This is one of my all-time favorites archetypes given how unique that the deck plays out. It's always looking to curve three 1 drops on turns 1 and 2 into an Edric, Spymaster of Trest on turn 3 in order to immediately draw 3 cards. From there you'll want to jam Notorious Throng/Coastal Piracy/Bident of Thassa on turn 4 to double your power/card draw straight into a Time Warp on turn 5. From that point on you're drawing more than enough cards to hit a "Time Walk" every turn (read Notorious Throng's Prowl) in order to close the game out in short order.
The disruptive threats and free permission are there to hinder mass removal since you typically only need to buy a few turns before it becomes obsolete. By the time that people can afford to pay the extra 1 it's already too late.
The deck gets substantially weaker if you sub out Time Warp for Part the Waterveil and your meta fields a lot of mass removal. It's rather inconsequential otherwise and so this an extremely reasonable substitution if yours isn't plagued with sweepers. Alternatively you can cut the Time Warps for cheap permission such as Swan Song and play a slower, more "fair" strategy that still has plenty of game against sweepers. Either that or you can go for a Military Intelligence route that draws so many cards that it shrugs off mass removal altogether.
If you want to run additional cheap permission I recommend Spell Pierce, Swan Song and/or Spiketail Hatchling. Cursecatcher is also reasonable but quite costly at this point and while Flusterstorm is great it's also ludicrously expensive. I generally dislike Daze since this deck actually wants to make its land drops and almost always opt for hard counters instead.
Assuming that you're like me and don't own Force of Wills then Foil is a very powerful alternative. Neither Misdirection nor Commandeer protect you against sweepers (which are your primary concern) but if you're only worried about spot removal then they definitely get the job done as well. Free spells are key since your mana for the first 6 turns is already spoken for.
I've played the deck cutting Edric, Spymaster of Trest for Military Intelligence and it still works but you clearly lose a lot of power. The current variation "goes off" about 75% of the time (and the math supports those figures) and switching over to MI was a noticeable downgrade. That being said fielding MI reduces the cost of the deck by a substantial amount since you get to run 22x island and 0x Edric. That being said Edric is *THE* reason to build and play the deck and it would be a crying shame to omit him.
Would it be worth throwing in several Throne of the God-Pharoah? It seems hard to get there with just 1/1's and that would give you some reach, especially when you're taking extra turns.
Would it be worth throwing in several Throne of the God-Pharoah? It seems hard to get there with just 1/1's and that would give you some reach, especially when you're taking extra turns.
I like it! I'll have to mull this one over fora bit and do some testing.
Would it be worth throwing in several Throne of the God-Pharaoh? It seems hard to get there with just 1/1's and that would give you some reach, especially when you're taking extra turns.
I was using beastmaster ascension for this purpose (and a replacement for time warps) but the throne looks good too; especially since it hits all opponents (even those behind a pillowfort).
I don't own Time Warp's either, I was too late to that party.
Instead I've been running Chasm Skulker. It's not too bad, islandwalk matters in most games, and it's a nice reset post wipe if you sandbag a draw-perm.
I like it! I'll have to mull this one over fora bit and do some testing.
I've tested this card in real play VS others like Beastmaster Ascension, Chasm Skulker etc., on account of me not owning Time Warp.
I like them, it's not a bad alt-win, considering this deck has no plan-B if someone has an effect in play that prohibits attack.
What are your thoughts Prid3?
I've been using Cloud of Faeries in my version of this deck. I like it, but I do see why you're using other options.
Throne underperformed for me. This isn't an aggro deck and it doesn't have any reach so you either do infinite damage or zero damage with very little in between. I realize that it has twenty 1 drops and that might give some people the impression otherwise but you basically cannot win a "normal" game in which you cast small dudes and turn them sideways. As such Throne felt like a straight mulligan each and every time so I quickly reverted back to my old builds.
Fair enough - personally my fave version has been pretty much a list similar to yours with Time Warp swapped with BA.
Enchantment removal isn't as common as creature sweepers, so it's been okay so far, but I'm still wondering what else I could try to give this deck a little more reach. I don't think flexibility is where I can take this deck.
If this was a duel deck approach, I might consider something like Equilibrium, but it's not where I wanna be in MP unless I'm bouncing my own perms. Shame rogue's don't have much in the way of tribal support, this deck has quite a bit of rogue about it!
The Notorious Throngs are pretty critical and are also the explanation for how a handful of 1/1 creatures can kill a multiplayer table. If you start with six 1/1s (total damage = 6) and cast Notorious Throng then you'll put another six 1/1s into play and take an extra turn. With the card draw you're getting from Edric, Spymaster of Trest and/or the other drawing effects the odds are darn good that you've got another Notorious Throng in your hand. So you attack with your army of now twelve 1/1s (total damage = 18) and then cast it. Now you've got another handful of cards and another twelve 1/1s to attack with on your next extra turn--and that's not even counting the additional creatures that you add from just casting those Slither Blades and other miscellaneous creatures you draw in between all of the time walks. You can see how it quickly adds up to more than enough.
The other extra turn spells you can indeed substitute out for cheaper alternatives at the cost of losing some consistency.
I play with Chasm Skulker in my version instead of Foil.
It won't stop a sweeper obviously, but you'll have a fair amount of 1/1's ready to swing following a sweeper, so long as you sandbag an Edric you can go to town. This plan does rely on having Beastmaster ascension, as your chances of chaining extra-turns is considerably less.
A different approach, but so far it's been effective in 4 and 5 player games.
Sure.
Just bear in mind my list is compromised. It's not as strong as Prid3's given I'm lacking Time Warp. My group tends to play a lot of mass removal, counter usually isn't enough to stop multiples in the larger games. So far Skulker has been just okay in offering me a quick reset so long as I sandbag a draw option.
I'm liking Cloud of Faeries in there, if you pick up multiples in your initial grip you can vomit your hand out quick, especially if you get multiple Miscreant's too. This helps get the most out of a draw option or BA on T3, before most wipe's usually appear on T4 or 5.
10x Island
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Yavimaya Coast
Creatures (24)
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Slither Blade
4x Triton Shorestalker
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
2x Military Intelligence
4x Notorious Throng
4x Foil
1x Coastal Piracy
1x Bident of Thassa
2x Time Warp
This is one of my all-time favorites archetypes given how unique that the deck plays out. It's always looking to curve three 1 drops on turns 1 and 2 into an Edric, Spymaster of Trest on turn 3 in order to immediately draw 3 cards. From there you'll want to jam Notorious Throng/Coastal Piracy/Bident of Thassa on turn 4 to double your power/card draw straight into a Time Warp on turn 5. From that point on you're drawing more than enough cards to hit a "Time Walk" every turn (read Notorious Throng's Prowl) in order to close the game out in short order.
The disruptive threats and free permission are there to hinder mass removal since you typically only need to buy a few turns before it becomes obsolete. By the time that people can afford to pay the extra 1 it's already too late.
The deck gets substantially weaker if you sub out Time Warp for Part the Waterveil and your meta fields a lot of mass removal. It's rather inconsequential otherwise and so this an extremely reasonable substitution if yours isn't plagued with sweepers. Alternatively you can cut the Time Warps for cheap permission such as Swan Song and play a slower, more "fair" strategy that still has plenty of game against sweepers. Either that or you can go for a Military Intelligence route that draws so many cards that it shrugs off mass removal altogether.
If you want to run additional cheap permission I recommend Spell Pierce, Swan Song and/or Spiketail Hatchling. Cursecatcher is also reasonable but quite costly at this point and while Flusterstorm is great it's also ludicrously expensive. I generally dislike Daze since this deck actually wants to make its land drops and almost always opt for hard counters instead.
Assuming that you're like me and don't own Force of Wills then Foil is a very powerful alternative. Neither Misdirection nor Commandeer protect you against sweepers (which are your primary concern) but if you're only worried about spot removal then they definitely get the job done as well. Free spells are key since your mana for the first 6 turns is already spoken for.
I've played the deck cutting Edric, Spymaster of Trest for Military Intelligence and it still works but you clearly lose a lot of power. The current variation "goes off" about 75% of the time (and the math supports those figures) and switching over to MI was a noticeable downgrade. That being said fielding MI reduces the cost of the deck by a substantial amount since you get to run 22x island and 0x Edric. That being said Edric is *THE* reason to build and play the deck and it would be a crying shame to omit him.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I would like to see that deck in accion.si someday decide to create a
channel in youtube or twitch so I would observe all his masterpieces
I like it! I'll have to mull this one over fora bit and do some testing.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
I was using beastmaster ascension for this purpose (and a replacement for time warps) but the throne looks good too; especially since it hits all opponents (even those behind a pillowfort).
Instead I've been running Chasm Skulker. It's not too bad, islandwalk matters in most games, and it's a nice reset post wipe if you sandbag a draw-perm.
I've tested this card in real play VS others like Beastmaster Ascension, Chasm Skulker etc., on account of me not owning Time Warp.
I like them, it's not a bad alt-win, considering this deck has no plan-B if someone has an effect in play that prohibits attack.
What are your thoughts Prid3?
I've been using Cloud of Faeries in my version of this deck. I like it, but I do see why you're using other options.
Throne underperformed for me. This isn't an aggro deck and it doesn't have any reach so you either do infinite damage or zero damage with very little in between. I realize that it has twenty 1 drops and that might give some people the impression otherwise but you basically cannot win a "normal" game in which you cast small dudes and turn them sideways. As such Throne felt like a straight mulligan each and every time so I quickly reverted back to my old builds.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Enchantment removal isn't as common as creature sweepers, so it's been okay so far, but I'm still wondering what else I could try to give this deck a little more reach. I don't think flexibility is where I can take this deck.
If this was a duel deck approach, I might consider something like Equilibrium, but it's not where I wanna be in MP unless I'm bouncing my own perms. Shame rogue's don't have much in the way of tribal support, this deck has quite a bit of rogue about it!
The other extra turn spells you can indeed substitute out for cheaper alternatives at the cost of losing some consistency.
Sheer quantity + Time Walks get the job done. Notorious Throng can put a ton of power into play.
It's possible but it makes you more vulnerable to mass removal spells.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
It won't stop a sweeper obviously, but you'll have a fair amount of 1/1's ready to swing following a sweeper, so long as you sandbag an Edric you can go to town. This plan does rely on having Beastmaster ascension, as your chances of chaining extra-turns is considerably less.
A different approach, but so far it's been effective in 4 and 5 player games.
Just bear in mind my list is compromised. It's not as strong as Prid3's given I'm lacking Time Warp. My group tends to play a lot of mass removal, counter usually isn't enough to stop multiples in the larger games. So far Skulker has been just okay in offering me a quick reset so long as I sandbag a draw option.
Creatures (24)
4x Mausoleum Wanderer
4x Cloud of Faeries
4x Triton Shorestalker
4x Faerie Miscreant
4x Judge's Familiar
3x Chasm Skulker
2x Military Intelligence
1x Coastal Piracy
1x Bident of Thassa
4x Notorious Throng
3x Beastmaster Ascension
I'm liking Cloud of Faeries in there, if you pick up multiples in your initial grip you can vomit your hand out quick, especially if you get multiple Miscreant's too. This helps get the most out of a draw option or BA on T3, before most wipe's usually appear on T4 or 5.