Viewing that sometimes I'd like a bit more flexibility, I've swapped the three Snap for three Piracy Charm. This card provides a lot of flexibility: it can be removal, a combat trick (Charm your own Hidden Spider blocking a Spire Golem, is the only way I have to take it out, for example, or charm your Aquamoeba to block a Carapace Forger), reach in form of two extra points, unblockability for a super-pumped Wild Mongrel for the win in case the other player has islands, or simply discard at instant speed to avoid counterspells if I suspect the other player of having one. Here's a list of what Piracy Charm can take out:
Plus in addition to Quicksand it can take on any non-flying, 3 toughness creature
Because of this, I'll now need a solid SB card (as oppossed to just bounce) to help and fight through MBC with the help of Spell Pierce and the mainboard counterspells and Bouncer.
Cards I'm currently looking at:
- Aboshan's Desire / Alexi's Cloak: Cloak has flash to use it in response to removal, so it has the advantage of not being destroyed while on the stack by removing the creature I'm enchanting. It's also faster than Desire, which requires Threshold. On the other hand, Desire creates a fearsome clock by making it able to fly over the enemy's defenses, so he can't chumpblock until he draws an answer. Threshold should not be that hard to obtain thanks to counters, discard outlets, cycle lands, fetchlands and the guys that are dying.
- Krosan Avenger: Evasion and regeneration upon threshold, I would run this as a 2-of even in Mainboard. The only problem I have with this girl is -x/-x effects like Dead Weight / Disfigure and the fact that I can't regen her the turn she comes down.
- Blastoderm: Double G is pretty hard to obtain, and it costs 4, but if this sticks, they will take a beating if they don't have edicts.
Piracy Charm was a popular card when Goblins was more prominent. I could certainly see it being used. I just wonder why a deck like Delver, used by many of the best players around, never runs this card and prefers Snap. I suppose a free spell that can bounce anything is a bit more versatile.
Are you having troubles against MBC?
I think going for hexproof creatures is a much better plan than running auras. I really like Mire Boa, actually. There's always bigger hexproof creatures like Primal Huntbeast, or Benthic Giant is still looking for a friendly home.
I dunno, trying to think out of the box here. I'll give it some time and hopefully come up with something better.
I took out one Werebear and one Bouncer for two Krosan Avenger, and I'm working on trying to fit that 4th werebear again. I'm in desperate need of a cheap, shroud or removal-evasive creature like Shimmering Glasskite. The problem is that their edicts still do me in no matter what.
Does this stuff really need to be maindeck material? Avenger is just so bad. You can't be prepared for everything, as I said before. Your strategy makes you weak to certain other strategies, and there's only so much you can do to prepare without diluting your other matches and card choices for something that is ultimately sub-par.
I can certainly go back to the previous build, but I'd leave Krosan Avenger out of the board and try something like Mire Boa. From this point on, it's just a matter of just finding the card that best fights MBC, something that has protection from black, shroud, hexproof or recursion and that is efficient at the same time
Stormbound Geist actually looks pretty good. It takes two removal spells to deal with it, making it a downright nightmare for MBC. +1 to that suggestion!
I also think Snap is better than Charm, but I do admit both have their merits.
Werebear is there in order to not let all of the aggro aproach fall on Arrogant Wurm, since as you said, Roar of the Wurm sadly didn't got a downgrade to common in Vintage Masters.
Snap was good but it's practically useless against EtB things like Spellstutter Sprite or Liliana's Specter, which are killed by Piracy Charm. There are a lot of creatures that die to Piracy Charm, and even more that die to Piracy + Quicksand or some good blocking, which is an inmediate answer, although Snap was good too.
I certainly haven't tried Rancor because I'm usually tight on mana and I usually see myself playing creatures or leaving counterspell mana up instead of pumping something. This is the very same reason why I cut a Basking Rootwalla
Maybe I can cut the three Waterfront Bouncer and a Werebear for the full four Stormbound Geist? Although Bouncer was an all star against MBC and combo MU's like WeeFiends or Presence of Gond.
Stormbound Geist should deinitely be in the sideboard. It's pretty tech against MBC, but might just be a bad Wind Drake versus many other decks. Important to note he can't block non-flying.
Quicksand has been good for me since I haven't got any double colored costs. About the cycling lands, they might go though, because as you say, I can simply fodder them to another thing. I went back to Snap and I'm running 2 Stormbound Geist, and looking at what to cut for the 3rd.
As you can see, I took out Waterfront Bouncer since it was pretty slow and even in the matchups it mattered, the opponent would just get rid of him before I could untap with him on board. Plus it has 0 offensive pressure. I added in the 4th Snap, but there are 59 cards, which leaves us with 1 more slot. Do I fit in a 4th Daze or a 4th Deep Analysis? Do I take out a Werebear and play 2 Rancor as suggested or add some Mana Leak as extra counters? Also I'd like to know if there's some efficient beater out there like Wurm or Bear that is escaping my radar.
It's incredibly fast and strong, and in play it looks like the bastard child of Delver and Stompy. If you make sure you have 1 of each land in the opener and either an Aquamoeba and Wild Mongrel, you will win against Delver. Gut Shot, Daze and Circular Logic are really tough for them, and cards like Hooting Mandrills that are extremely easy to cast or Arrogant Wurm which has flash and can be cast whenever you want will really ruin their day. I switched Deep Analysis and a land for the playset of AK. While I agree that the first one is somewhat subpar, it's fine as either a cycle or discard fodder, but the second one draws the same cards than Analysis at instant speed and without costing life, and it only gets better from there.
Squall in the side is an interesting choice, but I prefer Hidden Spider as my anti-flying tech. You can sneak it past countermagic with it's easy casting cost and it will eat up basically anything. Having Vapor Snag, you ensure that they have to re-drop the flying guy to trigger Spider, so that's not usually a problem.
One more thing about the sideboard, I saw some posts back some cards helping for the MUC machup, I have 1 or 2 of those in my meta and was thinking about playing Squall or are the other options better?
Scattershot Archer is still the most popular anti-flying sideboard card in Pauper. It is now followed very closely by Aerial Volley, which is an excellent option. Hidden Spider is often forgotten, but can be a powerful early-game drop. Unfortunately, it often fails to be useful when drawn later in the game. I've tried Squall a lot in my own decks, but the sorcery speed and 3-mana price tag is just too much.
Aerial Volley is an interesting card, haven't played with it so I will give it a shot instead of Hidden Spider.
About Deep Analysis vs Accumulated Knowledge, you never cast Analysis for its full cost unless you're losing badly, so you never draw 2 cards with a single one. The fact that we have 3 lands to work with most of the time and that it's used as discard fodder will prevent you from doing that. I know you aren't guaranteed multiple copies of Knowledge, but the first one is either Think Twice or discard fodder for Mongrel / Aquamoeba.
Gut Shot is what gives the edge over Delver. Being able to respond the most played creature in the format without any tempo loss is just great, and also being able to sabotage the Faerie count of Spellstutter Sprite for free will give you the advantage. That said, if you don't face any Delvers you can cut it entirely for something else - Piracy Charm will kill the same stuff that Gut Shot does anyways so you might as well try something different. Gitaxian Probe or Gush seem like the better options here.
I've been re-testing and re-playing this deck while also taking a look at the old Standard and Extended Madness decks to see where its strength lied. I went back to the drawing board ignoring my actual decklist and this is what I've found:
1) A 19-land manabase with 2+ Quicksand is the optimal one. Since your meta has just Bogles and the Flying lifelinker deck I suppose you could get away with 3, but I would test it as a 2-of before. When deckbuilding, do not count Quicksand as a land, but as a kill spell that can as well produce mana when it's inactive. Therefore, if we work under this assumption, we're operating on 19 lands, with 2 kill spells that cheat on the mana a bit. Fetchlands are the only ETBT lands I'd consider because they feed the graveyard. Cyclelands are bad in this deck IMO, because essentially all your lands in the deck have free cycling with the discard outlets and don't come into play tapped.
2) If you're facing a critical mass of Graveyard hate or tokens / chumpblockers, go with Hooting Mandrills. Otherwise, stick to Werebear, it's plain better. Period. While Mandrills, Circular Logic and "Multiples matter" spells like Accumulated Knowledge are certainly compatible, running Werebear eases your strain on the graveyard a whole lot. He can also accelerate in the first few turns when Threshold isn't active or right after your yard has been blown out, and consistently costs 1G, while with Mandrills you have to jump through hoops to cast it for just a mere 1 cheaper and might even get countered, not to mention the suffering of chaining the fourth or even third.
3) You want at least 8-10 counterspells. Since we don't have any real removal spells, we have to deal with all the threats preemptively by using counterspells. 4 of them will be Circular Logic, and the other can be a mixture of Mana Leak and Daze. I prefer Mana Leak for it's ability to stay live longer than Daze, but a split is obviously doable.
4) You want at least 10 Madness outlets. This is non-negotiable. Less than 10 Madness outlets could lead to more mulligans that one might want. 8 of them will obviously be the star creatures of the deck, Wild Mongrel and Aquamoeba. The rest can be either Merfolk Looter if you value turning dead draws into cards or making all your Madness cards cantrip with no cost attached, or Waterfront Bouncer if you like the possibility of turning your dead draws into Unsummon and giving your Madness cards "Kicker U: Unsummon", but it comes with mana cost. Currently, I prefer the former, but the later can save your guys from removal too while setting another threat up, so testing will be required.
5) Ponder is better than Careful Study. What made Careful Study broken in the first place was the ability to pitch Roar of the Wurm, Wonder and Deep Analysis, of which we only have the latter. Even if you're trying to turbo-charge a Werebear you won't get anything out of it since you will flash Deep Analysis back, effectively downgrading Threshold. Furthermore, Study accomplishes nothing as a Madness outlet, as it's incompatible with Circular Logic and just reduces the cost of Arrogant Wurm by 1 while taking out the Flash. For Careful Study to be the better card you have to run full playsets of Rune Snag and Æther Burst in order to have cards to pitch into it, alongside some good quantity of Daze to allow for the explosive T1 of Study into Rootwalla with Daze backup.
With these results, I've elaborated the following decklist, which sits at 64 cards, meaning 4 of them have to go:
Seems like the werebear should be the one removed, since it requires filling a graveyard and is weaker than Arrogant Wurm. You could then switch careful study for ponder, and maybe look into Hooting Mandrills as a 2 of.
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I realized the deck needed more counters because by adding more counters, my matchups against MBC and decks running troublesome creatures that can overrun mine got better. We do not have removal, thus our only way of affecting the board is by playing undercosted fat beaters. If said fat beaters get outmatched or removed, what do we have? I had no problem applying pressure, but maintaining it in the mid game, and the counters solved that quite nicely. This is my list right now:
I decided to cut a land and the two Merfolk Looter for a playset of Preordain, so now I have 61 cards. By playing both Ponder and Preordain I think I can safely cut back in Madness outlets beccause I will have an easier time finding one with all my dig, and Looter was certainly the worst and most frail of them all. I cut a land back under the same premise: all of the cantrips help me dig for one so they also act as mana fixing, and, while they're removal and beaters respectively, both Quicksand and Werebear help me develop my mana in the first few turns, so the 61th card I cut migh be another land.
Now I need some place to slot the Bounce cards (probably Vapor Snag again) and perhaps some Delver of Secrets?
Thought Scour is just bad though since it only cantrips blindly and we don't play any cards with Flashback other than Analysis. The Careful Study in my previous post were a typo, they're actually Deep Analysis, so sorry for that.
You're probably right about Delver fitting more in UG Tempo Thresh rather than Madness, but that was just blissful thinking that with 21 noncreatures including a playset of Ponder and Preordain we would be able to run it. I'm thinking in cutting another land and go down to 19 while using the Quicksand less aggressively and Werebear as a dork early game since in my last incarnation before this one I could pull it with just 18, and now I even have the 8 cantrips. This makes me sit at 60 cards now, so now all that's left is to fit in those Vapor Snags to help with the tempo and we're all good.
I think cutting Quicksand is a mistake since it's the only piece of true removal we can get our hands on (Serrated Arrows at 4 is one mana too pricy unfortunately) besides timely counterspells. I basically run the same shell as you except I've eschewed the Delver of Secrets and Preordain altogether in favor of the bulkier Werebear and more counters to protect my threats and remove creatures in Mana Leak. I also run on 19 lands and 3 Careful Study and I'm not having problems even without taking into account Werebear as a mana dork. So I think Delver has to go unfortunately.
On the topic of Burst vs Snag I can't decide on which one is better. Burst can cause potential blowouts in combat math and even steal a game right away, but then again we're not a draw happy deck and we aren't guaranteed multiples. Just one costs double than a Snag and doesn't ping. I think that one will require a great amount of testing to decide which one is better.
I took the latest build Zephyr Scarlet posted and dropped the Deep Analysis for Vapor Snag. There seems to be enough draw with Ponder and Preordain that Deep Analysis seemed kind of redundant and the worse of the 3. I also dropped an island to round the deck out at 60 cards, but I'm not sure if this was a good idea.
The vapor snags worked wonders, I definitely recommend putting them in.
I'm also considering switching out Ponder for Brainstorm for the instant speed. Being able to keep shields up for counterspells seems worth it.
And dropping Basking Rootwalla for Delver of secrets, it just seems like there are more situations where you would rather have a Delver than a Rootwalla.
@ frigis: Deck looks solid, although 8 card selection spels might a bit to many. Also there is not a card like carefull study in the deck to make ur werebears grow more quickly, but maybe you wont experience to much trouble over that, looking forward to hear from you how the deck plays
Yea, after playing some games with it with real opponents, getting werebear to grow quickly without careful study isn't a problem. By the time I need werebear to be a 4/4, there are already enough cards in the graveyard for it.
The 8 card selection spells work well. I've never been upset over having one or multiple in hand. They do their job of digging into my counterspells or vapor snag. I think the weakest card in the deck is mana leak, but I don't know what I'd drop it for. I definitely need a counterspell of some sort in that slot. I might drop it for some rune snags. I have also been having some minor mana issues from time to time. I might want to bump up the land count to 20 again. I think the deck would be safe with just 7 discard outlets. 4 Wild Mongrel and 3 Aquamoeba.
I haven't had any problems with any match ups yet. However I haven't come across elves yet. This deck just flat out destroys mono black. So far I've come across Simic Mimic, WG Auras, mono blue Delver, mono black control, and esper control. My deck seemed to have the favorable matchup against all of them. Although my playgroup plays a bit casually.
I just picked up UG up for madness and I'm wondering: Is there some sort of way to get mass flying in pauper? Zephyr Charge is all I found. Also, what are the merits of Obsessive Search (if any?) seems like a good cycle card, I dunno.
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Violence isn't the answer, it's the question. The answer's "yes"
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- Delver of Secrets in response to flip trigger
- Phantasmal Bear
- Wild Nacatl in response to fetchlands
- Spellstutter Sprite in response to the EtB trigger to diminish their fae count to 0
- Cloud of Faeries
- Crypt Rats
- Auriok Sunchaser and Ardent Recruit in response to metalcraft being activated
- Krark-Clan Shaman
- Quirion Ranger
- Porcelain Legionnaire
- Vault Skirge
- Squadron Hawk
- Liliana's Specter
- All elves except Timberwatch Elf
- All goblins except Goblin Cohort
- All faeries
Plus in addition to Quicksand it can take on any non-flying, 3 toughness creature
Because of this, I'll now need a solid SB card (as oppossed to just bounce) to help and fight through MBC with the help of Spell Pierce and the mainboard counterspells and Bouncer.
Cards I'm currently looking at:
- Aboshan's Desire / Alexi's Cloak: Cloak has flash to use it in response to removal, so it has the advantage of not being destroyed while on the stack by removing the creature I'm enchanting. It's also faster than Desire, which requires Threshold. On the other hand, Desire creates a fearsome clock by making it able to fly over the enemy's defenses, so he can't chumpblock until he draws an answer. Threshold should not be that hard to obtain thanks to counters, discard outlets, cycle lands, fetchlands and the guys that are dying.
- Krosan Avenger: Evasion and regeneration upon threshold, I would run this as a 2-of even in Mainboard. The only problem I have with this girl is -x/-x effects like Dead Weight / Disfigure and the fact that I can't regen her the turn she comes down.
- Blastoderm: Double G is pretty hard to obtain, and it costs 4, but if this sticks, they will take a beating if they don't have edicts.
Mire Boa and Fortitude are also kinda interesting.
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Are you having troubles against MBC?
I think going for hexproof creatures is a much better plan than running auras. I really like Mire Boa, actually. There's always bigger hexproof creatures like Primal Huntbeast, or Benthic Giant is still looking for a friendly home.
I dunno, trying to think out of the box here. I'll give it some time and hopefully come up with something better.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Basking Rootwalla
3 Werebear
2 Krosan Avenger
2 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
3 Piracy Charm
Sorcery (7)
4 Careful Study
3 Deep Analysis
Lands (21)
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Lonely Sandbar
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Quicksand
6 Forest
7 Island
I took out one Werebear and one Bouncer for two Krosan Avenger, and I'm working on trying to fit that 4th werebear again. I'm in desperate need of a cheap, shroud or removal-evasive creature like Shimmering Glasskite. The problem is that their edicts still do me in no matter what.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
UGTurboFogGU
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16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I also think Snap is better than Charm, but I do admit both have their merits.
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Snap was good but it's practically useless against EtB things like Spellstutter Sprite or Liliana's Specter, which are killed by Piracy Charm. There are a lot of creatures that die to Piracy Charm, and even more that die to Piracy + Quicksand or some good blocking, which is an inmediate answer, although Snap was good too.
I certainly haven't tried Rancor because I'm usually tight on mana and I usually see myself playing creatures or leaving counterspell mana up instead of pumping something. This is the very same reason why I cut a Basking Rootwalla
Maybe I can cut the three Waterfront Bouncer and a Werebear for the full four Stormbound Geist? Although Bouncer was an all star against MBC and combo MU's like WeeFiends or Presence of Gond.
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UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Werebear
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Aquamoeba
4 Snap
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
Sorcery (7)
4 Careful Study
3 Deep Analysis
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Quicksand
8 Island
7 Forest
As you can see, I took out Waterfront Bouncer since it was pretty slow and even in the matchups it mattered, the opponent would just get rid of him before I could untap with him on board. Plus it has 0 offensive pressure. I added in the 4th Snap, but there are 59 cards, which leaves us with 1 more slot. Do I fit in a 4th Daze or a 4th Deep Analysis? Do I take out a Werebear and play 2 Rancor as suggested or add some Mana Leak as extra counters? Also I'd like to know if there's some efficient beater out there like Wurm or Bear that is escaping my radar.
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4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Aquamoeba
2 Merfolk Looter
3 Careful Study
Instant (18)
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Circular Logic
4 Vapor Snag
3 Daze
3 Gut Shot
4 Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
8 Island
It's incredibly fast and strong, and in play it looks like the bastard child of Delver and Stompy. If you make sure you have 1 of each land in the opener and either an Aquamoeba and Wild Mongrel, you will win against Delver. Gut Shot, Daze and Circular Logic are really tough for them, and cards like Hooting Mandrills that are extremely easy to cast or Arrogant Wurm which has flash and can be cast whenever you want will really ruin their day. I switched Deep Analysis and a land for the playset of AK. While I agree that the first one is somewhat subpar, it's fine as either a cycle or discard fodder, but the second one draws the same cards than Analysis at instant speed and without costing life, and it only gets better from there.
Squall in the side is an interesting choice, but I prefer Hidden Spider as my anti-flying tech. You can sneak it past countermagic with it's easy casting cost and it will eat up basically anything. Having Vapor Snag, you ensure that they have to re-drop the flying guy to trigger Spider, so that's not usually a problem.
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Scattershot Archer is still the most popular anti-flying sideboard card in Pauper. It is now followed very closely by Aerial Volley, which is an excellent option. Hidden Spider is often forgotten, but can be a powerful early-game drop. Unfortunately, it often fails to be useful when drawn later in the game. I've tried Squall a lot in my own decks, but the sorcery speed and 3-mana price tag is just too much.
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About Deep Analysis vs Accumulated Knowledge, you never cast Analysis for its full cost unless you're losing badly, so you never draw 2 cards with a single one. The fact that we have 3 lands to work with most of the time and that it's used as discard fodder will prevent you from doing that. I know you aren't guaranteed multiple copies of Knowledge, but the first one is either Think Twice or discard fodder for Mongrel / Aquamoeba.
Gut Shot is what gives the edge over Delver. Being able to respond the most played creature in the format without any tempo loss is just great, and also being able to sabotage the Faerie count of Spellstutter Sprite for free will give you the advantage. That said, if you don't face any Delvers you can cut it entirely for something else - Piracy Charm will kill the same stuff that Gut Shot does anyways so you might as well try something different. Gitaxian Probe or Gush seem like the better options here.
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1) A 19-land manabase with 2+ Quicksand is the optimal one. Since your meta has just Bogles and the Flying lifelinker deck I suppose you could get away with 3, but I would test it as a 2-of before. When deckbuilding, do not count Quicksand as a land, but as a kill spell that can as well produce mana when it's inactive. Therefore, if we work under this assumption, we're operating on 19 lands, with 2 kill spells that cheat on the mana a bit. Fetchlands are the only ETBT lands I'd consider because they feed the graveyard. Cyclelands are bad in this deck IMO, because essentially all your lands in the deck have free cycling with the discard outlets and don't come into play tapped.
2) If you're facing a critical mass of Graveyard hate or tokens / chumpblockers, go with Hooting Mandrills. Otherwise, stick to Werebear, it's plain better. Period. While Mandrills, Circular Logic and "Multiples matter" spells like Accumulated Knowledge are certainly compatible, running Werebear eases your strain on the graveyard a whole lot. He can also accelerate in the first few turns when Threshold isn't active or right after your yard has been blown out, and consistently costs 1G, while with Mandrills you have to jump through hoops to cast it for just a mere 1 cheaper and might even get countered, not to mention the suffering of chaining the fourth or even third.
3) You want at least 8-10 counterspells. Since we don't have any real removal spells, we have to deal with all the threats preemptively by using counterspells. 4 of them will be Circular Logic, and the other can be a mixture of Mana Leak and Daze. I prefer Mana Leak for it's ability to stay live longer than Daze, but a split is obviously doable.
4) You want at least 10 Madness outlets. This is non-negotiable. Less than 10 Madness outlets could lead to more mulligans that one might want. 8 of them will obviously be the star creatures of the deck, Wild Mongrel and Aquamoeba. The rest can be either Merfolk Looter if you value turning dead draws into cards or making all your Madness cards cantrip with no cost attached, or Waterfront Bouncer if you like the possibility of turning your dead draws into Unsummon and giving your Madness cards "Kicker U: Unsummon", but it comes with mana cost. Currently, I prefer the former, but the later can save your guys from removal too while setting another threat up, so testing will be required.
5) Ponder is better than Careful Study. What made Careful Study broken in the first place was the ability to pitch Roar of the Wurm, Wonder and Deep Analysis, of which we only have the latter. Even if you're trying to turbo-charge a Werebear you won't get anything out of it since you will flash Deep Analysis back, effectively downgrading Threshold. Furthermore, Study accomplishes nothing as a Madness outlet, as it's incompatible with Circular Logic and just reduces the cost of Arrogant Wurm by 1 while taking out the Flash. For Careful Study to be the better card you have to run full playsets of Rune Snag and Æther Burst in order to have cards to pitch into it, alongside some good quantity of Daze to allow for the explosive T1 of Study into Rootwalla with Daze backup.
With these results, I've elaborated the following decklist, which sits at 64 cards, meaning 4 of them have to go:
2 Merfolk Looter
4 Aquamoeba
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Daze
4 Circular Logic
4 Rune Snag
4 Æther Burst
Sorcery (7)
4 Careful Study
3 Deep Analysis
2 Quicksand
4 Evolving Wilds
7 Forest
8 Island
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
4 Aquamoeba
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
3 Mana Leak
Sorcery (11)
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Deep Analysis
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Quicksand
6 Forest
8 Island
I decided to cut a land and the two Merfolk Looter for a playset of Preordain, so now I have 61 cards. By playing both Ponder and Preordain I think I can safely cut back in Madness outlets beccause I will have an easier time finding one with all my dig, and Looter was certainly the worst and most frail of them all. I cut a land back under the same premise: all of the cantrips help me dig for one so they also act as mana fixing, and, while they're removal and beaters respectively, both Quicksand and Werebear help me develop my mana in the first few turns, so the 61th card I cut migh be another land.
Now I need some place to slot the Bounce cards (probably Vapor Snag again) and perhaps some Delver of Secrets?
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
You're probably right about Delver fitting more in UG Tempo Thresh rather than Madness, but that was just blissful thinking that with 21 noncreatures including a playset of Ponder and Preordain we would be able to run it. I'm thinking in cutting another land and go down to 19 while using the Quicksand less aggressively and Werebear as a dork early game since in my last incarnation before this one I could pull it with just 18, and now I even have the 8 cantrips. This makes me sit at 60 cards now, so now all that's left is to fit in those Vapor Snags to help with the tempo and we're all good.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
On the topic of Burst vs Snag I can't decide on which one is better. Burst can cause potential blowouts in combat math and even steal a game right away, but then again we're not a draw happy deck and we aren't guaranteed multiples. Just one costs double than a Snag and doesn't ping. I think that one will require a great amount of testing to decide which one is better.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
4 Aquamoeba
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
3 Mana Leak
3 Vapor Snag
Sorcery (8)
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Quicksand
6 Forest
7 Island
I took the latest build Zephyr Scarlet posted and dropped the Deep Analysis for Vapor Snag. There seems to be enough draw with Ponder and Preordain that Deep Analysis seemed kind of redundant and the worse of the 3. I also dropped an island to round the deck out at 60 cards, but I'm not sure if this was a good idea.
The vapor snags worked wonders, I definitely recommend putting them in.
I'm also considering switching out Ponder for Brainstorm for the instant speed. Being able to keep shields up for counterspells seems worth it.
And dropping Basking Rootwalla for Delver of secrets, it just seems like there are more situations where you would rather have a Delver than a Rootwalla.
I played this deck back when it was type 2 and i loved it and im glad I get to mostly play it again
The matchup vs esper blink or whatever that boring crap is, is horrible
I want to try out a small black splash for pyschotic haze in the sb
Yea, after playing some games with it with real opponents, getting werebear to grow quickly without careful study isn't a problem. By the time I need werebear to be a 4/4, there are already enough cards in the graveyard for it.
The 8 card selection spells work well. I've never been upset over having one or multiple in hand. They do their job of digging into my counterspells or vapor snag. I think the weakest card in the deck is mana leak, but I don't know what I'd drop it for. I definitely need a counterspell of some sort in that slot. I might drop it for some rune snags. I have also been having some minor mana issues from time to time. I might want to bump up the land count to 20 again. I think the deck would be safe with just 7 discard outlets. 4 Wild Mongrel and 3 Aquamoeba.
I haven't had any problems with any match ups yet. However I haven't come across elves yet. This deck just flat out destroys mono black. So far I've come across Simic Mimic, WG Auras, mono blue Delver, mono black control, and esper control. My deck seemed to have the favorable matchup against all of them. Although my playgroup plays a bit casually.
I'm thinking of changing the build to this:
3 Aquamoeba
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
3 Rune Snag
3 Vapor Snag
Sorcery (8)
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Quicksand
6 Forest
8 Island