MTG Salvation

Exactly.

Although Turbo Fog removes combat from the equation, it opens up completely new levels of interaction for the opponent. Any good deck should be able to interact in more ways than just combat.

I stumbled into this thread because I'm selling off my cube to build something similar (on a smaller scale - only 1 deck per color). It seems like a great way to get together with people who don't play MtG anymore and play a few games without the time and money commitments of prepared formats and in a narrower time frame than drafting (cube or otherwise).

I'm putting together White Weenie, Blue Delver, Black Devotion and two jankier lists that I think are pretty fun:

Mono-Red Heroic


7-land Eldrazi

(Sideboards are complete nonsense right now, but I'll probably get them pulled together before too long)

Anyway, it's been fun reading commentary on these lists. Sounds like a fun idea.

Sounds great! One of each colour seems like a good place to start! The difficulty is making sure that every deck is balanced against each other, since they will be playing each other often. Sideboards and a few maindeck choices can really even the playing field.

The Heroic deck looks fun and could pull off some very fast wins!

The green deck looks like it could use some love. You may want to look at mainstream elf decks in Pauper, as they look a little bit like this one.

Check out this winning deck. It basically only run two more lands than yours, if you count your Land Grants.



I look forward to hearing more about your collection of five!

Is White Weenie really the only way to go though? I veer between that and tokens (but honestly they feel like the same thing) and find that it's the one deck of the 18 that I have absolutely no interest in playing. I'm not sure there's really much else you can do with Plains, but I'm all for new ideas.

Mono-Red Heroic is a solid deck too. My 8 year old wanted a Pauper deck so we went that route and it holds up against quite a few of the other decks (very limited testing) because it's aggro enough to race most decks but also puts enough creatures on the table that it can manage swarms pretty well.

Quote from Galspanic »

Is White Weenie really the only way to go though? I veer between that and tokens (but honestly they feel like the same thing) and find that it's the one deck of the 18 that I have absolutely no interest in playing. I'm not sure there's really much else you can do with Plains, but I'm all for new ideas.

I'd say White Weenies and Tokens are probably the best bets. They may feel a bit vanilla (haha), but they are good at what they do respectively. I see them as very different strategies, with the White Weenie being a slightly faster deck that runs creatures for their value and/or individual strength, while Tokens lists go for a longer game with inevitability by going wide with good mass pump spells.

Other than these two established strategies, there's Rebels I suppose. I would love to see a Mono-White Control list, since it does seems to be getting more and more quality removal.

Quote from Upkeep »

I'd say White Weenies and Tokens are probably the best bets. They may feel a bit vanilla (haha), but they are good at what they do respectively. I see them as very different strategies, with the White Weenie being a slightly faster deck that runs creatures for their value and/or individual strength, while Tokens lists go for a longer game with inevitability by going wide with good mass pump spells.

Other than these two established strategies, there's Rebels I suppose. I would love to see a Mono-White Control list, since it does seems to be getting more and more quality removal.

I was thinking that MWControl would be a possibility and have played with that idea a few times, but as I tuned it became clear that white's more aggressive cards were better. I think I've seen some Metalcraft kind of white decks that looked good, but those have evolved to include red over the last year or so..

There is a Mono-White Primer in our Forum that is called Steel Soldiers. Might be interesting to look at. Looks like just an Equipment deck.

I've officially retired the BUGs & Pigs deck for a more "mainstream" Tortured Existence deck. It took a long time for me to develop a list I was happy with. Every BG deck kind of feels the same, and it's often hard to see which cards are doing the work.

Here's what I came up with (it's also edited in my OP):



The list looks like it will be weak to Hexproof, so I'll have to see whether I want to up the count of Serene Heart. Duress, Festercreep, Sylvok Replica and Gnaw to the Bone are also cards that can be useful in this matchup, I suppose.

I'm not happy with the inclusion of the Dredge cards, as I find them a significantly weaker than the other cards in the list. What they're holding the place for is Arrogant Wurm. Unfortunately, this is an online-only downgrade. Maybe one day...

I found a Rakdos build of Tortured Existence that I liked and so far it does well - although it's probably the hardest deck to pilot in the entire Box. For BG I went with the Jund version that feels like Modern's Living Death death partially for the reason you mentioned above: "Every BG deck kind of feels the same..."

But I have decided to expand the box to 20 decks over the next few months. Since I added Burn it felt like 17 decks was a bad number and 20 is the next milestone. So, 1-Land Spy (absolute garbage but it's a fun diversion) and I'm about half way to finishing a Angler Teachings kind of deck. Since Card Kingdom started doing Pauper Paper tournaments I want to keep an eye on that too to see if there's any inspiration there... although High Tide Combo doesn't really seem like a very fun addition to the box even though it is apparently a solid deck.

EDIT: Oh wait... I built Stompy last week, so UB Angler was #20. Stomp was so late because it really felt like there was too much overlap with Infect, but it seems to have a little more grind to it. So, 3 mono-green decks it is I guess.

I think Combo decks like High Tide and 1-land Spy are just too hard to pilot properly, so shouldn't be in a set of decks that are to "pick up and play".

It's really hard finding a good BG deck that has its own identity. This colour combination is really craving some depth. We'll see how it does for now.

3 Mono-Green does seem like a lot...

Quote from Upkeep »

I think Combo decks like High Tide and 1-land Spy are just too hard to pilot properly, so shouldn't be in a set of decks that are to "pick up and play".

It's really hard finding a good BG deck that has its own identity. This colour combination is really craving some depth. We'll see how it does for now.

3 Mono-Green does seem like a lot...

Now that it has 20 decks I feel like I can get a little more flexible. From my point of view, there are probably 8-10 decks that you can throw in the gauntlet and your average player can do well with. Another 8-10 that require either sustained luck or more advanced skill to be competitive. If the stack was capped at 12 decks there's no way I would go with Combo or 3 green decks, but I feel like at this time I'm filling holes.

3 green decks is a lot of mono-green, but on the Aggro <---> Combo spectrum you have one Stompy being solid aggro with strong synergies, Elves being pretty much 50/50, and Infect being a combo deck. No chance Infect would exist with less than 16 decks, but at 20 I can spread out a bit.

Quote from Galspanic »

Is White Weenie really the only way to go though? I veer between that and tokens (but honestly they feel like the same thing) and find that it's the one deck of the 18 that I have absolutely no interest in playing. I'm not sure there's really much else you can do with Plains, but I'm all for new ideas.

Mono-Red Heroic is a solid deck too. My 8 year old wanted a Pauper deck so we went that route and it holds up against quite a few of the other decks (very limited testing) because it's aggro enough to race most decks but also puts enough creatures on the table that it can manage swarms pretty well.

You could try to play a Control deck using Guardian of the Guildpact and Cenn's Enlistment as finishers, Squadron Hawk, Kor Skyfisher and Custodi Squire (and perhaps Glint Hawk) as card advantage with the myriad of good removal you have (Sunlance, Journey to Nowhere, Gideon's Reproach, Unmake), or even add a Heliod's Pilgrim toolbox. You even have counterspells (albeit crappy ones) in Mana Tithe and Lapse of Certainty that nobody will expect the first few times.

It's really hard finding a good BG deck that has its own identity. This colour combination is really craving some depth. We'll see how it does for now.

Personally I think BG offers many, many building possibilities, all of which are quite unique:

1) TortEx - probably the only one that has put up any numbers on-line. Yes, there's a rakdos variant too but BG always seemed like the original. Commune with the Gods really takes BG TortEx over the top IMO. It is still slow on the start though.
2) The heavy land builds à la i-never-smile's "BG mulch" build, basically BG control with lots of Raven's Crime and mana. This is tried and tested competitive, but never went big.
3) The "Project X" deck with Carrion Feeder, Wirewood Herald and the Ivy Lane Denizen and Safehold Elite combo making an infinite feeder and fetching up utility like Nameless Inversion and Eyeblight's Ending while profiting from morbid etc. Fringe deck but definitely playable.
4) BG aggro with stuff like Putrid Leech - pitching Slaughterhorn for bloodrush on a t1 Young Wolf and then reanimating it with Unearth all on turn 2 is a pretty explosive start! This is like green stompy that splashes black for better removal and unearth.
5) BG Zombies - a black aggro deck that splashes green for Strength of Night (overrun for 4 mana) and better SB options. Pretty decent.

These are not "the same deck" and are all pretty unique IMO.

I've played plenty of Tortex now and I've also tested INS' list years ago (a version of it was the initial BG deck in my bag). I found that the land-heavy build and the tortex decks nevertheless had a similar feeling to them.

Dead Dog (also known as BG Aggro), is just about what I have right now. Some lists run Putrid Leech, but mine doesn't (I wanted to focus more on the enchantment and less on the aggro). My current deck is somewhat of a blend between traditional control lists and dead dog (giving me some sort of midrange deck).

BG zombies was just a bad deck. Maybe I was using the wrong zombies and should have with something more like DNL's build in the online forums. It would be great to have a competitive tribal deck other than elves and goblins.

I've never heard of the carrion combo before. It sounds interesting, if a bit gimmicky. Thanks for sharing!

Quote from Zephyr Scarlet »

You could try to play a Control deck using Guardian of the Guildpact and Cenn's Enlistment as finishers, Squadron Hawk, Kor Skyfisher and Custodi Squire (and perhaps Glint Hawk) as card advantage with the myriad of good removal you have (Sunlance, Journey to Nowhere, Gideon's Reproach, Unmake), or even add a Heliod's Pilgrim toolbox. You even have counterspells (albeit crappy ones) in Mana Tithe and Lapse of Certainty that nobody will expect the first few times.

Those are all great ideas and should be explored!

I finally got a chance to try out pauper, since a small tournament were organized at my LGS - sure is a fun format.

I didn't do that well, but nothing went terrible either. I only had cards for an Eye-Candy deck, and the deck really surprised me. It's so explosive! If you either have Cyclops or Kiln down, all it takes is 3 spells, with one of them being Temur Battle Rage to win on the spot. But it also got me thinking, why Delver of Secrets? The card is good, for sure, but I what experienced playing with the deck, the damage my turn 1 delver did, was often totally irrelevant. Why not add a bit more control, to establish the combopieces before going off? The deck felt pretty vulnerable to control or combo decks, which counterspell could help with.

Quote from rogerandover »

I finally got a chance to try out pauper, since a small tournament were organized at my LGS - sure is a fun format.

I didn't do that well, but nothing went terrible either. I only had cards for an Eye-Candy deck, and the deck really surprised me. It's so explosive! If you either have Cyclops or Kiln down, all it takes is 3 spells, with one of them being Temur Battle Rage to win on the spot. But it also got me thinking, why Delver of Secrets? The card is good, for sure, but I what experienced playing with the deck, the damage my turn 1 delver did, was often totally irrelevant. Why not add a bit more control, to establish the combopieces before going off? The deck felt pretty vulnerable to control or combo decks, which counterspell could help with.

You need creature density and with as many Instants and Sorceries as the deck has it's too good not to run. You could protect the 8 creatures that can win right away by dropping Delver, but you already should have enough in the board to cover it. I've also found that with the Khans lands hitting your opponent for 22-23 is a lot harder to do without a second creature as well.

Quote from rogerandover »

But it also got me thinking, why Delver of Secrets? The card is good, for sure, but I what experienced playing with the deck, the damage my turn 1 delver did, was often totally irrelevant. Why not add a bit more control, to establish the combopieces before going off? The deck felt pretty vulnerable to control or combo decks, which counterspell could help with.

There are some situations where your deck will be able to do well over twenty damage. However, in many cases, the opponent will be disrupting you by either destroying your creatures, countering your spells, or blocking. Dealing 20+ damage can be very difficult, especially the later the game goes on.

With Delver of Secrets, you'll find that he can do upwards of six damage very easily, and often just take the game by himself if unanswered. It becomes so much easier to kill an opponent when they're at 16-13 life or less.

Your deck is very low on threats to begin with, so Delver is also a welcome addition for that. I've seen some decks playing a card from DTK that gets +1/+0 and unblockable, but I don't think it's a good card.

I have two decks I think might be better for your WB and UG selections.

The first is a taxes list that I have found to be quite good:



the second is walls combo:



I am not sure which is the most consistent way to go off but I like having a critical mass of ways. Also Shield sphere is MVP since it turns trinket mage into a wall basically and gives you tons of time vs. agro.

for RB there was a list back in the day that was played and might be more relevant now that there is more mana fixing:



Also, I know you have included burn, but you should also probably have Mono red goblins in that list as well. It does better against a number of matchups, has deathspark, and goblin grenade.

Thanks for the input.

Your WB list looks interesting, but I would like a lot more detail about them and mostly why you think they are better choices than my current ones. I agree my BW list is rather unimpressive, and I'm currently trying to improve the build (you can see my current efforts in the Pestilence Primer).

I really like the Trinket Mage into Shield Sphere tech; that's very interesting! Unfortunately, I do not use online rarity downgrades (no Tangle, Chainer's Edict), which means Shield Sphere is not considered a common here. I also highly doubt that the wall combo deck is better than Turbo Fog. Then again, I have a rather large bias from playing Turbo Fog a lot and from the fact that Wall combo has never performed well online (as far as I know).

Your RB deck is... interesting to say the least. I think any deck trying to maximize the use of Mimics will eventually run into the problem of there not being enough good multicolour cards to really abuse it. Stream Hopper makes me just a little sad. Where did you get this list?

I will not be adding a second mono-Red deck, because I want to keep the colours in balance as much as possible (I cheat here and there). I had explained before that I included Burn instead of Goblins for the sake of diversity of strategies. While Burn is an aggro deck, it accomplishes its goal in a completely different way than any other deck, making it more valuable in a collection like this in my eyes than Goblins does.

I made some changes to mine after watching all the Pauper League results that have been pouring in on MTGO. As much as I think RG Slivers is the stronger build, GW seems to be the most popular and commonly known of the Sliver decks. Losing Convoke, Haste, First Strike for 1, and Lightning Bolt felt bad but I will acquiesce to conformity on a lot of these things. By making the deck GW that meant that I had GW Hexproof, GW Gond Combo, and GW Slivers - way too much Selesnya. So, I took the Gond Combo deck and merged it with White Aggro to play with a Soul Sisters deck that will hopefully not be as dull as White Aggro. And from there I used the scraps to start a Kuldotha Jeskai deck since that seems to show up a lot and I've somehow managed to never build that one. So,
OUT:
RG Slivers
White Aggro
Gond Combo
IN:
GW Slivers
Soul Sisters
Kuldotha Jeskai

I think that should add a little variety to the box. If not I figure that Jeskai can easily switch to Acid Trip and White can do whatever white wants to do.

Quote from NedB37 »

Only just found the thread and enjoying it! I've been trying to cultivate a paper group at my local LGS on casual Mondays and got two so far with another guy interested. I can't seem to stop building decks! Think I'm up to 4 with 1 in pieces and a further 1 planned. I've actually stopped playing anything other than pauper and EDH, now. Just find everything else less accessible or fun! I started playing in '95 and pauper just evokes so many memories of kitchen table magic with friends.

I suspect that a few of us are in these shoes. EDH is great and has been my main format for 5 years, but as time went on I found that I wanted variety and didn't always want a 45-450 minute game. Pauper has been relatively accessible and easy to sell people on as long as I provide the decks - some are starting to pick up their own too. I could take some pointless card that surged because of Modern, flip it on PucaTrade, and get a Pauper deck in return. Really, was I getting more value from a Delver deck or a Goblin Guide? So, as I've swapped out single expensive cards for Pauper decks things have been going well.
Not aimed at you, but something that's come up a lot lately....Contrary to popular belief though, Pauper decks are not $5-$10. You can find decks for as little as $20 and as much as $110. Most seems to be in that $30-$40 range though.

Galspanic,

I think you'll find you also gain quite a bit with White, namely Sinew Sliver and Journey to Nowhere. This must make up in part for the loss of many good Red cards?

Soul Sisters is fun to play, actually! It feels powerful, but it's also possible to interact with/against it, making it interesting.

Can we have a list for Kuldotha Jeskai? My Bag has an obvious lack of 3-colour decks, so having a number of them in the comments is certainly interesting for whoever comes across this thread.

I have a price listing for all of my decks, and very few of them are under $15. I'd say the average must be something like $22. It still isn't very much to pay for a competitive deck in a format!

EDIT: The average price is actually $28.03. Quite a bit more than what I was expecting. Though I must admit Burn, Tron and Eye Candy really drive the price up.

Hi NedB37!

Thanks for your compliments! I'm really happy to hear that you've found this thread useful!

Honestly, I couldn't agree more about Pauper. I was an avid Legacy player, but it can be quite an overwhelming environment, and I slowly found myself very much alone in the format in my area. Pauper helped me fill the void of the fun of eternal formats while still keeping power at a reasonable level for everyone to enjoy and allowing for a lot of exploration and brewing. It's honestly my favorite format right now. I hope you get lots of converts!

Quote from Upkeep »

Galspanic,

I think you'll find you also gain quite a bit with White, namely Sinew Sliver and Journey to Nowhere. This must make up in part for the loss of many good Red cards?

Soul Sisters is fun to play, actually! It feels powerful, but it's also possible to interact with/against it, making it interesting.

Can we have a list for Kuldotha Jeskai? My Bag has an obvious lack of 3-colour decks, so having a number of them in the comments is certainly interesting for whoever comes across this thread.

I have a price listing for all of my decks, and very few of them are under $15. I'd say the average must be something like $22. It still isn't very much to pay for a competitive deck in a format!

I built the GW Slivers deck and it is powerful, but losing Bolt, haste, and Provoke just feels bad. I know that Sinew and Sidewinder are solid, but still Slivers feels so much more like a RG aggro deck to me. But, because I like my Box to represent the current online meta-game I'll acquiesce.
Soul Sisters seems like it's a good fit in the Box to represent White because it's more interesting that weenie aggro and it seems a little less linear than tokens... although arguably it's a Token deck that wants to spam 1/1s until you can make them all 3/3s and attack. But in any case, it's popular enough online that it makes sense to just add it.

The list I'm using is super stock if you look here: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/357647#online Nothing exciting at all, but when it's the second most popular deck on MTGO, it goes in. I'm still missing the artifact lands though so I won't get to try it out for a while.

But, to address what you said, 3 color is a lot easier to work with now. The Life lands are really good and the 2-3 points of life you gain from them will often times be enough to act as a mini time walk. I've brought myself above aggress reach before because of that life gain. And, once you are stabilized with your colors it opens things up a lot. I've seen Kuldotha Jeskai, Kuldotha Mardu, and even Naya. I even saw a GW Sliver deck that splashed for red for Heart Sliver (and may try that out too). After watching the online meta for a couple years it's only been in the last 2 months or so that people seem to be openly pushing 3+ colors. So, we shall see where that goes.

Really though, I think you should have at least 1 Shard and 1 Khan in there just to see how it plays out.

Well, Tron is basically a Temur deck, because Gruul decks just aren't good enough. And I suppose the Red splash in the sideboard of the Hexproof deck technically makes it Naya...

Quote from Upkeep »

Well, Tron is basically a Temur deck, because Gruul decks just aren't good enough. And I suppose the Red splash in the sideboard of the Hexproof deck technically makes it Naya...

Tron is basically a colorless deck that makes concessions in RUG. It's like Affinity being a 5 Color deck... sorta, but really it's an artifact deck that uses 5 colors to max out the artifact lands.
Seriously, look at some of the RWU and GWB decks and see if you can squeeze one in just have a true 3 color experience.

I really feel like just having one at each color range is kind of silly especially when you have 3 or 4 viable blue decks, and at least 3 viable green decks.

Also it occurs to me that UG elves would probably be best for that slot, since its actually a tier deck.

I'd probably expand it to 2 of the mono colored varieties and one of the multi color varieties.

I know its a lot of decks but its pauper after all. You dont have to take all the decks each time you use them.