So with the spoiling of Solemnity, dark depths gets a new color to play with Deck is just a mishmash I threw together in a few minutes but the direction of copying indestructible 20/20's seems fun Looking for some suggestions. Thanks guys.
Do you really need more than one indestructible 20/20 token? Mirror Gallery does absolutely nothing unless things are already going so well you can't possibly lose. Why not add more redundancy to bolster the combo, like Vampire Hexmage, Thespian's Stage, Expedition Map, etc.?
You can't because the 20/20 token is legendary... So you can't have multiples
If only there was an artifact that got around that. I would think OP would be running the full 4 of them
Although I do agree with thomeyis that this seems like overkill and "win-more" Those slots seem better suited to protecting your token or setting up your combo. I agree that Thespian's Stage could make an appearance.
Do you really need more than one indestructible 20/20 token? Mirror Gallery does absolutely nothing unless things are already going so well you can't possibly lose. Why not add more redundancy to bolster the combo, like Vampire Hexmage, Thespian's Stage, Expedition Map, etc.?
We play with the old legendary rule so the Thespian's Stage trick doesn't work. Trust me it would be in there if I didn't play with dusty originals...I have 8 ways to get it into play, should get one at some point.
The playgroup can deal with one 20/20 no problem, so i'm adding some redundancy...Once I get 1 out, if I have Mirror Gallery on the pitch, I can potentially put out 3 or 4 tokens before my turn and swing and kill everyone in one foul swoop.
Given you want to run white, rolling with green for tutor to find Dark Depths & Thespian's Stage is where I would focus.
4 Crop Rotation, 2 Expedition Map & 4 Sylvan Scrying is where I would start, as Stage & DD are my first priority.
Another option is Into the North.
It's easy to put the combo together.
The reason why I suggest this, is that it means you don't need tutor for both parts of your combo, only one type of tutor. With such a large amount of tutor in there looking for lands you could afford to run multiple Glacial Chasms and sac them regularly.
Some Eternal Witness &/or Ramunap Excavator might be an option, if you feel like re-using Glacial Chasm's after your attack phase.
The typical DD deck runs Vampire Hexmage but I'd drop it here given the BB cost can be hard to achieve.
White covers the same job and demands much less cash for your manabase.
Given Lage likes to actually connect, I'd consider some Wrath of God-type sweeper to clear the way for your 1-hit-wonder.
I'm not sure we're on the same page here.
Unlike Vesuva, Stage doesn't get counters when you copy DD, that's why many people run it.
When you copy DD with stage you may instantly sac Stage for a Lage token, getting around the legend rule for DD, and keeping your DD for the next stage.
I'm not sure we're on the same page here.
Unlike Vesuva, Stage doesn't get counters when you copy DD, that's why many people run it.
When you copy DD with stage you may instantly sac Stage for a Lage token, getting around the legend rule for DD, and keeping your DD for the next stage.
It would you appear as though you are not on the same page
OP said they play with the old Legend Rule (meaning not the current one). There are two "old" Legend Rules and neither allows the Thespian's Stage trick to work.
If one were to try this interaction with the original Legend Rule, Thespian's Stage/Depths would be put into the graveyard as a State Based Action since the rule at the time stated the newest Legend was the one that had to be put into the graveyard. Since this would happen before the State Trigger resolved, it wouldn't be around to sacrifice to get Marit Lage.
If one were to try this with the previous Legend Rule, both would be put into the graveyard as a State Based Action. This would be before the State Trigger from Stage/Depths even went onto the stack (as with the rule above) and thus, when it resolved, there would be nothing to sacrifice to the trigger to get a Marit Lage token.
I personally feel it is confusing to use an old Legend rule, but OP's playgroup has decided to use it which means Stage doesn't work right.
Also, you don't seem to understand how the Stage Depths combo works under the current rules. Both end up going to the graveyard when Stage copies a Dark Depths. The breakdown:
1) Dark Depths and Stage are on the battlefield.
2) Stage ability is activated targeting Depths
3) Ability resolves and Stage becomes a Depths.
4) Stage/Depths Copy's State trigger triggers and State Based Actions are checked. The trigger is not on the stack yet and the game sees two Legendary permanents with the same name under one player's control.
5) That player chooses one to put into the graveyard (it must be the original Dark Depths for this to work right)
6) Stage/Depths's trigger goes onto the stack.
7) Trigger resolves and Stage is sacrificed. Marit Lage is on the Battlefield and neither Dark Depths nor Thespian's Stage is on the battlefield.
If the player chooses to put the Stage/Depths copy in the graveyard in step 5 above, then when the trigger resolves you will be unable to sacrifice it. Since you are unable to sacrifice it, no Marit Lage token is created. This is because the State trigger has an "if you do" clause which means nothing happens if you don't sacrifice Stage/Depths during the resolution of the trigger.
Thanks WizardMN that was a much better explanation than I could have given. I would much rather play with the new multiplayer rules and it is that way at my house but when I'm at someone else's it's their call These guys are some original's that cracked packs back when most of us were still a twinkle in dad's eye.
Boros_Blendo, thanks but with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice I gain 20 life per Marit Lage I copy. So taking up a slot wouldn't be worth it too me.
Heres where the deck is sitting now. I haven't really played that much with the land base. Anything else anyone can think of? Maybe a good board wipe...
Boros_Blendo, thanks but with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice I gain 20 life per Marit Lage I copy. So taking up a slot wouldn't be worth it too me.
No worries, it looks like a fun deck. It got me pumped to put one back together for smaller team games. It's mono-black and uses discard effects to remove any removal that can take Marit Lage out, but uses Grim Discovery to get the Hexmage and DD back. It's just such a fun card and the token is just so Lovecraftian. Oooo, shiny....Good luck!
Ha ha, well you learn something new every day. FWIW, the way I've described it is how I've seen it played against me at legacy nights, which was all deemed legal by judges. I just assumed they had it right - so it looks like they need to read this too.
To be clear, no they wouldn't. I don't want to derail this thread too much, but the way I outlined it *is* with the new Legendary Rule. Slave had a misunderstanding about whether or not the original Dark Depths would go away. It sounds like their playgroup was playing it where the Stage/Depths copy is the one people were putting into their graveyard and then still getting Marit Lage. This is incorrect. In order to get Marit Lage, both the original and Stage/Depths copy will end up in the graveyard; the original due to the Legendary Rule and the copy from Sacrificing it to the State trigger.
1x Elixir of Immortality
4x Mirror Gallery
4x Selesnya Signet
1x Sol Ring
Creature (8)
4x Rhys the Redeemed
4x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
4x Dark Depths
10x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
7x Plains
Instant (12)
4x Crop Rotation
4x Second Harvest
4x Sundering Growth
2x Aura Shards
4x Solemnity
And/or Trostani, Selesnya's Voice?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
And because you can...
Or?
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Although I do agree with thomeyis that this seems like overkill and "win-more" Those slots seem better suited to protecting your token or setting up your combo. I agree that Thespian's Stage could make an appearance.
We play with the old legendary rule so the Thespian's Stage trick doesn't work. Trust me it would be in there if I didn't play with dusty originals...I have 8 ways to get it into play, should get one at some point.
The playgroup can deal with one 20/20 no problem, so i'm adding some redundancy...Once I get 1 out, if I have Mirror Gallery on the pitch, I can potentially put out 3 or 4 tokens before my turn and swing and kill everyone in one foul swoop.
I'm going to add some Selvala, Explorer Returned for card draw lifegain and mana, I'm considering throwing a crucible of worlds in and some enlightened tutors
Im considering taking out Rhys the Redeemed, its expensive and I don't own them. May replace with 2 more Selvala, Explorer Returned just for the card draw or Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage not sure yet.
Also threw a Land Tax / Scroll Rack single in for something to do with the enlightened tutor
So something like:
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Elixir of Immortality
3x Mirror Gallery
1x Scroll Rack
4x Selesnya Signet
1x Sol Ring
4x Crop Rotation
4x Enlightened Tutor
3x Second Harvest
4x Sundering Growth
Creature (6)
3x Selvala, Explorer Returned
3x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
4x Dark Depths
10x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
7x Plains
Enchantment (6)
1x Aura Shards
1x Land Tax
4x Solemnity
4 Crop Rotation, 2 Expedition Map & 4 Sylvan Scrying is where I would start, as Stage & DD are my first priority.
Another option is Into the North.
It's easy to put the combo together.
The reason why I suggest this, is that it means you don't need tutor for both parts of your combo, only one type of tutor. With such a large amount of tutor in there looking for lands you could afford to run multiple Glacial Chasms and sac them regularly.
Some Eternal Witness &/or Ramunap Excavator might be an option, if you feel like re-using Glacial Chasm's after your attack phase.
The typical DD deck runs Vampire Hexmage but I'd drop it here given the BB cost can be hard to achieve.
White covers the same job and demands much less cash for your manabase.
Given Lage likes to actually connect, I'd consider some Wrath of God-type sweeper to clear the way for your 1-hit-wonder.
That is a fantastic idea. Funny too because I was talking with a buddy about it for his deck yesterday and it didn't dawn on me. No cumulative upkeep
I'm not sure we're on the same page here.
Unlike Vesuva, Stage doesn't get counters when you copy DD, that's why many people run it.
When you copy DD with stage you may instantly sac Stage for a Lage token, getting around the legend rule for DD, and keeping your DD for the next stage.
OP said they play with the old Legend Rule (meaning not the current one). There are two "old" Legend Rules and neither allows the Thespian's Stage trick to work.
If one were to try this interaction with the original Legend Rule, Thespian's Stage/Depths would be put into the graveyard as a State Based Action since the rule at the time stated the newest Legend was the one that had to be put into the graveyard. Since this would happen before the State Trigger resolved, it wouldn't be around to sacrifice to get Marit Lage.
If one were to try this with the previous Legend Rule, both would be put into the graveyard as a State Based Action. This would be before the State Trigger from Stage/Depths even went onto the stack (as with the rule above) and thus, when it resolved, there would be nothing to sacrifice to the trigger to get a Marit Lage token.
I personally feel it is confusing to use an old Legend rule, but OP's playgroup has decided to use it which means Stage doesn't work right.
Also, you don't seem to understand how the Stage Depths combo works under the current rules. Both end up going to the graveyard when Stage copies a Dark Depths. The breakdown:
2) Stage ability is activated targeting Depths
3) Ability resolves and Stage becomes a Depths.
4) Stage/Depths Copy's State trigger triggers and State Based Actions are checked. The trigger is not on the stack yet and the game sees two Legendary permanents with the same name under one player's control.
5) That player chooses one to put into the graveyard (it must be the original Dark Depths for this to work right)
6) Stage/Depths's trigger goes onto the stack.
7) Trigger resolves and Stage is sacrificed. Marit Lage is on the Battlefield and neither Dark Depths nor Thespian's Stage is on the battlefield.
If the player chooses to put the Stage/Depths copy in the graveyard in step 5 above, then when the trigger resolves you will be unable to sacrifice it. Since you are unable to sacrifice it, no Marit Lage token is created. This is because the State trigger has an "if you do" clause which means nothing happens if you don't sacrifice Stage/Depths during the resolution of the trigger.
Boros_Blendo, thanks but with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice I gain 20 life per Marit Lage I copy. So taking up a slot wouldn't be worth it too me.
Heres where the deck is sitting now. I haven't really played that much with the land base. Anything else anyone can think of? Maybe a good board wipe...
1x Crucible of Worlds
3x Mirror Gallery
1x Scroll Rack
4x Selesnya Signet
1x Sol Ring
Instant (15)
4x Crop Rotation
4x Enlightened Tutor
3x Second Harvest
4x Sundering Growth
4x Dark Depths
9x Forest
9x Plains
Enchantment (9)
2x Elephant Grass
1x Land Tax
4x Solemnity
2x Sterling Grove
3x Selvala, Explorer Returned
3x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice