Essentially, you grind out the opponent by getting many 2-for-1s, drawing tons of cards and abusing of Grim Harvest to the max. It gets some nutty draws just like it can draw some hand that looks like absolutely nothing. I love Steve in this deck, though!
One of the first things I would change in this deck is Tangle in the Sideboard. Spore Frog has a lot more synergy going for it, as it can create an infinite Fogging loop (I had personally abused this interaction with Grim Harvest in early iterations of Turbo Fog). I feel this is the perfect place for this mini-combo to show up again, capable of completely stopping creature-damage and grinding them out from there.
How useful is Mystical Teachings? I understand it has a few silver bullets and also gets the key card, but it is rather expensive to use for what seems to be not enough to justify it... What do you think?
I'm also not convinced of Tragic Slip and would probably like to see another removal spell in its place. There are tons of options.
This desk reminds me a lot of UB Trinket Control which runs many of these same cards. One card that I think would go great with this strategy is Undying Evil. With so many sacrifice creatures, Undying Evil provides incredible value. You can gain 4 life and a 3/3 for just 4 mana, a -1/-1 counter and a 2/2 for two mana, draw FOUR cards and get a 3/3 flyer for four mana, etc. I haven't tested the deck yet so I'm not sure how "tight" it is, but just on first glance I would cut the one-ofs and possible Wickerbough elder for a playset of Undying Evil.
Festerhide Boar would be great as a 1-of here, maybe even 2. It's easily a 5/5 with Trample for 4 mana! It can even get out on T3 is you get the right plays going.
The only creatures Undying Evil seems particularly good with are Mulldrifter and Crypt Rats. Not sure it's worth including for just those two cards, although it could be quite powerful.
Not sold on Festerhide, either. is a 5/5 for 4 mana that good, especially when it has somewhat of a drawback? Although, Trample maybe makes up for the high cost...
The big thing going for Festerhide is the Trample and its size. It can be very efficient in the right deck. It can also help shift the deck to a more aggressive feel if the attrition doesn't work in some matchups. I definitely test it a bit and see how it feels.
I've switched to using Grasp of Darkness as my main removal in my MBC deck since it does so much work in the format. It can hit Gary, which gives it an edge over Victim vs MBC, while also hitting Black creatures which makes it better than Doom Blade against MBC and MB Aggro. It also works around any Regen effects (although that's not a big problem in Pauper). If the double black isn't a problem for the deck then I'd definitely use it. Ghastly Demise is also great, but I do agree with YavimayaWurm on Tragic Slip. It's great for this type of deck and also goes a long way against Delver since you can get a T1 removal on an unflipped Delver. If you have problems with it though, I'd definitely use Demise in its place.
I agree that in some MU it would be nice to be able to be a little more aggressive. But I'm not sure 1 or 2 Festerhide Boar will do that. First of all, you also have to draw them in these MU at an early point in the game, which doesn't seem very likely. In all other MU the card is not special and doesn't fit in the deck's strategy.
Undying Evil could be a nice 1-of, as far as removal goes, Victim of Night seems to be a good replacement for Doom Blade, Ghastly Demise is a good card, especially in this deck but I don't know if it really is stronger than Tragic Slip. Replacing one or two could be correct.
Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
All your other examples do not generate card advantage! Undying + Brindle Boar does not gain 8 life plus a 2/2 and a 3/3 Body, it simply gains 8 life or 4 life and a 3/3. But you invested two cards! Be careful when to use the term card advantage.
Of course, I was thinking more along the lines of value not strict CA. Thanks for the correction!
The reason I'm building up UE so much is because it is one of the best cards in the UB Trinket Control deck that I started playing Pauper with. I also played the BW control deck that utilized UE with creatures such as Aven Riftwatcher and Doomed Traveler. I've seen the absurd value that this card can produce in a removal heavy meta and I figured this type of deck has a similar focus, hence my suggestion.
To each his own, however! We see things differently and that's ok
I posted all the videos Dan put up on Youtube into the first post, if anyone cares to check it out! They're very interesting and show very well what the deck can (and can't) do. It's also fascinating to see Dan being so skeptical of the deck at first, on top of keeping such horrible hands and making really bad choices in games. Not an easy deck to play, the 3 colours means you lose a certain portion of your games by just being mana/colour-screwed.
I agree that both Undying Evil and Festerhide Boar are good in the right context, but difficult to use because they are potentially very bad top-decks.
I'm toying with the deck a bit, and there are still some small things I'd like to change. I'm not particularly enjoying the maindeck Negate, and from what I saw in the videos, it was most often sided out or never showed up when it was needed. I don't think it's a very good 1-of inclusion in the maindeck, though I can definitely see it in some number in the sideboard.
Speaking of bad top-decks, I took out the Negate and added another land. This 3-mana land-base, although helped out a great deal by Steve and Pig, could use more lands, so I added another Forest. Teachings is now exclusively for Harvest or Removal, which I think is fine.
As I don't use Chainer's Edict, I added maindeck Diabolic Edict instead. It's also an instant, which is nice. Watching the match versus Hexproof, I couldn't help but think how lucky Dan was to have taken that match, so I added Devour Flesh in the sideboard by removing 1 Lifestaff (4 seemed like too much anyways) and 1 Doom Blade. You now have more removal ready and should stand a better chance against Hexproof with 4 Crypt Rats and 6 Edict effects. If one were to use online Rarities, they would probably have maindeck Chainer's Edict with fetchable Diabolic Edict in the board. I'm still very happy with Devour Flesh though, as it offers other plays too.
Here's what I'm at right now. Still wondering if Teachings is worth it.
Really nice synergy here with morbid. Goes with theme. But I put these separate because I'm not sure if including rares in a pauper forum will cause riots ;). So I won't mention This Card
Is there room for any of these?
edit: Grim Harvest is incredible.. I've never even seen that thing before...
.....unplayable? ouch. I thought I was helping There's seriously NO love forMr.Smileycakes?
Okay, maybe something else will work? What about more recursion and creature sacrificing stuff?
As for the rares, Turn 2 - Skirsdag. Turn 3 - Pod. Turn 4 - Shriekmaw + sac maw to pod to fetch Reaper of the Abyss. Kill 2 creatures for 2B. Tap priest make a 5/5 flying. I thought that was a decent trick.
So you would run a 3:1 split between Chainer's and Diabolic in your own deck?
I'm wondering if Teachings shouldn't just be removed in favour of simply another Harvest. Drawing multiples is not such a huge deal, as it means we can just "waste" one by not buying it back, which can be useful. That 4 mana investment on top of the cost of the spell is just so huge. It's not the same as a typical Teachings list who runs almost exclusively instants; this deck has creatures it needs to play on its own turn, which restricts available mana significantly. Or maybe removing it could lead to including spicy one-ofs that were mentioned earlier!
I was also thinking about switching Doom Blade for Victim of Night, but the double Black makes me hesitate. I don't want to strain the mana base any more than I have to (notice I didn't mention Geth's Verdict). If only there was some sort of Terminate in BG...
I know it's a bit early to tell, but I think that 23rd land is making a good difference. I like it!
@Squirrel_Fu,
You seem to be full of good intentions, and I really appreciate that. However, your advice is a bit out of place here. Pardon me for mentioning, but I don't think you read the Forum Rules for this particular sub-forum (there's a red "read this" next to it). Here they are
Here's the link to the casual forum, where your opinion and advice will not only be more appreciated, but also incredibly helpful! I hope to see you there, and if ever you feel like picking up Pauper (which I think you should! ), feel free to come back here any time and post your deck. It would be my pleasure (and that of everyone else) to take a look!
Always read the threads that have Read this next to them, that way you know where you're posting and how to do it!
4 Brindle Boar
3 Crypt Rats
4 Fume Spitter
4 Krosan Tusker
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wickerbough Elder
4 Chainer's Edict
2 Grim Harvest
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Negate
4 Tragic Slip
8 Forest
2 Island
4 Jungle Hollow
8 Swamp
3 Doom Blade
2 Naturalize
2 Negate
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Sylvok Lifestaff
2 Tangle
Source: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bugs-pigs/ (courtesy of YavimayaWurm)
Essentially, you grind out the opponent by getting many 2-for-1s, drawing tons of cards and abusing of Grim Harvest to the max. It gets some nutty draws just like it can draw some hand that looks like absolutely nothing. I love Steve in this deck, though!
One of the first things I would change in this deck is Tangle in the Sideboard. Spore Frog has a lot more synergy going for it, as it can create an infinite Fogging loop (I had personally abused this interaction with Grim Harvest in early iterations of Turbo Fog). I feel this is the perfect place for this mini-combo to show up again, capable of completely stopping creature-damage and grinding them out from there.
How useful is Mystical Teachings? I understand it has a few silver bullets and also gets the key card, but it is rather expensive to use for what seems to be not enough to justify it... What do you think?
I'm also not convinced of Tragic Slip and would probably like to see another removal spell in its place. There are tons of options.
VS Stompy
VS Delvr
VC Mono Black Control
VS Infect
VS Infect
VS Teachings
VS Hexproof
VS RG Aggro
VS Slivers
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Not sold on Festerhide, either. is a 5/5 for 4 mana that good, especially when it has somewhat of a drawback? Although, Trample maybe makes up for the high cost...
How about Ghastly Demise? It could split well with Tragic Slip. There's also BB things like Grasp of Darkness and Victim of Night that could be interesting.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I've switched to using Grasp of Darkness as my main removal in my MBC deck since it does so much work in the format. It can hit Gary, which gives it an edge over Victim vs MBC, while also hitting Black creatures which makes it better than Doom Blade against MBC and MB Aggro. It also works around any Regen effects (although that's not a big problem in Pauper). If the double black isn't a problem for the deck then I'd definitely use it. Ghastly Demise is also great, but I do agree with YavimayaWurm on Tragic Slip. It's great for this type of deck and also goes a long way against Delver since you can get a T1 removal on an unflipped Delver. If you have problems with it though, I'd definitely use Demise in its place.
Most of the format's all-star creatures are at least 4/4, so I can see Festerhide being not only an efficient beater but a great blocker as well, until proper removal spells are found. The question becomes is it worth it to have a vanilla creature, regardless of p/t, in this type of build.
Undying Evil is one of the most underrated cards in this format. Not only is it a counterspell for creature removal, it generates so much value for so little mana invested. In a deck built around creatures with ETB and self-sacrifice effects, it's versatility borders on unfair. Consider the following:
- Undying Evil on Brindle Boar: Total of 8 life gained in addition to having a 2/2 and 3/3 body. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Crypt Rats: Wrath a board twice, or Pestilence for one every turn and attack with a 2/2.
- Undying Evil on Fume Spitter: Distribute two -1/-1 counters in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body, for only two mana.
- Undying Evil on an evoked Mulldrifter: Draw four card and get a 3/3 flier. Total cost, four mana.
- Undying Evil on Sakura-Tribe Elder: Fetch two lands in addition to having a 1/1 and 2/2 body. Total cost, three mana.
The only card Evil doesn't synergize with is Wickerbough, but that is hardly a drawback given how much raw card advantage it produces with nearly every other creature in the deck. If the goal of this brew is to grind out a victory by getting more resources than your opponent, then this card fits right into that strategy. It effectively functions as a second copy of Grim Harvest.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Of course, I was thinking more along the lines of value not strict CA. Thanks for the correction!
The reason I'm building up UE so much is because it is one of the best cards in the UB Trinket Control deck that I started playing Pauper with. I also played the BW control deck that utilized UE with creatures such as Aven Riftwatcher and Doomed Traveler. I've seen the absurd value that this card can produce in a removal heavy meta and I figured this type of deck has a similar focus, hence my suggestion.
To each his own, however! We see things differently and that's ok
I agree that both Undying Evil and Festerhide Boar are good in the right context, but difficult to use because they are potentially very bad top-decks.
I'm toying with the deck a bit, and there are still some small things I'd like to change. I'm not particularly enjoying the maindeck Negate, and from what I saw in the videos, it was most often sided out or never showed up when it was needed. I don't think it's a very good 1-of inclusion in the maindeck, though I can definitely see it in some number in the sideboard.
Speaking of bad top-decks, I took out the Negate and added another land. This 3-mana land-base, although helped out a great deal by Steve and Pig, could use more lands, so I added another Forest. Teachings is now exclusively for Harvest or Removal, which I think is fine.
As I don't use Chainer's Edict, I added maindeck Diabolic Edict instead. It's also an instant, which is nice. Watching the match versus Hexproof, I couldn't help but think how lucky Dan was to have taken that match, so I added Devour Flesh in the sideboard by removing 1 Lifestaff (4 seemed like too much anyways) and 1 Doom Blade. You now have more removal ready and should stand a better chance against Hexproof with 4 Crypt Rats and 6 Edict effects. If one were to use online Rarities, they would probably have maindeck Chainer's Edict with fetchable Diabolic Edict in the board. I'm still very happy with Devour Flesh though, as it offers other plays too.
Here's what I'm at right now. Still wondering if Teachings is worth it.
4 Brindle Boar
3 Crypt Rats
4 Fume Spitter
4 Krosan Tusker
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wickerbough Elder
Instants/ Sorceries (12)
1 Doom Blade
2 Grim Harvest
4 Tragic Slip
4 Diabolic Edict
1 Mystical Teachings
9 Forest
2 Island
4 Jungle Hollow
8 Swamp
1 Crypt Rats
2 Doom Blade
2 Devour Flesh
2 Naturalize
2 Negate
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Sylvok Lifestaff
2 Spore Frog
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
- Fact or Fiction
- Shriekmaw
- Rancor
- Lumberknot
FoF an Mr.Smilycakes especially.- Reaper from the Abyss
- Skirsdag High Priest
- Ghoultree
Really nice synergy here with morbid. Goes with theme. But I put these separate because I'm not sure if including rares in a pauper forum will cause riots ;). So I won't mention This CardIs there room for any of these?
edit: Grim Harvest is incredible.. I've never even seen that thing before...
Okay, maybe something else will work? What about more recursion and creature sacrificing stuff?
As for the rares, Turn 2 - Skirsdag. Turn 3 - Pod. Turn 4 - Shriekmaw + sac maw to pod to fetch Reaper of the Abyss. Kill 2 creatures for 2B. Tap priest make a 5/5 flying. I thought that was a decent trick.
I'm wondering if Teachings shouldn't just be removed in favour of simply another Harvest. Drawing multiples is not such a huge deal, as it means we can just "waste" one by not buying it back, which can be useful. That 4 mana investment on top of the cost of the spell is just so huge. It's not the same as a typical Teachings list who runs almost exclusively instants; this deck has creatures it needs to play on its own turn, which restricts available mana significantly. Or maybe removing it could lead to including spicy one-ofs that were mentioned earlier!
I was also thinking about switching Doom Blade for Victim of Night, but the double Black makes me hesitate. I don't want to strain the mana base any more than I have to (notice I didn't mention Geth's Verdict). If only there was some sort of Terminate in BG...
I know it's a bit early to tell, but I think that 23rd land is making a good difference. I like it!
@Squirrel_Fu,
You seem to be full of good intentions, and I really appreciate that. However, your advice is a bit out of place here. Pardon me for mentioning, but I don't think you read the Forum Rules for this particular sub-forum (there's a red "read this" next to it). Here they are
Here's the link to the casual forum, where your opinion and advice will not only be more appreciated, but also incredibly helpful! I hope to see you there, and if ever you feel like picking up Pauper (which I think you should! ), feel free to come back here any time and post your deck. It would be my pleasure (and that of everyone else) to take a look!
Always read the threads that have Read this next to them, that way you know where you're posting and how to do it!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio