Alright, many years ago, I saw a card Chronozoa. I desperately want to build a deck around it. I never had any success. I've probably been running iterations of this deck for 4-5 years. I rarely play it these days because it's mostly hopeless. I think I won the first game when my play group didn't know what was going on. Now, opponents see me coming a mile away. They usually gang up on me when there's even the smallest hint that I'm about to combo off.
I modified it today and I just played two rounds tonight, 3 way multiplayer. It didn't go as bad as it has gone in the past. Well the first round I couldn't draw a Chronozoa to save my life so i failed miserably. The second one, I had pieces in place but they ganged up, bolted and countered everything that would've given me a chance of winning. Full disclosure, if they gave me another turn, I would've started quadrupling all my Chronozoa each turn.
So here's the deck. If anyone has any ideas to improve it, I would be very grateful
Today, I just added Epochrasite and Lord of the Unreal. I also added Chromantic Escape but never drew it. The new cards helped a lot I feel. They held opponents at bay Nobody wants to trade a creature for one that'll come back in a turn or two.
I know Ancestral Vision is surprising in this deck but before they were so pricey, I bought 2 playsets of them at 4-5$ each. I have a playset in a UW control deck and the other is in this deck.
Sensei's Divining Top is also strange in the deck. Again, I have 3-4 of them, I just spread them across my many decks. Also, I know it's banned in a lot of formats but our playgroup doesn't care so much. As long as we don't ruin the game for others.
So that's how it is right now, any help appreciated!
So you're looking for ways to make the combo more resilient and not for ways to prolong the game.
Upgrading your defense and life is not what you seek. Or is it?
Upping card draw and playing counter manipulation should help. (though you already run a decent amount of draw)
Maybe upping mana.
I'm unsure what would help more in this deck. I think I'm mostly looking for ways to protect my combo. I have Phantasmal Images in another deck. I could move 'em here, it would work well with lord of the unreal of course.
I saw clockspinning earlier today. It does sound good in this deck. I used to have Jhoira's Timebug in this deck but they felt underpowered. Maybe clockspinnin, with the buyback and instant speed, would be better to play. It could help me save the Chronozoa by splitting them.
I agree about Search for Tomorrow it feels low-reward whenever I cast it. Maybe I don't need the ramp at all and should just put in more spells to protect my dudes. Would you just switch them for Clockspinning
I'm not super certain about parallel lives too. It feels like a win-more card. Once I'm splitting my Chronozoa, I'm not sure I need to double the tokens that much
Chronozoa looks like it is near impossible to break. The way it comes into play from anywhere with the counters prevents all kinds of shenanigans.
Removing counters is all you can do, and the options for those get considerably worse after the first one beyond Paradox Haze that you already have.
I don't think a 4-Mana "if nothing interacts I have 24 Power on turn 14" is really strong. If you compare it to Sprout Swarm that can put more power in play across more bodies and is also way more resilient it seems rather weak.
Last game I played with it, I managed to get 2 Paradox Haze and a Parallel Lives in play. Then I dropped a Lord of the Unreal plus a Chronozoa, same turn. I thought I was maybe about to pull it off. Next turn I would've had 4 of them. Of course, what happened is I immediately got all my board bolted and someone blew up my Parallel Lives. Game was pretty much over at that point for me.
I agree, it's pretty slow and it's super obvious but I'm still trying to make it work. Not looking to win any tournaments here.
The best use of Chronozoa I've ever seen is in my friend's Volrath's Shapeshifter deck. He runs it in U/B and uses effects like Tortured Existence to manipulate his graveyard order. Since the Shapeshifter retains its abilities when it changes into something, just about every time someone tries to kill the Shapeshifter it mutates into a Chronozoa, which dies with no time counters on it and turns into two token copies of Chronozoa but with the Volrath's Shapeshifter ability.
(they then do even more annoying things on his turn, like turn into Nacatl War-Prides, attack whoever has the most creatures, then before the declare blockers phase turn into Extractor Demons, kill that player, and mill out any remaining players... but that's not really relevant to the Chronozoa discussion.)
That's what I was thinking of. cards like Shapesharer will benefit from the Lord of Unreal while being able to copy Chronozoa without the tokens. Means you can't sacrifice him, but just send him to his death in battle or find a sac outlet. Renegade Doppelganger would let you "late cast" Chronozoa for a surprise attack.
Sac outlets are always good to get rid of the pesky Chrono if you copied it. Not sure which might be good for your play style.
As others have mentioned, this would be a tricky build.
The best use of Chronozoa I've ever seen is in my friend's Volrath's Shapeshifter deck. He runs it in U/B and uses effects like Tortured Existence to manipulate his graveyard order. Since the Shapeshifter retains its abilities when it changes into something, just about every time someone tries to kill the Shapeshifter it mutates into a Chronozoa, which dies with no time counters on it and turns into two token copies of Chronozoa but with the Volrath's Shapeshifter ability.
(they then do even more annoying things on his turn, like turn into Nacatl War-Prides, attack whoever has the most creatures, then before the declare blockers phase turn into Extractor Demons, kill that player, and mill out any remaining players... but that's not really relevant to the Chronozoa discussion.)
Damn, that is so convoluted! It's original to say the least. I'll have a look at those cards in the morning, see if I can integrate this somehow. How the hell did he ever come up with that combo...
That's what I was thinking of. cards like Shapesharer will benefit from the Lord of Unreal while being able to copy Chronozoa without the tokens. Means you can't sacrifice him, but just send him to his death in battle or find a sac outlet. Renegade Doppelganger would let you "late cast" Chronozoa for a surprise attack.
Sac outlets are always good to get rid of the pesky Chrono if you copied it. Not sure which might be good for your play style.
As others have mentioned, this would be a tricky build.
Ok I had to do a search on this. If one of my creature, already in play, copies a Chronozoa, then it doesn't have counters and immediately splits? I did not expect that but it makes sense when you read the cards carefully. It's not coming into play so it doesn't have the counters. That sounds like a solid plan, I think Volrath's Shapeshifter is my favorite, if only because Chronozoa always ends up in the graveyard
Vesuvan Shapeshifter does the same trick as the sharer and doesn't even use the stack when morphing.
That comes in handy when your zoa is killed with split second. (iirc)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Ok I think I'll try to make the doppelganger trick work. I'll have to find the rule because my playgroup will never believe that that's the way it actually works next time we play! The only thing I don't like too much, is that my doppelgangers have to die to split into Chronozoa tokens.
Right now, my favorites are the Renegade Doppelganger and Volrath's Shapeshifter. The first one I can drop early and just split it as soon as I put a Chronozoa in play. The second one will allow me to reuse a chronozoa that will inevitable get bolted.
Shouldn't you run a sacrifice outlet?
So you can kill your copies and originals when it suits you.
Maybe sacrifice for life, mana or cards?
(or Camarids? Homarid Spawning Bed...)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Out of curiosity, is it Chronozoa specifically that you're interested in or would you enjoy exponential token growth in general? When Amonkhet was spoiled I had the idea to build a deck around Reef Worm and Anointed Procession. I'm sure other folks have had similar ideas in the past with Doubling Season or Parallel Lives, but I thought it would be pretty interesting to generate (2^X)^3 Krakens from of a single Reef Worm, where X is the number of effects like Anointed Procession that you have in play.
That strategy seems like it would be a little easier to abuse than one with Chronozoa because you don't have to jump through hoops with the time counters; a free sac outlet like Ashnod's Altar would let you combo off right away.
Its really the Chronozoa. I like the idea of a splitting creature like that.
I already have a really strong token deck that doubles through Parallel Lives. Token decks are usually pretty easy to build and often unoriginal. If this chronozoa deck ends up working, it'll be a more original addition to my deck collection.
Shouldn't you run a sacrifice outlet?
So you can kill your copies and originals when it suits you.
Maybe sacrifice for life, mana or cards?
(or Camarids? Homarid Spawning Bed...)
Is the sac outlet for Volrath's Shapeshifter or something else I am missing?
If you have a copy in play (shapeshifter / doppelgänger / whatever) without counters you want to be able to sacrifice it at any moment.
So you understood right.
Goes for original Zoa's too if you decide to run Clockspinning or other counter manipulation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Ok i get it, you have to actually remove a counter for it to split... i'm much less convinved of the doppelganger mecanism now. I think i'll try hex parasite first.
Copy creatures that are already in play when they become the Zoa don't have counters.
Like when you play a Vesuvan Shapeshifter face down and then morph it to copy the Zoa it's immediately "online".
(The same with Volrath's. It comes into play without counters and then starts looking at the top of your graveyard. If there's a Zoa on top it's ready to go.)
In short, it doesn't matter how it becomes counterless. If it has no counters when it dies it will split. (this is unrelated to the Vanishing ability)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In magic there's Harry Dresden, Fizban, Sethra Lavode, Dorotea Senjak and me...
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I think you need to go BUG with this, since black is the king of removing counters from permanents with Hex Parasite, Aether Snap and Vampire Hexmage though I doubt the latter will fit in your deck. If you go colorless there's also Power Conduit and Jhoira's Timebug but they are restricted to one counter per activation so I don't think they are worth it. Also, with additional upkeeps, Growing Ranks becomes really good. I'm not sure I would splash white in a deck only for Chronomantic Escape, if you add black you could drop white. If you need more defense, you could add Wall of Roots. It would double as ramp and as an added bonus you can just remove the -0/-1 counters when you have mana left over. Hornet Nest can also be good as defense, since Growing Ranks can also keep producing hornets if needed. My take:
I feel like I probably need an easy way to sac my Chronozoa once I've removed the counters from it. I'll see if I can find something, should be easy in black.
I'll move my Ancestral Vision to a more interesting deck. This deck is not a worthy place for them.
I modified it today and I just played two rounds tonight, 3 way multiplayer. It didn't go as bad as it has gone in the past. Well the first round I couldn't draw a Chronozoa to save my life so i failed miserably. The second one, I had pieces in place but they ganged up, bolted and countered everything that would've given me a chance of winning. Full disclosure, if they gave me another turn, I would've started quadrupling all my Chronozoa each turn.
So here's the deck. If anyone has any ideas to improve it, I would be very grateful
4x Paradox Haze
2x Concordant Crossroads
2x Parallel Lives
Instant
2x Simic Charm
Sorcery
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Search for Tomorrow
2x Chronomantic Escape
4x Epochrasite
4x Chronozoa
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Lord of the Unreal
2x Overbeing of Myth
Artifacts
1x Sensei's Divining Top
7x Island
5x Forest
2x Plains
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Seachrome Coast
Today, I just added Epochrasite and Lord of the Unreal. I also added Chromantic Escape but never drew it. The new cards helped a lot I feel. They held opponents at bay Nobody wants to trade a creature for one that'll come back in a turn or two.
I know Ancestral Vision is surprising in this deck but before they were so pricey, I bought 2 playsets of them at 4-5$ each. I have a playset in a UW control deck and the other is in this deck.
Sensei's Divining Top is also strange in the deck. Again, I have 3-4 of them, I just spread them across my many decks. Also, I know it's banned in a lot of formats but our playgroup doesn't care so much. As long as we don't ruin the game for others.
So that's how it is right now, any help appreciated!
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Upgrading your defense and life is not what you seek. Or is it?
Upping card draw and playing counter manipulation should help. (though you already run a decent amount of draw)
Maybe upping mana.
(I would run Clockspinning plus Djinn Illuminatus but my meta is friendly.)
I wonder if you could swap out Search for Tomorrow for something that hits harder. It's on theme but seems weak.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I saw clockspinning earlier today. It does sound good in this deck. I used to have Jhoira's Timebug in this deck but they felt underpowered. Maybe clockspinnin, with the buyback and instant speed, would be better to play. It could help me save the Chronozoa by splitting them.
I agree about Search for Tomorrow it feels low-reward whenever I cast it. Maybe I don't need the ramp at all and should just put in more spells to protect my dudes. Would you just switch them for Clockspinning
I'm not super certain about parallel lives too. It feels like a win-more card. Once I'm splitting my Chronozoa, I'm not sure I need to double the tokens that much
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Removing counters is all you can do, and the options for those get considerably worse after the first one beyond Paradox Haze that you already have.
I don't think a 4-Mana "if nothing interacts I have 24 Power on turn 14" is really strong. If you compare it to Sprout Swarm that can put more power in play across more bodies and is also way more resilient it seems rather weak.
I agree, it's pretty slow and it's super obvious but I'm still trying to make it work. Not looking to win any tournaments here.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
(they then do even more annoying things on his turn, like turn into Nacatl War-Prides, attack whoever has the most creatures, then before the declare blockers phase turn into Extractor Demons, kill that player, and mill out any remaining players... but that's not really relevant to the Chronozoa discussion.)
Renegade Doppelganger would let you "late cast" Chronozoa for a surprise attack.
Sac outlets are always good to get rid of the pesky Chrono if you copied it. Not sure which might be good for your play style.
As others have mentioned, this would be a tricky build.
Damn, that is so convoluted! It's original to say the least. I'll have a look at those cards in the morning, see if I can integrate this somehow. How the hell did he ever come up with that combo...
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Yeah i was thinking about this, it sounds like Chronomantic Escape is a solid defense... I should at least have another one
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Ok I had to do a search on this. If one of my creature, already in play, copies a Chronozoa, then it doesn't have counters and immediately splits? I did not expect that but it makes sense when you read the cards carefully. It's not coming into play so it doesn't have the counters. That sounds like a solid plan, I think Volrath's Shapeshifter is my favorite, if only because Chronozoa always ends up in the graveyard
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
That comes in handy when your zoa is killed with split second. (iirc)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
Right now, my favorites are the Renegade Doppelganger and Volrath's Shapeshifter. The first one I can drop early and just split it as soon as I put a Chronozoa in play. The second one will allow me to reuse a chronozoa that will inevitable get bolted.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
4x Paradox Haze
2x Concordant Crossroads
2x Parallel Lives
Instant
2x Simic Charm
Sorcery
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Chronomantic Escape
4x Chronozoa
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Lord of the Unreal
4x Renegade Doppelganger
4x Volrath's Shapeshifter
7x Island
5x Forest
2x Plains
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Seachrome Coast
I removed Sensei's Divining Top. I can find a better use for it in the EDH deck I'm working one probably. The Search for Tomorrow were underperforming. I also removed the Overbeing of Myth, they were just there for the draw.
I removed Epochrasite in favor of doppelgangers. I'd like to figure out a way to keep em since they were pretty efficient last game.
I'm unsure the Lord of the Unreal have their place in there. I think I may have cut too much draw and ramp too.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
So you can kill your copies and originals when it suits you.
Maybe sacrifice for life, mana or cards?
(or Camarids? Homarid Spawning Bed...)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
That strategy seems like it would be a little easier to abuse than one with Chronozoa because you don't have to jump through hoops with the time counters; a free sac outlet like Ashnod's Altar would let you combo off right away.
I already have a really strong token deck that doubles through Parallel Lives. Token decks are usually pretty easy to build and often unoriginal. If this chronozoa deck ends up working, it'll be a more original addition to my deck collection.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Is the sac outlet for Volrath's Shapeshifter or something else I am missing?
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
So you understood right.
Goes for original Zoa's too if you decide to run Clockspinning or other counter manipulation.
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
I'll update once I've tried.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)
Like when you play a Vesuvan Shapeshifter face down and then morph it to copy the Zoa it's immediately "online".
(The same with Volrath's. It comes into play without counters and then starts looking at the top of your graveyard. If there's a Zoa on top it's ready to go.)
In short, it doesn't matter how it becomes counterless. If it has no counters when it dies it will split. (this is unrelated to the Vanishing ability)
My meta: 3 or 4 player free for all, anything goes but boring games or broken decks cause a vote to end that game.
4 Chronozoa
3 Lord of the Unreal
4 Hex Parasite
4 Wall of Roots
4 Hornet Nest
4 Paradox Haze
4 Growing Ranks
2 Parallel Lives
Spells (9):
2 Aether Snap
2 Regrowth
4 Mana Leak
1 Rite of Replication
22 Lands
Hope this helps
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I'll grab a couple of Hex Parasite, Growing Ranks, possibly some Vampire Hexmage. I hadn't thought of double upkeep with Growing Ranks, sounds solid.
Hornet Nest seems very good in this deck. A good deterrent. I'll look for a way to keep him on the board a while longer. 0/2 dies fast.
Removing one Lord of the Unreal makes sense. It's dead without a Chronozoa.
I feel like I probably need an easy way to sac my Chronozoa once I've removed the counters from it. I'll see if I can find something, should be easy in black.
I'll move my Ancestral Vision to a more interesting deck. This deck is not a worthy place for them.
WUGFlicker Control (WIP)