So I'm looking at Neheb, the Eternal.
Part of me has written this off as too cute to be useful, but the other part of me says "Wow! That's a lot of potential"
Being post-combat, we can use *anything* to hurt our opponents in order to gain substantial mana, starting with the upkeep phase, which is very flexible considering how easy red perms, and non-perms alike, can deal damage to multiple opponents quickly. Purphoros, God of the Forge would love this guy, but is Neheb even necessary here anyway?
Outside Purph is where I'm looking FWIW, as that card is getting crazy expensive for a MP card.
There are probably better options, but Pyrohemia seems like a good starting point in this discussion. It multiplies your red mana times the number of players and provides a mana sink post combat.
Neheb is busted but suffers from being a 5 drop who's relatively weak to spot removal. Much like Rakdos, Lord of Riots you can mitigate this weakness with things like Pulse Tracker and Purphoros, God of the Forge in order to avoid having to untap with him but nothing will enable you to beat well-timed spot removal if people actually have it. That being said in a world where people aren't packing much of it this is easily the strongest Red creature to slam on turn 5 because at that point any Earthquake, Flamebreak, Breath of Darigaaz, etc. is basically a game win. From there you can easily dump your entire hand including big X burn spells and/or MLD such as Wildfire/Destructive Force to all-but seal the game. One of Neheb's most compelling features is that he doesn't force you to warp your deck around him nor field "bad" cards that you wouldn't be inherently happy to field in the dark. As such even if he dies to removal your deck is still full of spells "that matter" which also mitigates his vulnerability to removal. In that sense you should treat him like a Mana Geyser with higher highs but lower lows and only look to field him in metas where he figures to survive for a couple of untap steps. Even if he doesn't, that's fine, you're not screwed or anything and when he does survive you realistically can't lose because that effect is heinously overpowered in a multiplayer setting. A simple curve of Purph into Neheb enables you to immediately cast a 6 drop on your second main and assuming that it's a Wildfire or Inferno Titan or whatever that's not an easy line to beat.
Okay, people I need you r clarification. I know this is off-topic, but let's talk about Earthquake, since Prid3 brought it up. I've been on playing Magic for a long time and I've been on these boards for awhile, and Earthquake is a card that people swear is good, but when I try to play it, it never feels good. Yes, I might kill stuff on the board, but I also damage myself making myself vulnerable. It's a card that, when I've played it in the past, never seems to win the game unless I'm already ahead. So how is it not strictly win more?
For what it's worth, i like the idea of a Big Red Control deck using Neheb and Mana Geyser as a way to pump out game winning cards like Prid3 suggested. I could especially see you dipping into black for cards like Breath of Malfegor, which would be massive mana with an active Neheb. The trick of course is balancing your mana colors if you go into Rakdos. Still, a Sire of Insanity after a Neheb seems back breaking.
Well, for one thing it's still good even when you're behind so that kills the whole "win more" attribute that you're trying to associate with it.
I like the card for many reasons. First of all it's a scalable mass removal spell with an aspect of reach which enables to scale directly A) with the number of players and B) with the stage of the game. Beyond that it also tends to create truncated games that end before each player is able to fully utilize their spells. This matters when you're playing a color like Red that lags behind its superior BUG counterpatrts. Moreover, it's also not hard removal and allows you to preserve your own board while dismantling opposing ones. Many BUG threats tend to be small and value orientated which means that you can often clear them away, maintain your "Polukranos, World Eater" style threats and bash the Control/Combo players to death before they manage to seize complete control of the game. It also punishes greedy fetch + shock manabases and limits the use of oppressive draw spells/engines such as Painful Truths. Again, most Red decks will struggle to be beat decks that're consistently able to draw + cast a ton of extra cards ehich is where global reach comes into play in a big way. Lastly, it's extremely difficult to play around large EQs as the game progresses and as you amass large sums of mana. Unless your deck is packing things like Blood Moon or Ruination there's very little reason to omit things like Cloudpost and/or Myriad Landscape and so even base-Red decks can amass large sums of mana over time. This is even if we ignore oppressive rituals such as Mana Geyser and/or engines such as Neheb. Either way the idea here is that EQ is still a spell that matters on turn 12 when you have access to ~20 mana while still being extremely powerful on turn 3-4.
Don't get me wrong, it's not the be-all-end-all and if people are jamming turn 1-2 Waste Not turn 2-3 Dark Deal then Earthquake isn't where you want to be but in the context of "fair" Magic where you're playing lands and spells for at least 5-6 turns I struggle to envision a world where cards like EQ are anything less that perfectly serviceable playables.
So I'm looking at Neheb, the Eternal.
Part of me has written this off as too cute to be useful, but the other part of me says "Wow! That's a lot of potential"
Being post-combat, we can use *anything* to hurt our opponents in order to gain substantial mana, starting with the upkeep phase, which is very flexible considering how easy red perms, and non-perms alike, can deal damage to multiple opponents quickly.
Purphoros, God of the Forge would love this guy, but is Neheb even necessary here anyway?
Outside Purph is where I'm looking FWIW, as that card is getting crazy expensive for a MP card.
Opinions?
Neheb is busted but suffers from being a 5 drop who's relatively weak to spot removal. Much like Rakdos, Lord of Riots you can mitigate this weakness with things like Pulse Tracker and Purphoros, God of the Forge in order to avoid having to untap with him but nothing will enable you to beat well-timed spot removal if people actually have it. That being said in a world where people aren't packing much of it this is easily the strongest Red creature to slam on turn 5 because at that point any Earthquake, Flamebreak, Breath of Darigaaz, etc. is basically a game win. From there you can easily dump your entire hand including big X burn spells and/or MLD such as Wildfire/Destructive Force to all-but seal the game. One of Neheb's most compelling features is that he doesn't force you to warp your deck around him nor field "bad" cards that you wouldn't be inherently happy to field in the dark. As such even if he dies to removal your deck is still full of spells "that matter" which also mitigates his vulnerability to removal. In that sense you should treat him like a Mana Geyser with higher highs but lower lows and only look to field him in metas where he figures to survive for a couple of untap steps. Even if he doesn't, that's fine, you're not screwed or anything and when he does survive you realistically can't lose because that effect is heinously overpowered in a multiplayer setting. A simple curve of Purph into Neheb enables you to immediately cast a 6 drop on your second main and assuming that it's a Wildfire or Inferno Titan or whatever that's not an easy line to beat.
See also: Aggravated Assault.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
For what it's worth, i like the idea of a Big Red Control deck using Neheb and Mana Geyser as a way to pump out game winning cards like Prid3 suggested. I could especially see you dipping into black for cards like Breath of Malfegor, which would be massive mana with an active Neheb. The trick of course is balancing your mana colors if you go into Rakdos. Still, a Sire of Insanity after a Neheb seems back breaking.
Well, for one thing it's still good even when you're behind so that kills the whole "win more" attribute that you're trying to associate with it.
I like the card for many reasons. First of all it's a scalable mass removal spell with an aspect of reach which enables to scale directly A) with the number of players and B) with the stage of the game. Beyond that it also tends to create truncated games that end before each player is able to fully utilize their spells. This matters when you're playing a color like Red that lags behind its superior BUG counterpatrts. Moreover, it's also not hard removal and allows you to preserve your own board while dismantling opposing ones. Many BUG threats tend to be small and value orientated which means that you can often clear them away, maintain your "Polukranos, World Eater" style threats and bash the Control/Combo players to death before they manage to seize complete control of the game. It also punishes greedy fetch + shock manabases and limits the use of oppressive draw spells/engines such as Painful Truths. Again, most Red decks will struggle to be beat decks that're consistently able to draw + cast a ton of extra cards ehich is where global reach comes into play in a big way. Lastly, it's extremely difficult to play around large EQs as the game progresses and as you amass large sums of mana. Unless your deck is packing things like Blood Moon or Ruination there's very little reason to omit things like Cloudpost and/or Myriad Landscape and so even base-Red decks can amass large sums of mana over time. This is even if we ignore oppressive rituals such as Mana Geyser and/or engines such as Neheb. Either way the idea here is that EQ is still a spell that matters on turn 12 when you have access to ~20 mana while still being extremely powerful on turn 3-4.
Don't get me wrong, it's not the be-all-end-all and if people are jamming turn 1-2 Waste Not turn 2-3 Dark Deal then Earthquake isn't where you want to be but in the context of "fair" Magic where you're playing lands and spells for at least 5-6 turns I struggle to envision a world where cards like EQ are anything less that perfectly serviceable playables.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold