Hi all. As the thread title says, I'm new to this format. I have no idea what to expect from my gaming group the next time we get together, so I figured something like Slivers would bring some power to the table. I have a bunch of slivers anyway that are just sitting in a box, so might as well put them to use!
So anyway, here's what I've come up with. Note: this will be used in MULTIPLAYER games (at least 3 or 4 people), so I'm not sure if it makes sense to drop some slivers for counters/removal/what have you. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
This is a very interesting scenario, as we don't see much Peasant. Adding the multiplayer factor to that and there's quite a puzzle to solve!
I think the first thing with an aggro deck is being able to make sure that you'll be able to defend yourself while going on the offensive. Sentinel Sliver should take care of that really well, on top of being a 2/2 body. 3 seems nice, 4 might be better!
You don't have Predatory Sliver in your deck. That should probably be in there.
Harmonic Sliver seems like an obvious choice for an uncommon slot. As for your other 3 uncommons (you can add another!), I find much weaker. If you're intent on keeping it more than two colours (more on that later), I would suggest other slivers, like Crystalline Sliver, Ward Sliver, Horned Sliver and possibly Mnemonic Sliver. The Shroud Sliver is especially effective.
That being said, I think adding colours other than Green and White might be a mistake. If Pauper results are of any indication, the most successful lists are exclusively GW. I don't think I would stray from this unless there was a really good reason to. Crystalline Sliver might be that reason, but it would require testing.
Aside from the uncommons, I don't think Reflex Sliver and Homing Sliver are playable. If you want to reduce to 2 colours, Gemhide Sliver is also an easy sliver to remove to make room for more aggressive slivers (like predatory). Winged Sliver has not been a good enough card to splash for in Pauper, so I doubt that changes in Peasant. Most players will go for Spinneret Sliver, and it does a mighty good job.
Also, considering this is multiplayer, I just have to suggest Pestilence/Withering Wisps. We've been talking quite a bit about the Peasant version over in the Pestilence primer. I wouldn't be surprised that one of your friends would be using it. That's exactly what I would do.
Thank you for your detailed reply, Obermeir. I think I will try a straight GW list based on your suggestion. With so few good land options available to the deck (I'm used to running fetches & duals, which is why I'm here now looking for a peasant list :p), it's probably a bit too ambitious to run a 3-colour deck anyway.
I don't have any Horned Sliver and am not overly keen on the idea of spending $15+ on a playset that will, frankly, never see play in any other deck I own. A few things I'm considering running in those slots are some combination of: Rancor, Aether Vial, Harmonize, and/or Provoke (for the 2-for-1 aspect of it: kill an opposing creature and draw a card for 2 mana). Is that last one, in best case scenarios, even any good in a MP Peasant environment?
Alternatively, if there was something to mitigate the damage done by mass removal effects against me, that would be sweet too. Yeah I could just NOT over-commit to the board, but we're playing aggro slivers!! I think our best hope is to kill people before they have a chance to setup a defense or mass removal effect in the first place, right?
Need to cut a card (61). I also can't help but notice the complete nonexistence of a mana curve. That's actually one of the main draws of Aether Vial; everything in the deck costs 2 mana! Should I try to do anything about that, or is it just the nature of pauper/peasant slivers?
Lastly, funny that you mention the MBC/Pestilence archetype as I will probably be building that one as well. I will certainly check out the primer; maybe I will find some gems in there that are not just potent in 1v1, but can be ported to a MP build as well.
Thanks for the insight into the format and help with the deck!
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WUBG Atraxa Superfriends WRBG Saskia's Angry UBRG Yidris Valuetown WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed WBG Ghave counters madness BRG Prossh, Token Master UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control WU Brago Bouncy Castle WB Karlov Voltron B Erebos/Drana MBC R Feldon jank
You're very welcome! I'm glad you found it useful.
This second list looks a lot better. Although I suggested it, I'm not convinced Ward Sliver is entirely playable. It will probably be better in a multiplayer setting. I think using Æther Vial is a good plan. It will actually be really good at creating surprise blockers and effects like those of Spinneret Sliver will really catch people off-guard at instant speed. Uncounterable creatures is also a good deal.
For the curve, I wouldn't worry about it. Curves tend to stay rather low in the format, and a saturated 2-drop slot is probably the best place to have saturation. It's still a strong turn 3 play, and you'll be able to play 2 spells in a turn on turn 4.
I think I would remove the Ward Slivers and 1 Harmonic Sliver and go for Vials. That card will help you with over-committing, as well as accelerate you. It would also allow you to remove the Quick Slivers for something else, perhaps. Because of the 12 lords Slivers have access to, it's not unreasonable to include something like Hive Stirrings.
Hi, hopefully this is ok to post here. Not Bant, and not Peasant, but this is my Pauper take. If we're getting too far afield I'll happily open a new thread.
My metagame/intended environment isn't competitive pauper but rather casual/pet eternal format decks. With that in mind:
Sideboard isn't really a sideboard, but rather possibilities I've been looking at. I'm an interactive player at heart, which explains the removal/protective cards and silly tricks like Slivercycling for bullets. Ideally I'd like to use removal that can nullify activated abilities, hence Oppressive Rays/Arrest/Faith's Fetters. Is Sanctuary/Expanse setup above the generally-accepted strategy for mana fixing a two-color deck? It would be better if I could run the deck primarily on one color and use the other as a splash, but right now the colored mana requirements are almost perfectly balanced. Any thoughts?
I think it would probably be better if you opened a new thread. This one is not really related (all that much).
I think your tutoring package is really inefficient. Paying 3 mana to tutor a Sliver is actually a lot to pay. Considering that they're still useful in redundant copies (due to copying other slivers), I don't see a need to tutor for 1-ofs.
I'd cut Homing Sliver and the two Quick Sliver and add more of your 1-ofs. Plated Sliver could also be increased to 4 if you feel the need.
I think you have too many spells. I'd cut the Barrage, Blessing, Pacifism and Sundering Growth for more slivers. Generally, you're going to want around 30 slivers (or spells that make slivers, incidentally). Also, Pacifism is bad even in Pauper. Most people go for Journey to Nowhere. I could see them in some number in your deck.
None of the cards you have in your maybe-board are maindeckable, in my opinion. Except maybe Vines of Vastwood. Have you seen Travel Preparations? That might be interesting for you.
For your mana base, Blossoming Sands should replace Selesnya Guildgate. I don't think you need/want more than 4 tapped lands, so the Sands should be enough.
Virulent Sliver makes its way into many Sliver decks as a 4-of. It's a really powerful 1-drop.
For your mana base, Blossoming Sands should replace Selesnya Guildgate. I don't think you need/want more than 4 tapped lands, so the Sands should be enough.
I'll reply to this here though: I agree that between the two, Sands is better than Guildgate. However I actually had the 2-mana Selesnya Sanctuary in the list. I did some quick math in my head and the 2-mana lands seem to do better (more mana produced per card drawn) as long as you don't have a lot of multiple colored mana requirements (e.g. GG) and aren't facing land destruction. As a newbie to multicolor pauper though, I'm eager to learn. When do you use the "one of each color" lands and when do you use the "one or the other color" lands?
Ah, if it isn't kirbydsl, the old burn afficionado? Good to see you here!
Normally, the Blossoming Sands type lands are prefered for most two-colored decks before the Selesnya Sanctuary type (a.k.a. the Ravnica karoos). The reason is not so much vulnerability to LD, as it is the fact that the off color won't be available until t3, and you'll have 1 mana turn 1, 1 mana turn 2 and three mana turn 3. With Sands, you only sacrifice your one-drop, and powerful t2 plays is more important in the format.
So the rav karoos are mostly only played in decks that can abuse them by gaining something positive from the bounce (for example, bouncing Glimmerpost or pitching the extra land to retrace cards or Compulsive Research). They are also better with the pauper fetch lands (Terramorphic Expanse), since you don't have to bounce another ETBT land and lose even more tempo next turn.
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Hello again! I've had pauper decks for a long time actually, and will be looking to upgrade some in future threads. Like you I play with some more casual folks where fully powered Legacy wouldn't be much fun, hence the Pauper decks.
What you said makes sense. I was thinking you'd lead with a basic, but I get that leading with Sands could be better. I wonder if that holds as true in the case of Slivers, where we do have some decent 1-drops. Attacking t2 with a sidewinder could be quite decent, for example. Please give that other thread a look if you have time. I'd welcome your thoughts on the updated GW build I posted there, as well as thoughts on possible GU options. Barring any stunning revelations, I'm likely to go with GW for the slivers build. Thanks!
So anyway, here's what I've come up with. Note: this will be used in MULTIPLAYER games (at least 3 or 4 people), so I'm not sure if it makes sense to drop some slivers for counters/removal/what have you. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
3 Plated Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
1 Victual Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
3 Talon Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
3 Sentinel Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
1 Reflex Sliver
1 Telekinetic Sliver
1 Dormant Sliver
3 Distant Melody
Land (20)
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Halimar Depths
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Simic Growth Chamber
3 Plains
4 Forest
2 Island
4 Terramorphic Expanse
WUBG Atraxa Superfriends
WRBG Saskia's Angry
UBRG Yidris Valuetown
WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed
WBG Ghave counters madness
BRG Prossh, Token Master
UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control
WU Brago Bouncy Castle
WB Karlov Voltron
B Erebos/Drana MBC
R Feldon jank
This is a very interesting scenario, as we don't see much Peasant. Adding the multiplayer factor to that and there's quite a puzzle to solve!
I think the first thing with an aggro deck is being able to make sure that you'll be able to defend yourself while going on the offensive. Sentinel Sliver should take care of that really well, on top of being a 2/2 body. 3 seems nice, 4 might be better!
You don't have Predatory Sliver in your deck. That should probably be in there.
Harmonic Sliver seems like an obvious choice for an uncommon slot. As for your other 3 uncommons (you can add another!), I find much weaker. If you're intent on keeping it more than two colours (more on that later), I would suggest other slivers, like Crystalline Sliver, Ward Sliver, Horned Sliver and possibly Mnemonic Sliver. The Shroud Sliver is especially effective.
That being said, I think adding colours other than Green and White might be a mistake. If Pauper results are of any indication, the most successful lists are exclusively GW. I don't think I would stray from this unless there was a really good reason to. Crystalline Sliver might be that reason, but it would require testing.
In GW, I think I would go 2 Harmonic Sliver, 1 Ward Sliver and 2 Horned Sliver as my uncommons (or maybe something non-sliver).
Aside from the uncommons, I don't think Reflex Sliver and Homing Sliver are playable. If you want to reduce to 2 colours, Gemhide Sliver is also an easy sliver to remove to make room for more aggressive slivers (like predatory). Winged Sliver has not been a good enough card to splash for in Pauper, so I doubt that changes in Peasant. Most players will go for Spinneret Sliver, and it does a mighty good job.
Also, considering this is multiplayer, I just have to suggest Pestilence/Withering Wisps. We've been talking quite a bit about the Peasant version over in the Pestilence primer. I wouldn't be surprised that one of your friends would be using it. That's exactly what I would do.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I don't have any Horned Sliver and am not overly keen on the idea of spending $15+ on a playset that will, frankly, never see play in any other deck I own. A few things I'm considering running in those slots are some combination of: Rancor, Aether Vial, Harmonize, and/or Provoke (for the 2-for-1 aspect of it: kill an opposing creature and draw a card for 2 mana). Is that last one, in best case scenarios, even any good in a MP Peasant environment?
Alternatively, if there was something to mitigate the damage done by mass removal effects against me, that would be sweet too. Yeah I could just NOT over-commit to the board, but we're playing aggro slivers!! I think our best hope is to kill people before they have a chance to setup a defense or mass removal effect in the first place, right?
Anyway, what do you think of this list:
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Plated Sliver
4 Virulent Sliver
3 Talon Sliver
4 Sentinel Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Ward Sliver
3 Spinneret Sliver
2 Quick Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Terramophic Expanse
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
6 Plains
6 Forest
Other (4)
4 Rancor
Need to cut a card (61). I also can't help but notice the complete nonexistence of a mana curve. That's actually one of the main draws of Aether Vial; everything in the deck costs 2 mana! Should I try to do anything about that, or is it just the nature of pauper/peasant slivers?
Lastly, funny that you mention the MBC/Pestilence archetype as I will probably be building that one as well. I will certainly check out the primer; maybe I will find some gems in there that are not just potent in 1v1, but can be ported to a MP build as well.
Thanks for the insight into the format and help with the deck!
WUBG Atraxa Superfriends
WRBG Saskia's Angry
UBRG Yidris Valuetown
WUBR Breya "not just for infinite combos anymore" Etherium Shaper
mana]W[/mana]UR Narset the Nerfed
WBG Ghave counters madness
BRG Prossh, Token Master
UBG Tasigur Seedborn Control
WU Brago Bouncy Castle
WB Karlov Voltron
B Erebos/Drana MBC
R Feldon jank
This second list looks a lot better. Although I suggested it, I'm not convinced Ward Sliver is entirely playable. It will probably be better in a multiplayer setting. I think using Æther Vial is a good plan. It will actually be really good at creating surprise blockers and effects like those of Spinneret Sliver will really catch people off-guard at instant speed. Uncounterable creatures is also a good deal.
For the curve, I wouldn't worry about it. Curves tend to stay rather low in the format, and a saturated 2-drop slot is probably the best place to have saturation. It's still a strong turn 3 play, and you'll be able to play 2 spells in a turn on turn 4.
I think I would remove the Ward Slivers and 1 Harmonic Sliver and go for Vials. That card will help you with over-committing, as well as accelerate you. It would also allow you to remove the Quick Slivers for something else, perhaps. Because of the 12 lords Slivers have access to, it's not unreasonable to include something like Hive Stirrings.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
My metagame/intended environment isn't competitive pauper but rather casual/pet eternal format decks. With that in mind:
1 Sidewinder Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Spinneret Sliver
1 Talon Sliver
2 Quick Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
2 Homing Sliver
Spells (15)
2 Coordinated Barrage
3 Rancor
1 Pacifism
3 Apostle's Blessing
3 Sundering Growth
3 Hive Stirrings
4 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Forest
7 Plains
Other Ideas (13)
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Bequeathal
1 Blessed Breath
1 Caravan Vigil
1 Oppressive Rays
1 Ranger's Guile
1 Sunlance
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Orim's Cure
1 Armadillo Cloak
1 Arrest
1 Poultice Sliver
1 Faith's Fetters
Sideboard isn't really a sideboard, but rather possibilities I've been looking at. I'm an interactive player at heart, which explains the removal/protective cards and silly tricks like Slivercycling for bullets. Ideally I'd like to use removal that can nullify activated abilities, hence Oppressive Rays/Arrest/Faith's Fetters. Is Sanctuary/Expanse setup above the generally-accepted strategy for mana fixing a two-color deck? It would be better if I could run the deck primarily on one color and use the other as a splash, but right now the colored mana requirements are almost perfectly balanced. Any thoughts?
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
I think it would probably be better if you opened a new thread. This one is not really related (all that much).
I think your tutoring package is really inefficient. Paying 3 mana to tutor a Sliver is actually a lot to pay. Considering that they're still useful in redundant copies (due to copying other slivers), I don't see a need to tutor for 1-ofs.
I'd cut Homing Sliver and the two Quick Sliver and add more of your 1-ofs. Plated Sliver could also be increased to 4 if you feel the need.
I think you have too many spells. I'd cut the Barrage, Blessing, Pacifism and Sundering Growth for more slivers. Generally, you're going to want around 30 slivers (or spells that make slivers, incidentally). Also, Pacifism is bad even in Pauper. Most people go for Journey to Nowhere. I could see them in some number in your deck.
None of the cards you have in your maybe-board are maindeckable, in my opinion. Except maybe Vines of Vastwood. Have you seen Travel Preparations? That might be interesting for you.
For your mana base, Blossoming Sands should replace Selesnya Guildgate. I don't think you need/want more than 4 tapped lands, so the Sands should be enough.
Virulent Sliver makes its way into many Sliver decks as a 4-of. It's a really powerful 1-drop.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I'll reply to this here though: I agree that between the two, Sands is better than Guildgate. However I actually had the 2-mana Selesnya Sanctuary in the list. I did some quick math in my head and the 2-mana lands seem to do better (more mana produced per card drawn) as long as you don't have a lot of multiple colored mana requirements (e.g. GG) and aren't facing land destruction. As a newbie to multicolor pauper though, I'm eager to learn. When do you use the "one of each color" lands and when do you use the "one or the other color" lands?
Thanks!
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Normally, the Blossoming Sands type lands are prefered for most two-colored decks before the Selesnya Sanctuary type (a.k.a. the Ravnica karoos). The reason is not so much vulnerability to LD, as it is the fact that the off color won't be available until t3, and you'll have 1 mana turn 1, 1 mana turn 2 and three mana turn 3. With Sands, you only sacrifice your one-drop, and powerful t2 plays is more important in the format.
So the rav karoos are mostly only played in decks that can abuse them by gaining something positive from the bounce (for example, bouncing Glimmerpost or pitching the extra land to retrace cards or Compulsive Research). They are also better with the pauper fetch lands (Terramorphic Expanse), since you don't have to bounce another ETBT land and lose even more tempo next turn.
A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
"At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."
[Click here for the articles!]
What you said makes sense. I was thinking you'd lead with a basic, but I get that leading with Sands could be better. I wonder if that holds as true in the case of Slivers, where we do have some decent 1-drops. Attacking t2 with a sidewinder could be quite decent, for example. Please give that other thread a look if you have time. I'd welcome your thoughts on the updated GW build I posted there, as well as thoughts on possible GU options. Barring any stunning revelations, I'm likely to go with GW for the slivers build. Thanks!
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.