I've been toying with the idea of a U/B Ninja tempo deck with unblockable creatures, fancy ETB/LTB triggers, and even a Dimir Infiltrator toolbox. The deck revolves mainly around the concept of uncountereability. Since Ninjutsu can't be countered and neither can be Transmute, coupling these abilities with cards like Ornithopter, Daze or Snapback that are difficult to counter, means that the opponent will have a hard time interacting with us. I believe this could be such a good tempo deck if we look past the obvious flaw that being two-colored means tapped lands, so we need to make it up by having insane value and setting the enemy's tempo back and 0 CMC creatures like Ornithopter. So far, this is the core I've come up with
The Dimir Infiltrator toolbox could use some of the following:
- Thalakos Seer for card draw and as a ninja enabler.
- Skullsnatcher as a very efficient ninja who hates against the Delve madness and hampers deck who use the graveyard as a resource, while shutting down graveyard based decks.
- Kitesail as a way to rack up some more damage while making Ninjas difficult to block.
- Vulshock Morningstar for raw power.
Tormented Soul could also be a really good Ninjutsu enabler who offsets lands CipT by allowing us to drop him on T2 while playing a second tapped land. Liliana's Specter albeit on the pricy side is another excellent ETB evasive creature to abuse with Ninjutsu.
What are your thoughts? What are some other options for disruption, card draw and Infiltrator toolbox? I really believe this can be a really efficient deck despite being bi-coloured, much like the brewing in the UG Delve thread has shown us.
I like this idea. I agree that this can be a very strong deck. I don't think the mana base will be a big problem as dual colored decks aren't that tough in Pauper these days. If we can get more free creatures like Phyrexian Walker then having a land come in tapped T1 becomes negligible if we still drop a creature. Although Walker doesn't have evasion, so he may be a bad example.
Even without the extra Toolbox options you mentioned, your deck has a lot of good Transmute options with the Faeries, Doom Blades and Leaks. Thalakos Seer looks really good with Ninjutsu since it'll give you CA when you bounce it, but the double blue is worrisome.
You definitely need some evasive one drops to ensure you'll have at least one creature to Ninjutsu out if your opponent matches your drops or has early removal. Tormented Soul is a good start. Zephyr Sprite is also good since it can work off a T1 Island and Vault Skirge is great since he can be one colorless mana and has the added bonus of getting us life if needed.
However, we're sitting at 31 creatures, and we're not even counting Thalakos Seer (although the double Blue might be a little difficult to get), and I'd like to make up space for the counterspell and removal suite plus 3-4 slots for an Infiltrator package, two of which will probably be Kitesail and Vulshok Morningstar.
I do like the ability to reduce interaction as much as possible through uncounterability and unblockability. It's an interesting concept that has proven tobe quite successful in other decks.
I would look up Shrieking Drake. For 1 mana, you have an evasive creature that returns your ninjas to your hand for more ninjutsu action. 2 copies seems warranted. There should be other ways to return ninjas to your hand while not tempo'ing yourself to death. Peel From Reality seems like another interesting option.
The problem I see is that there are many components to the deck, which can create a complicated deck that just folds to itself. You need ninja enablers, ninjas, removal/ bounce/ countermagic, Things to make your ninjas evasive after ninjutsuing and lands. These parts of the deck don't necessarily fit well together, depending on what stage of the game you find yourself in or in what board position you are. Finding the correct balance will be a really important matter, and even then it just might not be enough to fight against the odds.
Accumulating damage from the small flyers combined with the power of the ninjas and their super-powers should be fairly strong. I also reduce black to a splash in the deck. This is completely untested, but I'm thinking Shrieking Drake could end up holding this deck together, and should be bumped up to 3 or 4. I may have gone slightly overboard with evasive creatures or evasion, and some library manipulation like Preordain might be warranted.
What about Cavern Harpy? She bounces our ninjas, has 2 flying power which trades with Delver and puts heavy pressure, and is hard to kill due her ability to self-bounce.
I don't like Phantom Wings as it opens us to a 2-for-1 and we will also be constantly bouncing our creatures with Ninjutsu. I'd also definitely run some number of Mana Leak / Doom Blade / Last Gasp / Snap or Snapback, all which can be tutored with Dimir Infiltrator. Alternatively we could just run Leak and Blade and use Disfigure and Vapor Snag as super cheap tempo options. And about the deck being super complicated and running many kinds of cards we can either run 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Street Wraith to downgrade our deck size to 52 or we could directly use some good library manipulation spells.
Finally, we need something a la Standstill or Cloudstone Curio to make the most of our ETB / LTB effects and cheating creatures into play. Cavern Harpy is a good start, and Wormfang Drake can be super efficient at the end of the curve to beat face in the mid game if we can't out-tempo the opponent, since he's the biggest creature in the skies.
Phantom Wings doesn't actually allow for 2-for-1s, as you can use the sacrifice ability to return the creature to your hand. It's not the best card though, I agree.
Cavern Harpy seems great! I was sure that it was uncommon.
I don't like Peel From Reality, as bouncing our creatures is fine as long as it's a built-in effect in a creature like Cavern Harpy, but using spells sets us back on tempo and creatures. I am currently playing this list:
I'm trying to fit 2 Mana Leak and 2-3 Cavern Harpy as well, but the list is super tight. I took out one Okiba-Gang Shinobi since we're running only 20 lands, and one Skullsnatcher since he's tutorable and narrow. We also need some form of card advantage and selection. I'd probably take out some number of the enablers for these things. How would a Faerie-less version work?
A good option is also Veil of Secrecy: tutorable with Infiltrator and grants unblockability and Shroud to our ninjas, although perhaps it's more of a SB option.
I had an old tempo ninja deck and I used to love it! I think Distortion Strike is awesome an card for the list. It provides evasion and some damage while letting your mana open to use Mana Leak, Agony Warp (love this card), Doom Blade and other cool stuff, as you don't need to pay the ninjutsu cost. Another option could be Artful Dodge. Making 2 evasive ninjas at the same turn or having it "stored" for future turns is awesome.
I really like Thalakos Seer, but i don't think the deck can afford to pay UU early on. As my intention with this deck is not play for the long run, I wouldn't use it. Instead, I would run free creatures like Cloud of Faeries and Ornithopter (as you did in your last list).
A Faerie-less version is a possibility, but I don't think you should cut Cloud of Faeries (only if playing against tons of fliers). Running 8 Tapped lands makes the deck slower. Those "free" evasive creatures are a good way to make it a little faster.
I also think you should consider a full set of Mistblade Shinobi. It's a very nasty card paired with Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge. The effect is basically the same of vapor snag, but I like the flexibility of unsummoning 2 creatures back with the same card.
Skullsnatcher is an awesome card in certain matchups, but sometime is useless. I think it should be sideboarded.
With everything said, I would run something like this:
Maybe the number of supportive cards are going down for one or two Dimir Infiltrators and some Kitesails. Although I like first one, I think using him as a tutor is a very slow play, but maybe is worth it. The second one is awesome to give evasion, but I think the Artful Dodges and the removals are enough to make our ninjas hit.
NOTE: English isn't my first language. Sorry for any mistake x.x
I really like your list so I will use it as a reference. However, testing has shown me a few things:
- Faerie package is absolutely necessary. Being able to reuse Spellstutter Sprite is one of the biggest strengths of the deck, and as you said, Cloud of Faeries is great. Plus it has cycling, which is uncountereable card draw which adds to the strength of the deck.
- Shrieking Drake is not consistant in the least. Sometimes you draw it and bounce a Ninja, but if he's your 1-drop in your opening hand you're basically stuck. Gotta replace it with either Zephyr Sprite (good alongside Cloud and Sprite if you see many 3-CMC spells being cast) or Vault Skirge (good in racing against aggro, can be cast with any color, tutorable with Infiltrator if we need lifegain, brutal with a Vulshok Morningstar)
- Dimir Infiltrator package is what really adds resilience to the deck, being able to tutor for Kitesail to sneak in already cast ninjas, Vulshok Morningstar for having sturdy creatures, Cloud of Faeries for drawing, or simply removal / counters.
- Cavern Harpy is a super resilient enabler, and also eats opposing flipped Delvers.
- We need some sort of card advantage spell, or at least some card selection, but Treasure Cruise is out of our league since we can't power it up enough. I suggest some Ponder or Preordain here.
- A playset of Mistblade Shinobi can be super awkward if you can't get him in or you're stuck without enablers.
Hmm. After your report I think I like the infiltrator more. I actually didn't notice that you could tutor Kitesail too.
If I had to cut something from your list I would probably start cutting some enablers. Although I like all of them, I think 12 is overkill. And you could set up more ninjas with the Cavern Harpy and the Dimir Infiltrator. The problem is that I don't know which one I wanna cut.
With Kitesail, I think Artful Dodge is not extremely necessary anymore, but I think it's a nice card to guarantee resolved ninjas hits and ninjutsus, so I REALLY want to put 2 on the list.
I really don't wanna to cut more removals from the list, and I like the number of counters to protect our little ninjas. This leaves me with just 3 cards to cut: Cavern Harpy, Dimir Infiltrator and Vulshok Morningstar. With this said, I'm taking out one Cavern Harpy. I like the card, but I think the flexibility of the infiltrator and the finishing power of the Morningstar are more important.
(Those enablers need testing. I didn't wanted to cut Cloud of Faeries because I like the idea of putting a creature in play while letting mana open to protect it the turn after (and it makes Spellstutter Sprite more powerful) but Vault Skirge fits the deck so well! I think we need more data and more games to really define the chosen ones)
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4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Dimir Infiltrator
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Mana Leak
3 Doom Blade
The Dimir Infiltrator toolbox could use some of the following:
- Thalakos Seer for card draw and as a ninja enabler.
- Skullsnatcher as a very efficient ninja who hates against the Delve madness and hampers deck who use the graveyard as a resource, while shutting down graveyard based decks.
- Kitesail as a way to rack up some more damage while making Ninjas difficult to block.
- Vulshock Morningstar for raw power.
Tormented Soul could also be a really good Ninjutsu enabler who offsets lands CipT by allowing us to drop him on T2 while playing a second tapped land. Liliana's Specter albeit on the pricy side is another excellent ETB evasive creature to abuse with Ninjutsu.
What are your thoughts? What are some other options for disruption, card draw and Infiltrator toolbox? I really believe this can be a really efficient deck despite being bi-coloured, much like the brewing in the UG Delve thread has shown us.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Even without the extra Toolbox options you mentioned, your deck has a lot of good Transmute options with the Faeries, Doom Blades and Leaks. Thalakos Seer looks really good with Ninjutsu since it'll give you CA when you bounce it, but the double blue is worrisome.
You definitely need some evasive one drops to ensure you'll have at least one creature to Ninjutsu out if your opponent matches your drops or has early removal. Tormented Soul is a good start. Zephyr Sprite is also good since it can work off a T1 Island and Vault Skirge is great since he can be one colorless mana and has the added bonus of getting us life if needed.
4 Zephyr Sprite
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Skullsnatcher
3 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
However, we're sitting at 31 creatures, and we're not even counting Thalakos Seer (although the double Blue might be a little difficult to get), and I'd like to make up space for the counterspell and removal suite plus 3-4 slots for an Infiltrator package, two of which will probably be Kitesail and Vulshok Morningstar.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I do like the ability to reduce interaction as much as possible through uncounterability and unblockability. It's an interesting concept that has proven tobe quite successful in other decks.
I would look up Shrieking Drake. For 1 mana, you have an evasive creature that returns your ninjas to your hand for more ninjutsu action. 2 copies seems warranted. There should be other ways to return ninjas to your hand while not tempo'ing yourself to death. Peel From Reality seems like another interesting option.
The problem I see is that there are many components to the deck, which can create a complicated deck that just folds to itself. You need ninja enablers, ninjas, removal/ bounce/ countermagic, Things to make your ninjas evasive after ninjutsuing and lands. These parts of the deck don't necessarily fit well together, depending on what stage of the game you find yourself in or in what board position you are. Finding the correct balance will be a really important matter, and even then it just might not be enough to fight against the odds.
I would try something like this:
4 Triton Shorestalker
2 Shrieking Drake
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Skullsnatcher
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Undo
2 Phantom Wings
2 Kitesail
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
2 Swamp
10 Island
Accumulating damage from the small flyers combined with the power of the ninjas and their super-powers should be fairly strong. I also reduce black to a splash in the deck. This is completely untested, but I'm thinking Shrieking Drake could end up holding this deck together, and should be bumped up to 3 or 4. I may have gone slightly overboard with evasive creatures or evasion, and some library manipulation like Preordain might be warranted.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I don't like Phantom Wings as it opens us to a 2-for-1 and we will also be constantly bouncing our creatures with Ninjutsu. I'd also definitely run some number of Mana Leak / Doom Blade / Last Gasp / Snap or Snapback, all which can be tutored with Dimir Infiltrator. Alternatively we could just run Leak and Blade and use Disfigure and Vapor Snag as super cheap tempo options. And about the deck being super complicated and running many kinds of cards we can either run 4 Gitaxian Probe and 4 Street Wraith to downgrade our deck size to 52 or we could directly use some good library manipulation spells.
Finally, we need something a la Standstill or Cloudstone Curio to make the most of our ETB / LTB effects and cheating creatures into play. Cavern Harpy is a good start, and Wormfang Drake can be super efficient at the end of the curve to beat face in the mid game if we can't out-tempo the opponent, since he's the biggest creature in the skies.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Cavern Harpy seems great! I was sure that it was uncommon.
How about something more like this:
4 Ornithopter
4 Shrieking Drake
2 Cavern Harpy
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Skullsnatcher
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Peel from Reality
1 Undo
2 Doom Blade
2 Kitesail
Land (20)
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
2 Swamp
10 Island
I think aggro would have a hard enough time fighting through bounce, removal and a smidge of countermagic. I wouldn't be too worried about that.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
1 Kitesail
1 Vulshok Morningstar
Creature (29)
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Ornithopter
4 Shrieking Drake
4 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Skullsnatcher
2 Disfigure
3 Doom Blade
4 Vapor Snag
Land (20)
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
9 Island
3 Swamp
I'm trying to fit 2 Mana Leak and 2-3 Cavern Harpy as well, but the list is super tight. I took out one Okiba-Gang Shinobi since we're running only 20 lands, and one Skullsnatcher since he's tutorable and narrow. We also need some form of card advantage and selection. I'd probably take out some number of the enablers for these things. How would a Faerie-less version work?
A good option is also Veil of Secrecy: tutorable with Infiltrator and grants unblockability and Shroud to our ninjas, although perhaps it's more of a SB option.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I really like Thalakos Seer, but i don't think the deck can afford to pay UU early on. As my intention with this deck is not play for the long run, I wouldn't use it. Instead, I would run free creatures like Cloud of Faeries and Ornithopter (as you did in your last list).
A Faerie-less version is a possibility, but I don't think you should cut Cloud of Faeries (only if playing against tons of fliers). Running 8 Tapped lands makes the deck slower. Those "free" evasive creatures are a good way to make it a little faster.
I also think you should consider a full set of Mistblade Shinobi. It's a very nasty card paired with Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge. The effect is basically the same of vapor snag, but I like the flexibility of unsummoning 2 creatures back with the same card.
Skullsnatcher is an awesome card in certain matchups, but sometime is useless. I think it should be sideboarded.
With everything said, I would run something like this:
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Ornithopter
Ninjas (10)
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Shrieking Drake
Supportboys (18)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Doom Blade
4 Mana Leak
3 Artful Dodge
2 Disfigure
2 Agony Warp
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
8 Island
4 Swamp
Total:
20 Land cards
26 Creature cards
11 Instant cards
3 Sorcery cards
The Spellstutter Sprites are there just to make our ninjas immune to Lightning Bolt, Disfigure and other cheap removals (principally if sided with Cloud of Faeries) while making some set ups for the ninja's strikes.
Maybe the number of supportive cards are going down for one or two Dimir Infiltrators and some Kitesails. Although I like first one, I think using him as a tutor is a very slow play, but maybe is worth it. The second one is awesome to give evasion, but I think the Artful Dodges and the removals are enough to make our ninjas hit.
NOTE: English isn't my first language. Sorry for any mistake x.x
- Faerie package is absolutely necessary. Being able to reuse Spellstutter Sprite is one of the biggest strengths of the deck, and as you said, Cloud of Faeries is great. Plus it has cycling, which is uncountereable card draw which adds to the strength of the deck.
- Shrieking Drake is not consistant in the least. Sometimes you draw it and bounce a Ninja, but if he's your 1-drop in your opening hand you're basically stuck. Gotta replace it with either Zephyr Sprite (good alongside Cloud and Sprite if you see many 3-CMC spells being cast) or Vault Skirge (good in racing against aggro, can be cast with any color, tutorable with Infiltrator if we need lifegain, brutal with a Vulshok Morningstar)
- Dimir Infiltrator package is what really adds resilience to the deck, being able to tutor for Kitesail to sneak in already cast ninjas, Vulshok Morningstar for having sturdy creatures, Cloud of Faeries for drawing, or simply removal / counters.
- Cavern Harpy is a super resilient enabler, and also eats opposing flipped Delvers.
- We need some sort of card advantage spell, or at least some card selection, but Treasure Cruise is out of our league since we can't power it up enough. I suggest some Ponder or Preordain here.
- A playset of Mistblade Shinobi can be super awkward if you can't get him in or you're stuck without enablers.
Here's an updated list:
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Cloud of Faeries
Ninjas (9)
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Cavern Harpy
3 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Kitesail
1 Vulshok Morningstar
3 Doom Blade
2 Disfigure
2 Mana Leak
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
8 Island
4 Swamp
Wanting to fit in some Distortion Strike and a playset of Ponder, but unsure on what to take out.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
If I had to cut something from your list I would probably start cutting some enablers. Although I like all of them, I think 12 is overkill. And you could set up more ninjas with the Cavern Harpy and the Dimir Infiltrator. The problem is that I don't know which one I wanna cut.
With Kitesail, I think Artful Dodge is not extremely necessary anymore, but I think it's a nice card to guarantee resolved ninjas hits and ninjutsus, so I REALLY want to put 2 on the list.
I really don't wanna to cut more removals from the list, and I like the number of counters to protect our little ninjas. This leaves me with just 3 cards to cut: Cavern Harpy, Dimir Infiltrator and Vulshok Morningstar. With this said, I'm taking out one Cavern Harpy. I like the card, but I think the flexibility of the infiltrator and the finishing power of the Morningstar are more important.
So this is my current list after your report:
4 Ornithopter
4 Cloud of Faeries
Ninjas (9)
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
3 Mistblade Shinobi
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
Support (23)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Cavern Harpy
3 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Kitesail
1 Vulshok Morningstar
3 Doom Blade
2 Disfigure
2 Mana Leak
3 Preordain
2 Artful Dodge
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Dimir Guildgate
8 Island
4 Swamp
(Those enablers need testing. I didn't wanted to cut Cloud of Faeries because I like the idea of putting a creature in play while letting mana open to protect it the turn after (and it makes Spellstutter Sprite more powerful) but Vault Skirge fits the deck so well! I think we need more data and more games to really define the chosen ones)