I was thinking about building a multiplayer Marvel list last night. If I may ask, what has you sold on Maelstrom Wanderer? It's certainly powerful in EDH, but if you intend with sticking to something similar to the Temur Energy builds, the likelihood of flipping an Attune With Aether or a Servant of the Conduit makes the card seem really weak in comparison to an Emrakul. If I were you, I'd look through Pride's guides or some of the EDH threads to find cards that straight up win the game. In that vein, even something like Sire of Insanity pretty much shuts down the game.
I was thinking about building a multiplayer Marvel list last night. If I may ask, what has you sold on Maelstrom Wanderer? It's certainly powerful in EDH, but if you intend with sticking to something similar to the Temur Energy builds, the likelihood of flipping an Attune With Aether or a Servant of the Conduit makes the card seem really weak in comparison to an Emrakul. If I were you, I'd look through Pride's guides or some of the EDH threads to find cards that straight up win the game. In that vein, even something like Sire of Insanity pretty much shuts down the game.
Was honestly just wanting to see a game where I pull the lever, hit a Wanderer, Cascade into more Marvels and maybe some..other stuff, pull the lever again.. Bucket List, basically--seemed very funny to me.
Once I noticed he's also in Temur colors, i stopped laughing.. Could I create a ridiculous Energy Aggro deck that just alpha strikes from out of nowhere? Is there an ideal configuration to accomplish this goal?
I'm not sure you want to create an aggro deck with Marvel. To get Marvel to consistently work you need at minimum four Marvels and four targets you want to hit. Though eight may be better just to ensure you hit SOMETHING of value when you activate Marvel. Granted, even if you make Marvel a secondary plan in your otherwise aggro deck, you still want to include all four Maelstrom Wanderers to give you the highest likelihood of one appearing in the top six cards. Unfortunately, drawing multiple 8+ drops really messes with your aggro plan to zerg them down. It's by no means impossible, and of course I don't mean to put a damper on your fun, but if you want the deck to work consistently, you should either go Temur Energy or All in Marvel.
In the standard lists that I've looked at, it seems that Temur Marvel contain the following core cards:
Granted this is Standard and not a huge sample size. Of those cards, several, like Harnessed Lightning are not powerful enough to play in multiplayer, but as it was in standard, cheating out Eldrazi on turn four makes the drop in power worth it. I've already stated my issue with Maelstrom Wanderer, but even Ulamog or new Emrakul don't feel powerful enough to directly win a multiplayer game as they would in Standard or even Modern. In all fairness, I've never played either card, but I've played against Ulamog several times and while losing two permanents is tough to play against, in the end, it only hits two permanents and then gets promptly killed. This is why I'll return to my original case. You want to choose a target that all but ensures you win the game when you cast it to make playing weaker cards like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot worth it. Looking through various EDH threads, things like Blatant Thievery, Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Insurrection, Sire of Insanity, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, etc are likely candidates. I'm sure I'm missing a lot more, It's just a pity the Myojin don't get their divinty counter when you cast them using Marvel.
Totally hear you and I think this is probably correct. I will say, however, my L2 playmate runs a rather good Simic tempo Energy deck and it is pretty damn good in MP, despite lacking most of the huge scalable payoff cards everyone runs in EDH. (We play classic 60-card casual.)
I really can't be durdling around with a lot of the lower energy generators, agreed.. What about some of these then?
4 Aethertide Whale (Pull, Reload, Pull, Reload) 4 Lightning Runner (This guy seems potentially very good here, merely 'reloading' in a different way.) 4 Rogue Refiner (agree he's pretty middling but the cantrip is really nice.)
I also thought about maybe more 'impact' guys to help clear the way for an Alpha Strike. Things like Flametongue Kavu, Inferno Titan and such.
Then again, if I want to stay squarely within Energy territory there's always...
Given your concerns, which I agree aren't wholly insurmountable, are we getting any closer?
Would you mind sharing, or at least approximating your friend's tempo list? Ever since buying a box of Kaladesh and Aether Revolt, I got a lot of draft shaft that are otherwise collecting dust.
Aethertide Whale is interesting, and funny, and probably bad, but, and I realize that by saying this I am invalidating most of my points about Wanderer, when your smacking your opponents with big, flying whales, who cares if there are better options?
On a serious note, Saffron Olive made a budget standard deck for his series on mtggoldfish that used Whale as a win condition. Here is the link:
(Nevermind, can't post the link, so just Google "Marvelous Paradox.")
(Mods am I allowed to post that? If not, my apologies.)
While I can't speak for how effective Lightning Runner is, having haste is a real benefit. if your meta is anything like mine, instant speed spot removal is scarce and curving Marvel>Whale>Runner would be super fun. It really just depends on your meta though and getting the numbers right. I mean there are always going to be better Marvel "hits." Unfortunately, they're all super expensive cash wise, so all we can really do at this point is playtest, try to get numbers right, and pray that Iconic Masters gives us some sweet reprints.
For what it's worth, I really like MaelstromPonderer's idea of using Marvel as just a value engine to throw out big, dumb creatures that have the potential to swarm the board with tokens or feed those tokens to generate more energy, especially if they help to create more energy counters, like Dragon Broodmother. It also makes your Maelstrom Wanderer idea better, since you have a larger chance to cascade into something valuable. If you decide to go with this plan of course consider including allstar fatties, like Sylvan Primordial, but also consider Kozilek, the Great Distortion. He may be vulnerable to spot removal, but he refills your hand and has Menace, so the value makes him worth it I think.
Was talking about this idea w/my playgroup last night. Turns out (I had completely forgotten about this) one of our guys already worked on Marvel and he had a very sweet little suggestion for me.
You hit it with Marvel or Wanderer and you can clone a Aetherworks Marvel or a Aetheride Whale OR BOTH. That seems 100% ridiculous. (He too pointed out the Marvelous Paradox deck SaffronOlive recently put out.)
I agree tokens isn't a terrible way to cheese out some additional Energy. Honestly, I was planning to rely on Fetchlands for this. If there's enough room (seriously--where?) I will try to shoe-horn some token producers.
I am waiting on cards at this point. I will try to put together a list and get back in here next couple of days.
Sounds like fun. It's a 3-card combo that costs 8UU with pieces that don't do all that much on their own, but when it all comes together... yeah, I'd like to see that.
Well, we are talking about a deck whose central trick is producing three freespells in a row. Not saying it's all that likely, but it is possible? most games I expect to 'get lucky' by merely hitting my Wanderer off a Marvel and then hitting one Whale to swing in for 13 or whatever before getting killed the next turn. That is a pretty typical outcome. If that doesn't happen, or if I get a second (or OMG) third pull, I'm deliriously happy.
Please also try to remember the fact I haven't been playing with Marvel at all the last however many months it's been in Standard. I'm not looking to dream crush/Ulamog on T4. Not to say I don't have the cards to do that; I absolutely do. That just sounds boring to me. I have better decks than that. This deck is purely for stupid Timmy/Johnny fun. If I wanted Spike version, absolutely, I'd build the Standard thing.
My meta isn't usually super fast. I dunno; we'll see how it goes. I will be spending several turns ramping/not interacting much--I do get that. I even considered something like Glacial Chasm to help stall/build energy. Seems way too cute and probably just slow me down that much more.
I'm waiting on a pile of cards for this thing. I'll come back when I have something more like a list to work with. Appreciate everyone's help!
This seems like it should be pretty fun. I added a few things to help produce even more absurd chains. Retraced Image is a criminally-underplayed Magic card (imho) so of course I bought a playset of Mitotic Manipulation a while back. And of course Panharmonicon is still busted as ever. There's potentially so much card-drawing going on here, I think I should have a realistic chance of hitting it, even at only 1x.
Dramatic Reversals are, yep, a nod to good ol' Saffron Olive. If it works, I'll try it. (But I don't actually own any of those, so this is my stand-in.) We'll see how it goes. I'm certainly not above buying those, but it may have to wait a bit.
I always struggle with my manabases so any suggestions there would definitely be appreciated. (I only have Mountains in here to be able to hard cast Wanderers in an emergency.) And yes, I certainly need to pick up some Aether Hubs.
The list seems like it's missing impactful cards to hit with cascade/marvel. Right now I'm looking at it and trying to envision how it would win. Say that things go well and you "go off" with multiple Aetherworks Marvels in play that let you dig through your entire library and put every creature in it into play. But then what? That's just four whales, a single wanderer and some 3/2s. Only the whales have evasion. Is that enough to kill an entire multiplayer table through any blockers and removal they might have on hand? Next turn someone casts a Wrath of God; where does that leave you?
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So. Do I just mash together all the good Temur energy producers and hope for the best or did anyone here beat me to this idea?
Would appreciate any good ideas. Thanks in advance.
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Was honestly just wanting to see a game where I pull the lever, hit a Wanderer, Cascade into more Marvels and maybe some..other stuff, pull the lever again.. Bucket List, basically--seemed very funny to me.
Once I noticed he's also in Temur colors, i stopped laughing.. Could I create a ridiculous Energy Aggro deck that just alpha strikes from out of nowhere? Is there an ideal configuration to accomplish this goal?
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In the standard lists that I've looked at, it seems that Temur Marvel contain the following core cards:
Granted this is Standard and not a huge sample size. Of those cards, several, like Harnessed Lightning are not powerful enough to play in multiplayer, but as it was in standard, cheating out Eldrazi on turn four makes the drop in power worth it. I've already stated my issue with Maelstrom Wanderer, but even Ulamog or new Emrakul don't feel powerful enough to directly win a multiplayer game as they would in Standard or even Modern. In all fairness, I've never played either card, but I've played against Ulamog several times and while losing two permanents is tough to play against, in the end, it only hits two permanents and then gets promptly killed. This is why I'll return to my original case. You want to choose a target that all but ensures you win the game when you cast it to make playing weaker cards like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot worth it. Looking through various EDH threads, things like Blatant Thievery, Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Insurrection, Sire of Insanity, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, etc are likely candidates. I'm sure I'm missing a lot more, It's just a pity the Myojin don't get their divinty counter when you cast them using Marvel.
I really can't be durdling around with a lot of the lower energy generators, agreed.. What about some of these then?
4 Lightning Runner (This guy seems potentially very good here, merely 'reloading' in a different way.)
4 Rogue Refiner (agree he's pretty middling but the cantrip is really nice.)
I also thought about maybe more 'impact' guys to help clear the way for an Alpha Strike. Things like Flametongue Kavu, Inferno Titan and such.
Then again, if I want to stay squarely within Energy territory there's always...
Given your concerns, which I agree aren't wholly insurmountable, are we getting any closer?
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Aethertide Whale is interesting, and funny, and probably bad, but, and I realize that by saying this I am invalidating most of my points about Wanderer, when your smacking your opponents with big, flying whales, who cares if there are better options?
On a serious note, Saffron Olive made a budget standard deck for his series on mtggoldfish that used Whale as a win condition. Here is the link:
(Nevermind, can't post the link, so just Google "Marvelous Paradox.")
(Mods am I allowed to post that? If not, my apologies.)
While I can't speak for how effective Lightning Runner is, having haste is a real benefit. if your meta is anything like mine, instant speed spot removal is scarce and curving Marvel>Whale>Runner would be super fun. It really just depends on your meta though and getting the numbers right. I mean there are always going to be better Marvel "hits." Unfortunately, they're all super expensive cash wise, so all we can really do at this point is playtest, try to get numbers right, and pray that Iconic Masters gives us some sweet reprints.
Dragon Broodmother
Mycoloth
Skullclamp (I mean if we're already playing cards banned in Standard.)
If this is a route you'd prefer to go, maybe we make this a more midrange deck that relies on Aetherworks for value instead of an instant win.
If that's the case, Greater Gargadon may serve a role as a sac outlet and passable plan B.
You hit it with Marvel or Wanderer and you can clone a Aetherworks Marvel or a Aetheride Whale OR BOTH. That seems 100% ridiculous. (He too pointed out the Marvelous Paradox deck SaffronOlive recently put out.)
I agree tokens isn't a terrible way to cheese out some additional Energy. Honestly, I was planning to rely on Fetchlands for this. If there's enough room (seriously--where?) I will try to shoe-horn some token producers.
I am waiting on cards at this point. I will try to put together a list and get back in here next couple of days.
I picked up a few things.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
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Well, we are talking about a deck whose central trick is producing three free spells in a row. Not saying it's all that likely, but it is possible? most games I expect to 'get lucky' by merely hitting my Wanderer off a Marvel and then hitting one Whale to swing in for 13 or whatever before getting killed the next turn. That is a pretty typical outcome. If that doesn't happen, or if I get a second (or OMG) third pull, I'm deliriously happy.
Please also try to remember the fact I haven't been playing with Marvel at all the last however many months it's been in Standard. I'm not looking to dream crush/Ulamog on T4. Not to say I don't have the cards to do that; I absolutely do. That just sounds boring to me. I have better decks than that. This deck is purely for stupid Timmy/Johnny fun. If I wanted Spike version, absolutely, I'd build the Standard thing.
Love his ideas. I still have the Reckless Panharmonicon running, it does win some games in truly hilarious fashion.
OK, how about some Lotus Petal, Gemstone Mine or even Ramos bits too? If I was gonna try a token producer, I'd probably think about something like Awakening Zone
My meta isn't usually super fast. I dunno; we'll see how it goes. I will be spending several turns ramping/not interacting much--I do get that. I even considered something like Glacial Chasm to help stall/build energy. Seems way too cute and probably just slow me down that much more.
I'm waiting on a pile of cards for this thing. I'll come back when I have something more like a list to work with. Appreciate everyone's help!
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
4 Peema Aether-Seer
4 Aethertide Whale
4 Maelstrom Wanderer
4 Attune with Aether
3 Mitotic Manipulation
2 Saheeli's Artistry
4 Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
1 Panharmonicon
4 Aetherworks Marvel
2 Gemstone Mine
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
6 Island
6 Forest
2 Mountain
This seems like it should be pretty fun. I added a few things to help produce even more absurd chains. Retraced Image is a criminally-underplayed Magic card (imho) so of course I bought a playset of Mitotic Manipulation a while back. And of course Panharmonicon is still busted as ever. There's potentially so much card-drawing going on here, I think I should have a realistic chance of hitting it, even at only 1x.
Dramatic Reversals are, yep, a nod to good ol' Saffron Olive. If it works, I'll try it. (But I don't actually own any of those, so this is my stand-in.) We'll see how it goes. I'm certainly not above buying those, but it may have to wait a bit.
I always struggle with my manabases so any suggestions there would definitely be appreciated. (I only have Mountains in here to be able to hard cast Wanderers in an emergency.) And yes, I certainly need to pick up some Aether Hubs.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!