scars, Infect Stompy variants, both of which run considerably more than 10 lands.
I run 2 in my Berserk Stompy deck, which is what gave me the idea here.
My R/G Aggro deck runs that "combo": 4 Rogue Elephant, 4 Harvest Wurm, 4 Fallow Wurm (not for this deck, but same effect)...plus 4 River Boa, 4 Lightning Bolt, 4 Incinerate...yada yada yada. One the games I get harvest ('bout 75% of them), I always have a land in the gy...can't honestly ever think of a game I haven't. The point is, you want a good chance of having a land in the gy, a couple of (the inferior) Scythe Tiger can help that.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Well, first off, can you post your RG Aggro deck in the forums? It's one of my favorite deck archetypes.
Second, yeah, I just don't like Tiger. He's sooooooooooooooo bad. Like, ridiculously bad. Might just be my group, but I just can't get over it.
Sheltering Ancient
It's two mana for a 5/5 with Trample (!). The cumulative upkeep isn't even that bad, since most, if not all decks, have some creatures.
Edit: Plus I run Concordant Crossroads, so often, he's a 9/9 trample swinging same turn (Might of old Krosa ftw).
:symb::snow: Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Not sure why I never linked it in my sig :confused:...here's the thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5044466&postcount=1
I've picked up some Colossal Strength and swapped 'em for the BloodLust, and put some tinder walls in replacing a couple lands...otherwise its the same as you see it in that thread. I never ended up going with W and Nacatl/Plateau/etc as discussed in that thread *shrug*.
I get'cha on the Tiger...he's really not great unless you're playing against a burn deck. Still, MHO, if you're gonna' play Harvest Wurm, you need more than just the Elephant to feed it :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
-1 Winter Orb (Clogging)
+1 Bequeathal
This is the current list:
10 Forest
Creatures: 26
4 Vine Dryad
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Mtenda Lion
4 Rogue Elephant
2 Talara's Battalion
4 Land Grant
4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Bequeathal
3 Winter Orb
1 Sylvan Library
From now on I think we should abbreviate Bequeathal BQ, it's annoying to spell
Also, I'm gonna keep testing those final two slots around, and I will get to testing Sheltering today (nice find btw)
This is my thinking: I don't think I'd want to cast Sheltering Ancient early in the game. It's a finisher. There could be trouble if he ends up wearing Pacifism, Arrest, or Guard Duty. Also, your opponent will undoubtedly sacrifice everything as blockers, leaving you no targets for the upkeep. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But it means the tree is one and done. For that reason, I think Taunting Elf would need to be part of any build running Sheltering Ancient as a 3 or 4-of.
In other news...
I've been draw-testing my pauper build against a few other paups. So far, it's doing very well against a black and white Shadow Aggro. I've also been beating up a peasant format BR Aggro and a few others. The one that gives me trouble is a UW Exalted deck. It never swings for 10+ like I can, but it deals out 3 and 4 beats a turn or two earlier. It can race me if it gets the proper draw. Nice deck, actually.
Anyway, I haven't found many 'good' pauper deck on the site where I do my testing, but my next step is to build a few testing decks in the common pauper archetypes. Then we'll see how things go against stiffer competition.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Do you play on MWS? I can help, I run tons of pauper online.
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Sheltering Ancient
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Rancor
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Concordant Crossroads
This is my take on XLS. Let me know what you all think.
:symb::snow: Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Hmmm. Well, I would think you wouldn't want to draw a taunting elf while your Ancient is swinging. They "might" serve a similar purpose as removal (though your opponent may not choose to lose their critters so as to lose the ancient)...I wouldn't think you'd want to run 4 of each, or they may get in each others way.
Testing would tell for sure, but I don't think I'd run but 4Ancient/2Elf, or maybe 3/3.
Thoughts ?
Looks beddy nice :). Groundswell is VERY interesting. When you have the Quirion Ranger deal going on, its pretty much a guaranteed +4/+4 on your turn, but if you had to use it to save a creature from burn, its not as nice as Giant Growth in that regard. Plus you're running Birds, a nice evasive target for pump :).
Mirri's Guile...I'm not sold on. The cost is right, however most of the cards you'd look at are going to be good cards, so I wonder if card "selection" is as good as good'ole card "draw". In a U deck, or something, scry and the like are helpful, as you're looking for answers, and being strategic. Here...well, when you empty your hand, you just want more steam to deal extra damage, which makes 75% of the deck...most of the cards you'll look at with Mirri's will be "yeah...I'm not sure, these are all good", with occasionally a land or two that you can give back...but then you'll still have an empty hand :(.
Just my $0.02, since I don't think Mirri's Guile is a bad card at all, how does it play out? Think of the times you've played it, and ask if you'd rather have Skullclamp in those cases?
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
I would actually be running 4 Elf alongside Ancient. He makes all the juiced-up creature aim at him rather than pick off your army.
While Talara's Batallion is mentioned a few times, and from what I read has many supporters, I think it was left out that it works well the free spells. (Obvious of course but worth mentioning that it increases viabilty the more 0cc spells you have). For me T2 Land Grant and Talara's Batallion is a fun play.
One thing about stompy is you can play around some situational and potentially dead cards (e.g. Talara's Batallion or even Rogue Elephant) if you have the pitch cards (Bounty of the Hunt and Vine Dryad).
My open question is: Does anyone play with Skullclamps and Winter Orbs at the same time? Does it significantly decrease the synergy of pitch cards as well as green dependent cards such as Nettle Sentinel and Talara's Batallion? Or are they redundant? Given that they both give you long term plays?
The reason I chose Mirri's Guile is because I was deciding between that and Sylvan Library (trying to go Legacy, so no Skullclamp). After some testing with Sylvan Library, I found it too slow (costing two mana and all...). Plus, if you want any draw from it, then you have to pay four life per card, which is a large chunk of life. So, in theory, Mirri's Guile is better, since it costs one less, and it repositions my top three, which Sylvan Library would be doing anyways assuming I didn't pay four or eight life for those cards.
Also, it has good synergy with Land Grant. Don't like your top three? Play LG for free, shuffle library. It also doesn't change my game plan at all if I have Concordant Crossroads in my hand. T1 play Mirri's Guile. T2 play CC, play Birds, tap for Quiron Ranger, untap Birds and the land, play a Sheltering Ancient/two Nettle Sentinels/two Skyshroud Elites, swing. As well, I don't run Vine Dryad, so pitching cards are few.
:symb::snow: Seizan, Perverter of Truth
I play with both if I play 0-4 pitch cards, any more and I would run a different draw card than Skullclamp.
Must... resist.. MWS...
Sadly, I have too many on-line addictions as it is. Between Magic, woodworking, my beloved Steelers, and everything else I do online, I can not in good conscience add another gaming site to the menagerie.
I've been using Tappedout.net for 'testing'. They have a gold-fishing program. I just run two tabs, each with a different deck. Then I play them against each other to the best of my ability. It's good for figuring card counts and synergies, but it's not true testing.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
I see...looks fun :).
Didn't ctch the Land Grat interaction...its like a green brainstorm lol.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Jungle Lion
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Garruk's Companion
3 Talara's Battalion
3 Leatherback Baloth
2 Viridian Zealot
2 Basilisk Collar
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of Old Krosa
2 Prey's Vengeance
4 Rancor
16 Forest
4 Land Grant
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=289892
i think you can add Silhana Ledgewalker, its stronger in casual since she has protection from spells, also i increase vines and might to 4 and reduce preys in 2, also i drop basilisk for some CA.
Deck Building Primer - Casual
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Change the name to just Stompy. Include 10-Land as one variant, then have a "traditional" variant with green beatz like Garruk's Companion, Leatherback Baloth, Talara's Battalion, and other other higher cmc cards.
While 10-Land Stompy has been more successful in competitive magic, higher cmc stompy builds tend to be more popular in casual settings. I'd even argue that it may even be stronger in a casual setting since it's not as fragile and the creatures are bigger. It might have a slower clock, but this isn't as important in a casual game.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
You seem to be confused. 'Stompy' refers to green decks using cheap creatures for beating. It's like White Weenie and Sligh in green.
How am I confused? The Primer is titled "10-land stompy" which refers to the variant that runs 10 lands and has a mana curve ending at two. "Stompy" is a broader range of green aggro decks that don't necessarily run just 10 lands. This is the point I'm trying to make.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
The man does have a point.
:symb::snow: Seizan, Perverter of Truth
But stompy is an archetype of green aggro decks using smaller green bodies. The deck you were talking about made me feel like you were talking about ramp-styled aggro, which is a different deck.
Do you mean ramping into fatties? No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about any form of mono-green beatdown, which I believe can be still be classified as stompy.
Also, don't forget Berserk Stompy variants, and since Scars, Infect Stompy variants, both of which run considerably more than 10 lands.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W